Kristine
Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006
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| Quote (guthrie @ April 21 2008,05:32) | Yes, I've just been over at the INtersection. I shall unashamedly post what I put there, because I think Chris and Randy are getting their knickers in a twist unnecessarily.
| Quote | I came over here from randy Olsons, and find Chris quoting this:
"It's sad to watch evolutionists swinging in the dark...let's go ahead and be honest here -- concede that these guys scored a major victory -- then figure out how to realistically deal with this communications failure rather than try to deny it happened."
It made no sense to me over there, and it still makes no sense to me here. The Creationists throw millions of dollars at a propaganda movie, make many slips, lie to people, get panned by the critics. This is all exactly as would be expected. It is entirely to be expected that they would attract a number of people who are committed Creationists to watch it.
So, there is no way for "Evolutionaists" to win here. The expelled liars are preaching to the converted. Randy is dead wrong here, and so is Chris- this is not a victory for the Creationists, unless you somehow think that us omnipotent Evolutionists should have been able to crush the film in a countrywide propaganda battle or prevent it from ever being screened in the first place. Which is patently impossible.
Instead, you could try thinking of it as another church sermon. And on that metric, it hasn't even lived up to the claims of its backers.
Let me repeat this in a different way- there is no communications failure here, because the Creationists are living in a hermetically sealed bubble- there was no way in which you could rationally have expected to have any "victory" over this film in the short term, i.e. in terms of people going to see it. If anyone did expect any different, please let me know.
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I don't know what Randy or Chris expect.
As always, truth is multi-faceted. If you look at their goal of 2-3 million, then yes, Expelled is a success. Ditto for the "political documentary" category, a small niche of less than 100 films. Critically, and in real numbers, the film is a stinkeroo.
I don't think Stein is going to benefit from this project and I stand by my "box office poison" statement. This film is marred by too many scandals and headaches for the typical studio to want to employ Stein again.
But who knows? Creationism sells in America. Everyone knows that. So what do Chris and Randy want to do about that? I debated my father for years and nothing was going to change his mind. What do they suggest, then? All I read is criticisms from them.
Wintermute hit the nail on the head: | Quote | | If all publicity is good publicity, and PZ and Dawkins are only promoting Expelled, shouldn't we be thanking Ben Stein for doing so much to promote evolution? Shouldn't we be glad that they are spreading the word so far and wide? |
I have this weird sense of relief that Expelled got made, especially with its attendant scandals and hypocrisy. The fight isn't over, but somebody sure ain't taking the high road.
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AtBC Poet Laureate
"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive
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