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Rob Posts: 154 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,14:45    Quote (Amadan @ Dec. 19 2007,08:45) In anticipation of a special anniversary tomorrow... I Am the Very Model of a C-Design-Proponentsist We're not worthy!  I bow before Amadan. -------------- -- Rob, the fartist formerly known as 2ndclass

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,14:51    Quote (Annyday @ Dec. 19 2007,14:38) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 19 2007,14:33) Quote (Annyday @ Dec. 19 2007,13:55)     Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 19 2007,11:52)       Quote (Annyday @ Dec. 19 2007,11:17) As a side note, don't follow links on encyclopedia dramatica unless you've got a strong stomach. This is a fair warning. Well. That's 20 minutes of my life I'll never get back. Did you see their forty-page entry of gory and disgusting pictures? If you haven't run into that yet, you've barely scraped the surface of the encyclopedia. Don't you dare give me the link to that, you bastard.     Seriously, you don't want to see it. It has no redeeming value and it makes all other internet shock sites seem mild. I believe you completely. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,17:21    Gil Dodg'em champions ignorance:     Quote Are Those Without Formal Academic Training in Evolutionary Biology Justified in Challenging the “Experts”? GilDodgen ...So, are those of us with no formal academic background in evolutionary biology (or, poor me, with no college academic background outside of foreign language, literature, and music) automatically disqualified from making challenges and asking hard questions? Some would say yes; I say no. Executive summary: "Do I know any science? No, but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night." -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,17:30    Quote Executive summary: "Do I know any science? No, but I slept at a Holiday Inn last night." That was damn funny. -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,18:02    Surely there is a first year PhD phil-anthro-socio-historico-student out there who is just slavering at the bit for a chance to examine pluralism in scientific theories, that might see this as an opportunity to take a gin-you-wine contromoversy and explore the ramifications of all (including pleasurians and platosplaythings (giggle)) 'competing' 'theories'.   Can one become an expert in biology simply by reading their bible and their 12 step AA manual? If not, can one become an expert in biology by learning C++ and all of the modal scales in all of the keys on one single instrument? If not, can one become an expert in biology by reading every single Scientific American for ten or so years, and not lose that status by cancelling their subscription? If not, can one become an expert in biology by lying to their graduate commitee? If not, can one become an expert in biology by lying to their fellow faculty? If not, can one become an expert in biology by lying to the public? Where is the breaks? I wanna see it.  Hell, I wish I was able to hire graduate students.  That shit is pure gold.  Not even my field, but surely someone here could be involved (Hermes, damn you, you out a doing the limbo wit'out me again, no?) -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,18:34    Yay! A Dembski Melt-down! http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-157313 Quote 19 William Dembski 12/19/2007 7:01 pm ChristopherSaint: Give us more credit, please. My dad got his PhD in biology at the the University of Erlangen and my parents live in Germany. My uncle was a professor of ergnomics at the Technische Hochschule in at the time West Berlin. I know the scene in Germany and elsewhere in Europe. And I have read Ratzsch and Sober carefully — Ratzsch spent a week in a six-week seminar that I conducted at Calvin College in 2000 to discuss his then forthcoming book. Although I like much about Mike Gene’s book, he is an amateur at the philosophy of science. Thus I find those who like Mike try to argue that ID is valuable but not science as engaged in misconceived philosophy of science. I’ll probably write a paper on this sometime — when I get time off from my scientific research with Bob Marks’s Evolutionary Informatics Lab (www.evoinfo.org). Forgive me for slipping this in, but where is the outcry from your colleagues about the suppression of this work? Finally, I have and will continue to allow posts about global warming on this forum because the same forces to obfuscate science at work in the global warming debate are at work with the ID debate. I must say, I really grow tired of Europeans finding fault with this blog. I have yet to see anything cutting-edge supporting ID coming out of Europe (prove me wrong). Those like Cees Dekker, who might have contributed, have jumped ship. In any case, I’m fluent in German, so if you have any sites to which you would like to direct me, be my guest. Wah wah - how dare you be critical when you're not supportive? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,19:12    Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 19 2007,18:34)   Quote 19 William Dembski 12/19/2007 7:01 pm---snip---Although I like much about Mike Gene’s book, he is an amateur at the philosophy of science. Thus I find those who like Mike try to argue that ID is valuable but not science as engaged in misconceived philosophy of science. I’ll probably write a paper on this sometime — when I get time off from my scientific research with Bob Marks’s Evolutionary Informatics Lab (www.evoinfo.org). Wah wah - how dare you be critical when you're not supportive? Furthermore, as a credentialed philosopher of science, I will soon proceed to denigrate amateurs like Mike Gene, but the rest of the amateur biologists at ID can continue to transform biology with their brilliant amateur insights... -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,19:12    Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 19 2007,19:34) Yay! A Dembski Melt-down! http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-157313   Quote 19 William Dembski ... Although I like much about Mike Gene’s book, he is an amateur at the philosophy of science. Thus I find those who like Mike try to argue that ID is valuable but not science as engaged in misconceived philosophy of science. OK, now I'm getting confused. Gil says that having no credentials in this field is a strength, but WAD apparently disagrees. Gil HAZ no relevant credentials so if he is right about his assertion he is probably right about his assertion. But Dembski HAZ credentials, so if he is right about HIS assertion he is probably right about HIS assertion.  Wha...? -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,19:19    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Dec. 19 2007,19:12) Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 19 2007,19:34) Yay! A Dembski Melt-down! http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-157313     Quote 19 William Dembski ... Although I like much about Mike Gene’s book, he is an amateur at the philosophy of science. Thus I find those who like Mike try to argue that ID is valuable but not science as engaged in misconceived philosophy of science. OK, now I'm getting confused. Gil says that having no credentials in this field is a strength, but WAD apparently disagrees. Gil HAZ no relevant credentials so if he is right about his assertion he is probably right about his assertion. But Dembski HAZ credentials, so if he is right about HIS assertion he is probably right about HIS assertion.  Wha...? Bill, Bill, Bill. It's not complicated. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. It's like this: a lack of any kind of credentials is a positive if you're pro-ID. However a lack of credentials -- or even not having exactly the right kind of credentials, as decided by pro-IDers -- disqualifies you from criticizing ID. Got it? Good, apply that rule at ID in the future and you'll have no surprises. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

bystander Posts: 301 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,19:36    Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 20 2007,02:09) Quote (someotherguy @ Dec. 19 2007,10:01) Post of the week right here! Seconded. Bwa Ha ha ha .... Closer to being one of the posts of the year. I can just see Dembski in his little Major Generals outfit singing this.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,19:55    Quote (bystander @ Dec. 19 2007,19:36) Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 20 2007,02:09) Quote (someotherguy @ Dec. 19 2007,10:01) Post of the week right here! Seconded. Bwa Ha ha ha .... Closer to being one of the posts of the year. I can just see Dembski in his little Major Generals outfit singing this. Dude - He's GOT to be wearing his sweater! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

hooligans Posts: 114 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,20:25    Dembski seez: Quote when I get time off from my scientific research with Bob Marks’s Evolutionary Informatics Lab WTF!?! This dude clearly lives in a closet! I was still wondering how long it took to move the lab off of Baylor's campus? How long could it take to unplug the computer and move it to another broom-closet off campus?

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,20:28    I like how he says "scientific research", too. Normal people either just say research, or they say what they're actually researching into, but Dembski wants to emphasize that his research is scientific above considerations such as what it actually is. -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,20:30    Quote (bystander @ Dec. 19 2007,19:36) Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 20 2007,02:09) Quote (someotherguy @ Dec. 19 2007,10:01) Post of the week right here! Seconded. Bwa Ha ha ha .... Closer to being one of the posts of the year. I can just see Dembski in his little Major Generals outfit singing this. FLASH ANIMATION! -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,20:51    O'Leary: Quote But if you think that the information service that Bill Dembski has provided you here for years - out of his own resources - is worthwhile, go to Amazon and vote up the reviews that sound like the person has actually READ the book. Vote the others down. -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

OccamsAfterShave Posts: 5 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,21:13    Quote (Amadan @ Dec. 19 2007,08:45) I Am the Very Model of a C-Design-Proponentsist We G&S fans are a ruthless lot. (beer to the identifier of the Dembski proclamation linking triangles and thermodynamics) -------------- John Kassel

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,22:09    Quote (Annyday @ Dec. 19 2007,20:28) I like how he says "scientific research", too. Normal people either just say research, or they say what they're actually researching into, but Dembski wants to emphasize that his research is scientific above considerations such as what it actually is. Here's a picture of Dembski when he was in Europe doing "scientific research" -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,23:19    Quote (OccamsAfterShave @ Dec. 19 2007,21:13)   Quote (Amadan @ Dec. 19 2007,08:45) I Am the Very Model of a C-Design-Proponentsist We G&S fans are a ruthless lot. Then of course you'll want to see this. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,00:08    Quote (factician @ Dec. 19 2007,13:02) Dembski writes about The Design Matrix. From the Amazon page of The Design Matrix:       Quote Active discussions in related forums Discussion Replies Latest Post religion Why I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. 235 13 seconds ago religion What are the religious implications of accepting that today's living creatures have evolved from common ancestors? 16 3 minutes ago religion Share Your Favorite Scriptures Here! 26 3 minutes ago Yep, all science so far! From the Amazon page for the book:     Quote Customers viewing this page may be interested in these Sponsored Links (What's this?) DJ Ignite The Dance Floor www.ShadowDancers.tv    You choose the music, Our dancers will move & groove in time to it   Matrix Ringtone flycell.com    Send Matrix ringtones to your cell phone now!   Interior Design Schools AllArtSchools.com    Find Interior Design Schools near you. Get info and apply today!   See a problem with these advertisements? Let us know   No problem with these advertisements at all.  Definitely all science so far.

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,00:19    Quote (keiths @ Dec. 19 2007,20:51) O'Leary:   Quote But if you think that the information service that Bill Dembski has provided you here for years - out of his own resources - is worthwhile, go to Amazon and vote up the reviews that sound like the person has actually READ the book. Vote the others down. Ironic that she wants people to sound like they've read the book.  Here's her review: http://www.amazon.com/review....Helpful Quote 5.0 out of 5 stars At last - serious information about what the ID guys say!, December 13, 2007 By Denyse O'Leary "Denyse" A growing pile of books dealing with intelligent design (ID) is published each year. Some argue for or against a given ID hypothesis, others try to interpret the controversy on behalf of an interest group. After we have set aside the works of conspiracy theorists and sectarian or atheist cranks, which of the new books legitimately demand our attention? Design of Life, by ID theorists William Dembski and Jonathan Wells, is certainly one. It offers the ID theorists' current analysis of key problems in the evolution of life on Earth. Origin of mind, origin of species, and origin of life are all covered in detail, as is irreducible and specified complexity in The Design of Life: Discovering Signs of Intelligence In Biological Systems. Design of Life is particularly valuable as a supplement to textbooks that minimize the problems with current accounts of evolution. It is also a timely resource for those who are willing to consider the possibility that an accurate history of life includes an account of design, not only of chance and necessity. - Denyse O'Leary, author, journalist, and blogger, and co-author of The Spiritual Brain -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,01:50    Bleeeeeuuugh! http://www.uncommondescent.com/the-des....-157355 Quote Dembski’s genius is validated again and again... Poor guy. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Hermagoras Posts: 1260 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,01:57    BarryA is a tard Quote My grandfather dropped out of school after the 2nd grade. But he was a mechanical genious [sic]. Some of the things he made were truly amazing. He was also self taught in many fields. When he died his personal library ran into the thousands of volumes (all of which he had read, some many times). He worked at an aircraft factory, and sometimes the engineers would ask him for advice. I have always found it amusing that college educated professionals would ask a 2nd grade dropout for help. Of course I am not recommending that anyone drop out. I’m only suggesting that a lack of formal academic credentials does not mean that a person cannot make a significant contribution to a field. This reminds me of my uncle, who went through high school but was self-taught in computers and various kinds of mechanics.  He joined the service, travelled around, is very smart.  Given the right conditions he'd be a "mechanical genius."  But it happens that he didn't have those conditions, and so he spent the bulk of his adult life trying to develop a perpetual motion machine.   A scientific education won't make you brilliant.  But the absence of education can make even a brilliant person into a quack. -------------- "I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,02:02    Oh, I see what you did there... Where have you been, BTW? Your dinners in the dog. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,02:14    Quote (Bob O'H @ Dec. 19 2007,22:19) Quote (keiths @ Dec. 19 2007,20:51) O'Leary:   Quote But if you think that the information service that Bill Dembski has provided you here for years - out of his own resources - is worthwhile, go to Amazon and vote up the reviews that sound like the person has actually READ the book. Vote the others down. Ironic that she wants people to sound like they've read the book.  Here's her review: http://www.amazon.com/review....Helpful Quote 5.0 out of 5 stars At last - serious information about what the ID guys say!, December 13, 2007 By Denyse O'Leary "Denyse" A growing pile of books dealing with intelligent design (ID) is published each year. Some argue for or against a given ID hypothesis, others try to interpret the controversy on behalf of an interest group. After we have set aside the works of conspiracy theorists and sectarian or atheist cranks, which of the new books legitimately demand our attention? Design of Life, by ID theorists William Dembski and Jonathan Wells, is certainly one. It offers the ID theorists' current analysis of key problems in the evolution of life on Earth. Origin of mind, origin of species, and origin of life are all covered in detail, as is irreducible and specified complexity in The Design of Life: Discovering Signs of Intelligence In Biological Systems. Design of Life is particularly valuable as a supplement to textbooks that minimize the problems with current accounts of evolution. It is also a timely resource for those who are willing to consider the possibility that an accurate history of life includes an account of design, not only of chance and necessity. - Denyse O'Leary, author, journalist, and blogger, and co-author of The Spiritual Brain Quote A growingsteaming pile of books dealing with intelligent design (ID) is published each year. I fixed that for you, Denyse. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,02:29    Look on the bright side, Hermagoras.  At least you have a ready supply of mushrooms. Bob P.S. good to see your DNA hasn't suffered from heat death yet. -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Amadan Posts: 1337 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,04:05    Quote 19 William Dembski 12/19/2007 7:01 pm ChristopherSaint: Give us more credit, please. My dad got his PhD in biology at the the University of Erlangen and my parents live in Germany. My uncle was a professor of ergnomics at the Technische Hochschule in at the time West Berlin. I know the scene in Germany and elsewhere in Europe . . . In any case, I’m fluent in German . . . ...which is why, when my first post on your blog referred to "Büstenhalter front-loading" you nodded sagely, and Scrotus complimented me on a "great post"! Arschloch -------------- "People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011 JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

Amadan Posts: 1337 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,04:50    They're recruiting at the Evolutionary Informatics Lab! Somehow, the late lamented B. Kliban always has something relevant to add to the ID Tardis: PS: Having trouble posting some images, can someone PM me about URL lengths & format rules? Mucho thanko -------------- "People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011 JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,05:21    Denyse seems to be arguing against (or accusing us of?) a very crude version of cognitive elimitavism which makes it into some kind of screwy cult. She's also using the exact same type of language people use while accusing others of worshiping dark heathen gods. Compare what she actually wrote to this, with some nouns changed: Quote The infidel’s duty is not to see or hear or know, but merely to stupidly protest. That makes sense. In the final assault of idolatry against mind-based civilization, the infidels are revealing that they do not think that they have souls. Their selfish gods have brought them to the point where they mindlessly yay-hoo against books they have never read and never intend to read, as well as films they have never seen and never intend to see. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Fhtagn! -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,06:29    Too funny!  Poachy writes re O'Leary's whining about Amazon book reviews   Quote KF write:(sic)   Quote    In the meanwhile, while we wait on Amazon to fix its problems, we need to maintain a hall of shame that will publicly identify and censure those who are responsible for this sort of incivility, or who actively promote it. They ought to be turned over to Galapagos Finch for his special brand of censure. G. Finch, aka  Dr. Dr. Dembski, has his own shoddy history with Amazon book reviews; in 2004 he was revealed as the author of a review of a book that he probably didn't read, and IDers have also been known to submit boilerplate reviews, differing only in the name of the book and the author, for two different books. It would indeed require a "special brand of censure" to accommodate all of those past transgressions as well as the current perceived ones. Some might even re-label it as "hypocrisy". -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Altabin Posts: 308 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,06:50    Quote (keiths @ Dec. 20 2007,03:51) O'Leary:     Quote But if you think that the information service that Bill Dembski has provided you here for years - out of his own resources - is worthwhile, go to Amazon and vote up the reviews that sound like the person has actually READ the book. Vote the others down. Meh.   This is pretty typical in the early days of any scientific revolution or paradigm shift.  Who can forget Bohr's campaign to vote down Einstein's review of his Theory of Spectra and Atomic Constitution (the one in which Einstein famously wrote, "God does not play dice, beeeatch")? Just the normal rough-and-tumble of high-level scientific discourse. --------------

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