RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (1000) < ... 427 428 429 430 431 [432] 433 434 435 436 437 ... >   
  Topic: Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,12:25   

*Shimmy* G. Gordon Liddy, I mean, Scooter Libby convicted on all but one count! :)

Now he'll go to prison and write a pro-ID book just like Colson. :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,14:23   

GilDodgen  
Quote
When it comes to cosmological fine-tuning, one has two alternatives: 1) fine-tuning is the product of design, and a straightforward evaluation of the evidence would suggest such a conclusion, or 2) fine-tuning is an illusion created by the fact that there is an infinitude of random universes (for which there is no evidence, that are in-principle undetectable, and that must be assumed because of a philosophical commitment to the notion that design cannot possibly exist).

Which conclusion is the product of reasoning based on evidence, and which conclusion is the product of blind faith?

Or maybe some possibility you have yet to consider. Could the relationships be due to some underlying symmetry? All GilDodgen has done here is to have constructed a false dichotomy, then used an argument from incredulity to rule out one option.

The planets form intricate orbits against the fixed stars. This could be due to fine-tuning, or it could be that there are an infinitude of planetary systems and the Solar System is just the one we got. Naw!

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,14:39   

DaveTard:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/biology....t-96909

Quote
13

DaveScot

03/06/2007

2:41 pm
Tims

I think ID needs to present some actual research, something that can be tested.


Why should ID be held to a higher standard than RM+NS as a macroevolution mechanism? See here for details.

P.S. You need to start showing a greater understanding of what ID is or your time here is coming to a close.

Read this and let me know if there’s anything you don’t understand. The next comment where you present a strawman of ID will be your last.


Dave - you can't test it as a mechanism, because you've got none proposed, you zerowavelengthcheesypoof. So you're fine with ID doing no research, being infertile in a scientific sense?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,14:46   

Tims' excellent post deserves to be posted in full:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/biology....t-96676

Quote
12

Tims

03/06/2007

10:39 am
Jerry,

I read your comment, you did sum things up quiet well on your post. I do not agree with parts of it due to some misunderstandings of TOE but it is understandable.

I think ID needs to present some actual research, something that can be tested. TOE does have research that has been tested and proven valid and it has had some failures, just as any evolving science. I see ID doing this job of hitting the media and pushing out a lot of talk but nothing hard core such as actual research geared to show an empirical designer. To have ID to be accepted as a valid theory perhaps the focus should not be to start teaching it in the secondary school system but to actually develop some college level research.

I do not think many people in the scientific community would have much of a problem with ID if 1. It did not seem to be a copout for not trying to understand the basis of life to a finer degree. (By stating that life is the way it is because of godhead makes the case an open/shut, this can be seen as a defense for the religious whose ideology has a detailed explanation for the origins of humanity.) 2. Provide a null hypothesis. (How can you show that ID is wrong when a trump of “the designer designed it that way” can always be played?) 3. Show an actual benefit of the ID hypothesis to the scientific community. (How exactly will this advance our understanding of the world around us? TOE allows us to accept that organisms will evolve over time and due to this we must anticipate these possible adaptations, say for example drug development or selective breeding of animals.)

I honestly can see how ID would be a godsend to people because it is easy to claim that the world is the way it is because god (designer) made it that way. It is quick, easy and leaves no uncertainty. However people with an explicit scientific understanding need to know how. How did this godhead arrive at the current diversity of the species? How did this godhead determine what the needs of each species would be in correlation with the environment? How did this godhead manipulate the species to arrive at its current form? These questions could be something that ID could research however for now it can only be speculation until some actual empirical data is presented.

That is the problem I have with ID, the lack of empirical data to show that it is true while evolution is false. There is no research to date that renders ID to be true and evolution to be false. Just because we do not yet have an understanding behind a mechanism in an organism does not render evolution false, just the need for more research. All too often the proponents of ID jump on information that may be in conflict of TOE but provide no evidence of how it shows ID to be true, just because TOE may be wrong does not make ID right by default, there needs to be evidence to the claims.

Understanding the basic premise of ID would be nice for people who are outside of this debate. From my understanding ID is about IC stating that due to IC it is not physically probable for something to evolve, by natural laws, to this current state and therefore must have been designed by some force. Correct me if I am wrong in my definition, simplified for clarity sake. Please keep in mind that my simplified definition does provide a null hypothesis in that if natural law is the force then the first part of the definition would be render null, therefore the hypothesis rendered null. Perhaps this is the direction ID research should be heading, to show explicitly that natural law can not explain an evolved form and to explicitly show how the evolved form came to be.


Dave, having no answers of course, threatens a banning.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,15:01   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 06 2007,12:25)
*Shimmy* G. Gordon Liddy, I mean, Scooter Libby convicted on all but one count! :)

Now he'll go to prison and write a pro-ID book just like Colson. :p

I was going to say that Scooter will now be getting it in the pooter, but alas at a federal lock up he'll simply work on his back hand (tennis) and as you say, write a pro-ID book.

Dubya will likely pardon him though.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,15:13   

Quote
Dubya will likely pardon him though.


If it saves us from another Colson, it won't be all bad.

Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
hooligans



Posts: 114
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,15:52   

A quick question for Gil- "Dodging the Question” that wasn't posted on UD. . . . You were talking about O’Leary’s comment regarding
“…the mathematical probabilities of Darwinism…”
You then stated that:
Quote
“They are nonexistent. I’ve blogged about this at UD, and this should be a complete no-brainer for anyone with a basic understanding of mathematical combinatorics. The improbabilities of the creative powers of Darwinian mechanisms are not just exponential in nature; the orders of magnitude compound exponentially.”

So how does this support ID? To calculate what you consider the improbablity of Darwinism, has no bearing on the validity of ID . . .. Right? Both Denyse and yourself are saying, “gee it couldn’t of happened this way, so lets just make up a story (ID) and say it happened that way.” Has anyone calculated the probability that an intelligent designer could intelligently design not only various species, but the entire universe? I don’t think so.

Another idiotic comment that goes uncontested at UD from Gil "Dodging the Question"

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,16:30   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 06 2007,12:09)
Comments...?


That woman on the right there looks and dresses exactly like Denyse.

I think you're onto something.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,17:01   

Say "enough," somebody.
 
Quote
Ugh, it feels like being back in Bible class.  ;)


IT SURE DOES! :p

BTW, Gil--what’s the mathematical probablility of being dealt any particular hand in poker? (Hint: pretty darn smaller than you'd think. And yet, poker exists.)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,17:35   

Quote (hooligans @ Mar. 06 2007,15:52)
A quick question for Gil- "Dodging the Question” that wasn't posted on UD. . . . You were talking about O’Leary’s comment regarding
“…the mathematical probabilities of Darwinism…”
You then stated that:
Quote
“They are nonexistent. I’ve blogged about this at UD, and this should be a complete no-brainer for anyone with a basic understanding of mathematical combinatorics. The improbabilities of the creative powers of Darwinian mechanisms are not just exponential in nature; the orders of magnitude compound exponentially.”

So how does this support ID? To calculate what you consider the improbablity of Darwinism, has no bearing on the validity of ID . . .. Right? Both Denyse and yourself are saying, “gee it couldn’t of happened this way, so lets just make up a story (ID) and say it happened that way.” Has anyone calculated the probability that an intelligent designer could intelligently design not only various species, but the entire universe? I don’t think so.

Another idiotic comment that goes uncontested at UD from Gil "Dodging the Question"

it would be an interesting project to determine/estimate how powerful god must be.  Only looking at his  surveillance abilities.  He is after all a "he sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake" kind of deity.  

So let's put aside his magical creative abilities and just determine how much memory it takes to be gawd.

World population in 2006 was about 6.5 billion.  Ok, since god knows/sees everything, that means he must have some sort of live feed mechanism.  6.5 billion video/audio feeds running 27/7/365.  According to scripture god doesn't forget anything so everything that happens must be archived (probably to tape for cost savings).

For starters, how much hard drive space are we talking to keep track of the thoughts, behaviours and begging (prayer and special requests) of 6.5 billion live, data sources?  Every single thought, gesture, and utterance gets recorded.

Can someone calculate that for me?  Maybe Dembski could whip up some celestial math for us to solve this riddle.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,17:40   

Tims's UD post reminds me, at one point last year Dave Heddle turned on Dembski. Said he was going to write a big explanation of where Dembski's math was in error. I went there a few times last year to look for that post, but all I saw was Jesus and NASCAR, and disliking both, didn't hang around. Does anybody here go to his site and know whether or not he wrote that essay?

   
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,17:43   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2007,15:40)
Tims's UD post reminds me, at one point last year Dave Heddle turned on Dembski. Said he was going to write a big explanation of where Dembski's math was in error. I went there a few times last year to look for that post, but all I saw was Jesus and NASCAR, and disliking both, didn't hang around. Does anybody here go to his site and know whether or not he wrote that essay?

I check it frequently enough to not miss much. I don't think he ever ended up writing the essay.

--------------
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,18:12   

Quote

I check it frequently enough to not miss much. I don't think he ever ended up writing the essay.


I can understand that. Dembski's hogwash was beaten to death years ago by Sober, Perakh, Wolpert, Wein, Elsberry, Young, Edis, Shallit, Musgrave, Stenger, Shalzi, etc etc etc. If someone asked me what was wrong with Dembski's 'work' I'd just give them a dozen links. No point arguing from scratch.

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,18:19   

Quote
DaveScot
03/06/2007  2:41 pm

...

Why should ID be held to a higher standard than RM+NS as a macroevolution mechanism? See here for details.

P.S. You need to start showing a greater understanding of what ID is or your time here is coming to a close.

Read this and let me know if there’s anything you don’t understand. The next comment where you present a strawman of ID will be your last.

Ignoranus.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,18:23   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 07 2007,01:01)
Say "enough," somebody.
 
Quote
Ugh, it feels like being back in Bible class.  ;)


IT SURE DOES! :p

BTW, Gil--what’s the mathematical probablility of being dealt any particular hand in poker? (Hint: pretty darn smaller than you'd think. And yet, poker exists.)

Gil_roadkill's ambition has overleaped his ability, on the bright side he's only trying to convince Dense.

It's like watching a catatonic zombie trying to sing.

Still he makes DT look like a high functioning gamma aphid.

Gill what are the odd's that if you throw 2 balls in the air, one won't come down? Fuckwit.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,18:27   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 06 2007,19:19)
Quote
DaveScot
03/06/2007  2:41 pm

...

Why should ID be held to a higher standard than RM+NS as a macroevolution mechanism? See here for details.

P.S. You need to start showing a greater understanding of what ID is or your time here is coming to a close.

Read this and let me know if there’s anything you don’t understand. The next comment where you present a strawman of ID will be your last.

Ignoranus.

LOL. Dave links poor Tims to a few hand wavy paragraphs about what ID is. Among other things, the link says

Quote
In a broader sense, Intelligent Design is simply the science of design detection — how to recognize patterns arranged by an intelligent cause for a purpose. Design detection is used in a number of scientific fields, including anthropology, forensic sciences that seek to explain the cause of events such as a death or fire, cryptanalysis and the search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI). An inference that certain biological information may be the product of an intelligent cause can be tested or evaluated in the same manner as scientists daily test for design in other sciences.


I'm reminded of what Sober and pals said in "How Not to Detect Design":

Quote
Dembski’s book is an attempt to clarify these ground rules. He proposes a procedure for
detecting design and discusses how it applies to a number of mundane and nontheological
examples, which more or less resemble Paley’s watch. Although the book takes no stand on
whether creationism is more or less plausible than evolutionary theory, Dembski’s epistemology
can be evaluated without knowing how he thinks it bears on this highly charged topic. In what
follows, we will show that Dembski’s account of design inference is deeply flawed. Sometimes he
is too hard on hypotheses of intelligent design; at other times he is too lenient. Neither
creationists nor evolutionists nor people who are trying to detect design in nontheological
contexts should adopt Dembski’s framework.


PDF here

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,18:53   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 06 2007,17:35)
Can someone calculate that for me?  Maybe Dembski could whip up some celestial math for us to solve this riddle.

Intercepted through National Special Intelligence means:

Per Mr. Herr Doctor Wilhelm Dembski:

Through perfectly obfuscatory mathamatical calculations, the answer you are looking for is exactly 666 SpringerBytes, where Springer Byte = 1n jello-like jounce of DaveScot's excess flab on a Precision Brand Stairmaster at a medium setting, and registering the Almighty Awesomest Power Of Gravity

The Master of Mathamatics Has Spoken.  fffffsssssttt.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,19:04   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2007,19:12)
Quote

I check it frequently enough to not miss much. I don't think he ever ended up writing the essay.


I can understand that. Dembski's hogwash was beaten to death years ago by Sober, Perakh, Wolpert, Wein, Elsberry, Young, Edis, Shallit, Musgrave, Stenger, Shalzi, etc etc etc. If someone asked me what was wrong with Dembski's 'work' I'd just give them a dozen links. No point arguing from scratch.

And yet, the only reason he is adding his two cents is probably because none of those others have done the trick in his estimation.  See, he has this totally awesome, cool way of finally showing us all where Dembski went wrong that no one has thought of before since no one before Heddle has been able to show where Dembski was wrong.  Or at least that's the impression I get.

Also, a few commenters there have asked multiple times when he is going to get around to his mathematical tour de force and he keeps dodging the question.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,19:22   

I don't know what he thinks of Dembski's other critics, so I can't judge that. But ####, you know, even if I were the very first person to have figured out that Dembski was full of it, I wouldn't write a deep essay about why, because I'd have to first read a whole bunch of Dembski, and after about two pages I'd be overwhelmed by the need to toss the book into a Troy-Bilt chipper/shredder. It's just awful writing. You can almost feel Dembski's desire to manipulate and decieve (and sound as high-falutin as possible).



"Hey Tony, can I borrow that when you're done? No Free Lunch is about to become New Tree Mulch."

   
heddle



Posts: 126
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,19:25   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2007,17:40)
Tims's UD post reminds me, at one point last year Dave Heddle turned on Dembski. Said he was going to write a big explanation of where Dembski's math was in error. I went there a few times last year to look for that post, but all I saw was Jesus and NASCAR, and disliking both, didn't hang around. Does anybody here go to his site and know whether or not he wrote that essay?

I have not written the essay.

What I did was a huge amount of research, (re)reading Dembski's books (no fun, I'll assure you) and searching for all existing criticisms. The bottom line, I'll readily admit, is I am not sure I can add anything new. There was much more already written than I was aware of. I might get around to it, but I'm in no hurry--I would actually prefer to write a book--a Christian/Scientist on why the ID movement has been a disaster--which would include a chapter that would amount to a review of the better criticisms aimed at Dembski's mathematics. However, the ID fifteen minutes seems to be just about used up--I doubt I could find a publisher. So maybe I'll write another novel instead. That's a lot more fun.

As for Jesus and NASCAR, how could you not like either of those related topics? If God didn't intend NASCAR, why did he give us Morgan Shepherd?


GCT,

 
Quote
And yet, the only reason he is adding his two cents is probably because none of those others have done the trick in his estimation.  See, he has this totally awesome, cool way of finally showing us all where Dembski went wrong that no one has thought of before since no one before Heddle has been able to show where Dembski was wrong.  Or at least that's the impression I get.

Also, a few commenters there have asked multiple times when he is going to get around to his mathematical tour de force and he keeps dodging the question.


As usual, you are less than truthful. I never once implied that I have some awesome new criticism--I would not have expected so since the problems are fairly evident and I am not even a mathematician.

And Choo-Choo asked me a few times (do you know of someone else? You implied multiple people have asked me about it.) about the Dembski critique, and I keep telling him I hadn't done it. How is that dodging?

BTW, It's funny that you flame me when I criticize PZ and his commenters--and yet you participate in this forum whose raison d'etre is to criticize someone (Dembski) and his commenters. (Oh, but that's different...)

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,19:27   

Quote
There was much more already written than I was aware of.


ya don't say?

oh, and while you're here, someone mentioned you quotemining one of my posts on pharyngula in your crusade against PZ.

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't do that.  I would have asked you directly at your blog, but since I consider your blog a waste of time, thanks for saving me the trouble.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,19:28   

Quote (GCT @ Mar. 07 2007,03:04)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2007,19:12)
Quote

I check it frequently enough to not miss much. I don't think he ever ended up writing the essay.


I can understand that. Dembski's hogwash was beaten to death years ago by Sober, Perakh, Wolpert, Wein, Elsberry, Young, Edis, Shallit, Musgrave, Stenger, Shalzi, etc etc etc. If someone asked me what was wrong with Dembski's 'work' I'd just give them a dozen links. No point arguing from scratch.

And yet, the only reason he is adding his two cents is probably because none of those others have done the trick in his estimation.  See, he has this totally awesome, cool way of finally showing us all where Dembski went wrong that no one has thought of before since no one before Heddle has been able to show where Dembski was wrong.  Or at least that's the impression I get.

Also, a few commenters there have asked multiple times when he is going to get around to his mathematical tour de force and he keeps dodging the question.

LOL ....Yeah knowing Mr "The answer to the question is 42*" Heddle's MO ........he's forgotten what the question was.

*The CC expressed in unitless Heddles.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,19:43   

Quote
I'm reminded of what Sober and pals said in "How Not to Detect Design":

I haven't read the whole PDF yet (I'm in class, on break, as we speak), but this reminds me of the debate between Dembski and Lee Silver. Dembski stressed the importance of his EF in this debate. In the Q&A, someone referred to Silver calling his remote PPT control as "intelligently designed" and went in for the kill: "And you made that inference without religion, Prof. Silver?" Silver admitted that he had, and I wished that I could have been there to riposte: "And did you need Dr. Dembski's EF to make that inference, Prof. Silver?"  :)

Ah, alternative universes.

I too find it difficult to read Dembski. I didn't nickname him Andre Breton for nothing - and Breton's much more fun to read. (Mad Love is great.) High-falutin' don't 'mpress this midwestern librarian, Bill. :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,20:04   

LOL.... Hey Heddle we're talking about you, not to you.

Geez he must have RSS set up with a Filter à la Clouser <snicker>

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,20:28   

Quote (heddle @ Mar. 06 2007,20:25)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2007,17:40)
Tims's UD post reminds me, at one point last year Dave Heddle turned on Dembski. Said he was going to write a big explanation of where Dembski's math was in error. I went there a few times last year to look for that post, but all I saw was Jesus and NASCAR, and disliking both, didn't hang around. Does anybody here go to his site and know whether or not he wrote that essay?

I have not written the essay.

What I did was a huge amount of research, (re)reading Dembski's books (no fun, I'll assure you) and searching for all existing criticisms. The bottom line, I'll readily admit, is I am not sure I can add anything new. There was much more already written than I was aware of. I might get around to it, but I'm in no hurry--I would actually prefer to write a book--a Christian/Scientist on why the ID movement has been a disaster--which would include a chapter that would amount to a review of the better criticisms aimed at Dembski's mathematics. However, the ID fifteen minutes seems to be just about used up--I doubt I could find a publisher. So maybe I'll write another novel instead. That's a lot more fun.

As for Jesus and NASCAR, how could you not like either of those related topics? If God didn't intend NASCAR, why did he give us Morgan Shepherd?

I think an essay along the lines of 'why ID damages christian belief' would be an interesting contribution to the literature. There's an extremely christian guy at PT (Henry Neufeld? Is that the guy?) who might have written a few things on the topic, but it's probably an underserved area. Maybe Ken Miller or someone has written about it. And you might have a chance at getting through to the people like Salvador, who refuse to deal with the fact that Dembski's wrong.

The only good thing about NASCAR is all the cool names. Sterling Marlin? Dick Trickle? Hut Stricklin? Pretty cool.

Stock car racing pisses me off. They aren't stock cars. Those headlights are painted on. etc. If they had a rule that you actually had to use a stock car, you had to drive the car off the dealer's lot and straight to the stadium, I'd watch the #### out of it. Let's see what Morgan Shepard can do with a 2007 Chevy Impala.



"Safety features? I don't know, Morgan. I think there's an airbag. Good luck!"

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,20:33   

Quote (heddle @ Mar. 06 2007,19:25)
why the ID movement has been a disaster

Because they lied to everyone -- including the judge --- about their aims, goals and motives . . . . ?

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,20:39   

Quote (heddle @ Mar. 06 2007,19:25)
However, the ID fifteen minutes seems to be just about used up--I doubt I could find a publisher.

Hey Heddle, I'd go with that "cosmological ID" thingie if I were you.  Some fundie publisher or another will pick it up.  Lots of money to be made by scamming the uneducated rubes, ya know.  Just ask Bill Dembski.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,20:43   

Quote (heddle @ Mar. 06 2007,19:25)
BTW, It's funny that you flame me when I criticize PZ and his commenters--and yet you participate in this forum whose raison d'etre is to criticize someone (Dembski) and his commenters. (Oh, but that's different...)

Hey Heddle, you, uh,  ***do***   know that me and Peez are really good buddies, right . . . . ?  Best of pals, ya know.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Steviepinhead



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,21:07   

HAR!

Now that was funny, Lenny!  

Not that I ever thought you weren't...

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,21:08   

Quote (heddle @ Mar. 06 2007,20:25)
As usual, you are less than truthful. I never once implied that I have some awesome new criticism--I would not have expected so since the problems are fairly evident and I am not even a mathematician.

And Choo-Choo asked me a few times (do you know of someone else? You implied multiple people have asked me about it.) about the Dembski critique, and I keep telling him I hadn't done it. How is that dodging?

BTW, It's funny that you flame me when I criticize PZ and his commenters--and yet you participate in this forum whose raison d'etre is to criticize someone (Dembski) and his commenters. (Oh, but that's different...)

As usual?  That's a load of crap.  You better back that shizz up.

You'll notice that I said it was my impression.  Multiple people pointed out that there were already numerous criticisms of Dembski out there and you seemed to blow them off.

I seem to recall other people than just Choo-Choo asking you, but I'm simply going off of memory, so I may be wrong, but does it really matter?  You were asked multiple times.

I "flame" you for your zealous, egotistical, infantile rantings about PZ and Dawkins and for your inability to understand what other people have posted.  If you can't see the difference then it just proves my point.

  
  29999 replies since Jan. 16 2006,11:43 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (1000) < ... 427 428 429 430 431 [432] 433 434 435 436 437 ... >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]