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olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2013,09:47   

An attempt to comment on Hunter's blog produces this response:
Quote
Comments on this blog are restricted to team members.


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1198
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2013,09:53   

Team?

Away Team?

Can we expect a mass suicide of ID's failed revolutionaries?

  
k.e..



Posts: 3866
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2013,09:53   

ID no improvement on a bronze age bunch of cattle rustling Bedouin foreskin collectors. Look out for more camel races.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1786
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2013,09:56   

Quote (olegt @ Oct. 04 2013,09:47)
An attempt to comment on Hunter's blog produces this response:
   
Quote
Comments on this blog are restricted to team members.

I wonder if the cognitive dissonance finally made Corny snap?

Looks like he took his ball and went home.

ETA:  Maybe he's doing a Dave Hawkins style reboot.  I recall about a year ago Corny got a similar case of the grumpies and locked all comments on the blog for a few months.

--------------
"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2576
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2013,11:57   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 04 2013,07:45)
If you count Behe's Edge, it's three big strikes.

I thought you got four strikes in American baseball....

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1043
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2013,12:30   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Oct. 04 2013,03:54)
   
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Oct. 04 2013,04:57)
One does kind of wonder.  That few, if any, care much about Meyer's tripe seems inadequate to explain Murray's rage that he can't convince anyone with his platitudes and sophistry, KF's projection of his own vile dishonesty about others onto, well, those same others, and Corny's sudden desire to censor, rather than to restate his bilge ad nauseam.

Something going on behind the scenes?  Quiet defections, perhaps?  The people who have left previously, like Darryl (sp?) Falk, have generally not made it very public.  "Doubting Thomases" are very unwelcome, for they haven't previously been devalued as "regular Darwinists" are by these frauds.  I don't know, anything that might force them to face the intellectual bankruptcy of ID might set them off, defections being obvious possibilities, although any threat of intellectual honesty breaking through could set off the especially vapid sorts, with Murray, KF, and Corny being among the more vapid.

Of course it must be annoying to "have all of the answers," without being able to answer any specifics, and to have predictions of the end of "Darwinism" that pass away as easily as all returns of the Messiah do.  Especially if you've convinced yourself that you must be right, without any evidence for the same (except for sermon-like apologetic nonsense that they consider to be "evidence"), never really getting anything right must wear on you.  But still, a trigger seems more likely for the cluster of meltdowns than mere frustration at endless failure would be.

If there is some trigger, though, they're probably trying to keep it as quiet as possible, apart from the hatred and anger that come out in their endearing authoritarian attempts to control where they can't convince with any substance.

Glen Davidson

Some of the pre-publicity for Darwin's Doubt had it as a book that would really give Darwinists something to think about. I think some were rubbing their hands in anticipation. The fact that it has been readily debunked is probably really annoying.

Could be, I don't know.  

I guess I'm so cynical about the dreary old creationist BS about the Cambrian Explosion--which oddly ends up with all of metazoan life being "miraculously" related--that it seems to me that they shouldn't have any great hopes for it.  It's Meyer's old schtick, too, so the idea that somehow it's supposed to be some great revelation to the unwashed seems bizarre.

But I know that they're bizarre, so perhaps their triumphalist hopes still hyped it into some presage of the second coming.  Being ridiculous has not the same effect upon them as it does upon the non-ridiculous, after all.

There is the question of coffers that could play into all of this.  Whether or not  Darwin's Doubt would persuade anyone, the hope might have really been more of stimulating the "faithful" to cough up copious amounts of money, and I doubt their marks been especially enthusiastic about the DI's ability to make their case with Meyer's book.

In the end, I just don't know, but it is fun to watch the meltdowns, whatever the cause.

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2013,05:35   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Oct. 04 2013,07:56)
 I recall about a year ago Corny got a similar case of the grumpies and locked all comments on the blog for a few months.

That was because JoeG decided he was gonna play blog-sheriff and clean up the place (i.e., get rid of all the pesky evos) by going on a profanity-spewing rampage.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2013,05:43   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Oct. 03 2013,20:21)
Corny had a major meltdown on his blog today and has begun banning people and deleting comments.  At least three posts pointing out his quote-mining and misrepresentations were magically disappeared, quite possibly more.

First KF, now Corny.  Is there some sort of brain disease going around the IDiot camp?

What exactly did he delete?

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Seversky



Posts: 441
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2013,15:12   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Oct. 04 2013,09:56)
ETA:  Maybe he's doing a Dave Hawkins style reboot.  I recall about a year ago Corny got a similar case of the grumpies and locked all comments on the blog for a few months.

Yes, he did.  It lasted until he couldn't stand the lack of attention any longer.  My prediction is the same thing will happen this time.  I give it about 3 months tops.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 11 2013,04:11   

http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013....er.html

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 11 2013,08:39   

Quote (The whole truth @ Nov. 11 2013,04:11)
http://americanloons.blogspot.com/2013.......er.html

Needs updating to current website name.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Seversky



Posts: 441
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2013,04:26   

Quote (Seversky @ Oct. 05 2013,15:12)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Oct. 04 2013,09:56)
ETA:  Maybe he's doing a Dave Hawkins style reboot.  I recall about a year ago Corny got a similar case of the grumpies and locked all comments on the blog for a few months.

Yes, he did.  It lasted until he couldn't stand the lack of attention any longer.  My prediction is the same thing will happen this time.  I give it about 3 months tops.

Looks like it was about 2 months this time.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1786
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2013,14:33   

Quote (Seversky @ Dec. 18 2013,04:26)
 
Quote (Seversky @ Oct. 05 2013,15:12)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Oct. 04 2013,09:56)
ETA:  Maybe he's doing a Dave Hawkins style reboot.  I recall about a year ago Corny got a similar case of the grumpies and locked all comments on the blog for a few months.

Yes, he did.  It lasted until he couldn't stand the lack of attention any longer.  My prediction is the same thing will happen this time.  I give it about 3 months tops.

Looks like it was about 2 months this time.

Looks like Corny has decided to go with UD style moderation this time. Apparently a comment by oleg has already been deleted and replaced by this message from Corny:

 
Quote
oleg: Comments should not be rehashes of strawmen that have already been addressed several times.


Cornelius Hunter admits defeat already!  :D

--------------
"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2013,19:04   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 18 2013,14:33)
Quote (Seversky @ Dec. 18 2013,04:26)
 
Quote (Seversky @ Oct. 05 2013,15:12)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Oct. 04 2013,09:56)
ETA:  Maybe he's doing a Dave Hawkins style reboot.  I recall about a year ago Corny got a similar case of the grumpies and locked all comments on the blog for a few months.

Yes, he did.  It lasted until he couldn't stand the lack of attention any longer.  My prediction is the same thing will happen this time.  I give it about 3 months tops.

Looks like it was about 2 months this time.

Looks like Corny has decided to go with UD style moderation this time. Apparently a comment by oleg has already been deleted and replaced by this message from Corny:

 
Quote
oleg: Comments should not be rehashes of strawmen that have already been addressed several times.


Cornelius Hunter admits defeat already!  :D

Poor Corny...He'll never overcome the thylacines are wolves coloring book debacle!

Somebody should remind him of his roots!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1786
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 26 2013,16:31   

LOL!  After all this time Corny Hunter is still managing to come up with new ways to make himself look like a scientifically illiterate boob.  This time it's "Problems With the Canonical Giant-Impact Model of Moon Evolution" disprove evolutionary theory!  Some highlights:

 
Quote
Modern evolutionary theories attempting to explain the Earth-Moon system go back to the late nineteenth century when George Darwin, son of Charles, proposed that the Moon was made of materials ejected from the Earth by tidal instabilities.
...

The many patches added to evolutionary theories result in high complexity and loss of parsimony. One example that Robin Canup recently discussed is the origin of the Earth-Moon system.

Canup’s acknowledgment of the problem is a rare exception to the rule of declaring evolution to be a scientific fact regardless of the failures.


I won't link to the boob's blog since he has started implementing UD style censoring but go look for yourself if you need a good laugh.   The DI and BIOLA must be so proud to have a science scholar of his caliber on their staff.  :D  :D  :D

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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1266
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2014,06:17   

Corny's lying has become rather sloppy - why else would he build a strawman and demolish it with a quote right in the next sentence:
 
Quote
One piece of evidence evolutionists point to is the high similarity between the human and chimpanzee genomes. The two genomes are about 95% the same and evolutionists say this shows how easily the human could have evolved from the chimpanzee. Evolution professor Dennis Venema explains:

 
Quote
For example, humans and our closest relatives, chimpanzees, have genomes that are around 95% identical, and most of the DNA differences are not differences that actually affect our forms. So, small changes accruing over time since we last shared a common ancestor was enough to shape our species since we parted ways – there is no evidence that evolution requires radical changes at the DNA level.


Will his followers notice? Bets are on.

TARD starts here at UD and continues here at his blargh.

Edited by Kattarina98 on Jan. 04 2014,13:20

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2014,07:53   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ Jan. 04 2014,06:17)
Corny's lying has become rather sloppy - why else would he build a strawman and demolish it with a quote right in the next sentence:
   
Quote
One piece of evidence evolutionists point to is the high similarity between the human and chimpanzee genomes. The two genomes are about 95% the same and evolutionists say this shows how easily the human could have evolved from the chimpanzee. Evolution professor Dennis Venema explains:

   
Quote
For example, humans and our closest relatives, chimpanzees, have genomes that are around 95% identical, and most of the DNA differences are not differences that actually affect our forms. So, small changes accruing over time since we last shared a common ancestor was enough to shape our species since we parted ways – there is no evidence that evolution requires radical changes at the DNA level.


Will his followers notice? Bets are on.

TARD starts here at UD and continues here at his blargh.

I really don't think Hunter is very bright.  My hunch is that he doesn't understand the science very well, that's why he thinks  it doesn't make sense.

He probably didn't even notice the error.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1266
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2014,03:05   

Hi Febble, like you I prefer not to assume the worst about persons' motives, and I have a little penchant for Corny's stubbornness. However, he is supposed to be an (ex)scientist:
Quote
Cornelius G. Hunter is a graduate of the University of Illinois where he earned a Ph.D. in Biophysics and Computational Biology.

That's from the Disco Tute.
And The University of Illinois is supposed to be one of the best research universities in the USA. Besides, he has had those discussions in the past and should know better.

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1400
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2014,13:08   

Sad bastard that I am, and thanks to the tireless regulars here, I was tempted to post a comment at Corny's blog. It's been in moderation a while and it wasn't very polite so I don't suppose it will see the light of day. Tant pis! But I did tick the box to be notified of further comments in case it was published and there were responses.

Bob O'H (also at a loose end I guess) adds a much more sensible comment:

       
Quote
"One way I would describe the patterns is thick smoke under intelligent control."

Yes and no. Starling murmurations have been studied, and the current understanding is that they only need to follow their 7 neighbours. So there isn't a single intelligence guiding them, it's lots of small intelligences.

One obvious reason for flying in a group is as a defence against predators (i.e. safety in numbers, partly because there are more eyes to watch out for predators). But there may be more reasons, too, e.g. there may be social interactions. I'm not sure we know.


but I can't see it published on the thread, yet. Email arrived 13.37 and it is now 20.04 CET. How does that work?

ETA never mind (nested comments).

  
KevinB



Posts: 348
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2014,12:40   

I see that our friend Cornelius has posted over at UD under the title "Here’s Darwin’s Solution for Convergent Evolution: Like Two Inventors “Independently Hit on the Very Same Invention”

Is he going to reference his marsupial wolf picture as supporting evidence?

  
Lethean



Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,05:13   

Quote (KevinB @ Mar. 04 2014,12:40)
I see that our friend Cornelius has posted over at UD under the title "Here’s Darwin’s Solution for Convergent Evolution: Like Two Inventors “Independently Hit on the Very Same Invention”

Is he going to reference his marsupial wolf picture as supporting evidence?

I prefer to have my tard filtered by the brave souls who are certainly better equipped to snip and rebut, so I won't be offering UD my clickys. (and thank you for that) Would it be too outlandish to guess that Hunter is denigrating that idea and using it to prop up the designer is reusing His designs aka common design hypothesis?

In any case, I'm reminded of an excellent article I read a few years ago by Malcolm Gladwell concerning, among other things related to invention and discovery, the topic of independent discovery. In it he pulled together information from a number of historians of science and it's a really great read and for what it's worth I highly recommend it. Here's a snippet ~

 
Quote
They found a hundred and forty-eight major scientific discoveries that fit the multiple pattern. Newton and Leibniz both discovered calculus. Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace both discovered evolution. Three mathematicians “invented” decimal fractions. Oxygen was discovered by Joseph Priestley, in Wiltshire, in 1774, and by Carl Wilhelm Scheele, in Uppsala, a year earlier. Color photography was invented at the same time by Charles Cros and by Louis Ducos du Hauron, in France. Logarithms were invented by John Napier and Henry Briggs in Britain, and by Joost Bürgi in Switzerland.  “There were four independent discoveries of sunspots, all in 1611; namely, by Galileo in Italy, Scheiner in Germany, Fabricius in Holland and Harriott in England,” Ogburn and Thomas note, and they continue:

The law of the conservation of energy, so significant in science and philosophy, was formulated four times independently in 1847, by Joule, Thomson, Colding and Helmholz. They had been anticipated by Robert Mayer in 1842. There seem to have been at least six different inventors of the thermometer and no less than nine claimants of the invention of the telescope. Typewriting machines were invented simultaneously in England and in America by several individuals in these countries. The steamboat is claimed as the “exclusive” discovery of Fulton, Jouffroy, Rumsey, Stevens and Symmington.


Full Article

Wikipedia has an article as well, Multiple discovery. I like the section on "Civility," it being a hobby horse term over at UD.

 
Quote
In another classic case of multiple discovery, the two discoverers showed more civility. By June 1858 Charles Darwin had completed over two-thirds of his On the Origin of Species when he received a startling letter from a naturalist, Alfred Russel Wallace, 13 years his junior, with whom he had corresponded. The letter summarized Wallace's theory of natural selection, with conclusions identical to Darwin's own. Darwin turned for advice to his friend Charles Lyell, the foremost geologist of the day. Lyell proposed that Darwin and Wallace prepare a joint communication to the scientific community. Darwin being preoccupied with his mortally ill youngest son, Lyell enlisted Darwin's closest friend, Joseph Hooker, director of Kew Gardens, and together on 1 July 1858 they presented to the Linnean Society a joint paper that brought together Wallace's abstract with extracts from Darwin's earlier, 1844 essay on the subject. The paper was also published that year in the Society's journal. Neither the public reading of the joint paper nor its publication attracted the least interest; but Wallace, "admirably free from envy or jealousy," had been content to remain in Darwin's shadow.


There was some news very recently of two researchers independently coming up with essentially the same test for some disease. Sadly I can't for the life of me recall what it was though.

Of course I'm probably missing Hunter's point anyway. I assume Hunter isn't denying that doesn't happen and will go on how that doesn't square with "blind undirected processes" yadda yadda. This was more about sharing that article by Gladwell I thought the regulars here would find interesting.

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"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."


~Dave Hawkins~

  
JonF



Posts: 632
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,07:24   

Quote
When it's time to railroad, people start railroading.


R.A. Heinlein

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,13:49   

The discussion of parallel inventions and discoveries is interesting, but humans engage in a lot of horizontal meme transfer.

Convergent evolution is "harder."

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2014,13:28   

Did you see the latest?

"Darwin Scholars" an affordable on-line course offered by none other than Corny his own self.

$1600 for the full set!

Holy Shamoly, he's become a televangelist!

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2014,13:41   

Corny stoll his webpage images from somewhere:

http://informatika.stei.itb.ac.id/~rinald....076.pdf

And does Ken ham show up in one of the slides?

http://www.darwinscholars.com/....ars.com

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2014,15:10   

Quote (midwifetoad @ June 03 2014,13:41)
Corny stoll his webpage images from somewhere:

http://informatika.stei.itb.ac.id/~rinald....076.pdf

And does Ken ham show up in one of the slides?

http://www.darwinscholars.com/....ars....ars.com

Ken Ham!  What the hell?

Sure, it's the Ham on Nye debate, but still.  Corny's not even trying.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1786
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2014,19:48   

Quote (Doc Bill @ June 03 2014,13:28)
Did you see the latest?

"Darwin Scholars" an affordable on-line course offered by none other than Corny his own self.

$1600 for the full set!

Holy Shamoly, he's become a televangelist!

It's been obvious for years that Corny was extremely jealous of the ID bigwigs like Dembski, Behe, and Meyer.  They made all the coin while Corny played nursemaid to UD's IDiot second stringers.  

Corny wants a piece of the hot Tard con-man action and he's going to try his best to get it!

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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
REC



Posts: 638
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2014,14:54   

Quote
As usual, the problem cannot simply be explained away as a consequence of methodological problems and evolutionists are left with convergence or extinction as their only explanations.


http://darwins-god.blogspot.com/2014.......ys.html

In Hunter's mind EXTINCTION is contrary to evolutionary biology? Convergence I suppose he could piss on to the applause of only his loyal few, but extinction!?!

He's also missed the point. The paper suggests, as one explanation, that orb-weaving was an ancestral trait lost in some lineages, resulting in the orb-weaving persisting in lineages that are more closely related to those that now lack orb-weaving than other orb-weavers.

Alternatively, the diverse "orb-webs" might not be homologous traits. The authors' point out the silk used, the method of spinning and the use of the web isn't uniform.

Edited by REC on July 18 2014,15:04

  
Henry J



Posts: 4755
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2014,15:24   

So either the common ancestor already had the web thing in some form, or else it had features that were close to having web spinning, and multiple descendant lineages evolved it the rest of the way separately?

  
REC



Posts: 638
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2014,17:25   

Those are the hypotheses that the authors' promise to test. And all spiders use silk (some for webs, other for lairs/dens, egg sacs...), so the idea different lineages purposed it for "webs" isn't really that astounding.

Especially when we're talking about the difference between this:


and these:




I actually have read up on this, from a materials science standpoint. The silk of the true orb spiders is thin and sticky. The guys on the out in this study have wooly, non-adhering silk. They also lack venom, and were already considered distant from the "Araneoidea" orb spiders based on morphology:

http://entomology.si.edu/staffpa....tAl.pdf

Take a look at figure 7 of that paper on spider morphology. To me, it looks like "Orbiculariae" is now not a valid group. There are true Araneoidea, and the outliers in this study were already the far left group, distant from the others, and without another outgroup to root them with the Araneoidea.

Edited by REC on July 18 2014,17:27

  
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