Joined: April 2007
|Quote (sparc @ Oct. 23 2011,02:36)|
|Quote (Patrick @ Oct. 22 2011,13:34)|
|Lewontin! Only this time, from Elizabeth Liddle. She takes kairosfocus through the entire review that he so loves to quote mine, explaining the big words to him and refuting him point by point.|
Lizzie seems like someone I'd enjoy having a beer with, but in my opinion she is wasting her time with such a thorough fisking. kairosfocus is willfully ignorant, dishonest, hypocritical, and incapable of admitting error. There is nothing to be gained from interacting with him.
That last sentence is actually true of all the intelligent design creationists remaining at UD. They're not even worth making fun of anymore. Anyone know of a better tard source?
My prediction for KF's reply (if he dares)
it's actually his default statement after being nailed.
|red herring distractions, led away to set up strawman posed in the fever swamps and duly soaked in ad hominems, then set alight. That distracts, poisons, intoxicates, polarsises and clouds the air, which then spreads out from the fever swamps to the culture at large.|
As predicted: After >8000 unreadable KairosFocus continues in the comment section:
|Dr Matzke, |
You are wrong, and you know or should know you are wrong; this is no mere idiosyncratic, minority, personal view — as Lewontin himself says when he notes “To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists . . . ”
As the four clippings here document, this is representative of the US NAS, NSTA and of course the NCSE which you were the PR person for.
This is particularly evident from the interventions the NSTA and NAS made — with NCSE hovering in the background of the whole sorry episode [and with the local affiliate fronting . . . ] — in Kansas. I don’t take holding the children of Kansas HOSTAGE lightly.
And that was what was clearly done in that letter, through a threat that has no basis but institutional power of ideological materialism.
A priori materialism is in the driver’s seat of current institutional science, and it does not shun to wield the censor’s pen, or to crack the whip.
Since it is now quite clear that Lewontin DOES advocate a priori materialism, the attempt is to isolate him in our perceptions. But, this will not wash for those familiar with the way the elites and the politically correct who expelled Gonzalez and others think.Don’t forget the current raft of cases.
Now, here is the US NAS, the elites of the scientific establishment, in the 2008 version of a long running pamphlet [which is one of the four linked clips I keep pointing to], showing that this has been going on for about 20 – 25 years:
The NSTA is in like vein, but brings out the materialistic commitments more explicitly and repeatedly; remember, in Kansas, the NAS and NSTA acted jointly, and this shows how they are singing off the same hymn sheet:
So, we can see the context in which the NAS and NSTA JOINTLY intervened in Kansas to enforce a radical, tendentious redefinition of science, threatening to hold the students of that state hostage if the Board of Education did not comply, with the NCSE hovering in the background and acting though a local front organisation.
All of this goes to underscore how in our time a radical, materialist redefinition of science is being imposed through institutional dominance by a priori materialists, and is presented as though it is the longstanding standard for doing real not fraudulent science. of course, those who object to the radical coup are being tagged as pseudoscientific, i.e. we see here atmosphere poisoning that sets up and knocks over strawmen as pointed out above.
Those who are doing this should take warning from how the public is waking up from the spell imposed by the manipulators of climate science, in the aftermath of the Climategate revelations, and correct themselves before the public has to act in its own interests.[/b]
GEM of TKI
| Dr Liddle:|
Pardon, but you are repeating a strawman argument.
Strawman and manifestly false assertion.
Editing for emphasis heavily in
fluencspireded by Gordon E. Mullings style.
ETA more irrational emphasis
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."
- William Dembski -