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Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,17:28   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,18:14)
This is turning out to be an awesome paper!

 
Quote
Taste Perception in Honey Bees

Maria Gabriela de Brito Sanchez

Université Paul Sabatier, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

2CNRS, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

Abstract

Taste is crucial for honeybees for choosing profitable food sources, resins, water sources, and for nestmate recognition. Peripheral taste detection occurs within cuticular hairs, the chaetic and basiconic sensilla, which host gustatory receptor cells and, usually a mechanoreceptor cell. Gustatory sensilla are mostly located on the distal segment of the antennae, on the mouthparts, and on the tarsi of the forelegs. These sensilla respond with varying sensitivity to sugars, salts, and possibly amino acids, proteins, and water. So far, no responses of receptor cells to bitter substances were found although inhibitory effects of these substances on sucrose receptor cells could be recorded. When bees are free to express avoidance behaviors, they reject highly concentrated bitter and saline solutions. However, such avoidance disappears when bees are immobilized in the laboratory. In this case, they ingest these solutions, even if they suffer afterward a malaise-like state or even die from such ingestion. Central processing of taste occurs mainly in the subesophageal ganglion, but the nature of this processing remains unknown. We suggest that coding tastants in terms of their hedonic value, thus classifying them in terms of their palatability, is a basic strategy that a central processing of taste should achieve for survival.


I am very sure I had no problem figuring out what the last sentence of the Abstract is saying. But seeing how I'm supposed to be lost in junk I just made up then everyone please set me straight, by explaining it all too me, especially how to most simply model that.

what is that you want to model, exactly?

the invidual choices made by some laboratory strains of bees who as a group have somewhat differently parameterized sets of taste preferences, depending on the environment?

what would you expect to learn from this model?

I mean, what could you learn from this thing if that weren't so far beneath you to give a shit about that sort of thing?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,17:35   

Quote (Tom A @ Dec. 17 2012,17:27)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,16:23)
 
Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 17 2012,15:57)
Gary...

YOU said science was not falsification or naturalism... so I asked what is science if not falsifiable, naturalistic or methodical?

You haven't answered that question.

Again, I listed 5 things that would have falsified evolution.  All five have been tested and found to support evolutionary theory, not disprove it.

You seem to misunderstand what falsification means.  I think you means that it is falsified.  It doesn't.  In science terms, it means that some information would falsify the hypothesis if that information is found to be true.

Evolution is certainly falsifiable, the simple fact that is has never been falsified just means that it has a lot of evidential support.  

But I understand that you don't care about how things actually work and pretend that things are the way you wish they are.

Back to my question THAT YOU BROUGHT UP... What is science if not falsifiable, naturalistic, and methodical?  

Name one advancement that is not naturalistic.

I am busy with cognitive science work I do which actually meets the parameters of actual science and follows an actual theory with an actual explanation.

http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content....75.long

No time for philosophy. Sorry..

So...your link implies that you are doing sensory research on bees.

In France.

Under a woman's name.

???

Um, no. Look for the word "hedonic" in the following illustration:



--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 1507
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,17:53   

Is this Gary?: That's just the current theory with evolution crossed out and the words "intelligent cause" written in crayon

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Tom A



Posts: 28
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,18:21   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,17:35)
Quote (Tom A @ Dec. 17 2012,17:27)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,16:23)
   
Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 17 2012,15:57)
Gary...

YOU said science was not falsification or naturalism... so I asked what is science if not falsifiable, naturalistic or methodical?

You haven't answered that question.

Again, I listed 5 things that would have falsified evolution.  All five have been tested and found to support evolutionary theory, not disprove it.

You seem to misunderstand what falsification means.  I think you means that it is falsified.  It doesn't.  In science terms, it means that some information would falsify the hypothesis if that information is found to be true.

Evolution is certainly falsifiable, the simple fact that is has never been falsified just means that it has a lot of evidential support.  

But I understand that you don't care about how things actually work and pretend that things are the way you wish they are.

Back to my question THAT YOU BROUGHT UP... What is science if not falsifiable, naturalistic, and methodical?  

Name one advancement that is not naturalistic.

I am busy with cognitive science work I do which actually meets the parameters of actual science and follows an actual theory with an actual explanation.

http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content....75.long

No time for philosophy. Sorry..

So...your link implies that you are doing sensory research on bees.

In France.

Under a woman's name.

???

Um, no. Look for the word "hedonic" in the following illustration:


So...you used the SAME WORD as someone else used in an abstract of a paper about bee's taste perception.

Whoop-de freakin' do! This means that you are doing "cognitive science work"? AND you get to roll out your meaningless diagram one more time!

You apparently don't have a clue what "hedonic" means. Maybe you could 'splain it to us.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,18:38   

I seriously have better things to do than respond to every nutcase question thrown at me. But it would be fun watching "Texas Teach" beat a senseless answer into you.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,19:20   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,18:38)
I seriously have better things to do than respond to every nutcase question thrown at me. But it would be fun watching "Texas Teach" beat a senseless answer into you.

Hey G,

Since your MO is generally not to answer any questions, what exactly is taking up all your time?

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,19:32   



--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,19:41   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,18:38)
I seriously have better things to do than respond to every nutcase question thrown at me. But it would be fun watching "Texas Teach" beat a senseless answer into you.

But you don't have better things to do that post that you have better things to do?  Really?

Now, my question now is, why don't you stand up for the things you say?  Or (as appears to be more likely) does shit just come out of your mouth and your massive ego requires that you never admit to error?

Let me also add that you came here with your nonsensical notions... we didn't come into your living room and start vomiting on the floor.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,19:45   

Quote (blipey @ Dec. 17 2012,19:20)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,18:38)
I seriously have better things to do than respond to every nutcase question thrown at me. But it would be fun watching "Texas Teach" beat a senseless answer into you.

Hey G,

Since your MO is generally not to answer any questions, what exactly is taking up all your time?

The improved Intelligence Design Lab (with taste sensory in the system) I pages ago explained that I am working on. Duh?



--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,20:08   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,20:45)
Quote (blipey @ Dec. 17 2012,19:20)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,18:38)
I seriously have better things to do than respond to every nutcase question thrown at me. But it would be fun watching "Texas Teach" beat a senseless answer into you.

Hey G,

Since your MO is generally not to answer any questions, what exactly is taking up all your time?

The improved Intelligence Design Lab (with taste sensory in the system) I pages ago explained that I am working on. Duh?


so fucking what?

will this teach us anything about the way insects actually taste things?  if so, how do you know?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,20:23   

And you STILL don't have any damned axes labels.  When are you going to get to a 5th grade level of work here?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,20:28   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Dec. 17 2012,20:08)
so fucking what?

will this teach us anything about the way insects actually taste things?  if so, how do you know?

I know you're slow, so here's a clue:

Quote
Taste Perception in Honey Bees

Maria Gabriela de Brito Sanchez

Université Paul Sabatier, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

2CNRS, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

Abstract

Taste is crucial for honeybees for choosing profitable food sources, resins, water sources, and for nestmate recognition. Peripheral taste detection occurs within cuticular hairs, the chaetic and basiconic sensilla, which host gustatory receptor cells and, usually a mechanoreceptor cell. Gustatory sensilla are mostly located on the distal segment of the antennae, on the mouthparts, and on the tarsi of the forelegs. These sensilla respond with varying sensitivity to sugars, salts, and possibly amino acids, proteins, and water. So far, no responses of receptor cells to bitter substances were found although inhibitory effects of these substances on sucrose receptor cells could be recorded. When bees are free to express avoidance behaviors, they reject highly concentrated bitter and saline solutions. However, such avoidance disappears when bees are immobilized in the laboratory. In this case, they ingest these solutions, even if they suffer afterward a malaise-like state or even die from such ingestion. Central processing of taste occurs mainly in the subesophageal ganglion, but the nature of this processing remains unknown. We suggest that coding tastants in terms of their hedonic value, thus classifying them in terms of their palatability, is a basic strategy that a central processing of taste should achieve for survival.

http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content....75.long

Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,20:53   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,20:28)
Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

I can build a model of something travelling through our solar system at FTL speeds.  Is that scientific or not?

BTW: When are you going to answer the question I had based on the statement you said?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,21:35   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 17 2012,20:53)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,20:28)
Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

I can build a model of something travelling through our solar system at FTL speeds.  Is that scientific or not?

BTW: When are you going to answer the question I had based on the statement you said?

I can make bad odors "evolve" from a toilet bowl. Is that scientific or not?

BTW: I'm not going to answer to what has already been settled.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Tom A



Posts: 28
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,21:46   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,20:28)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Dec. 17 2012,20:08)
so fucking what?

will this teach us anything about the way insects actually taste things?  if so, how do you know?

I know you're slow, so here's a clue:

 
Quote
Taste Perception in Honey Bees

Maria Gabriela de Brito Sanchez

Université Paul Sabatier, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

2CNRS, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

Abstract

Taste is crucial for honeybees for choosing profitable food sources, resins, water sources, and for nestmate recognition. Peripheral taste detection occurs within cuticular hairs, the chaetic and basiconic sensilla, which host gustatory receptor cells and, usually a mechanoreceptor cell. Gustatory sensilla are mostly located on the distal segment of the antennae, on the mouthparts, and on the tarsi of the forelegs. These sensilla respond with varying sensitivity to sugars, salts, and possibly amino acids, proteins, and water. So far, no responses of receptor cells to bitter substances were found although inhibitory effects of these substances on sucrose receptor cells could be recorded. When bees are free to express avoidance behaviors, they reject highly concentrated bitter and saline solutions. However, such avoidance disappears when bees are immobilized in the laboratory. In this case, they ingest these solutions, even if they suffer afterward a malaise-like state or even die from such ingestion. Central processing of taste occurs mainly in the subesophageal ganglion, but the nature of this processing remains unknown. We suggest that coding tastants in terms of their hedonic value, thus classifying them in terms of their palatability, is a basic strategy that a central processing of taste should achieve for survival.

http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content....75.long

Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

You didn't have a damn thing to do with the paper that you keep linking to, did you?

Maybe that is a simple enough question to answer.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,21:52   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,21:35)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 17 2012,20:53)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,20:28)
Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

I can build a model of something travelling through our solar system at FTL speeds.  Is that scientific or not?

BTW: When are you going to answer the question I had based on the statement you said?

I can make bad odors "evolve" from a toilet bowl. Is that scientific or not?

BTW: I'm not going to answer to what has already been settled.

Really?  Maybe you could link to the discussion where it was 'settled' (but I doubt it)?

Because you said something, I questioned it, and you run away from your own statements.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,21:53   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,19:45)
Quote (blipey @ Dec. 17 2012,19:20)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,18:38)
I seriously have better things to do than respond to every nutcase question thrown at me. But it would be fun watching "Texas Teach" beat a senseless answer into you.

Hey G,

Since your MO is generally not to answer any questions, what exactly is taking up all your time?

The improved Intelligence Design Lab (with taste sensory in the system) I pages ago explained that I am working on. Duh?


But you still aren't answering any questions.  No one knows what your Lab is supposed to do.  You don't know what it's supposed to do.  You can't even label your graph.  So, I'm gonna have to say, G, your response to my question remains uninformative.

You could take this time to talk about The Church of the Eye.  That'll be much more interesting.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,22:33   

Quote (Tom A @ Dec. 17 2012,21:46)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,20:28)
   
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Dec. 17 2012,20:08)
so fucking what?

will this teach us anything about the way insects actually taste things?  if so, how do you know?

I know you're slow, so here's a clue:

     
Quote
Taste Perception in Honey Bees

Maria Gabriela de Brito Sanchez

Université Paul Sabatier, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

2CNRS, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

Abstract

Taste is crucial for honeybees for choosing profitable food sources, resins, water sources, and for nestmate recognition. Peripheral taste detection occurs within cuticular hairs, the chaetic and basiconic sensilla, which host gustatory receptor cells and, usually a mechanoreceptor cell. Gustatory sensilla are mostly located on the distal segment of the antennae, on the mouthparts, and on the tarsi of the forelegs. These sensilla respond with varying sensitivity to sugars, salts, and possibly amino acids, proteins, and water. So far, no responses of receptor cells to bitter substances were found although inhibitory effects of these substances on sucrose receptor cells could be recorded. When bees are free to express avoidance behaviors, they reject highly concentrated bitter and saline solutions. However, such avoidance disappears when bees are immobilized in the laboratory. In this case, they ingest these solutions, even if they suffer afterward a malaise-like state or even die from such ingestion. Central processing of taste occurs mainly in the subesophageal ganglion, but the nature of this processing remains unknown. We suggest that coding tastants in terms of their hedonic value, thus classifying them in terms of their palatability, is a basic strategy that a central processing of taste should achieve for survival.

http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content....75.long

Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

You didn't have a damn thing to do with the paper that you keep linking to, did you?

Maybe that is a simple enough question to answer.

I do not write lab research papers, I have to study them, for computer models that I do write, which get published where they are welcomed and needed for educational value.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2012,23:06   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,22:33)
Quote (Tom A @ Dec. 17 2012,21:46)
   
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,20:28)
   
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Dec. 17 2012,20:08)
so fucking what?

will this teach us anything about the way insects actually taste things?  if so, how do you know?

I know you're slow, so here's a clue:

     
Quote
Taste Perception in Honey Bees

Maria Gabriela de Brito Sanchez

Université Paul Sabatier, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

2CNRS, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

Abstract

Taste is crucial for honeybees for choosing profitable food sources, resins, water sources, and for nestmate recognition. Peripheral taste detection occurs within cuticular hairs, the chaetic and basiconic sensilla, which host gustatory receptor cells and, usually a mechanoreceptor cell. Gustatory sensilla are mostly located on the distal segment of the antennae, on the mouthparts, and on the tarsi of the forelegs. These sensilla respond with varying sensitivity to sugars, salts, and possibly amino acids, proteins, and water. So far, no responses of receptor cells to bitter substances were found although inhibitory effects of these substances on sucrose receptor cells could be recorded. When bees are free to express avoidance behaviors, they reject highly concentrated bitter and saline solutions. However, such avoidance disappears when bees are immobilized in the laboratory. In this case, they ingest these solutions, even if they suffer afterward a malaise-like state or even die from such ingestion. Central processing of taste occurs mainly in the subesophageal ganglion, but the nature of this processing remains unknown. We suggest that coding tastants in terms of their hedonic value, thus classifying them in terms of their palatability, is a basic strategy that a central processing of taste should achieve for survival.

http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content....75.long

Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

You didn't have a damn thing to do with the paper that you keep linking to, did you?

Maybe that is a simple enough question to answer.

I do not write lab research papers, I have to study them, for computer models that I do write, which get published where they are welcomed and needed for educational value.

"Dad, can I use wikipedia to help with my homework?"

"No Son, go to planet sourcecode"

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,01:14   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 17 2012,23:06)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,22:33)

I do not write lab research papers, I have to study them, for computer models that I do write, which get published where they are welcomed and needed for educational value.

"Dad, can I use wikipedia to help with my homework?"

"No Son, go to planet sourcecode"

Wikipedia is only for children like you who don't even care how intelligence works. You only need pictures to go with your shrine to Charles Darwin, or at most operational definition for intelligence you copy/pasted from a dictionary definition, for you to feel intellectually fulfilled.

I write for scientists of all ages with a talent for an area of science that has evolutionary biologists you admire panties in a bunch because they are unqualified to even judge it, and can't help prove to everyone what kind of slackers they are by all the excuses for brushing it off that they give.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Woodbine



Posts: 1204
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,02:12   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 18 2012,07:14)
I write for scientists of all ages with a talent for an area of science that has evolutionary biologists you admire panties in a bunch because they are unqualified to even judge it, and can't help prove to everyone what kind of slackers they are by all the excuses for brushing it off that they give.

Gary, there is not a single scientist on Earth who uses your software. For anything.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,06:08   

Quote (Woodbine @ Dec. 18 2012,03:12)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 18 2012,07:14)
I write for scientists of all ages with a talent for an area of science that has evolutionary biologists you admire panties in a bunch because they are unqualified to even judge it, and can't help prove to everyone what kind of slackers they are by all the excuses for brushing it off that they give.

Gary, there is not a single scientist on Earth who uses your software. For anything.



ouch!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,06:09   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,21:28)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Dec. 17 2012,20:08)
so fucking what?

will this teach us anything about the way insects actually taste things?  if so, how do you know?

I know you're slow, so here's a clue:

 
Quote
Taste Perception in Honey Bees

Maria Gabriela de Brito Sanchez

Université Paul Sabatier, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

2CNRS, Centre de Recherches sur la Cognition Animale, 118 route de Narbonne, F-31062 Toulouse Cedex 9, France

Abstract

Taste is crucial for honeybees for choosing profitable food sources, resins, water sources, and for nestmate recognition. Peripheral taste detection occurs within cuticular hairs, the chaetic and basiconic sensilla, which host gustatory receptor cells and, usually a mechanoreceptor cell. Gustatory sensilla are mostly located on the distal segment of the antennae, on the mouthparts, and on the tarsi of the forelegs. These sensilla respond with varying sensitivity to sugars, salts, and possibly amino acids, proteins, and water. So far, no responses of receptor cells to bitter substances were found although inhibitory effects of these substances on sucrose receptor cells could be recorded. When bees are free to express avoidance behaviors, they reject highly concentrated bitter and saline solutions. However, such avoidance disappears when bees are immobilized in the laboratory. In this case, they ingest these solutions, even if they suffer afterward a malaise-like state or even die from such ingestion. Central processing of taste occurs mainly in the subesophageal ganglion, but the nature of this processing remains unknown. We suggest that coding tastants in terms of their hedonic value, thus classifying them in terms of their palatability, is a basic strategy that a central processing of taste should achieve for survival.

http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content....75.long

Now go run along with your friends to look for ways to not allow working models of things not yet understood to be called "scientific".

this response is golden.  you don't give actual fucks about doing science do you?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,07:11   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 18 2012,01:14)
I write for scientists of all ages with a talent ...

No you dont, you dumb fuck!  You write (badly) on an obscure discussion board in a tiny corner of the Intertube to people who are pasting "Kick Me!" stickers on your back.

Get a clue, dude, or at least a Magic 8 Ball.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5237
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,08:18   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 18 2012,07:11)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 18 2012,01:14)
I write for scientists of all ages with a talent ...

No you dont, you dumb fuck!  You write (badly) on an obscure discussion board in a tiny corner of the Intertube to people who are pasting "Kick Me!" stickers on your back.

Get a clue, dude, or at least a Magic 8 Ball.

Actually, I'm the one just here for a short time to paste signs on your backs, so all know why this forum is about to get what it deserves.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,08:33   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 18 2012,09:18)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 18 2012,07:11)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 18 2012,01:14)
I write for scientists of all ages with a talent ...

No you dont, you dumb fuck!  You write (badly) on an obscure discussion board in a tiny corner of the Intertube to people who are pasting "Kick Me!" stickers on your back.

Get a clue, dude, or at least a Magic 8 Ball.

Actually, I'm the one just here for a short time to paste signs on your backs, so all know why this forum is about to get what it deserves.

if you are going to write anything will you please explain to me what it is that you believe you are doing with this paper you are talking about?

bees make choices, right?

you are programming your little thingy to make choices right?

you think if you can get your computer bug to make the same choices that the bees in the lab made....  what?

are you saying that we will have learned anything about bugs actually do, on the basis of your model?

what if i also build a model, and i also get the sorcerer's award and am a wizard like you, and i use completely different inputs and different algorithm yet have completely identical outputs and behaviors.

what then?  has my model told us anything about the world that your's didn't?  is one of them wrong?  is either of them useful?

these are the types of questions that a modeler would think about before fucking about with anything else

these are the types of questions that you have apparently not considered, or glibly and naively masturbated that it was someone else's job to validate your model.

no one will ask these questions of your modeling efforts but you, gary, because no one gives a flying fuck until you convince them that they should.  and all i can tell is that you are trying to convince other people to be ugly and mean to you because you have earned it.

now, why is it that you do that?  hmmm?

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,09:00   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 17 2012,15:51)
You would't be so smug where you were at equal mercy of incompetents who shut you off from all funding then discredited the hell out of your work because they have an issue with your theory.

Very true. But that's the whole point Gary - I am being smug to highlight the difference between my playing by the rules and your ignoring them. The work I do is funded because it's actually science. The stuff you've posted really isn't. It's that simple. I can't imagine why you think you are owed scientific funding for not doing science, but that's what you're indicating here. What can I say? It sucks to be you? No...that's too condescending. Rather, how about I say hey, you could easily get funded if you wanted too Gary. All you have to do is actually listen to the advice given visa vis your lack of an actual theory and...oh, I don't know...come up with a genuine theory. Funny that...

Basically Gary, you're at the mercy of your own incompetence. You could choose to play by the rules of science and actually...you know...do science. That would mean actually understanding what an actual theory in science consists of and then analyzing your model against thatso that you can come to terms with why your model is not a theory. For whatever reason though, you have absolutely no self-awareness of this failing on your part.

Seriously Gary...you have no one to blame on this issue but yourself.

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,10:09   

I made a model of an A10 Warthog with Legos.  Am I doing science.  I really want to be a good scientist so I hope the answer is yes.  How about it, Garbaby?

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But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,10:25   

I think when someone doesn't understand your point you should raise your voice and repeat what you just said verbatim, perhaps tossing a few insults.

For maximum effect you should start with the insults.

For the record I thought I was inviting discussion by asking how this model differs from other learning models and from evolution.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2012,10:29   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 18 2012,10:25)
I thought

Well there's your problem right there...

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
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