RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (7) < 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 >   
  Topic: The Global Warming Thread, Featuring Rep. Sheila Butt (R-TN)< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
khan



Posts: 1528
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2013,13:56   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 02 2013,13:31)
I had an old physics professor who thought civilization was a new and fairly brief phase before we went back to being subsistence farmers/hunters. I thought it was an amusing quirk.

Now, the more I read about climate change and Peak Oil, the less amusing I find it.

This might be the answer to the fermi paradox--technological civilizations wreck themselves before they get anywhere else.

And civilization shall not rise again as we shall have used up all the easily accessible carbon fuels and metals.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2013,14:42   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 02 2013,13:31)
I had an old physics professor who thought civilization was a new and fairly brief phase before we went back to being subsistence farmers/hunters. I thought it was an amusing quirk.

Now, the more I read about climate change and Peak Oil, the less amusing I find it.

This might be the answer to the fermi paradox--technological civilizations wreck themselves before they get anywhere else.

cf. Derrick Jensen

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2013,15:04   

Quote (khan @ Mar. 02 2013,13:56)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 02 2013,13:31)
I had an old physics professor who thought civilization was a new and fairly brief phase before we went back to being subsistence farmers/hunters. I thought it was an amusing quirk.

Now, the more I read about climate change and Peak Oil, the less amusing I find it.

This might be the answer to the fermi paradox--technological civilizations wreck themselves before they get anywhere else.

And civilization shall not rise again as we shall have used up all the easily accessible carbon fuels and metals.

The reboot is MUCH harder..

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2013,16:36   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 02 2013,13:31)
I had an old physics professor who thought civilization was a new and fairly brief phase before we went back to being subsistence farmers/hunters. I thought it was an amusing quirk.

Now, the more I read about climate change and Peak Oil, the less amusing I find it.

This might be the answer to the fermi paradox--technological civilizations wreck themselves before they get anywhere else.

A depressing thought I've been having frequently myself of late.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2013,18:16   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 02 2013,16:36)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 02 2013,13:31)
I had an old physics professor who thought civilization was a new and fairly brief phase before we went back to being subsistence farmers/hunters. I thought it was an amusing quirk.

Now, the more I read about climate change and Peak Oil, the less amusing I find it.

This might be the answer to the fermi paradox--technological civilizations wreck themselves before they get anywhere else.

A depressing thought I've been having frequently myself of late.

You aren't the only one.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2013,15:54   

atmospheric CO2 went up nearly .7% last year.

We are fuuuuuuucked.

I'm expecting bigtime crop failures, famines, wars, and gas scarcities over the next few decades.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2013,16:08   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 02 2013,15:42)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 02 2013,13:31)
I had an old physics professor who thought civilization was a new and fairly brief phase before we went back to being subsistence farmers/hunters. I thought it was an amusing quirk.

Now, the more I read about climate change and Peak Oil, the less amusing I find it.

This might be the answer to the fermi paradox--technological civilizations wreck themselves before they get anywhere else.

cf. Derrick Jensen

While I agree with Jensen about many of the problems, I don't think his 'going indigenous' is a sensible answer. There are reasons indigenous people the world over got trampled by technologically-advanced shitheads.

I don't know what the answer is, in fact I think human nature might preclude any answer.

kevin drum:
Quote
Climate change is the public policy problem from hell. If you were inventing a problem that would be virtually impossible to solve, you'd give it all the characteristics of climate change: it's largely invisibile, it's slow moving, it's expensive to fix, it requires global coordination, and its effects will be disproportionately borne by poor countries that nobody cares about.


though in the end, of course, the problems will hit us very hard too.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2013,16:20   

I'm doing a lot of climate/energy/water reading right now. Two good reads:

wikipedia: peak oil
the last oil shock

Also, after getting my BA in physics in 2005, I've been a math teacher/tutor for most of the last 7 years, but I'm burned out. Wondering if there are any career opportunities related to this sort of stuff. (if I had to do it over again I'd prob have done geology for career purposes) If anyone has any ideas, lemme know.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2013,16:34   

good climate blog--mother jones's Blue Marble

   
Woodbine



Posts: 1204
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2013,16:42   

Become a DI Fellow.

Just throw up a few blogs whining about Darwin, Hitler et al....$25,000 a year.

We won't tell, promise.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2013,17:07   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2013,17:08)
While I agree with Jensen about many of the problems, I don't think his 'going indigenous' is a sensible answer. There are reasons indigenous people the world over got trampled by technologically-advanced shitheads.

I don't know what the answer is, in fact I think human nature might preclude any answer.

Well, there are still lots of people living in these traditions, yet.

But I agree, they will be exploited, when possible, by people who reject those traditions.

not sure there is one human nature.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2013,18:09   

stevestory:

Quote
Also, after getting my BA in physics in 2005, I've been a math teacher/tutor for most of the last 7 years, but I'm burned out. Wondering if there are any career opportunities related to this sort of stuff.


There's tons of modeling stuff going on.  Agencies are deeply interested in how the hydrology of various watersheds and basins will be impacted by future climate change, how regional weather will change, impacts on ecosystems, etc.

Getting into such work probably involves grad school, but a BA in physics and a background in math is a good foundation for such work.  A friend of mine who's been involved in such modeling work (not the software implementation, but applying models to individual watersheds and their particular geological and hydrological characteristics combined with modeled regional changes in weather patterns) has a MS in hydrology.  For a lot of agency jobs of this nature a MS is sufficient.

Of course Republicans in the US want to cut government in half so maybe looking at an agency career isn't such a great idea ...

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2013,09:51   

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013.......e-83360

This comment by Joe Bastardi (the denialists favorite weatherman) shows more of the convergence of ID and AGW craziness. (As if Joe G posting on WUWT wasn't enough.)

Quote
Joseph Bastardi says:
April 3, 2013 at 3:50 am
It will shift back over the coming decades as the PDO and AMO flips will show you.
its a natural back and forth, because of the way the planet was designed
Eccl 1:9


Everything is a natural cycle, and we have nothing to worry about - King Solomon told us so! (ASSF)

--------------
I知 referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I知 not an evolutionist, I知 a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2013,12:21   

On the debate page of a newspaper here I found the title

"Global cooling followed by ice age."

In a feature article professor of meteorology Horst Malberg warns the German people about several decades of global cooling. Other German climate researchers are in prestigious Die Welt quoted about a possible ice age soon in Europe.

Lennart Bengtsson

Horst Malberg

Looks like the pro and con AGW is here to stay until ...?

Edited by Quack on April 03 2013,12:23

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2013,12:52   

Quote (Quack @ April 03 2013,12:21)
Looks like the pro and con AGW is here to stay until ...?

The heat death of the universe... which is actually very cold... which proves the AGW deniers had it right all along.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2013,17:21   

Quote (Quack @ April 03 2013,13:21)
On the debate page of a newspaper here I found the title

"Global cooling followed by ice age."

In a feature article professor of meteorology Horst Malberg warns the German people about several decades of global cooling. Other German climate researchers are in prestigious Die Welt quoted about a possible ice age soon in Europe.

Lennart Bengtsson

Horst Malberg

Looks like the pro and con AGW is here to stay until ...?

Your Malberg link goes to another Bengtsson article on NoTricksZone.

Malberg seems to be another loon trying to put everything on solar cycles, no peer review, etc. Taken down previously be science bloggers.

Bengtsson's article seems to be from a retired scientist who doesn't understand the communication problems with the public. He seems to accept the underlying reality of GHG driving climate change, but is throwing up his hands over the ferocity of the debate. Sorry, you don't get to choose that.

Edited by dvunkannon on April 03 2013,18:21

--------------
I知 referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I知 not an evolutionist, I知 a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2013,10:21   

Quack and all German reading friends,

http://www.scilogs.de/wblogs....-wetter

A good explanation by a leading scientist of the relation of the warming arctic and cold weather in Europe and North America. The English translation is available on several blogs, including the invaluable
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog....log
Arctic Sea Ice blog

--------------
I知 referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I知 not an evolutionist, I知 a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1266
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2013,10:24   

Thank you very much. That will help me convince all those who have started to doubt in the last weeks.

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2603
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2013,11:25   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2013,13:54)
atmospheric CO2 went up nearly .7% last year.

We are fuuuuuuucked.

I'm expecting bigtime crop failures, famines, wars, and gas scarcities over the next few decades.

How's your flint-knapping skillz?

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2013,13:01   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2013,15:54)
atmospheric CO2 went up nearly .7% last year.

We are fuuuuuuucked.

I'm expecting bigtime crop failures, famines, wars, and gas scarcities over the next few decades.

I'm going to assume that you mean the annual average has increased from 387 to 393 ppm since 2010. Not the the percentage of total gasses increasec by .7 percent.

Oddly, the U.S. seems to have achieved its Kyoto protocol goals recently, and per capita emissions is down.

If the world moved more to natural gas and nukes, much of the problem would be solved. It would certainly buy time -- 50 to 100 years -- for greener technologies to come online.

It's a dark secret that the United States in on track to become energy independent in less than a decade. Not many press releases about natural gas production.

I realize it has the potential for other kinds of pollution, but not planet killers.

Edited by midwifetoad on April 04 2013,13:02

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2603
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2013,15:27   

Quote (midwifetoad @ April 04 2013,11:01)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2013,15:54)
atmospheric CO2 went up nearly .7% last year.

We are fuuuuuuucked.

I'm expecting bigtime crop failures, famines, wars, and gas scarcities over the next few decades.

I'm going to assume that you mean the annual average has increased from 387 to 393 ppm since 2010. Not the the percentage of total gasses increasec by .7 percent.

Oddly, the U.S. seems to have achieved its Kyoto protocol goals recently, and per capita emissions is down.

If the world moved more to natural gas and nukes, much of the problem would be solved. It would certainly buy time -- 50 to 100 years -- for greener technologies to come online.

It's a dark secret that the United States in on track to become energy independent in less than a decade. Not many press releases about natural gas production.

I realize it has the potential for other kinds of pollution, but not planet killers.

From what I've heard recently I'm more afraid of LNG fracking than I am of nukes. Removes millions of tons of water from the cycle, and essentially turns it (mixed with silica sand, antibiotics, concentrated leachants, and suspension media) into plate lubricant.

Like they say, "When there's a solar energy spill, it's just called 'a nice day'".

Still, you can't make plastic out of wind, so it looks like fossil fuels are going be on the menu for a while.

Likewise, as long as there's steel, there will be coal mines.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2013,17:14   

Methane release from natural gas, the CO2 from burning natural gas, the permafrost melting and accelerating things, and methane hydrates either being mined or, due to heat, spontaneouly releasing from the sea floor...

I like nukes, esp pebble bed reactors, but after fukushima it's an impossible sell.

Shitty thing is, we already have the tech to do a massive build-out of solar thermal installations and shut down every coal plant in the country, but money, politics, and ignorance make it impossible.

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2013,17:45   

Quote (stevestory @ April 04 2013,17:14)
Methane release from natural gas, the CO2 from burning natural gas, the permafrost melting and accelerating things, and methane hydrates either being mined or, due to heat, spontaneouly releasing from the sea floor...

I like nukes, esp pebble bed reactors, but after fukushima it's an impossible sell.

Shitty thing is, we already have the tech to do a massive build-out of solar thermal installations and shut down every coal plant in the country, but money, politics, and ignorance make it impossible.

^  This

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2013,10:15   

1600 years of ice in the andes has melted in 25.

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2013,10:40   

I consider myself a political realist rather than an idealist or sentimentalist.

Realism doesn't mean I can't be wrong. It just means I endeavor to see where the jujitsu levers are. One person or a few people cannot change the world by force. Hell, even the Chinese army can't change the way the world works.

But a few people can have and promote ideas for change.

I happen to believe (and can certainly be wrong) that ideas are most forceful when presented as ways of giving people things they want, as opposed to taking away things they have.

It's an interesting thing to me that the material things people want are beginning to arrive in smaller and less material intensive packages. Computers, phones, entertainment systems are all more energy efficient than they were three decades ago.

If this is a trend, I can see some light ahead. It is possible to reduce per capita energy usage without taking stuff away from people.

Maybe.

The question in my mind is how you from here to the next century without world wars. I certainly think there will be wars if rich countries try to stop development in poor countries. And it is the poor countries coming on line that will be the worst carbon emitters.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2013,10:59   

I may be a sentimental realist, but I can't help seeing many reasons for thinking that to solve some of our problems it might be a good idea to start thinking about stabilizing the world's human population at a smaller number of billions than what we have today.

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2013,11:02   

Quote (midwifetoad @ April 05 2013,10:40)
I consider myself a political realist rather than an idealist or sentimentalist.

Realism doesn't mean I can't be wrong. It just means I endeavor to see where the jujitsu levers are. One person or a few people cannot change the world by force. Hell, even the Chinese army can't change the way the world works.

But a few people can have and promote ideas for change.

I happen to believe (and can certainly be wrong) that ideas are most forceful when presented as ways of giving people things they want, as opposed to taking away things they have.

It's an interesting thing to me that the material things people want are beginning to arrive in smaller and less material intensive packages. Computers, phones, entertainment systems are all more energy efficient than they were three decades ago.

If this is a trend, I can see some light ahead. It is possible to reduce per capita energy usage without taking stuff away from people.

Maybe.

The question in my mind is how you from here to the next century without world wars. I certainly think there will be wars if rich countries try to stop development in poor countries. And it is the poor countries coming on line that will be the worst carbon emitters.

Sadly, I think one of the biggest issues coming up isn't electricity, but water rights.

There's a huge fight within the state of Texas as to who has water rights and how can be given access to water.  

We haven't solved the electricity problem, but we've helped (LEDs, solar, wind, etc).  Now to do the same with water (HE washers, personal dehumidifiers?)

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
stevestory



Posts: 10402
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2013,11:42   

Yeah. If i had to do it all over again, i'd have done geology instead of physics. Water and hydrocarbons are going to be the two most important things for the rest of my lifetime.

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2013,12:10   

Quote (Quack @ April 05 2013,10:59)
I may be a sentimental realist, but I can't help seeing many reasons for thinking that to solve some of our problems it might be a good idea to start thinking about stabilizing the world's human population at a smaller number of billions than what we have today.

Several things seem to be necessary to stabilize or reduce population growth. One is economic sufficiency, so that parents do not count on children for support in old age.

The other is rights for women. I thought that concept was settled a few decades ago in industrialized countries, but it is now on the front burner, entangled in the current religious war.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2198
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2013,12:15   

Quote (midwifetoad @ April 04 2013,13:01)
If the world moved more to natural gas and nukes, much of the problem would be solved. It would certainly buy time -- 50 to 100 years -- for greener technologies to come online.

Indeed. Nuke the US, China, and Europe and you'll reduce CO2 emissions considerably.

Wait a moment, could that be North Korea's plan? They're doing it for the climate?

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
  203 replies since April 15 2011,16:21 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (7) < 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]