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Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,10:05    Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 16 2008,07:58) The thread is approaching 100 posts, and I think one person, DLH, has actually done what Dembski asked and attempted to answer Dembski's question:  What has ID actually predicted. Pathetic.   But good for us! 1. "Darwinism" predicts that intelligent design will be put out to pasture and that the upcoming gaggle of (truly young instead of faux-young) creationists will continue to start from scratch and cite only contemporary "Darwinists" and each other for their crackpot ideas, just as this group at UD does, with little or no citation of Gish, Henry Morris, Muncaster, Buckna, John Klotz, and all the other "dignitaries" of creationism that few people remember because they make no lasting contribution. 2. The names above will only be remembered by the "Darwinists" in their books and papers for the same reason. (Who remembers Immanuel Velikovsky today?) 3. Creationism will continue to contribute zippity-doo-dah to science. 4. Future creationists will blame "global warming denial" on "Darwinists," just as they do today with eugenics. "[Richard] Owen says my book will be forgotten in ten years." -Darwin to J. D. Hooker, 1860. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,11:10    ID proven! PaV:   Quote In post #20, I wrote this:       Quote [I](7) Using the analogy of a computer program, one would expect what I call “subroutines”, or, put another way, various parts of the genome that are used for a variety of purposes in an “on-demand” basis. These “subroutines” would be part of the “regulatory” system of the genome.”[I] I’m happy to report that this prediction has been confirmed. See here. You will find the following where PAV links to:   Quote Dr. Behringer describes the significance of his finding as such: "Darwin suggested that "successive slight modifications" would ultimately result in the evolution of diverse limb morphologies, like a hand, wing, or fin. The genetic change we engineered in mice may be one of those "slight modifications" to evolve a mammalian wing." PaV's logic has advanced to post-scientificism. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,11:13    You beat me to it Sparc! Amazing how unwitting support is the only support ID can gather! -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,12:33    118 comments so far.  No one has answered Dembski's questions.  No one (other than what's her name) has noticed Dembski, the grand poobah of ID, said he has a list of ID predictions that have been confirmed by researchers yet he's not mentioned one of those.  No one seems to be interested in Dembski's list... Maybe they realize Dembski's list is going to be as full of shit as their make believe ID predictions.   I predict thisthread will continue to provide golden tard entertainment for days to come. -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,17:06    Go for the Nobel, Patrick. Quote Short version is that they’ve identified the host proteins required by HIV. Perhaps Behe’s work could be applied to this line of research. How? Quote Several hundred of these genes might make good drug targets, since they can reduce HIV infection without killing the host cell. Blocking 28 of these genes could even prevent the formation of functional viruses (obviously the preferred scenario). HIV is dependent on its host for the functionality of parts of the nuclear pore, RNA transcription machinery, Golgi complex, and controls for proteins on the cell surface. Now first note my previous comment where I quote Behe’s discussion of HIV. As parts of the host genome, these genes do not possess the replication rates nor the selective pressures that allow HIV to rapidly evolve around therapies. The virus could still evolve to be less dependent on these specific genes but, given the fundamental nature of the host proteins required to sustain life, this seems fairly unlikely. In fact, if there is a particular host gene that plays a critical function for HIV I say researchers should examine it to see what sort of modifications would be required for HIV to work around it. If they are beyond Behe’s edge then that should be the primary target for designer drugs. Still…as Behe pointed out in his book (in regards to malaria) this seems to be an indirect way to attacking the problem. Perhaps there is a way to modify the host’s immune system or something else. Using the trench warfare analogy, why not build a defensive fortified wall instead of blowing up a bridge? Yeah, yeah. Great idea! Man your stations, we're taking the entire fleet to protect the port of Calais! What could possibly go wrong? -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Richard Simons Posts: 425 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,17:08    Mapou 131   Quote An example (of a deleterious but unexpressed gene) might be an unexpressed gene that would cause your brain to become disconnected from your spinal cord if it became active. 136 and still going. -------------- All sweeping statements are wrong.

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,17:22    Atom at 137   Quote We could expect an engineer to leave some form of signature or copyright notice on their creation (signing it, if you will.) He then figures out that the signature has the form of the number phi, a.k.a. the golden ratio   Quote With this in mind, I think that Phi (also known as the Divine Ratio) is such a signature mark. It shows up EVERYWHERE in nature, as if nature has a reason to favor this particular ratio over others. It can be seen in the ratio of width to run length in DNA, in the spiral shape of galaxies, in the fibonnacci sequence, in the body proportions of man and animals, and lots of other places. It ties together all of nature with a single unity and is robust enough to still be recognized everywhere, even after eons of environmental change. Glad we've solved that.  What about his social security number? -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,17:29    Oh noes!  Wrong guy: -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Occam's Aftershave Posts: 5287 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,17:43    OK, which one of you is PlatosPlaything? #128   Quote PlatosPlaything 01/16/2008 3:33 pm It’s now two days since Professor Dembski alerted us to the list of predictions he has compiled. I’m beginning to think he never meant to share them with us! I’m enjoying this discussion - and impressed, as ever, by the knowledge people bring here. But many of the predictions are a little wooly, along the lines of “If naturalism is disproved/if God is back in control of things, then the following would ensue.” (As a pagan ID proponent, I have to say that if the gods are back on top, as I believe they are, some of you had better watch your butts - Zeus can get a little itchy with that thunderbolt :-) ). These predictions, while interesting, are not specific consequences of the ID-theory - consequences that might, for instance, immediately redirect the research of lab-scientists. This is what we need to know, and we need to hear it from someone who has worked deeply in the highly technical areas of ID. That person is Dr Dembski. So I don’t think I can be alone in wondering when Prof. Dembski is going to share this enormously important document with the world. Did Einstein hang back about the perihelion of Mercury, or the bending of light around the sun’s disk? No, he was quite up-front about these concrete predictions. The Prof. is being falsely modest if he thinks he’s one bit less of a revolutionary than Einstein! So let’s have those predictions. Peace - Zoe. -------------- "CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way" "All the evidence supports Creation baraminology" "If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic." "Jews and Christians are Muslims." - Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

HelpingHand Posts: 6 Joined: Feb. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,17:47    Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 16 2008,10:05) (Who remembers Immanuel Velikovsky today?) Ted Holden? I would pay good money, and a bottle of scotch, to see a DaveScot/Ted debate.

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,19:54    'nother P-A-R-O-D-Y moment from Dembski.  The IDers don't get it, so he has to chide his sock puppet:   Quote Galapagos Finch: I’m afraid you have plagiarized my parody of ritualistic denunciations by scientific organizations of ID (see here). Unless the Board of Governors of the Brites credits me and my parody as the inspiration for your denunciation of ID, I will need to have my attorney take action. Also, I’m contacting the president of the University of Southern North Dakota at Hoople, where I happen to know you teach, to see that you are summarily removed from your position (remember what happened to Ward Churchill!). You're so funny, Bill! ETA:  The P-word appears twice! -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Hermagoras Posts: 1260 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,20:20    Quote (HelpingHand @ Jan. 16 2008,17:47) Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 16 2008,10:05) (Who remembers Immanuel Velikovsky today?) Ted Holden? I would pay good money, and a bottle of scotch, to see a DaveScot/Ted debate. Ah Ted Holden.  The t.o. Usenet memories come flooding back . . . .  Good times.   But wait -- has anybody seen DT and TH in the same room together?  I'm just asking . . . -------------- "I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,22:24    Can someone please tell me what in the holey feck this thread is all about? I know gloppy is most likely WAD but parodying the parody of a parody is stupid, not funny. Quote The genus Agros Agoraphobias, for example, independently evolved in northeast Africa and on the Manchurian peninsula Hey, Dumbass.  That is not a genus.  You sir are a god damned fool.  Pig ignorant of all that biology is and will be, and proud of it.  I wish I could flunk you from my class. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,22:25    Quote We could expect an engineer to leave some form of signature or copyright notice on their creation (signing it, if you will.) The data are available at GenBank, ENSembl etc. Thus, they would have the opportunity to identify those signature. I would suggest to start with something small like HIV. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,22:30    sparc, perhaps ID predicts that the designer will use four nucleotides, except when it wishes to use a few others, for it's signature. All Science So Far. While trying to determine what in the dirty robes of christ this idiot on UD was talking about, I came across this. From Urban Dictionary (how is that for an authority) Quote 1. agro to be angry or hostile for no reason "that pitbull is fuckin' agro" if only i could be convinced that the douchebag formerly known as Gloppy was aware of this, then I could perhaps grant this crumb of monkey smegma a small dollop of more-or-less original wit. Quote 2. agro (verb) To create hostility in others, causing them to attack you. This is frequently seen in MMOG's (massively-multiplayer online games) when a player draws the attention of one or more hostile NPC's (non-player characters) and is attacked by them. Also seen is the "chain agro", where the hostile NPC who was agroed causes the next nearest NPC to also agro on the player, setting up a chain reaction. "Stay against the left wall to avoid agroing the goblins." "Look at that idiot, he just ran ahead and agroed the whole room." The dripping, pustulent idiocy on UD has caused me to agro the thread.  I KNEW i quit reading that bullshit for a reason. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,22:41    They should rather look at the protein level. Since blast is obviously unknown over at UD I've performed some quick searches for them"GOD" resulted in         Quote No significant similarity found.       "Christ" was not much better   Quote >sp|P18570|VS09_ROTGA  Glycoprotein VP7 precursor (Outer shell glycoprotein) Length=249 Score = 21.4 bits (43),  Expect =   227, Method: Composition-based stats. Identities = 5/6 (83%), Positives = 6/6 (100%), Gaps = 0/6 (0%) Query  1   CHRIST  6                  CHRIS+ Sbjct  187 CHRISS  192 This is the closest one can get. Please try "ALLAH" instead. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2008,22:51    Shit, I have overseen the crystal clear signature of God in the blast search for Christ   Quote + Recognize the signs! -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,04:43    Dembski interviewed at last!  Behe and Gonzalez too! Unfortunately for them, the interview was not for a "national talking heads program", but hey, at least the Pro-ID Spanish website, "Ciencia Alternativa" will talk to them and the IDEA club website will print it.   Waterloo for Darwinism can't be far away now.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,04:49    Somebody may have mentioned this before.  If so, I apologize. What's wrong with this line?   Quote HOME | Publications | People | Presentations | Resources | Auxilery Papers | www.EvoInfo.org Found at http://www.EvoInfo.org/

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,06:18    Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 17 2008,05:49) Somebody may have mentioned this before.  If so, I apologize. What's wrong with this line?   Quote HOME | Publications | People | Presentations | Resources | Auxilery Papers | www.EvoInfo.org Found at http://www.EvoInfo.org/ Shhhhh.... -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,06:34    WAD's Galapagos Finch is funny! He has funny credentials! Quote Cordially, Gloppy Finch, Ph.D. DDS Meanwhile, the pro-ID faction at the Texas State Board of Education: Quote McLeroy was appointed Chair of the State Board of Education by Governor Rick Perry in July of 2007... He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering from Texas A&M University and a Doctor of Dental Science degree from The University of Texas Dental Branch in Houston. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

ERV Posts: 329 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,07:43    Reciprocating Bill: a RAAAAAAAAGING anti-dentite!

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,08:00    Now YOU Too can Destroy UD! Follow the link.  Enter uncommondescent.com into the appropriate area.  Select Dinosaurs, Flood or God or YOUR personal favorite to be the Destroyer of UD.   (Currently there are no options to select Denyse, Bill or DaveScot to be the destroyers of UD, but I am sure that the site owners are working on it. As hard as Bill Denyse and Dave are.) http://www.netdisaster.com/ A BIG thanks to Scienc3e Blogs Dr. Bushwells Chipanzee Refuge! http://scienceblogs.com/bushwel....yed.php -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

hooligans Posts: 114 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,09:42    Censorship! Censorship! All of Shoghi's insightful comments related to frontloading and the development of predictions in ID have done gone and been dissapeared. I was personally offended that his experiment related to spider propagation in a novel environment was considered beneath those at UD. Holy crap, they will allow comments related to forcefields around DNA!! Please!!! I mean come on, a middle school student who gets censored for expressing ID views at UD. This has got to be brought to the attention of the Expelled Producers.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,09:55    Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 15 2008,16:48)   Quote Shoghi: I designed a controlled experiment that would test the hypothesis that organisms are frontloaded with information that allows them to survive in a totally unique environment that could not have possibly been an evolutionary adaptation. ... My procedures (short version): Find spider hatchlings that have been born in the wild outdoors. Place them inside a broken computer (I choose a computer because they haven’t been around long enough for spiders to evolve any adaptations to living with). Next, place the computer on top of a pole outdoors. Wait and observe to see if they can build a web and then successfully reproduce. jerry: A very clever experiment and one that offers prospects for the future. Shoghi, put jerry down. You've had your fun. Shoghi, I told you to put jerry down. Now, jerry's comments about spiders are gone too. No more spiders anywhere! -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,10:08    Quote (hooligans @ Jan. 17 2008,09:42) Censorship! Censorship! All of Shoghi's insightful comments related to frontloading and the development of predictions in ID have done gone and been dissapeared. I was personally offended that his experiment related to spider propagation in a novel environment was considered beneath those at UD. Holy crap, they will allow comments related to forcefields around DNA!! Please!!! I mean come on, a middle school student who gets censored for expressing ID views at UD. This has got to be brought to the attention of the Expelled Producers. Yes they censor, but that's not the worst of it! They have destroyed a crucial piece of evidence for their own cause. This is complicated stuff, so try to stay with me. Earlier on this thread, olegt reported on the mathematical ID discovery that the golden ratio passes the Turing test, the EF test, and lands on a singularity on a plot of CSI vs. All Irrational Numbers. That almost rescued me from the dark side, but what really allowed me to finally see the error of my ways was an easily missed nugget from olegt's post, right at the top, when he told us where to find the comment on UD:   Quote Atom at 137 Someone named Atom posting at UD comment 137. As everyone knows, 137 is a magic number. It is almost exactly one over the fine structure constant (the slight deviation is a result of the fall.) I was hooked! But then---censorship, and now Atom's comment  has dropped to the boring number 133. The universe no longer makes sense. -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,10:09    Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 17 2008,10:55) Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 15 2008,16:48)     Quote Shoghi: I designed a controlled experiment that would test the hypothesis that organisms are frontloaded with information that allows them to survive in a totally unique environment that could not have possibly been an evolutionary adaptation. ... My procedures (short version): Find spider hatchlings that have been born in the wild outdoors. Place them inside a broken computer (I choose a computer because they haven’t been around long enough for spiders to evolve any adaptations to living with). Next, place the computer on top of a pole outdoors. Wait and observe to see if they can build a web and then successfully reproduce. jerry: A very clever experiment and one that offers prospects for the future. Shoghi, put jerry down. You've had your fun. Shoghi, I told you to put jerry down. Now, jerry's comments about spiders are gone too. No more spiders anywhere! A Hidden Obliviation. Must document next free moment. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,10:50    Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 17 2008,10:08) Quote (hooligans @ Jan. 17 2008,09:42) Censorship! Censorship! All of Shoghi's insightful comments related to frontloading and the development of predictions in ID have done gone and been dissapeared. I was personally offended that his experiment related to spider propagation in a novel environment was considered beneath those at UD. Holy crap, they will allow comments related to forcefields around DNA!! Please!!! I mean come on, a middle school student who gets censored for expressing ID views at UD. This has got to be brought to the attention of the Expelled Producers. Yes they censor, but that's not the worst of it! They have destroyed a crucial piece of evidence for their own cause. This is complicated stuff, so try to stay with me. Earlier on this thread, olegt reported on the mathematical ID discovery that the golden ratio passes the Turing test, the EF test, and lands on a singularity on a plot of CSI vs. All Irrational Numbers. That almost rescued me from the dark side, but what really allowed me to finally see the error of my ways was an easily missed nugget from olegt's post, right at the top, when he told us where to find the comment on UD:     Quote Atom at 137 Someone named Atom posting at UD comment 137. As everyone knows, 137 is a magic number. It is almost exactly one over the fine structure constant (the slight deviation is a result of the fall.) I was hooked! But then---censorship, and now Atom's comment  has dropped to the boring number 133. The universe no longer makes sense. That's called atomic decay, David.  Atom lost four marbles. -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Mister DNA Posts: 466 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,11:07    Quote (hooligans @ Jan. 17 2008,09:42) Censorship! Censorship! All of Shoghi's insightful comments related to frontloading and the development of predictions in ID have done gone and been dissapeared. I was personally offended that his experiment related to spider propagation in a novel environment was considered beneath those at UD. Holy crap, they will allow comments related to forcefields around DNA!! Please!!! I mean come on, a middle school student who gets censored for expressing ID views at UD. This has got to be brought to the attention of the Expelled Producers. If you want a copy of the page before shoghi's first comment was deleted, let me know. Alas, my most recent save is at 92 comments, so if shoghi posted more, I don't got 'em. -------------- CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2008,11:27    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Jan. 16 2008,22:24) Can someone please tell me what in the holey feck this thread is all about? I know gloppy is most likely WAD but parodying the parody of a parody is stupid, not funny.         Quote The genus Agros Agoraphobias, for example, independently evolved in northeast Africa and on the Manchurian peninsula Hey, Dumbass.  That is not a genus.  You sir are a god damned fool.  Pig ignorant of all that biology is and will be, and proud of it.  I wish I could flunk you from my class. Not just biology-ignorant. Add grammar and grantsmanship. That idiotic page that WAD put up refers to         Quote Funding institutions (e.g., the National Foundation for Science and the NIH) I guess that would be the NFS; I'll have to check it out to see if they will take my next grant proposal... More ridiculously, these typos         Quote ACCREDITATION: Academic institutions that employ Intelligent Design sympathizers that in any way give Intelligent Design legitimacy (e.g., present it in a favorable light in the science curriculum or even go so far as to set up committees, think-tanks, centers, or institutes to weight (sic) its "merits") must have their accreditation revoked more quickly that (sic) the driver's licence of a blind man on his fifth DUI conviction. are actually repeated and highlighted in a pull-quote on that page. And Dr Dr Finch slips in a freudian way, that might be useful in court, when, in the section called "vetting" he writes   Quote Do they have any friends that support Intelligent Design or regularly attend a Bible believing church? Indeed it is true that there is a high overlap between ID supporters and attendance at a "Bible believing church". But we are supposed to think that ID is not religious. It's all science, y'know. Morons. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

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