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  Topic: Texas school board sued over Bible classes< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Jason Spaceman



Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,04:09   

Quote
DALLAS, Texas (AP) -- Two advocacy groups filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday against a West Texas school district on behalf of eight parents who say a Bible course violates their religious liberty.

The American Civil Liberties Union and People for the American Way Foundation sued the Ector County Independent School District, asking the Odessa school system to stop teaching the course.

"Religion is very important in my family and we are very involved in our religious community. But the public schools are no place for religious indoctrination that promotes certain beliefs that not all the kids in the school share," Doug Hildebrand, a Presbyterian deacon who is among the plaintiffs, said in a written statement released by the ACLU.

The Ector school board approved the high school elective in 2005. It teaches the King James version of the sacred text using material produced by the Greensboro, North Carolina-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools, and uses the Bible as the students' textbook.

Backers of the National Council include David Barton, who operates a Web site that promotes helping local officials develop policies that reflect Biblical views and encourages Christian involvement in civic affairs. Other supporters of the program include the conservative American Family Association, Eagle Forum and Plano-based Liberty Legal Institute.


Read it here.

Read the ACLU's complaint here.

According to the ACLU's complaint this course teaches such unbiased, objective "facts" like, telling kids that the Catholic belief in transubstantiation is "warped", and based on "mysticism"; that the creation, Noah's flood, etc. were real historical events.  It's also got a hefty dose of David Barton's historical revisionism.

Chuck Norris is a big promoter of the NCBCPS, in fact he and his wife are on the NCBCPS Board of Directors.  Errr, good luck defending this turkey in court Chuck.

   
Chris Hyland



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,04:50   

I think students should definately have comparative religious education classes, as they do in the UK, but I would be quite concerned if my child had to take something called 'Bible Study'.

  
Richardthughes



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,09:32   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ May 17 2007,04:50)
I think students should definately have comparative religious education classes, as they do in the UK, but I would be quite concerned if my child had to take something called 'Bible Study'.

Agreed. Probably want to touch on atheism and agnosticism as well.

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phonon



Posts: 396
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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,10:09   

Well, if you have Bible Study at school in Hong Kong you might get in trouble for reading "indecent" material.
http://news.yahoo.com/s....YDtiBIF

 
Quote
More than 800 Hong Kong residents have called on authorities to reclassify the Bible as "indecent" due to its sexual and violent content, following an uproar over a sex column in a university student journal.

A spokesperson for Hong Kong's Television and Entertainment Licensing authority (TELA) said it had received 838 complaints about the Bible by noon Wednesday.

The complaints follow the launch of an anonymous Web site -- www.truthbible.net -- which said the holy book "made one tremble" given its sexual and violent content, including rape and incest.


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improvius



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,10:59   

It looks like they've tried pretty hard to remove anything that overtly looks like endorsement from the NCBCPS website.  But they missed a couple of things:

"And I look to the day when, after you have returned the Bible to the schools, we will also see prayer restored to its proper place within the educational system."

And it looks like they may have taken down the link to this page ("...first step to get God back into your public school"), but it's still part of their site.

Hopefully the ACLU is keping cached versions of this website.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,11:02   

Quote (CNN via Jason Spaceman @ May 17 2007,04:09)
...the Greensboro, North Carolina-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools...

Um... by it's very name, this organization exists for the purpose of violating the Constitution.  

I find that interesting.  I wonder how they'd feel and what they'd say about an organization called The National Council on Repression of Christianity...

On second thought, no I don't.

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improvius



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,11:07   

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 17 2007,12:02)
Quote (CNN via Jason Spaceman @ May 17 2007,04:09)
...the Greensboro, North Carolina-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools...

Um... by it's very name, this organization exists for the purpose of violating the Constitution.  

I find that interesting.  I wonder how they'd feel and what they'd say about an organization called The National Council on Repression of Christianity...

On second thought, no I don't.

No, for the most part they are pretty careful about that.  "Bible Curiculum" is not, in and of itself, unconstitutional.  It only becomes so when it turns into endorsement.  The NCBCPS is trying to walk a very thin line.  And in my unofficial (IANAL) opinion, the two pages I linked above cross that line.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,11:25   

Quote (improvius @ May 17 2007,10:59)
It looks like they've tried pretty hard to remove anything that overtly looks like endorsement from the NCBCPS website.  But they missed a couple of things:

"And I look to the day when, after you have returned the Bible to the schools, we will also see prayer restored to its proper place within the educational system."

And it looks like they may have taken down the link to this page ("...first step to get God back into your public school"), but it's still part of their site.

Hopefully the ACLU is keping cached versions of this website.

oh, I don't know about the need for that :)

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.bibleinschools.net/

multiple versions from 2002-2006 :)

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J-Dog



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,12:34   

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 17 2007,11:02)
an organization called The National Council on Repression of Christianity...


What do I have to do to join?

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

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Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,12:45   

Quote

oh, I don't know about the need for that :)


The site owners can request that their material be removed from the Internet Archive.

Also, I had a discussion with one of the Internet Archive IT people. They are measuring their storage in petabytes, and it is all based on IDE hard drives. He told me that they are in a constant struggle to keep ahead of drive failure, and that from time to time they do not manage it and lose data. It really is best if the opposing party in the lawsuit collects the data while they can.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
silverspoon



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,18:14   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 17 2007,11:25)
oh, I don't know about the need for that :)

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.bibleinschools.net/

multiple versions from 2002-2006 :)

This is a hoot.  The NCBCPS links page as late as May 5, 2006 listed Kent Hovind as someone who supports their cause.  Maybe Al Capone would have supported them also.

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GCT



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,19:03   

Quote (improvius @ May 17 2007,11:59)
It looks like they've tried pretty hard to remove anything that overtly looks like endorsement from the NCBCPS website.  But they missed a couple of things:

"And I look to the day when, after you have returned the Bible to the schools, we will also see prayer restored to its proper place within the educational system."

And it looks like they may have taken down the link to this page ("...first step to get God back into your public school"), but it's still part of their site.

Hopefully the ACLU is keping cached versions of this website.

2,000 years ago a man died on a Cross, can't someone stand up for Him now?

  
skeptic



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Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,19:30   

Didn't I read that this was an elective class?  At what point does elective become indoctrination?

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,19:34   

Quote (skeptic @ May 17 2007,19:30)
Didn't I read that this was an elective class?  At what point does elective become indoctrination?

Alas, Skeptic, it doesn't matter if the class is elective or not.  The state cannot give its support, explicit or implicit, to religious doctrines.  No matter WHAT class it's in.

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skeptic



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(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,21:30   

I'm afraid that's not true or at least not Constitutional no matter how much you wish it were.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2007,22:26   

Quote

I'm afraid that's not true or at least not Constitutional no matter how much you wish it were.


No, Lenny is correct. The El Tejon, California school system backed away from an elective intersession philosophy class that was pushing IDC and YEC as true, because going to trial would have been a huge mistake.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Renier



Posts: 276
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,03:12   

Don't these people ever learn?

Reflecting back on my own school life in South Africa (1991). We had compulsery Bible classes, about 2 hours a week. It was all focused on the doctrine of the NG Church (Nederduits Gereformeerd = Dutch German Reformed). Apart from that, we used to pray and pray and pray. Praying at the start of each day, at the end of the day, even before certain classes, if the teacher was religious. We did not mind the official praying before exams because, hey, every little bit helps :-) At the start of the week, on a Monday morning, the whole school would assemble in the hall and there would be a sermon, about 30 minutes long. Heck, if you did not close your eyes during a prayer, and a teacher saw it, you would get 3 shots with a plank on the ass! Hurts like hell, I know, I had many :-) The whole education system was called ("Christian Higher Education"). The apartheid government endorsed the NG Church and that may very well be the reason why the NG doctrine was the "official" doctrine in the Afrikaans schools. Of course, the NG church endorsed the apartheid governement too.

Someone from my school once saw me wearing a Gothic t-shirt (I think it was Sisters of Mercy) and reported me to to the school principle. I got "called in" and was accused of "satanism". Almost got expelled over a friggin t-shirt.

*modified for accuracy

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



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Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,06:37   

Quote (skeptic @ May 17 2007,21:30)
I'm afraid that's not true or at least not Constitutional no matter how much you wish it were.

I'm afraid it is, Skeptic.

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Jason Spaceman



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(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,07:33   

Some of the URLs on the NCBCPS's links page might be familiar to people here.  They link to the DI, AiG, and Carl Baugh websites.

   
J-Dog



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Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,11:14   

Quote (Jason Spaceman @ May 18 2007,07:33)
Some of the URLs on the NCBCPS's links page might be familiar to people here.  They link to the DI, AiG, and Carl Baugh websites.

I like the letter of recommendation they included from noted bigot Jesse Helms.  

ps:  I call Jesse Helms next in the Dirt-Surfing Pool, so all you people calling next for Dobson and Robertson are just going to have to wait your turn.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2007,17:42   

Quote (Jason Spaceman @ May 18 2007,07:33)
Some of the URLs on the NCBCPS's links page might be familiar to people here.  They link to the DI, AiG, and Carl Baugh websites.

Carl Baugh ???????


Damn, even ICR and AiG laugh at him . . . .

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2013,00:18   

There's a petition aimed at textbook publishers urging them to quit serving the Texas market rather than to capitulate to demands to change textbook content to suit the Texas State Board of Education.

 
Quote

To all textbook publishers:

Science textbooks should provide our children with the best and most broadly accepted science information. It is unacceptable to cave to right-wing politicians and include religious pseudoscience in your publications.


It had a space for an additional comment. Here's mine.

 
Quote

It is time to break the cycle of ignorance. Science is a necessary part of keeping people healthy as we meet the challenges the future is poised to bring. Any act that diminishes public understanding of science ultimately reduces the capacity for survival of all of us.


Signing does get you email from CREDO and Daily Kos, though, so provide an email address you don't mind them using.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
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