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  Topic: The Ray Martinez thread, Where disc. of his shit flows< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2014,14:49   

This is a thread to discuss how the Earth's 100 million years old, and life originated millions of years after the Earths creation. As well as call everyone a Damned evolutionist, according to Martinez. Let the shit flow!

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 2138
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2014,14:56   

Really?  ???

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1788
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2014,15:05   

Who is Ray Martinez?

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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2014,16:00   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Jan. 02 2014,15:05)
Who is Ray Martinez?

Ray Martinez is a notorious crank from t.o. & PT who has the tendency to call everyone a damned evolutionist, save for himself, & trusts way dated work from the seventeenth centuries compared to modern geological work. Read PT or t.o. and you'll find him.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2014,17:16   

His Eureka moment took place many years ago; in a flash he realized that to debunk evolution all he had to do was to tear down the foundation laid by Darwin - that would make verything built on top crumble.

His most prominent tool for that is study of 19th century writings and redefinition of terms. Conventions mean nothing to him; his logic beats anyone else's.

Edited by Quack on Jan. 02 2014,17:16

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2014,07:53   

Don't forget that he claims to believe that species don't change... ever.

What a moron.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2014,12:42   

Martinez has also claimed he is currently writing a book that disproves evolution, once and for all... It's been 8 years, dammit. We're still waiting.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2602
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2014,15:37   

Quote (Arctodus23 @ Jan. 03 2014,10:42)
Martinez has also claimed he is currently writing a book that disproves evolution, once and for all... (snip)

Him too? Won't he have to duke it out with Paul Nelson for bookstore space? I mean, eventually...

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2014,16:23   

Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 03 2014,15:37)
 
Quote (Arctodus23 @ Jan. 03 2014,10:42)
Martinez has also claimed he is currently writing a book that disproves evolution, once and for all... (snip)

Him too? Won't he have to duke it out with Paul Nelson for bookstore space? I mean, eventually...

It startet out as a paper but he eventually realized that was beyond him so it got downgraded to a book. But it seems he has no intention of publishing a book as commonly understood, I believe he intends to make the text freely available on the Internet.

About six months ago he posted a "Preliminary Refutation of Darwinism" at t.o. It was refuted by everybody, including someone using the nym "Roger Shrubber". That was interesting to watch.

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2014,21:12   

Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 03 2014,15:37)
Quote (Arctodus23 @ Jan. 03 2014,10:42)
Martinez has also claimed he is currently writing a book that disproves evolution, once and for all... (snip)

Him too? Won't he have to duke it out with Paul Nelson for bookstore space? I mean, eventually...

He actually might duke it out with Ken Ham, Stephen Meyers, and Rush Limbaugh for book space.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2014,21:24   

Believe it or not, Chuck Norris created the cosmos, not _GOD_.


Evolution doesn't exist, it's only a list of creatures Chuck has allowed to live.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2014,13:14   

Martinez now beats Matt Young with sound logic:

Quote
Because we SEE design in nature, that’s why.

Next: How is pointing out that persons who accept guided “evolution” is actually Creationism so off-topic that the point deserves to be sent to the Wall?

You should own up to your mistakes, Matt.


Martinez shows how Ken Ham is an evolutionist:

Quote


The point of this topic, by Matt Young, says notable Evolutionists should not debate Creationists because Creationists are liars. To debate a Creationist, according to Matt Young, is to grant legitimacy to their lies.

Matt is correct in that one party (Creationists or Evolutionists) are liars.

And we know Ken Ham is not a real Creationist: he accepts the concepts of selection, evolution, and common ancestry to exist in nature. In other words, he accepts conceptual existence of Darwin’s main claims. Sound logic says one cannot be a real Creationist while accepting the main claims of your alleged opponent.


You can find these two stunning refutations of Darwinism at The Bathroom Wall at page 967.


The post Ray's referring to:

Post

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2602
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2014,17:09   

Yeah, he also regurgitated the Paley trope again.

He just Byers with a better command of the language.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2014,05:07   

Complex and Random Snowflakes - Ray Martinez

Ref. thread at PT

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2014,05:37   

Just to let you know, there is the Martinez-English Dictionary.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2014,07:17   

I studied the dictionary (fictionary) and noted his preoccupation with the Great Pyramid and Atlantis.

I read "The Parting of the Sea" by Barbara J. Sivertsen and in addition to the basic story laid out, it also contains an impressive account of the scientific research behind it.

I have also seen a tv documentary covering the same subject and it would be interesting to see how Ray and other fundamentalists will handle the subject.

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2014,12:23   

Wot's an "evolutionist" ?

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2014,17:42   

Quote (Peter Henderson @ Jan. 05 2014,12:23)
Wot's an "evolutionist" ?

Darwinist
        1. a reverse fundy [67]
        2. someone so enraged with God that they make up evidence [68]
        3. a sophisticated moron [69]
        4. a person who can deduce obscure fossil scraps found with no
           birth certificate [70]

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,00:27   

Just Bob rebutts Ray's position:

Quote


   Just Bob said:

       Ray Martinez said:

       As I mentioned in my initial reply… [big snip] I think turnabout is fair play: Identify any designed natural object? Of course you cannot. Therefore your question posed to me is loaded, ad hoc, illegitimate.

   [return big snip.…]

   Paley, and you, both blasphemously limit the abilities and intentions of God. And you have the absolute hubris to, apparently, claim that YOU can detect that which God does not want detected.


Martinez cracks down on Bob:

Quote
Where did you obtain these ideas about God? The Bible? Philosophers? Miley Cyrus?

Where did you obtain the idea that God doesn’t want X detected or known? Paley’s title says the exact opposite: “Natural Theology; or Evidences of the Existence and Attributes of the Deity Colllected from the Appearances of Nature” (1802). Before Darwin became an Evolutionist he said of Paley 1802 that he had been “charmed and convinced by the long line of argumentation.”


This is a Scientific Revolution! Who knows what genius Bullshit he comes out with next.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Henry J



Posts: 4809
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,13:36   

Just as long as it doesn't involve any twerking...

  
Ray Martinez



Posts: 24
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,14:56   

Quote (Arctodus23 @ Jan. 02 2014,14:49)
This is a thread to discuss how the Earth's 100 million years old, and life originated millions of years after the Earths creation. As well as call everyone a Damned evolutionist, according to Martinez. Let the shit flow!

Are we acquainted from some other discussion web site like Talk.Origins? If so, what was your name over there?

  
Ray Martinez



Posts: 24
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:03   

Quote
Ray Martinez is a notorious crank from t.o. & PT


Excellent example of one who is defined by one's enemy.
And I'm relieved to be considered a crank by persons who actually think apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years.

  
Ray Martinez



Posts: 24
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:06   

Quote
Ray Martinez is a notorious crank from t.o. & PT


Excellent example of one who is defined by one's enemy.
And I'm relieved to be considered a crank by persons who actually think apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years.

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:09   

Quote (Ray Martinez @ Jan. 06 2014,15:06)
Quote
Ray Martinez is a notorious crank from t.o. & PT


Excellent example of one who is defined by one's enemy.
And I'm relieved to be considered a crank by persons who actually think apes morphed into men over the course of millions of years.

Considering someone who believes that eels spawning in the Atlantic is proof of Atlantis, you have the permission to be called a crank.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Ray Martinez



Posts: 24
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:18   

Quote (Quack @ Jan. 03 2014,16:23)


About six months ago he posted a "Preliminary Refutation of Darwinism" at t.o. It was refuted by everybody, including someone using the nym "Roger Shrubber". That was interesting to watch.


For the record: I posted a very rough and incomplete draft. The final version will appear in 2-3 months.

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:23   

Quote (Ray Martinez @ Jan. 06 2014,15:18)
Quote (Quack @ Jan. 03 2014,16:23)


About six months ago he posted a "Preliminary Refutation of Darwinism" at t.o. It was refuted by everybody, including someone using the nym "Roger Shrubber". That was interesting to watch.


For the record: I posted a very rough and incomplete draft. The final version will appear in 2-3 months.

Forget the draft, what about the book! It will apparently shake the foundations of biology, medicine, and geology (somewhat)... It's been 8-9 years. You'll have to compete for space with Ken Ham.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Ray Martinez



Posts: 24
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:27   

Quote (Arctodus23 @ Jan. 03 2014,12:42)
Martinez has also claimed he is currently writing a book that disproves evolution, once and for all... It's been 8 years, dammit. We're still waiting.


And I'm still working on it. It took Darwin 20 years to research and write the Origin.
The paper I'm currently working on is actually an important component "ripped out" of the book. It will serve as a forerunner refutation until the larger and more deadly refutation, seen in the book, is finished. And no one has dented the Preliminary refutation. I actually like Roger Shrubber, but he didn't refute a word. Again, the forerunner refutation, which I refer to as the Preliminary refutation, will be finished soon. I look forward to your reaction.

  
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:29   

Quote (Ray Martinez @ Jan. 06 2014,15:27)
Quote (Arctodus23 @ Jan. 03 2014,12:42)
Martinez has also claimed he is currently writing a book that disproves evolution, once and for all... It's been 8 years, dammit. We're still waiting.


And I'm still working on it. It took Darwin 20 years to research and write the Origin.
The paper I'm currently working on is actually an important component "ripped out" of the book. It will serve as a forerunner refutation until the larger and more deadly refutation, seen in the book, is finished. And no one has dented the Preliminary refutation. I actually like Roger Shrubber, but he didn't refute a word. Again, the forerunner refutation, which I refer to as the Preliminary refutation, will be finished soon. I look forward to your reaction.

So, quote mining. Thanks, I'll be looking forward to your blatantly dishonest crap, that you shove out of your ass.

--------------
"At our church’s funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Ray Martinez



Posts: 24
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,15:37   

Quote (Quack @ Jan. 03 2014,16:23)

It startet out as a paper but he eventually realized that was beyond him so it got downgraded to a book. But it seems he has no intention of publishing a book as commonly understood, I believe he intends to make the text freely available on the Internet.


It started out as a paper (yes) then I realized the enormity of the project and upgraded to a book; and yes I have no intention of publishing a book as commonly understood, but will publish the whole text on-line with no paywall. I will then announce publication at Talk.Origins and Pandas and PZ Myers. I will announce publication of the Preliminary refutation at all three as well.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2014,17:02   

scientific paradigms aren't abandoned after refutations. They're replaced by more accurate predictive models.

Newtonism was known to have holes. Nevertheless it was kept until Einstein's model was more accurate.

QED was known to be flawed. It was kept until renormalization improved things.

Simple "refutations' to a useful paradigm accomplish nothing until a more useful, scientifically productive model comes along.

The opposite of scientifically productive.

Edited by stevestory on Jan. 06 2014,18:06

   
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