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CCP Posts: 25 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:05    "But I would say that some information required to make an human is not in his/her genome. The egg cell has the information required to decode the genome (the genetic code), and it cannot be in the genome itself." Nah. Ribosomes are in the egg cell, and they translate nucleic acid sequence into amino acid sequence, but all the parts of a ribosome are encoded in the genome. What's cool is that the ribosome itself does not "know" the genetic code--it just provides a place to match mRNA codons with tRNA anticodons, then catalyzes (with RNA! ) the linking of amino acids by peptide bonds. So does transfer RNA "know" the code? No, each tRNA just carries the appropriate amino acid for its anticodon, but does not itself find or bind that amino acid. That's the job of a group of ~20 enzymes (one for each amino acid) called amino-acyl-tRNA synthetases  :O So do those enzymes "know" the code? Sort of, I guess--they match amino acids with tRNAs with the correct anticodon--but each synthetase only "knows" one "word" of the code. All the synthetases and tRNAs are coded by genes anyway. Disclaimer: I am not a molecular biologist, I just play one every fall in a classroom.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:07    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 21 2007,15:00) Quote (Ichthyic @ June 21 2007,14:06) Quote He's a bad Tard in a small universe, that Dembski. why is the themesong from "Shaft" playing in my head now? Who's the number crunching fella That looks for god in bacterial flagella? (Dembski!) You're damn right Who is the man That would risk his cushy Baylor-bible gig? (Dembski!) Can ya dig it? Who's the cat that will cop out when the judge asks "witness, what's ID about?" (Dembski!) Right on You see this cat Dembski says the designer's called.. (Shut your mouth) Oh yeah, close the big tent. (Then we can dig it) He's a complicated man But no one understands him but his designer (Jebus o' the bible) Richard - Excellent work as usual... BUT, how does an Englishman, know Shaft well enough to drop in a Dembski at the drop of a hat? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:11    IM AN AUTODICTOR WITH AN IQ NORTH OF 150 CONFIRMED BY SETI. INFERRIOR MINDS SUCH AS YOU'RES CANT FATHOM HOW FAST MY MIND WORKS. HOMO. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:23    Quote (J-Dog @ June 21 2007,15:07) BUT, how does an Englishman, know Shaft well enough to drop in a Dembski at the drop of a hat? RTH is an wanna-be, putting on an American affectation in order to appear cool.  Not unlike those upper middle class white kids listening to Snoop Dogg while driving to school in the BMW Daddy bought them. Har Har Har. This is RTH: -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:28    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ June 21 2007,13:32)     Quote (jeannot @ June 21 2007,13:01) Stephen, To encode for letters (ACTG), you need two bits, for example: 00 = A 01 = C 10 = G 11 = T IF A=C and G=T. A = T C = G Quote (Stephen Elliott @ June 21 2007,13:32) A code could be (on 1 strand) A C G T A T . You would then know that its matching code =C A T G C G So although it looks like 4 choices of bits, it is actually only 2. I'm not sure I know what that means. Four choice of bits is four bits of information? In any case, the second strand, being an exact mirror image, is redundant. So it counts for zero information. Just ignore it. Only the one strand encodes unique information, two bits per nucleotide, usually in three nucleotide groupings called codons. The Shannon Information is somewhat less as not all sequences are as likely as others. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:30    Quote (carlsonjok @ June 21 2007,15:23)   Quote (J-Dog @ June 21 2007,15:07) BUT, how does an Englishman, know Shaft well enough to drop in a Dembski at the drop of a hat? RTH is an wanna-be, putting on an American affectation in order to appear cool.  Not unlike those upper middle class white kids listening to Snoop Dogg while driving to school in the BMW Daddy bought them. Har Har Har. This is RTH: [serious] I have no idea, of course, but I was always fascinated by blaxploitation films and personally inspired by Curtis Mayfield and his positive message. I can never know the African American position, and it is surely in flux, but I was touched by Stevie Wonder's middle eight in "The Crown" by Gary Byrd:   Quote when I was just a little boy I used to hurry home from school I used to always feel so blue Because there was no mention in the books we read about my heritage. So therefore any information that I got was education. Bums, hobos at depot stations I would listen with much patience Or to relatives who told the tales that they were told to pass ahead. And then one day from someone old I heard a story never told Of all the kingdoms of my people and then how we fought for freedom All about the many things we have unto the world contributed. You wear the crown. - We wear the crown - we wear the Crown. [/serious] -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:32    William Dembski Quote Pixie is no longer with us. That's The Pixie. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:34    Quote (Zachriel @ June 21 2007,15:32) William Dembski   Quote Pixie is no longer with us. That's The Pixie. I knew it was you, Zach. The prose was so good. Dembski didn't fair well in that exchange.. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

cogzoid Posts: 234 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:37    Quote IF A=C and G=T. A code could be (on 1 strand) A C G T A T . You would then know that its matching code =C A T G C G So although it looks like 4 choices of bits, it is actually only 2. ) Kinda like having a logic stream where 0 or 1could be represented by 1 of 2 voltages. Example: Logic 0 could be 1 or 9 volts and logic 1 could be 3 or 7 volts. Nope, you really do have 4 choices.   A ~= T G ~= C A and T are only complements, like G and C. The redundancy of both sides of the DNA strands being complements of each other is taken into account when computing genome length. If you want to expand your electrical metaphor, you'd have to add another bit to designate the sign of each voltage.

stephenWells Posts: 127 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:50    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 20 2007,13:21) Using a compression algorithm can shave a bit off of that, probably enough to make the compressed file fit on a CD-ROM. I used a specific genetic sequence compression program on some shorter sequences and, IIRC, it generally reduced a representation to about 0.8 of its full size. That would be an approximation to Kolmogorov information size. Interesting. If you took the representation and ran it through gzip, what kind of compression do you think you'd get?

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:55    Quote (stephenWells @ June 21 2007,15:50) Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 20 2007,13:21) Using a compression algorithm can shave a bit off of that, probably enough to make the compressed file fit on a CD-ROM. I used a specific genetic sequence compression program on some shorter sequences and, IIRC, it generally reduced a representation to about 0.8 of its full size. That would be an approximation to Kolmogorov information size. Interesting. If you took the representation and ran it through gzip, what kind of compression do you think you'd get? There must be some compressibility, especially if large strings are repeated. http://www.neuro.wustl.edu/NEUROMUSCULAR/mother/dnarep.htm -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,15:55    Why has WAD posted an image of a friar writing on the blackboard while balancing his package on his forehead? Is this metaphorical? -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:00    Quote (J-Dog @ June 21 2007,13:37) Dembski hisself can still wield a mean Bannanator Button ™, and  Another One Bites The Dust... Alas poor Pixie, we knew him well... The Pixie 06/21/2007 9:39 am Tribune, there is some ambiguity in both those cases; we do not know for certain why Gonzales failed to get tenure (maybe Iowa State did want anyone associated with anti-science, rather than someone who criticised evolution). Micheal Behe, Granville Sewell and Michael Denton still hold university positions despite their criticisms of evolution. Larry, why do you think it is the teacher? Do teachers often have to write lines on the blackboard in your experience? A general comment: Why should we suppose from this cartoon that there is a “Church of the Living Darwin”? Is a rejection of any and all criticism a distinguishing feature of religion? followed by  this: 8 William Dembski 06/21/2007 11:32 am Pixie is no longer with us. Take Home Lesson:  Don't mess with Dr. Dr. Dembski's Cartoons!   (And was the good DR. reading our earlier thread where we decided that IDCers have NO sense of humor?  Yeah.  Good one Bill.  This will show us all about your sense of humor!) http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....-125570 They've banned more people at UD this week than I've banned since I became moderator last July.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:01    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 21 2007,15:34)                     Quote (Zachriel @ June 21 2007,15:32) William Dembski                         Quote Pixie is no longer with us. That's The Pixie. I knew it was you, Zach. The prose was so good. Thanks, but The Pixie deserves the credit. I never use other monikers. My comment was more on the lines of "That's DOCTOR DOCTOR William Dembski Dembski, PhD, PhD, M.Div!, Isaac Newton of Information Theory".   Quote (Richardthughes @ June 21 2007,15:34) Dembski didn't fair well in that exchange.. It's hard to fare well when you are seen to kick out reasonable commenters. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:01    Quote (nuytsia @ June 21 2007,05:26) Quote (stevestory @ June 21 2007,04:01)     Quote (djmullen @ June 21 2007,02:18) Granville said:     Quote On a completely different topic, Dave, you (I believe it was you) had a post many months ago where you suggested that if evolutionary simulators wanted to better simulate reality, they should subject everything to random errors, their entire program, the compiler and OS and the hardware (well, that was the idea anyway). I thought that was one of the most significant points ever made at UD (though as I recall no one else seemed to). Because it was dumb as hell. If I recall correctly wasn't this the post where it was pointed out that using the same logic, if you wanted to properly model a falling object you have to run that simulation on a computer thrown out of plane? Yeah. If you wanted to simulate magma flow you had to throw the computer into a volcano.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:02    Quote IM AN AUTODICTOR WITH AN IQ NORTH OF 150 CONFIRMED BY SETI. INFERRIOR MINDS SUCH AS YOU'RES CANT FATHOM HOW FAST MY MIND WORKS. HOMO. RITCHARD: IM GLAD YOUR FINALY SINING YOU'RE EMAILS NOW. HA HA I SLAY ME SOMETIMES! -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:04    Quote (hooligans @ June 21 2007,15:01) I took a few moments to catalogue both the type and quantity of posts made at UD since April 2007. I didn't count posts in multiple catagories, even though that would make sense. For example, all Denyse O'leary posts were classified in their own category because it doesn't matter what they were about, they are all just f**king crazy sh*t. While I could have also counted them in other categories, like Evolution is Evil, I figured this would just take too much thought and time. I think the results speak clearly . . . UD whines a whole lot, bu they don't do sh*t. ID is Persecuted = 33 Atricles Unwittingly Supporting ID = 17 Global Warming Isn't Happening = 15 Reviews of Popular Books about ID (not peer-reviewed) = 15 Stupid Articles by Denyse = 12 Evolution is Wrong, So ID is Right = 12 Articles That Don't Make Any Sense (not by Denyse) = 9 Davescot Pontificating About Something He Doesn't Understand = 8 Street Theatre = 7 Complaints/Putdowns about Dover or Jones = 5 Evolution is Evil = 5 Teach the Controversy = 5 Jeolousy/Hatred of Dawkins = 4 New Research ID is Thinking About Doing Sometime = 2 ID Supporting Pleasurianism = 1 New Research by ID Scientists = 0 Thank you for plugging your nose and cataloging this. This list deserves to be much more widely publicized. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:09    Quote (Zachriel @ June 21 2007,15:32) William Dembski   Quote Pixie is no longer with us. That's The Pixie. Bravo! Personally banned by Dembski-at-his-most-pissy hisself! (A banning by DaveScot with an insult would have been even cooler, but we can't have everything.) Can't help but wonder what kind of impression that kind of kneejerk banning makes among the UD rank and file, whether it clashes with their perpetual whines about suppression of free speech. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:34    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 21 2007,15:04)   Quote (hooligans @ June 21 2007,15:01) I took a few moments to catalogue both the type and quantity of posts made at UD since April 2007. I didn't count posts in multiple catagories, even though that would make sense. For example, all Denyse O'leary posts were classified in their own category because it doesn't matter what they were about, they are all just f**king crazy sh*t. While I could have also counted them in other categories, like Evolution is Evil, I figured this would just take too much thought and time. I think the results speak clearly . . . UD whines a whole lot, bu they don't do sh*t. ID is Persecuted = 33 Atricles Unwittingly Supporting ID = 17 Global Warming Isn't Happening = 15 Reviews of Popular Books about ID (not peer-reviewed) = 15 Stupid Articles by Denyse = 12 Evolution is Wrong, So ID is Right = 12 Articles That Don't Make Any Sense (not by Denyse) = 9 Davescot Pontificating About Something He Doesn't Understand = 8 Street Theatre = 7 Complaints/Putdowns about Dover or Jones = 5 Evolution is Evil = 5 Teach the Controversy = 5 Jeolousy/Hatred of Dawkins = 4 New Research ID is Thinking About Doing Sometime = 2 ID Supporting Pleasurianism = 1 New Research by ID Scientists = 0 Thank you for plugging your nose and cataloging this. This list deserves to be much more widely publicized. JHC, that's hilarious, and impressive. Bravo! I looked it up. The Library of Congress classification number for intelligent design is TA69.R00.D2005 -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:34    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 21 2007,16:04) Thank you for plugging your nose and cataloging this. This list deserves to be much more widely publicized. OK, we did our part.... -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,16:36    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 21 2007,16:34) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 21 2007,16:04) Thank you for plugging your nose and cataloging this. This list deserves to be much more widely publicized. OK, we did our part.... I did dun electronic-emailed it to peezee and DftCW. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2007,19:44    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 21 2007,17:09) Quote (Zachriel @ June 21 2007,15:32) William Dembski   Quote Pixie is no longer with us. That's The Pixie. Bravo! Personally banned by Dembski-at-his-most-pissy hisself! (A banning by DaveScot with an insult would have been even cooler, but we can't have everything.) Can't help but wonder what kind of impression that kind of kneejerk banning makes among the UD rank and file, whether it clashes with their perpetual whines about suppression of free speech. Seriously?  What kind of impression?  They probably all applaud getting rid of those stupid evilutionists that only want to create strawmen versions of ID, or somesuch nonsense.  Irony is totally lost on those cretins.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,00:54    How many times will bornagain77 make these 10 "Theism predicted"  posts? Teh tard, it buuurrrrrnzzz. http://www.uncommondescent.com/science....-125614 There should be some drinking game associated with these posts. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,01:38    http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....zealots Quote 22 June 2007 Senators Clinton and Boxer learn from Darwin zealots DaveScot In an interesting bit of news Senator Inohofe stated he overheard Senators Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Barbara Boxer (D-CA) saying they wanted to stifle conservative talk radio via legislation. Now where have we seen this tactic before - when people want to criticize something and you can’t counter it with facts you turn instead to legal chicanery to silence their criticism. .... Erm, at Uncommon Descent, with you moderating, Dave. For a guy who berates folks for fact-checking, do you think "some republitard says he overheard a conversation" meets your criteria? BAD, BAD TARD. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,01:46    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 21 2007,10:18)   Quote (stevestory @ June 21 2007,04:01)         Quote (djmullen @ June 21 2007,02:18) Granville said:           Quote On a completely different topic, Dave, you (I believe it was you) had a post many months ago where you suggested that if evolutionary simulators wanted to better simulate reality, they should subject everything to random errors, their entire program, the compiler and OS and the hardware (well, that was the idea anyway). I thought that was one of the most significant points ever made at UD (though as I recall no one else seemed to). Because it was dumb as hell. Holy shit. This unbelieveably stupid notion was wrestled to the ground at UD [URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/a-realistic-computational-simulation-of-random-mutation-filtered-by-natural-selection-in-b iology/]here[/URL],  here and   here.  GilDodg'em was reduced to claiming that he was just funnin'. I got banned somewhere along the way, along with several others.  The tumbleweeds were permitted to stay. I just had a look at that thread.  I think Tom English got it about right: "I say categorically, as someone who has worked in evolutionary computation for 15 years, that Gil does not understand what he is talking about." Gil, of course, was the originator of the whole "mutate the OS or you're not doing it right" idea.

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,02:00    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 21 2007,15:55) Why has WAD posted an image of a friar writing on the blackboard while balancing his package on his forehead? Is this metaphorical? The Friar represents Dembski being repressed by Darwinism.  The reason his "package" is on his forehead is because it just stuck there when he pulled his head out of his ...

djmullen Posts: 327 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,02:58    Laugh of the day: Pharyngula displays the cartoon at http://www.gocomics.com/rallcom/2007/06/21/ which is about Stupid Design. I just love the line in the fifth panel: "A malevolent or FEMA-like creator is an intriguing idea - one that should be explored in philosophy or political science class." I think this would be a good topic for Unconscious Descent: Is the Designer also Director of FEMA?  Or do you think that highly effective Storms of Mass Destruction are just accidental?

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,06:05    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 22 2007,01:38) http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....zealots Quote 22 June 2007 Senators Clinton and Boxer learn from Darwin zealots DaveScot In an interesting bit of news Senator Inohofe stated he overheard Senators Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Barbara Boxer (D-CA) saying they wanted to stifle conservative talk radio via legislation. Now where have we seen this tactic before - when people want to criticize something and you can’t counter it with facts you turn instead to legal chicanery to silence their criticism. .... Erm, at Uncommon Descent, with you moderating, Dave. For a guy who berates folks for fact-checking, do you think "some republitard says he overheard a conversation" meets your criteria? BAD, BAD TARD. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Patrick Caldon Posts: 68 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,06:19    Quote (hooligans @ June 21 2007,15:01) I took a few moments to catalogue both the type and quantity of posts made at UD since April 2007. ... ID is Persecuted = 33 Atricles Unwittingly Supporting ID = 17 Global Warming Isn't Happening = 15 Reviews of Popular Books about ID (not peer-reviewed) = 15 Stupid Articles by Denyse = 12 Evolution is Wrong, So ID is Right = 12 Articles That Don't Make Any Sense (not by Denyse) = 9 Davescot Pontificating About Something He Doesn't Understand = 8 Street Theatre = 7 Complaints/Putdowns about Dover or Jones = 5 Evolution is Evil = 5 Teach the Controversy = 5 Jeolousy/Hatred of Dawkins = 4 New Research ID is Thinking About Doing Sometime = 2 ID Supporting Pleasurianism = 1 New Research by ID Scientists = 0 Very well done.  That looks like a lot of work (and pain!) and it tells the story well.

Patrick Caldon Posts: 68 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2007,06:22    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 22 2007,01:38) http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....zealots   Quote 22 June 2007 Senators Clinton and Boxer learn from Darwin zealots DaveScot In an interesting bit of news Senator Inohofe stated he overheard Senators Hillary Clinton (D-NY) and Barbara Boxer (D-CA) saying they wanted to stifle conservative talk radio via legislation. Now where have we seen this tactic before - when people want to criticize something and you can’t counter it with facts you turn instead to legal chicanery to silence their criticism. .... Erm, at Uncommon Descent, with you moderating, Dave. For a guy who berates folks for fact-checking, do you think "some republitard says he overheard a conversation" meets your criteria? BAD, BAD TARD. It's not ID's task to match your pathetic level of detail in telling stories.

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