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Cubist



Posts: 493
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,18:01   

Quote (Quack @ Jan. 30 2014,03:53)
Quote
eberybody can download freely from World Scientific.

Where is the download button?

The World Scientific webpage for the book does not seem to include any way to download the whole thing with one click. However, that webpage does include a list of every chapter in the book, and each such list-item includes a clickable link whose text fits the pattern PDF ([number] KB). Clicking on that link should let you download the PDF for that list-item's section of the book.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,18:21   

Yes, it isn't instant or painless, but probably less mental agony than reading it.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Lethean



Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2014,07:18   

Hello AtBC'ers,

I thought I'd delurk to offer a collated PDF of BINP.

There's no cover page available so I added in the "springerforgot_2013_screenshot.pdf" sparc linked to from EN followed by the "general introduction" from the "about this book" tab on the Springer page. Sadly, my other machine that has Acrobat on it has some booting issues at the moment so I couldn't create chapter tabs.

The archive also contains a copy of the "Synopsis and Limited Commentary" by Sanford. To download the archive go to this page, then scroll down and select your host.

P.S. - I don't claim to have much of a scientific background but I did read chapter one "Biological Information - What is It?" and found Figure 1 pretty amusing. It's a bit Freudian IMHO. Cheers!




--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."


~Dave Hawkins~

  
k.e..



Posts: 3868
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 31 2014,09:35   

Quote (Lethean @ Jan. 31 2014,15:18)
Hello AtBC'ers,

I thought I'd delurk to offer a collated PDF of BINP.

There's no cover page available so I added in the "springerforgot_2013_screenshot.pdf" sparc linked to from EN followed by the "general introduction" from the "about this book" tab on the Springer page. Sadly, my other machine that has Acrobat on it has some booting issues at the moment so I couldn't create chapter tabs.

The archive also contains a copy of the "Synopsis and Limited Commentary" by Sanford. To download the archive go to this page, then scroll down and select your host.

P.S. - I don't claim to have much of a scientific background but I did read chapter one "Biological Information - What is It?" and found Figure 1 pretty amusing. It's a bit Freudian IMHO. Cheers!



Amusing?

I'm guessing the point was Lithuanians didn't invent morse code....Georgians can't speak Hungarian..no, no wait, the Bible was written from Shorthand?

Who do these guys think they are, geniuses?

Really if they want to appeal to the Joes of this world they need get out of their ivory towers and tap into the roots of identity homophobe politics. Why can't Joe get any lesbian action? He only likes cock.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 17 2014,22:57   

I just wonder why Sanford didn't mention his latest research on the age of the patriarchs in BI:NP. In his latest piece Genetic Entropy Recorded in the Bible? on the pages of the fms-foundation which promotes BI:NP he states:
Quote
We do not normally think of the Bible as a source of scientific data. However, the recorded ages of the Patriarchs do in fact constitute real data, which can be analyzed scientifically. Numerous scholars have done this (Holladay and Watt, 2001). We likewise have done this – going a bit further than previous analyses (see table 1). The results are fascinating, and have incredible implications.

One may also ask why they made such a fuss about publishing BI:NP if everything is already laid out in this other book.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2014,00:00   

Quote (Lethean @ Jan. 31 2014,07:18)
Hello AtBC'ers,

I thought I'd delurk to offer a collated PDF of BINP.

There's no cover page available so I added in the "springerforgot_2013_screenshot.pdf" sparc linked to from EN followed by the "general introduction" from the "about this book" tab on the Springer page. Sadly, my other machine that has Acrobat on it has some booting issues at the moment so I couldn't create chapter tabs.

The archive also contains a copy of the "Synopsis and Limited Commentary" by Sanford. To download the archive go to this page, then scroll down and select your host.

P.S. - I don't claim to have much of a scientific background but I did read chapter one "Biological Information - What is It?" and found Figure 1 pretty amusing. It's a bit Freudian IMHO. Cheers!



The Russian translation is botched. It should have been радоваться, rather than радовать.

It is similar to the Polish version, radovat se.

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If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2576
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2014,09:51   

Vis-a-vis the conflation of "information" with "meaning", is this another case of "never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence"?

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Henry J



Posts: 4755
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2014,12:02   

Quote
The results are fascinating, and have incredible implications.

Like implying that Methusalah drowned because he was evil?
:p

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4884
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2014,12:02   

I think incompetent malice remains a distinct possibility.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
KevinB



Posts: 348
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2014,13:47   

Quote (Henry J @ June 18 2014,12:02)
Quote
The results are fascinating, and have incredible implications.

Like implying that Methusalah drowned because he was evil?
:p

Wikipedia says that, depending on the version of the text, he died before the flood.

Mind you, this leads one to ask whether whether the operatives of the springs of the great deep and the floodgates of heaven were champing at the bit waiting for him to pop his clogs, or whether he was humanely euthanised.

  
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2014,04:22   

Even without suckering Springer by selling BI:NP as the proceedings of a Cornell conference rather than a private meeting John Sanford already diserved to be included Encyclopedia of American Loons .

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 2137
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,10:53   

Marks has an item in Human Events online. It has a link to the text of "Biological Information: New Perspectives."

http://humanevents.com/2014....-design

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,11:35   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Aug. 19 2014,10:53)
Marks has an item in Human Events online. It has a link to the text of "Biological Information: New Perspectives."

http://humanevents.com/2014.......-design

In his piece Marks cites what Baltimore said back in 2000 when the draft of the human genome was published:
Quote
Modern biology is a science of information.
Like Dembski, Witt et al. Marks omits the rest of the paragraph and Baltimore's concluding remarks for good reasons:
Quote
The sequencing of the genome is a landmark of progress in specifying information, decoding it into its many coded meanings and learning how it goes wrong in disease. While it is a moment worthy of the attention of every human, we should not mistake progress for a solution. There is yet much hard work to be done.

It will take many decades to fully comprehend the magnificence of the DNA edifice built over four billion years of evolution and held in the nucleus of each cell of the body of each organism on earth.


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
DiEb



Posts: 271
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,13:35   

Quote
Robert J. Marks II: A diverse group of scientists gathered at Cornell University in 2011 to discuss their research into the nature and origins of biological information. The symposium brought together experts in computer science, numerical simulation, thermodynamics, evolutionary theory, whole organism biology, developmental biology, molecular biology, genetics, physics, biophysics, mathematics, and linguistics. The proceedings of this symposium have recently been published for public consumption in a book

Sigh. How immersed have you to be in the Creationistic world-view  not to see that anyone knowing the circumstance of the symposium will regard this intro as carefully designed deception? Why not just say: "a diverse group of scientists gathered in Ithaca in 2011"?

   
JohnW



Posts: 2829
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,15:13   

Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 19 2014,11:35)
Quote
Robert J. Marks II: A diverse group of scientists gathered at Cornell University in 2011 to discuss their research into the nature and origins of biological information. The symposium brought together experts in computer science, numerical simulation, thermodynamics, evolutionary theory, whole organism biology, developmental biology, molecular biology, genetics, physics, biophysics, mathematics, and linguistics. The proceedings of this symposium have recently been published for public consumption in a book

Sigh. How immersed have you to be in the Creationistic world-view  not to see that anyone knowing the circumstance of the symposium will regard this intro as carefully designed deception? Why not just say: "a diverse group of scientists gathered in Ithaca in 2011"?

Because they would never have countenanced renting a room at, say, the Ithaca Elks' Lodge.  If they couldn't rent space at Cornell, they'd have tried at MIT, Yale, Stanford...  Being able to say "we met at [insert prestigious institution here]" was the point of the exercise.  I doubt it's fooling anyone other than their fellow creationists, but they're the ones who buy the T-shirts.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2576
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,22:05   

He also has an interesting concept of "diverse".

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2014,02:16   

Quote (fnxtr @ Aug. 19 2014,22:05)
He also has an interesting concept of "diverse".

This is the very same diversity that led to the Thirty Years' War.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2014,23:15   

I am pretty sure they are creationists but why did somebody chose a picture of Men attend a three-hour Mass at the St. Jacob Syrian Orthodox Antioch Church on Assumption Day for Marks' article?

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1266
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 21 2014,05:19   

Quote (JohnW @ Aug. 19 2014,22:13)
 
Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 19 2014,11:35)
 
Quote
Robert J. Marks II: A diverse group of scientists gathered at Cornell University in 2011 to discuss their research into the nature and origins of biological information. The symposium brought together experts in computer science, numerical simulation, thermodynamics, evolutionary theory, whole organism biology, developmental biology, molecular biology, genetics, physics, biophysics, mathematics, and linguistics. The proceedings of this symposium have recently been published for public consumption in a book

Sigh. How immersed have you to be in the Creationistic world-view  not to see that anyone knowing the circumstance of the symposium will regard this intro as carefully designed deception? Why not just say: "a diverse group of scientists gathered in Ithaca in 2011"?

Because they would never have countenanced renting a room at, say, the Ithaca Elks' Lodge.  If they couldn't rent space at Cornell, they'd have tried at MIT, Yale, Stanford...  Being able to say "we met at [insert prestigious institution here]" was the point of the exercise.  I doubt it's fooling anyone other than their fellow creationists, but they're the ones who buy the T-shirts.

Well, it's fooled Springer.

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
DiEb



Posts: 271
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 21 2014,05:41   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ Aug. 21 2014,11:19)
Quote (JohnW @ Aug. 19 2014,22:13)
 
Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 19 2014,11:35)
   
Quote
Robert J. Marks II: A diverse group of scientists gathered at Cornell University in 2011 to discuss their research into the nature and origins of biological information. The symposium brought together experts in computer science, numerical simulation, thermodynamics, evolutionary theory, whole organism biology, developmental biology, molecular biology, genetics, physics, biophysics, mathematics, and linguistics. The proceedings of this symposium have recently been published for public consumption in a book

Sigh. How immersed have you to be in the Creationistic world-view  not to see that anyone knowing the circumstance of the symposium will regard this intro as carefully designed deception? Why not just say: "a diverse group of scientists gathered in Ithaca in 2011"?

Because they would never have countenanced renting a room at, say, the Ithaca Elks' Lodge.  If they couldn't rent space at Cornell, they'd have tried at MIT, Yale, Stanford...  Being able to say "we met at [insert prestigious institution here]" was the point of the exercise.  I doubt it's fooling anyone other than their fellow creationists, but they're the ones who buy the T-shirts.

Well, it's fooled Springer.

Indeed. I think that their "fellow creationist" are as aware of their typical shenanigans as we who became cynics while interacting with IDers, never trusting anything which is only implied, looking at  each grandiose announcement for the grain of truth which may be hidden in it.

No, such misleading statements are meant for Johnny Public - and for (science) journalists who are to lazy (or inexperienced) to check everything...

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1786
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 21 2014,08:32   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Aug. 19 2014,10:53)
Marks has an item in Human Events online. It has a link to the text of "Biological Information: New Perspectives."

http://humanevents.com/2014.......-design

To add a cherry to the IDiot sundae, GaGa has now shown up there and is shitting up the thread with his usual "intelligence" babble.  :D

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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
k.e..



Posts: 3868
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 21 2014,09:26   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Aug. 21 2014,16:32)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Aug. 19 2014,10:53)
Marks has an item in Human Events online. It has a link to the text of "Biological Information: New Perspectives."

http://humanevents.com/2014.......-design

To add a cherry to the IDiot sundae, GaGa has now shown up there and is shitting up the thread with his usual "intelligence" babble.  :D


howlin' howlers.

"[over at  AtBC where on 400 pages] ....Gaga's brains have been beaten into a fine pink mist"

And accused of being a Liar!

dear o dear

That Shirley must prove intelligence doesn't reside in the brain but in the [forked] tongue.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2014,07:03   

Kinghoffer is celebrating the first anniversary of "Biological Information: New Perspectives". He seems still pissed off because Springer cancelled its publication.
link.

Edited by sparc on Aug. 22 2014,07:08

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2190
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2014,07:41   

Quote (sparc @ Aug. 22 2014,07:03)
Kinghoffer is celebrating the first anniversary of "Biological Information: New Perspectives". He seems still pissed off because Springer cancelled its publication.
link.

I love this paragraph:
Quote
Information defies easy characterization, for Darwinists as for intelligent-design advocates. Yet the former are in denial of the basic enigma, while the latter's investigation fuels their thinking about what could potentially explain its origin, a vital question given that information underlies all of the study of biology:

Reminds me of Justice Potter's methid for IDing pornography.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2014,01:18   

Tom English on Robert Marks' latest complaints about the treatment of BI:NP. It should be noted that Marks uses a title they omitted for good reasons when they had to deal with Springer and neither dared to use when they finally convinced World Scientific to publish the book:
Quote
Biological information: New perspectives from intelligent design


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1977
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2014,08:49   

Jeffrey Shallit points out that he already addressed the "Nonsense from Marks" years before.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Turncoat



Posts: 128
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 24 2014,16:46   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Aug. 22 2014,07:41)
Quote (sparc @ Aug. 22 2014,07:03)
Kinghoffer is celebrating the first anniversary of "Biological Information: New Perspectives". He seems still pissed off because Springer cancelled its publication.
link.

I love this paragraph:
 
Quote
Information defies easy characterization, for Darwinists as for intelligent-design advocates. Yet the former are in denial of the basic enigma, while the latter's investigation fuels their thinking about what could potentially explain its origin, a vital question given that information underlies all of the study of biology:

Reminds me of Justice Potter's methid for IDing pornography.

The obscenity I see is promiscuous use of the "i word." The easiest way to weed out a lot of ID woo is to insist on using the term data whenever appropriate. We all know that data [mass noun] is stored on optical discs. If an audio-visual signal is highly compressed prior to storage on a DVD, you'll have a hard time rejecting the null hypothesis that the pits on the tracks correspond to an i.i.d. uniform process, unless you know the coding system.

I am sure that the EE department at Texas Tech trained Marks, as a doctoral student, to distinguish data from information. (I worked next-door for 8 years, and I know some of his former professors.) But now that he's joined the ID movement, he's placed the socio-political agenda ahead of scholarship. There's no other way to account for the bull... malarkey that he's spewing.

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I never give them hell. I just tell the truth about them, and they think it's hell. Harry S Truman

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 533
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2014,01:17   

Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 19 2014,11:35)
Quote
Robert J. Marks II: A diverse group of scientists gathered at Cornell University in 2011 to discuss their research into the nature and origins of biological information. The symposium brought together experts in computer science, numerical simulation, thermodynamics, evolutionary theory, whole organism biology, developmental biology, molecular biology, genetics, physics, biophysics, mathematics, and linguistics. The proceedings of this symposium have recently been published for public consumption in a book

Sigh. How immersed have you to be in the Creationistic world-view  not to see that anyone knowing the circumstance of the symposium will regard this intro as carefully designed deception? Why not just say: "a diverse group of scientists gathered in Ithaca in 2011"?

So who's their "expert on thermodynamics"?   Sewell?
phbbt.

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The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2190
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2014,06:30   

As sparc has already pointed out, I've been outed an an evil Darwinist censor.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Henry J



Posts: 4755
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2014,20:15   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Aug. 26 2014,05:30)
As sparc has already pointed out, I've been outed an an evil Darwinist censor.

Shame on you!

  
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