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Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,18:11    bah!  worthless unless someone managed to figure out how to change the dewclaw into an opposable thumb. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,18:19    You're not considering the action you could get if you were single and walking THAT at the beach. Again, clear evidence of the cunning evilutionist programme. (I like the Brit spelling there, it's so much classier) -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,19:44    i was thinking more mundane practicality, like having the pooch grab a beer from the fridge and open it for me. that's likely to impress the ladies too. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,20:43    Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 05 2006,21:02) Actually, I haven't. Skeptic is extremely boring, to me. I like my creationists to be big flaming idiots like AFDave and Cordova and O'Leary. Homer: "I like my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals flaming.” BTW, Steve, that picture isn't showing up for me... -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,01:31    DM said: Quote You're not considering the action you could get if you were single and walking THAT at the beach. Funny those were my exact thoughts. We used to have a Chow Chow exactly like that except he was red/brown with blue/black tongue and all. I got him for my 2 year old daughter because she loved dog's, in fact her first word was 'dog'. A Burmese friend at the time told me they were used as guard dogs by the opium smugglers in what is now Myanmar. Anyway if I was single again it would be the first thing I would buy, girls would go out of their way to quiz us on him. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Chris Hyland Posts: 705 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,02:09    Quote Behold the Panda-Dog! Ha! That a dog and a bear have evolved exactly the same fur colour is perfect proof that mutations are not random!

guthrie Posts: 696 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,02:25    Quote (Chris Hyland @ Sep. 06 2006,07:09) Quote Behold the Panda-Dog! Ha! That a dog and a bear have evolved exactly the same fur colour is perfect proof that mutations are not random! But surely the dog was bred that way, thus showing that intelligence is needed to produce evolution.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,02:49    Just before everyone goes nuts that dog is an adult black Chow Chow (Dog) that has been dyed or bleached. Chengdu dog -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

N.Wells Posts: 1836 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,04:55    BK at http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1561#comments responds to a statement by GilDodgen   Quote   Quote “Do any of them ever ask, What random mutations would it take to genetically rewire a non-musical brain so that it could appreciate and create music, and what are the probabilities that these mutations could have arisen by chance and been fixed in the population in the time available, with the number of generations available in that time frame, and with the number of individuals in the population?” No, because they don’t allow any sort of constraints on the creative power of RM + NS, especially vis a vi teleology. It is omnipotent. It is this denial of constraints to the power of chance that betrays the fact that Darwinism is just naturalism pure and simple. The argument over exaptation versus adaptation (e.g., http://scienceblogs.com/loom....sha.php ) would seem to meet that requirement nicely, but, of course, BK is unaware of it. In case anyone reads GilDodgen's comment as a general condemnation, it is worth noting that biologists do research rates and probabilities of mutations with respect to generation length, population size, and so forth, and they have done theoretical work on the ability of searching mechanisms to find targets in complex landscapes.  However, I have not seen anything like that specifically in regard to musical abilities. From Dodgen,   Quote Is it incomprehensible that the human penchant for music and the arts was programmed into us, just like the machinery of life? Gooood argument, basing a weak analogy on a false assertion (or at the very best, an undemonstrated one).

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,05:36    Pffft, GilDodg'em is an idiot. I'm just pissed his intellectual cousin in China is dyeing/bleaching that doggie. I wanted one of those **Note to any animal-rights-y people taking umbrage: I am being facetious: the only animals I "own" are the parasites and symbiotes that inhabit me -- although I've taken to naming them. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,05:51    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 06 2006,10:36) **Note to any animal-rights-y people taking umbrage: I am being facetious: the only animals I "own" are the parasites and symbiotes that inhabit me -- although I've taken to naming them. They're called 'flora'.   Tho I rather like the turn of phrase I once saw on a tabloid cover: THE ZOO ON YOU! -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,06:09    Quote They're called 'flora'. Patty the Platyhelminth just told me: "Flora is a silly name." She's sending her cousins over to visit you, Arden -- if that IS your real name...FRED MERTZ. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,06:16    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 06 2006,11:09)   Quote They're called 'flora'. Patty the Platyhelminth just told me: "Flora is a silly name." She's sending her cousins over to visit you, Arden -- if that IS your real name...FRED MERTZ. Fred Mertz: HAWT! -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,08:50    Quote I wouldn’t give you a plugged nickel for all the music and art in the world. Comment by DaveScot — September 6, 2006 @ 7:57 am -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,09:29    Well that just takes the f&#$ing cake right there.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,09:50    Quote (keiths @ Sep. 06 2006,13:50) Quote I wouldn’t give you a plugged nickel for all the music and art in the world. Comment by DaveScot — September 6, 2006 @ 7:57 am Neither was business acumen, apparently Mona Lisa and the hope diamond for a nickel? I’ll take two, please. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Steverino Posts: 411 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,09:57    Then how he does explain the "Dogs Shooting Pool" on the wall of his living room??? -------------- - Born right the first time. - Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers. - It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,10:01    Quote (keiths @ Sep. 06 2006,13:50) Quote I wouldn’t give you a plugged nickel for all the music and art in the world. Comment by DaveScot — September 6, 2006 @ 7:57 am That reveals a lot, right there. Now DROP and give me TWENTY, maggot!-dt -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,10:16    http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1561#comment-58869 Quote Music is a near-universal phenomenon, far broader than the human species. Birds do it. Whales do it. Frogs do it. Crickets do it. The more, however, I look at the question of beauty in all of its variants, the more I see this as a real challenge to NDE. Comment by bFast — September 6, 2006 @ 11:33 am Okay, we're beat. *packs bags and goes home* anthrophomorphotard -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,10:55    Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 06 2006,15:16) http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1561#comment-58869   Quote Music is a near-universal phenomenon, far broader than the human species. Birds do it. Whales do it. Frogs do it. Crickets do it. The more, however, I look at the question of beauty in all of its variants, the more I see this as a real challenge to NDE. Comment by bFast — September 6, 2006 @ 11:33 am Okay, we're beat. *packs bags and goes home* anthrophomorphotard I'm also told that trees are musicians. When the wind blows. Now how will the ToE explain that?! Duh.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,11:12    Quote Now DROP and give me TWENTY, maggot!-dt I rarely bother to think about DaveTardI (other than to make fun of his patently stupid pronouncements) because his knowledge of science -- while extending to Sci. American -- is scarcely adequate for any real debates...anyway, mentioning the Marine angle made me think of something: In all the self-inflating posts that I've read of his at Uncommonly Dense and elsewhere, I've never seen him mention any combat experience, which is the sine qua non of the truly macho Marine. I wonder...compensating, maybe? What do you think, DaveSpringtard? -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,11:23    Evolutionary Psychologist Allen MacNeill might object to treating IDers rudely (and would you really like to be in a classroom with Lenny Flank, Popper's Ghost, etc?), but of course the IDers don't return the favor: Quote September 6, 2006 Evolutionary Psychology’s Continuing and Transparent Silliness Denyse just alerted me to this latest gem of wisdom in the evolutionary psychology arena, concerning the origin of musical ability and appreciation: http://www.boston.com/news....monious The one thing that always amazes me is that Darwinists concentrate on the survival value of a certain trait (why natural selection would select that trait), while assuming that the trait can be had on the cheap and for the asking. Do any of them ever ask, What random mutations would it take to genetically rewire a non-musical brain so that it could appreciate and create music, and what are the probabilities that these mutations could have arisen by chance and been fixed in the population in the time available, with the number of generations available in that time frame, and with the number of individuals in the population? These quintessential questions are never asked because the answer is obvious: There is no chance that this could have happened, and most people with a modicum of common sense figure this out. One needs a Ph.D. in evolutionary theory to not figure this out. Is it incomprehensible that the human penchant for music and the arts was programmed into us, just like the machinery of life? Filed under: Intelligent Design — GilDodgen @ 1:50 am Comments (10)

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,11:31    Quote Is it incomprehensible that the human penchant for music and the arts was programmed into us Gil does a fantastic job of showing how his support for ID is entirely based on a personal level of incredulity. thumbs up, Gil! you do great work shooting your side in the foot every time you poot forth. We should make awards for these idiots for the favors they do us in revealing their utter ignorance. Hey Gil: i saw the most remarkable sunset the other day; it was so magnificent it couldn't have POSSIBLY been due to interactions of light and chemistry. ...and the next day the sky was soooo blue... Must've been intelligently designed. *snicker* -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,12:04    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 06 2006,16:12) Quote Now DROP and give me TWENTY, maggot!-dt I rarely bother to think about DaveTardI (other than to make fun of his patently stupid pronouncements) because his knowledge of science -- while extending to Sci. American -- is scarcely adequate for any real debates...anyway, mentioning the Marine angle made me think of something: In all the self-inflating posts that I've read of his at Uncommonly Dense and elsewhere, I've never seen him mention any combat experience, which is the sine qua non of the truly macho Marine. I wonder...compensating, maybe? What do you think, DaveSpringtard? Well, I believe our Dave is 49 or 50, which would put him being born around 1956~1957. That means he would have been prime Marine age around 1975-1976 or thereabouts. Vietnam was over by then, and I don't think Marines would have been sent anywhere again til Reagan's invasion of Grenada in 1983, by which time DT would have been 27, roughly -- past prime jarhead combat age. So DT was probably in the Marines in peacetime, so he very likely never saw combat. I can't believe he wouldn't have mentioned it by now if he had. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,12:35    Quote (Ichthyic @ Sep. 06 2006,16:31) .....every time you poot forth. POOTER! -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,13:36    [quote=stevestory,Sep. 05 2006,20:46][/quote] "I tutored people for years. I've never seen anyone have problems, like PaV has problems with the word 'random'." Here's a clue as to why: "I haven’t read the entire article as yet, but I will shortly. I look forward to your reactions and thoughts." From: http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1557

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,13:46    Random, as in random mutation, really doesn't mean much. It means that they're unpredictable in a certain general statistical way, to first order. They're not entirely random, some mutations are more likely than others due to a variety of effects. Really it just means, you know, any of these gene doodads can change and there's no way to know what the specific change is beforehand, more or less. But these IDiots invest it with all this philosophical technical crap, and blather on about quantum indeterminacy and proximate causes and blah blah blah. They are assisted somewhat by a few evolutionist idiots who act like the randomness rules out any hidden influence by a supernatural power. Of course it doesn't do that. The hidden influence by a supernatural power is just parsimoniously snipped from science wherever it is found.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,13:52    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 06 2006,17:04) So DT was probably in the Marines in peacetime, so he very likely never saw combat. I can't believe he wouldn't have mentioned it by now if he had. I've long noticed that those who are the most gung-ho about going to war with someone or other, are those who have never been in combat or seen it.  Those of us who HAVE seen it, are in no hurry to have it inflicted on anyone else. I also note in passing that less than ten percent of those in the military, even in time of war, actually hear a shot fired in anger.  The vast majority of military personnel, whether Army, Navy, Air Force or Marines, are clerks, supply managers, communications people, maintenance mechanics, computer techies, etc etc etc.  In essence they do nothing different than a civilian does -- they just wear a military uniform while doing it.  Fewer than 1 in 10 people in the military are actual combat troops.  They refer to the other 9 out of 10 as REMF's (Rear-Echelon Mother F***ers). It would not surprise me in the slightest to hear that, even if he served at the height of Vietnam, DaveTard's "military career" consisted solely of keeping track of how many toilet paper rolls the battalion HQ needed per month. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

C.J.O'Brien Posts: 395 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,14:01    Jeebus, but that thread is stupid. I mean, they could play that game every single day over there. "Let's find a paper in genetics that none of us understand and then let's all talk stupid about it and correct each others' stupidity and then let's listen to SpringerBot tell us about his magic mushroom farm in his basement." Rod and Todd: "Yaaaayyyyyy!!!" -------------- The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand. --Joe G

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,14:19    Dense O'Leary, on her own blog: Quote Wednesday, August 23, 2006 White House press secretary on intelligent design controversy Tony Snow, White House press secretary (April 2006), offered this opinion re the intelligent design controversy: Quote Scientific inquiry and ID provide useful angles of approach to ultimate questions. Here's how to make both sides happy: Let science teachers tell kids that science is a matter of inspired guesswork, not of invincible decree. Eventually, new theories will arise to wipe away weaknesses and inconsistencies in today's scientific orthodoxy. Also, let students know that a sizeable number of scientists believe in a Designer, since science involves a quest to discover and decode universal design. (A sizeable number of scientists also don't believe in G-d.) Meanwhile, issue similar warnings against silly abuses of holy writ, since scripture has little or nothing to say about matters of "hard" science. I like Snow's approach insofar as he intuits that the controversy originated with the attempt to force Darwinism as the creation story of materialism on the school system. But, like so many media types, he does not appear able to grapple with the possibility that Darwinism may actually be an incorrect theory of origins. He thinks he is flattering the ID types by allowing that they are on "God's" side. But ID types who deserve any respect want to know what is factually true. And if they are religious, that is the only way they can serve God in this matter. posted by Denyse O'Leary @ 1:11 PM   0 comments "But, like so many media types, he does not appear able to grapple with the possibility that Darwinism may actually be an incorrect theory of origins. " Uh, maybe because Tony Snow is not a complete idiot? Quote Snow was born in Berea, Kentucky, and raised in Cincinnati, Ohio. His father, Jim, taught social studies and was an assistant principal at Princeton High School in suburban Cincinnati, where his son graduated. His mother was an inner-city nurse who died of colon cancer in 1973 when Tony was 17 years old. After graduating from Princeton High School in Sharonville, Ohio, Snow obtained his Bachelor of Arts in philosophy from Davidson College in 1977. He taught physics and geography in Kenya, and was a substitute teacher in Cincinnati, teaching everything from calculus to art. He also worked as an advocate for the mentally ill and developmentally disabled in North Carolina. He is an avid musician. He plays the flute, saxophone and guitar, and belongs to a cover band, Beats Workin', which features fellow Washington-area professionals. (from Wikipedia)

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