Ftk
Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007
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| Quote (1of63 @ Feb. 10 2008,23:46) | | Quote (Ftk @ Feb. 10 2008,22:23) | | Have you ever stepped foot in a healthy church environment? Good grief, if you came to my church and left with the impression that what is going on there is "unfortunate for humanity", you'd have to be a complete loon. |
Thought experiment: your church runs the government. What would be its policies towards people who are atheist or gay or both? Would they be citizens? Would they have the vote? Would they be eligible to run for public office?
As a kid, I was in what seemed to be a "health church environment". Ordinary, decent people trying to live by Christ's teachings. Wouldn't have touched televangelists with a bargepole. Would've seen the right-wing fundies as little better than incipient Taliban or Nazis. Would've thought the Phelps bunch were quite mad - or maybe tools of Satan.
But I don't remember, if I ever knew, where they stood on things like atheism or homosexuality, so:
Theology: where does your church stand on the morality of The Flood, for example? Millions, perhaps billions, drowned because a God who, by definition, can't make mistakes, decides He's made one.
And even if you assume all the adults had sinned and deserved to die, the same can't be said of all the kids that would have died.
And you're supposed to be "For the kids".
Sure, PZ and the other leading atheists would like to see religious belief erased from human culture. Doesn't mean they'd wipe out the entire human race bar a handful of atheists to do it. But the God you worship - what is it with 'worship', anyway - claims to have done just that and was right to do it.
You see the problem? |
In regard to the flood:
The problem that I see is that neither one of us were there, so all we can do is speculate. Based on the few paragraphs in scripture, I could demand that God was unfair, or I could consider that perhaps He knew best what the future held. My church does not stand rigid on the facts surrounding the flood. Pastor often talks about shouts and whispers in scripture. There are basic tenants of Christianity which are loud and clear. Other issues are more of a whisper and not something to split a church over.
I trust that whatever the circumstances were during the time of the worldwide or local flood, God's involvement was a necessity.
I can choose to reject God because of something I don't fully understand, or I can consider His powerful hand in the vast complexity of creation. I watch people who authentically follow Him, and I see His involvement in their lives. It's very easy for me to understand that nature could not display such intense complexity without a designer. Logic tells us that it's impossible for anything to appear out of no where, and if a Creator exists, it's certainly possible that there is some reason for our existence.
| Quote | | What would be its policies towards people who are atheist or gay or both? |
They'd love them like anyone else. They'd certainly be welcome, though they would not considered for church leadership unless they grew to accept Christ as their Savior. Our church has various groups and activities for those in every level of their relationship with God. From those who question their beliefs to those who are strong in their faith.
| Quote | | Would they be citizens? Would they have the vote? Would they be eligible to run for public office? |
If you mean in regard to citizens of the US...certainly. Of course they have a right to vote and run for public office outside of the Christian church. As far as gay marriage, I wouldn't vote for it because I believe that marriage should be between and man and a woman. I don't have a particular problem with civil unions. If gay marriage because legal, there wouldn't be anything I could do about it...though, if a church approved of gay marriage, I would look for another. If a church supports gay marriage, then they are rejecting God's word.
According to the Apostle Paul, it is not the right for Christians to condemn the *world*, but rather their obligation is to keep the church from heresy.
1 Corinthians 5:9-12.
And, yes, I get "worship". For quite some time I didn't get the worship part, and now I know what I was missing.
I'll be leaving now because the fall out from this post is going to be off the charts.
Good night...
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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero
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