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midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 25 2008,18:07    Quote (bfish @ Nov. 25 2008,18:04) Quote (bystander @ Nov. 25 2008,12:26) I don't think that it was coincidental that DrDr D left UD just after the election. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody with a modicum of sense said that the only way to move forward in an Obama administration is to start to look sciency again and nix the culture war stuff. So who was the person with a modicum of sense who tipped off Dembski that he should move on? Not doubt The Designer, who has not been identified. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2009,15:04    A glimpse into Texas classrooms under Mercer's leadership -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

subkumquat Posts: 26 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,17:55    Hopefully things  this this won't be the future in public schools. It's disheartening.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,19:49    Fortunately, you can't just buy a public school in the US like you apparently can do in the UK. The news story is about a private school. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

subkumquat Posts: 26 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,20:05    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 10 2009,19:49) Fortunately, you can't just buy a public school in the US like you apparently can do in the UK. The news story is about a private school. Which is why I noted "public" in my post. I just fear with current state erm...leadership? that we may be heading that way. Or at least throwing millions of dollars at it in law suits.

Spottedwind Posts: 83 Joined: Aug. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,07:04    I didn't get a gift for Wes for his birthday, so the best I can offer is Texas (tentatively) voting out "strengths and weaknesses" of evolution language from their science standards. But like many last minute gifts, it's kind of subpar; new language may be added that will '...require students to evaluate the "sufficiency or insufficiency" of scientific theories about common ancestry of different species.' Maybe I'll just get a sweater next time.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,08:09    I don't guarantee to wear sweater-tents. Texas is in for a bumpy ride, it looks like. But the specific targetting of "common ancestry" should prove to work for us if any cases go to court, since they aren't going to find anybody doubting its "sufficiency" outside of the traditional religious antievolution literature. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Peter Henderson Posts: 298 Joined: Aug. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2009,18:35    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 10 2009,19:49) Fortunately, you can't just buy a public school in the US like you apparently can do in the UK. The news story is about a private school. You really can't do this in the UK either Wesley. Public schools in the US are the same as "State" schools in the UK. A public school in the UK is publicly funded by the parents of the pupils. Examples include Harrow: http://www.harrowschool.org.uk/ and Eton: http://www.etoncollege.com/ The cost of both of these establisments would be out of reach of all but the most wealthy members of UK society (e.g.royalty). NI is somewhat different to the rest of the UK. We still have academic selection (i.e.the so called 11 plus) and although it is supposed to be being replaced, no-one quite knows with what. There is a devisive debate currently being waged as to what will replace it. We also segregation on religious grounds with most pupils from the protestant community attending state schools (public schools in the US). Roman Catholics mainly attend religious schools run by the Roman Catholic church (both grammer and secondary). This is collectively known as the Catholic maintained sector. An example of a public school in NI is Campbell College: http://www.campbellcollege.co.uk/ Nowhere near as posh as Harrow or Eton but still prestigious as far as the province goes. Texas couldn't happen in the UK, even in NI (where YECism is rampant) as all schools are required to follow the national curriculum.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,09:59    I must have dreamed this... Quote SIR PETER VARDY . . . a multi-millionaire car dealer and creationist evangelist, is offering £12m to help fund a network of state schools. Vardy, who has a personal fortune of £75m, has already put £2m into Emmanuel College, the city technology college in Gateshead at the centre of a row over giving scientific credence to the biblical view of how the world was created. A further £2m of the £12m he has set aside has been earmarked to establish a city academy in Middlesbrough, to open in 2003. He has also held talks with Leeds and Newcastle councils to set up further academies. Vardy, who regularly leads the worship at the Bethany Christian Centre, an evangelical church near his home in Tyne and Wear, is keen to help the government in creating city academies — new schools in deprived areas that will have business sponsors. . . -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Peter Henderson Posts: 298 Joined: Aug. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,11:46    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 24 2009,09:59) I must have dreamed this...   Quote SIR PETER VARDY . . . a multi-millionaire car dealer and creationist evangelist, is offering £12m to help fund a network of state schools. Vardy, who has a personal fortune of £75m, has already put £2m into Emmanuel College, the city technology college in Gateshead at the centre of a row over giving scientific credence to the biblical view of how the world was created. A further £2m of the £12m he has set aside has been earmarked to establish a city academy in Middlesbrough, to open in 2003. He has also held talks with Leeds and Newcastle councils to set up further academies. Vardy, who regularly leads the worship at the Bethany Christian Centre, an evangelical church near his home in Tyne and Wear, is keen to help the government in creating city academies — new schools in deprived areas that will have business sponsors. . . As far as I can tell wesley, it never happened. What was proposed was that Northcliffe Comprehensve (the school in question) would close and a "Peter Vardy" one open in it's place. The plan fell through, partly due to opposition from parents: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2005/jan/15/features.politics   Quote Within a couple of days of the news that the council was considering the closure of Northcliffe comprehensive and the opening of another Vardy Academy, Kay Wilkinson and Tracy Morton had amassed a bulging file of information, and resolved to form Cadpag, the Conisbrough and Denaby Parents' Action Group.   Quote On Wednesday October 13, however, Doncaster's mayor served notice that Northcliffe Comprehensive would remain open, and that the Vardy plan was thereby binned The city accademy never happened either. That's somewhat different than making a blase statement implying that anyone can simply walk in and buy a state school in the UK. This just does not happen in this country.

Marion Delgado Posts: 89 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,12:02    Not that I am siding with all you atheists and science fascists, but I have to admit that I've met a few designers and I've never met or even heard of one that didn't want to be identified. What about the possibility that the Designer actually created life on Earth as some sort of bootleg or knock-off? We could be a cheap Chinese replica of the real thing! I never had these depressing-type thoughts until I learned about evolution, and I wonder what professor Davison would think? Does the Designer have to be dead, or is He just keeping a Low Profile?

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,13:08    Quote The plan fell through, partly due to opposition from parents That's rather different from saying that it can't happen. The rules allow for the sort of thing Vardy proposed. It's a contingent outcome that it did not work out that way. The fact remains that someone can purchase a school in the UK that corresponds to what we call a public K-12 school here in the USA. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Badger3k Posts: 861 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,14:35    Quote (Marion Delgado @ Jan. 24 2009,12:02) Not that I am siding with all you atheists and science fascists, but I have to admit that I've met a few designers and I've never met or even heard of one that didn't want to be identified. What about the possibility that the Designer actually created life on Earth as some sort of bootleg or knock-off? We could be a cheap Chinese replica of the real thing! I never had these depressing-type thoughts until I learned about evolution, and I wonder what professor Davison would think? Does the Designer have to be dead, or is He just keeping a Low Profile? You know, that would explain a lot.  Perhaps the original spelling is "Erth" and we're just the cheap knock-off.  Seriously, that line of thought does fit with what we know of the Gnostics and the Demiurge. -------------- "Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

bystander Posts: 301 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2009,14:44    Quote (Badger3k @ Jan. 25 2009,07:35) Quote (Marion Delgado @ Jan. 24 2009,12:02) Not that I am siding with all you atheists and science fascists, but I have to admit that I've met a few designers and I've never met or even heard of one that didn't want to be identified. What about the possibility that the Designer actually created life on Earth as some sort of bootleg or knock-off? We could be a cheap Chinese replica of the real thing! I never had these depressing-type thoughts until I learned about evolution, and I wonder what professor Davison would think? Does the Designer have to be dead, or is He just keeping a Low Profile? You know, that would explain a lot.  Perhaps the original spelling is "Erth" and we're just the cheap knock-off.  Seriously, that line of thought does fit with what we know of the Gnostics and the Demiurge. So we are like the no name brand peas from the supermarket.

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,06:18    Quote The fact remains that someone can purchase a school in the UK that corresponds to what we call a public K-12 school here in the USA. No, it's just a theory.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,09:07    Quote (Alan Fox @ Jan. 25 2009,06:18) Quote The fact remains that someone can purchase a school in the UK that corresponds to what we call a public K-12 school here in the USA. No, it's just a theory. LOL -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Marion Delgado Posts: 89 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,14:48    I would like to call this the theory of Budget Design, unless a literature search shows it's been already theorized/described. As I see it, our designer would be more an imitator or reverse engineer, poorly paid, and working for a concern that depended on mass marketing for its return on investment. And my theory makes a testable prediction, because when we find other life in the universe, it should mostly be flawed (hernias, aging, backaches, etc. etc.) but pointing to something perfectible. Because only a select few planets would have designer life, the rest will be mass-market. As a scientific corollary, when we find perfect life, we will have located Heaven, and we can adjust our Bibles accordingly. I'm not fit to latch professor Davison's sandals, or carry Professor Behe's coat, but I must say I am already feeling the inspiration of something "new under the sun" as Eccliastes puts it. As a bonus my theory is in accordance with the iron laws of economics as we know them.

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2009,07:15    Oops! Wrong thread. Out of practice

csadams Posts: 124 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,21:35    Check out Collapse of a Texas Quote Mine. Jeremy Mohn has put together extensive documentation showing how Texas SBOE chairman Don McLeroy grossly distorted the authors' intents, that McLeroy probably didn't read the sources he'd claimed to have read, and how McLeroy plagiarized a creationist website for some of his erroneous information. (right, I understand this bit of news is on the order of dog bites man . . .) -------------- Stand Up For REAL Science!

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,21:46    I used to be a quote miner. http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2006/06/and-the-winner.html EDIT: Here's where I identified Genesis Park as the number three internet quote mine, using talkorigins quotes, Google, and an Access database. http://blog.darwincentral.org/2006....of-dawn -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2009,14:26    Mississippi disclaimer bill dead Quote Mississippi's House Bill 25, which would have mandated the state board of education to require every textbook that discusses evolution to include a disclaimer describing evolution as "a controversial theory," died in committee on February 3, 2009, according to the state's legislative website. At present, the only state to require a textbook disclaimer about evolution is Alabama, which is currently using a disclaimer adopted in 2005. The proposed Mississippi disclaimer was evidently a hybrid of two previous versions of the Alabama disclaimer: its first paragraph is modeled on the first paragraph of the second version (adopted in 2001), while much of the remainder is modeled on the first version (adopted in 1995). http://ncseweb.org/news....-004276 -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2009,09:27    Quote State Board of Education Chairman Don McLeroy was reappointed to a new, two-year term by Gov. Rick Perry on Friday. McLeroy, a Republican from College Station, has been on the board for nearly a decade and is one of seven members closely aligned with social conservatives. McLeroy, a dentist, was on the losing end of a controversial board vote last month to scrap a longtime state requirement that high school teachers cover so-called "weaknesses" in the theory of evolution in science classes. McLeroy was successful in getting the board to adopt a weaker rule backed by evolution critics that says students must consider the "sufficiency or insufficiency" of Charles Darwin's tenet that living things have common ancestors. Science teacher groups will try to eliminate that requirement in a final board vote on new science curriculum standards in March. http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/archive....ir.html -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2009,11:46    Quote (csadams @ Feb. 04 2009,03:35) Check out Collapse of a Texas Quote Mine. Jeremy Mohn has put together extensive documentation showing how Texas SBOE chairman Don McLeroy grossly distorted the authors' intents, that McLeroy probably didn't read the sources he'd claimed to have read, and how McLeroy plagiarized a creationist website for some of his erroneous information. (right, I understand this bit of news is on the order of dog bites man . . .) On ID the future they've got McLeroy's performance as a podcast. The title?     Quote Texas Board Chair Gives a Science Lesson Last week, the Texas State Board of Education met to consider a draft of their new science standards. At the meeting, the Board’s Chair, Dr. Don McLeroy did a remarkable thing – he gave the rest of the Board a science lesson, which began when McLeroy proposed a new standard regarding evolution. Listen in to this episode of ID the Future as Dr. McLeroy lays out a compelling case for the existence of scientific controversies over evolution. [edited to add:] A science lesson by someone who probably copied some of his quotes from a creationist site, including errors: Quote Incidentally, this citation error appears to have originated in a  book review published in 2004 by someone named Don Moeller. All of the quotes above can also be found within that review, along with the citation error. That means, assuming that the above evidence isn't just an amazing coincidence, Dr. McLeroy actually plagiarized a list of quotes that were transcribed by someone else who was reading some other guy's review of the book that McLeroy claimed to have read. Did you follow all of that? Good. So why does any of this matter? Why should you care about poor scholarship and an apparent lack of academic integrity on the part of the Chairman of the Texas Board of Education? -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2009,07:22    McLeroy has recommended Robert Johnson's book Sowing Atheism: The National Academy of Sciences' Sinister Scheme to Teach Our Children They're Descended from Reptiles, for the Texas Board of Education's reading list. It must be a wonderful book. For General J.C. Christian's review of it, go here; vote it up if the spirit moves you. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2009,16:46    Page problem? -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

AmandaHuginKiss Posts: 150 Joined: Dec. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 18 2009,16:56    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 19 2009,00:22) McLeroy has [URL=http://www.examiner.com/x-4275-DC-Secularism-Examiner~y2009m3d16-Things-are-getting-really-scary-in-Texas-Part-1-B eware-the-evoatheists]recommended Robert Johnson's book[/URL] Sowing Atheism: The National Academy of Sciences' Sinister Scheme to Teach Our Children They're Descended from Reptiles, for the Texas Board of Education's reading list. It must be a wonderful book. For General J.C. Christian's review of it, go here; vote it up if the spirit moves you. Love it. 7 negative reviews and 2 of the three positive reviews are jokes.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2009,08:17    Quote House Bill 4224, introduced in the Texas House of Representatives on March 13, 2009, would, if enacted, require the Texas state board of education to restore the "strengths and weaknesses" language in the Texas state science standards. The current standards for high school biology include a requirement that reads, "The student is expected to analyze, review, and critique scientific explanations, including hypotheses and theories, as to their strengths and weaknesses using scientific evidence and information." As NCSE previously reported, in 2003 the "strengths and weaknesses" language in the standards was selectively applied by members of the board attempting to dilute the treatment of evolution in the biology textbooks then under consideration. When a panel of scientific and educational experts revised the standards, the "strengths and weaknesses" requirement was replaced with "The student is expected to analyze and evaluate scientific explanations using empirical evidence, logical reasoning, and experimental and observational testing." In a close vote on January 23, 2009, the board gave its preliminary approval to a version of the standards without the "strengths and weaknesses" language; a final vote is expected at the board's March 26-27, 2009, meeting. http://ncseweb.org/news/2009/03/weaknesses-by-back-door-texas-004648 -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,09:18    Don Mcelroy's website: http://www.donmcleroy.com/ has all sorts of 'intersting' articles. Check out: http://home.att.net/~dmcler....ign.htm Quote ..Conclusion In conclusion, we have a worldview clash.  We need to chip away at the foundation of their worldview by first, demonstrating their dependence on a naturalistic philosophy and second, by demonstrating the weight of evidence that stands against Darwinism. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,09:47    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 20 2009,09:18) Don Mcelroy's website: http://www.donmcleroy.com/ has all sorts of 'intersting' articles. Check out: http://home.att.net/~dmcler....ign.htm Quote ..Conclusion In conclusion, we have a worldview clash.  We need to chip away at the foundation of their worldview by first, demonstrating their dependence on a naturalistic philosophy and second, by demonstrating the weight of evidence that stands against Darwinism. He's like DaveScot without the hair, Floating Command Center, addiction to Cheesy Poofs or a brain! I'm thinking that perhaps the Baby Jesus should send him an email and point out some of the stupidities and problems with his thinking. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,10:00    Quote (bystander @ Nov. 25 2008,22:26) Quote (midwifetoad @ Nov. 26 2008,06:05) Quote That's going to play so well in court. I'm not an Obama fan, but I do have some hopes that his science advisers will be this side of reality from Deepshit d'Oprah. I know a lot of IDiots were counting on the Supreme Court changing in their favor. Perhaps they should go back to their test tubes, if they have 'em. I don't think that it was coincidental that DrDr D left UD just after the election. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody with a modicum of sense said that the only way to move forward in an Obama administration is to start to look sciency again and nix the culture war stuff. Now that's telling and might explain DaveTards outburst to get himself booted from UD. They'll wander the desert until the next election. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

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