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  Topic: AF Dave's UPDATED Creator God Hypothesis, Creation/Evolution Debate< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,11:31   

This can't be true:
Quote
Deep ice cores from Antarctica reveal there is more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere today than at any time in the last 800,000 years.

The data comes from analysis of tiny air bubbles buried 3.2km down in the Antarctic ice sheets. These provide a record of the ancient atmosphere and give insight into how climate was affected by CO2 levels in the past.

…because how could Antarctic ice cores be 800,000 years old? The can't possibly be more than 6,000 years old, and more likely they'd have to be 4,500 years old, unless Dave's "global catastrophic flood" managed to cover the Antarctic ice sheet with a mile-thick layer of water without melting most of it.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
tiredofthesos



Posts: 59
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,11:56   

Ok, so it's been something like 30 pages (I ain't a goin' back and searching!;) since I thanked the various people who used AF "Sergeant Schultz" Dave's nose as the tee for some very interesting shots about (especially) geology and dating methods.  I pointed out then that no possible lurker could gain more by watching you trying to point out to Dave that he was trying to sell a very dead parrot indeed (how unbelievably apt that sketch matches Dave's arguments here!  If only he would end it by asking you to "come over to his place") but you've all kept bloody on and on.

 Well, that's all of your business, but could I suggest that the thread be renamed to reflect the fact that Dave has no "Creator God Hypothesissy-thingy" any longer?  Could the creative minds wasting their time (<-- opinion) presenting evidence to Mr. Whacky-a-Mole spend a few minutes and think of a title that would really reflect the content of this tread?

 For you, Dave, I will quote the radar technician from Airplane: He's all over the place! 900 feet to 1300 feet!! What an a$$hole!!!

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,12:13   

Quote (tiredofthesos @ Sep. 05 2006,16:56)
Could the creative minds wasting their time (<-- opinion) presenting evidence to Mr. Whacky-a-Mole spend a few minutes and think of a title that would really reflect the content of this tread?

How about "AF Dave's OUTDATED Miserably Ineffectual Attempts to Refute Essentially All of Science Without Presenting Even the Bare Outlines of Evidence For A Young-Earth Hypothesis"?

Granted, it doesn't have much of a ring to it...

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Bing



Posts: 144
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,12:21   

Quote (Diogenes @ Sep. 05 2006,16:13)
What's your explanation why the Jewish tradition has always stated that Moses wrote the Torah?

*bzzzzzzz*  I'll take DaveTard rewrites Genesis for 100 Alex.

What is "The Jews were wrong, wrong on tradition, wrong about Genesis, wrong about Jesus, just plain wrong".

  
stevestory



Posts: 10391
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,12:29   

Quote (jeannot @ Sep. 05 2006,16:16)
Since AFDave won't do his homework, are there any volunteers willing to formulate a detailed hypothesis of the flood for him? It could be quite fun to match the current observations (see my theory of spacetime distortion for the age of the Atlantic basalts). :D

I anticipate the parts: "Noah actually had a Heavenly Shrinker, allowing him to carry millions of animals in his Arch".
"Whilst continents were moving at 100 miles per hour..."
"mammals were better swimmers than dinosaurs, and go burried after. Ichtyosaurs actually had difficulties because of their thick bones that made them sink, in this low-density fresh water. The stupid pterosaurs were caught by the Flood while fishing, but the more intelligent birds managed to survive a little longer..."
and "just after the Arch landed and the water evaporated [...] limestones were solidifying, dinosaurs were fossilising, and thousand of african swallows sent by noah, carrying sequoia seeds to repopulate the californian forrest that has been devastated".

Maybe god gave Noah a Stargate. He sent all the animals to Atlantis for the duration.



Oglethorp: We have successfully traveled beyond and across both space and time through the Fargate. To get free cable!


Emory: I think it's a Stargate?


Oglethorp: It's the Fargate! "F"! It's different from that movie, which I have never seen, so how would I copy it?


Emory: Chill, man. It's alright. Let's just turn it on.


Oglethorp: I just want to make sure that we are clear it's the Fargate. "Goes far." Get it? And there is no way it came from that movie or that syndicated series based on the movie.


Emory: But it sure was a good movie.


Oglethorp: Ya, yes it was. Turn on the TV, maybe it's on!

   
stevestory



Posts: 10391
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,12:44   

Quote (tiredofthesos @ Sep. 05 2006,17:56)
Ok, so it's been something like 30 pages (I ain't a goin' back and searching!;) since I thanked the various people who used AF "Sergeant Schultz" Dave's nose as the tee for some very interesting shots about (especially) geology and dating methods.  I pointed out then that no possible lurker could gain more by watching you trying to point out to Dave that he was trying to sell a very dead parrot indeed (how unbelievably apt that sketch matches Dave's arguments here!  If only he would end it by asking you to "come over to his place") but you've all kept bloody on and on.

 Well, that's all of your business, but could I suggest that the thread be renamed to reflect the fact that Dave has no "Creator God Hypothesissy-thingy" any longer?  Could the creative minds wasting their time (<-- opinion) presenting evidence to Mr. Whacky-a-Mole spend a few minutes and think of a title that would really reflect the content of this tread?

 For you, Dave, I will quote the radar technician from Airplane: He's all over the place! 900 feet to 1300 feet!! What an a$$hole!!!

I have amused myself by thinking up alternate, accurate thread titles for both AFDave and Ghosty. In the end, I reject changing them for the same reason I reject inserting stupid boldface comments into someone else's comment. Since reality is already biased against the AFDaves, Ghostys, Heddles, Cordovas, why create an unfair playing field? Their humiliation derives from their content, and does not depend on our wily tricks.

(That doesn't mean we can't have a great time thinking up such alternate titles, it just means I won't implement them)

I doubt there's anything you'd reject inserting, homo. -st

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,14:26   

"AF Dave's Guide to Child Manipulation"

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
clamboy



Posts: 220
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,14:32   

I see that noone has seen fit to add *my* question to "The Boffo List o' Questions afdave Goes 'Duuuuhhhhhhh....' Over":

W H E R E DID ALL THOSE DANG BEETLE SPECIES COME FROM? W H E N C E CAME THE MULTITUDINOUS SPECIES O' BEETLE? 5! 5! 5! F-I-V-E DAYS PER SPECIE SINCE THE TIME O' TH' ARK, OR WHATEVER THAT NUMBER WAS THAT WAS CLOSE TO F-I-V-E DAYS!!!

<Mr. Burns voice>There really are a lot of beetle species on the earth, you know.</Mr. Burns voice>

  
stevestory



Posts: 10391
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,14:33   

Davey Potter and the Thousand-Yard Stare

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,14:34   

"AF Dave's Do-It-Yourself Guide to Making Zombies"
"How to Ruin Your Child's College Admission"
"Bible Interpretation for Fun and Profit"

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
stevestory



Posts: 10391
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,14:44   

Less Than a Feeling

So many critters,
have come and gone
fossils fade as the years go by
my conclusions are still, as I battle on
as clear as the sun in the summer sky

It's less than a feeling,
when I dismiss that Argon decay
I think they're dreaming
but their papers cause me some dismay
...

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,15:39   

... I feel my very brains walkin' away...

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
stevestory



Posts: 10391
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,15:41   

LOL

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,15:45   

seriously, it's so easy to make fun of o'l target drone dave, but... uh...

where was i going with that now?

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
eTourist



Posts: 2
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,16:31   

How about "An Idiots Guide to Using Biblical Scholarship in Scientific Debates"?

  
Seven Popes



Posts: 190
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,16:55   

Clamboy, I understand your point, but the beetle species numbers can be easily shrugged at by uninitiated.  What brought the bizarrely brief time alloted by the YEC'ers into sharp focus for me was the post that there would have to be bred a new species of primate every seven years.  That's a lot of smokin' hot monkey lovin'.  You can't ignore that level of incense burning, Barry White listening, no-holds-barred cross species swinging.

--------------
Cave ab homine unius libri - Beware of anyone who has just one book.

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,17:12   

"Dr. AFDave, Or How I Learned to Stop Thinking and Loved the Bible"?

Naaah, probably been done before.


(I can imagine dave riding the K-Ag Bomb, though  :p  )

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,17:53   

Oh man... eric, I just had the time to read that "fossilized wood" story, and it's amazing! Like reading about all those old scams with 'evidence' for ancient astronauts and UFO's and Lemuria and whatever!
An "independent researcher" finds a piece of wood inside a rock, and immediately calls Answers in Genesis? HAH!
AiG sends a part of the sample saying it's supposed to be fossilized, and that part is soft and fluffy? And Walker (boy, that guy sure is something...) essentially says "well, it was a really small sample, so you can't say what it is at all... But trust us"? HAH!
The Geochron guy offers to provide a part of the sample for testing and, instead of gladly agreeing, since then the Truth of the Lord would shine upon all...
...Walker starts to foam in the mouth saying this is ...unethical? and it betrays client trust? WTF? And then he says they would give a part of the sample, IF a common testing procedure is agreed upon, and a comittee approved by ALL would evaluate the results and blahblahblah... Boy, they're reeealy sure they're on the side of Truth! HAH!
Heh, I can imagine all the warnings and threats of legal action Geochron received from AiG after that... Privately, of course. :)

And you know, if I didn't know better, after looking at the photo of the sample, where it appears like someone shoved a splinter into a crack, I'd be almost certain this was a parody...
But I guess everything about YEC is, in a way.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,17:58   

For some extra fun with Walker the Wonder Engineer, google what he has to say about the Flud and the location of Eden...

...And then read what the Bible has to say. :)

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,18:02   

Quote (Faid @ Sep. 05 2006,22:53)
Oh man... eric, I just had the time to read that "fossilized wood" story, and it's amazing! Like reading about all those old scams with 'evidence' for ancient astronauts and UFO's and Lemuria and whatever!

I like how Walker says the wood, or splinter, or whatever it was, was above the water table the whole time, so it couldn't have been contaminated by environmental carbon, forgetting that if it never had been exposed to groundwater, it could never have fossilized in the first place.

Who was it who said that with practice she could believe six impossible things before breakfast?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Crabby Appleton



Posts: 250
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,20:45   

Quote (JonF @ Sep. 05 2006,15:30)
Quote (afdave @ Sep. 05 2006,10:35)
JonF is still yelling "Fraud, fraud" while failing to see how completely irrelevant and silly his fraud claim is.  But alas ... what's a Darwinist to do?  Honest dealing with facts is impossible for many of them ... so that leaves goofy techniques such as yelling "Fraud" just for the fun of it.

Actually, and incredibly, Dave has somewhat of a point; there's more to the paper than Snelling's fraud.  But not much more ... I'm going to reproduce the entire conclusions section so everyone can see exactly how bizarre it is:
   
Quote
The Rb-Sr, Sm-Nd and Pb-Pb radioisotopic ratios in these samples of the recent (1949-1975) andesite lava flows at Mt Ngauruhoe, New Zealand, as anticipated, do not yield any meaningful "age"; information, even with selective manipulation of the data. Instead, these data provide evidence of the mantle source of the lavas, of magma genesis, and of crustal contamination of the parental basalt magmas. Subduction of the Pacific Plate beneath the Taupo Volcanic Arc has carried trench sediments with it -- sediments identical in composition to the Torlesse metasediment basement underlying, and outcropping adjacent to, these volcanoes. Scraped off the subducting slab, the sediments have contaminated the basalt magmas generated by partial melting of the peridotitic mantle wedge at the mantle-slab interface. The resultant andesite magmas rose in the melt column through the mantle wedge, and then ascended through fracture conduits in the overlying crust into magma chambers below the volcanoes that erupted when full.

The Sr-Nd-Pb radioisotopic systematics are thus characteristic of the depleted mantle source, modified by mixing with the crustal contaminant. Variations in the depleted mantle Nd "model ages", which range from 724.5 to 1453.3 Ma, and which are meaningless in this recent (even in conventional terms) tectonic and petrogenetic framework, and the Pb isotopic linear arrays, indicate geochemical heterogeneity in the mantle wedge. Thus the radioisotopic ratios in these recent Ngauruhoe andesite lava flows were inherited from both the peridotitic mantle wedge and the subducted trench sediments, and are fundamental characteristics of their geochemistry. They therefore only reflect the origin and history of the mantle and crustal sources from which the magma was generated, and therefore have no age significance.

By implication, the radioisotopic ratios in ancient lavas found throughout the geologic record are likely fundamental characteristics of their geochemistry. They therefore probably only reflect the magmatic origin of the lavas from mantle and crustal sources, and any history of mixing or contamination in their petrogenesis, rather than any valid age information. Even though radioisotopic decay has undoubtedly occurred during the earth's history, conventional radioisotopic dating of these rocks therefore does not necessarily provide valid absolute "ages" for them. This is especially so if accelerated nuclear decay accompanied the catastrophic operation of those geologic and tectonic processes responsible for the mixing of the radioisotopic decay products during magma genesis.

Now, we know that Davie-doodles (the one in the corner with the dunce cap) can't see how incredibly disjointed this is, but can anyone else in the class see it?  Anyone?  OK, you in the back with your hand up, Maurice?

...

Absolutely correct, Maurice!  The last paragraph is not supported by the data and discussions in the paper.  It's actually even worse than that; the last paragraph, claiming that all radiometric dating is wrong, has absolutely  no relationship to the rest of the paper!.  Here, I'll summarize the paper on the blackboard so we can all see the disconnect:

  • A K-Ar dating test on samples known to be invalid produced incorrect results.  Duh.  Fraud.
  • Isochron analyses produced no valid age and the data clearly and objectively indicated that no valid age could be obtained.
  • Nd model age calculations are also meaningless since the data clearly and objectively indicates that the samples contain Nd derived from other sources than in-situ radioactive decay.
  • Analyses of isotope concentrations produced results consistent with those of nearby volcanoes.
  • The isotope concentrations are also consistent with mainstream theories of mantle-generated lava and subduction of plates.
  • The existing isotopic profiles of this young lava are inherited from the parent lava. (Since it's too young to have developed an age-determining isotopic profile -- jonf)
  • Therefore all isotopic profiles are inherited from the parent lava and all radiometric dating is wrong.


Yes, Sarah?

...

True, Sarah, it's difficult to see how anyone could fall for that, but they do.  Af "sedimentary tuffs" dave swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.  The major problem is that they don't understand how age-diagnostic radiometric methods work (although Snelling does, and knows that his last paragraph is bovine excrement).  The secondary problem is that they immediately and unquestioningly accept anything that agrees with their preconceptions; they can't handle the easy questions, much less the tough ones.  Sad, really, and kind of pathetic.

Got dang it Jon I had my hand up but you completely ignored me (no doubt because I'm a member of of devolved race).

The last paragraph MAKES EVERYTHING CLEAR WITH THIS STATEMENT!

Quote
Even though radioisotopic decay has undoubtedly occurred during the earth's history, conventional radioisotopic dating of these rocks therefore does not necessarily provide valid absolute "ages" for them. This is especially so if accelerated nuclear decay accompanied the catastrophic operation of those geologic and tectonic processes responsible for the mixing of the radioisotopic decay products during magma genesis.


Those continents whizzing around at great speeds obviously sped up nucular decay at the same time. How much clearer can it be?

We can trust the Naval Observatory Clock nowadays but obviously there was something going on 6000 YA to mess things up. I ain't saying goddidit but SOMEBODY did.

Now please kindly stop trying to indoctrinate me and mine into the cult of IT'SOLDERTHANMYFEEBLEBRAINCANCOMPREHENDISM

Thanks and have a nice day!

  
Crabby Appleton



Posts: 250
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2006,21:16   

One more problem for DDTTD and his ilk (he likes to use ilk so I will too), peat above lignite above bituminous above anthracite.

I won't apologise for using fossils to date sedimentary layers, there aren't any angiosperm fossils found in deposits older than the late Cretaceous.

Why DDTTD? Can you (or your nose wiggling magi) discern the difference between pollen and spores?

The grill is hot and a couple of teriyaki whistlepigs are on their way, anybody hungry?

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,01:13   

Well this is news to me .....Moses could write?

What alphabet?

AND speaking of alphabets, which one did the lies4kids AFD's scribes use?

Any info on the language.....Portuguese by any chance?

Bwhahahahahahahaha

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
tiredofthesos



Posts: 59
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,01:54   

Thank Steve et al. for your suggestions.  I'll check back in another 30+ pages to see if I missed something interestingly accidently jarred loose by the clunking idiocy of the wretched, soulless lying jerk that began it all.
 I thank him not at all.

  
Ved



Posts: 398
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,03:46   

Quote (afdave @ Sep. 01 2006,13:43)
I could spend a lot of time on the details of the geologic record, and I have done so and plan to more for various reason (I like it and so on).

You only "like" the details in that you like battling it out with the Evos. You're not interested in learning what those details tell us about the universe.

Quote (afdave continues @ ,)
What I see though is that the biggest evidence for a global flood doesn't even require reading a single scientific paper.  It doesn't require a geology degree.  It doesn't even require any high school level science classes at all.

Dave, to see your "biggest evidence for a global flood", you absolutely must avoid all those things.

Quote (afdave continues @ ,)
Guys, I don't know how to say this any more clearly.  We have something like 2 miles thick (maybe I'm off a mile or two--doesn't matter for my present point) of mostly water-laid sediment on planet earth!!  All you have to do is look at the abundant pictures of the Grand Canyon or any other exposed area.  The evidence is there.  There was a whale of a lot of water required to lay down all that sedimentary rocks, friends!

Yeah. 3/4 of the Earth's surface covered by water multiplied by 4 billion years is way big enough to be that whale.

Quote
Now HOW exactly did it happen?  OK ... now we need to do some scientific work and write some papers.  I agree.  But to show it DID OCCUR?  No scientific papers required, friend.

We know all that rock is there, All-Caps.

Quote
All that's required is some eyeballs and some functioning synapses.

... and for those eyeballs and synapses to be buried in the bible.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,05:21   

Quote
Alice laughed, "There's no use trying," she said, "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

Pah, the Red Queen was an amateur compared to AirPantyQueen.

The Gospel of St. Alice of Wonderland does offer an explanation of AirHead's odd thinking as well:  
Quote
"That's the effect of living backwards," the Queen said kindly: "it always makes one a little giddy ..."
Thus proving the wisdom of scripture.

On a wishful note: If AirHead is exploring a cave...where are the Mole People when you *need* them?

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Ved



Posts: 398
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,05:23   

Everyone knows a god is measured by the size of his *ahem* universe. Dave's god has a tiny, flaccid, and boring member. And he's mean. Made in the image of some very ugly people.

  
JonF



Posts: 632
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,05:57   

[quote=Crabby Appleton,Sep. 06 2006,01:45]
Quote (JonF @ Sep. 05 2006,15:30)

Got dang it Jon I had my hand up but you completely ignored me (no doubt because I'm a member of of devolved race).

The last paragraph MAKES EVERYTHING CLEAR WITH THIS STATEMENT!

 
Quote
Even though radioisotopic decay has undoubtedly occurred during the earth's history, conventional radioisotopic dating of these rocks therefore does not necessarily provide valid absolute "ages" for them. This is especially so if accelerated nuclear decay accompanied the catastrophic operation of those geologic and tectonic processes responsible for the mixing of the radioisotopic decay products during magma genesis.

Of course, one of the many things that immediately and easily falsifies Snelling's claim that "[the radioisotopic ratios] therefore probably only reflect the magmatic origin of the lavas from mantle and crustal sources, and any history of mixing or contamination in their petrogenesis, rather than any valid age information" is zircons; their radioisotopic ratios (which are measured in the most widely used method of radiometric dating) reflect only radioactive decay after solidification because zircons so strongly reject lead at solidification, a fact acknowledged by Humphreys et. al. (and the et. al. includes Snelling) in an excerpt I've posted several times already in this thread.  But af "scientists date only igneous grains" dave is following the creationist maxim of "never, ever, look at the big picture or relationships between things; consider each item as a totally new item and consider it only in isolation".

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,07:23   

DaveyDH,

Core samples from various annually marked things correspond and count up to more that 6500 years.

DaveyDH, figure out why the Dansgaard-Oeschger oscillations are calibrated the way they are. They are the ice record of the temperature fluctuations during the last ice age. We don't need to go back any farther than that to blow, BLOW your theory. Right?

So here is your challenge:
1) Figure out how the ice cores (just to the D-O oscillations) are calibrated. (Hint: use the oscillations in your research)
2) Figure out what a real scientist's objections to the following from AIG might be:

 
Quote
On the other hand, if the ice built up rapidly, as in the creationist model during the Ice Age, the annual layers would be very thick at the bottom and thin upward to the present average annual layer thickness. There would be some compression of ice during this short time, of course, but far less than the uniformitarian model suggests.2 Figure 12.4 shows these contrasting views of the annual layer thickness with depth.

The assumed thickness of the annual layers is important because it constrains the expected annual thickness in the measurements. The measurements can deviate a little from the assumed annual layer thickness but not by much. For instance, in the oxygen isotope method, uniformitarian scientists normally need eight measurements per annual cycle to pick up the “annual” signature. As an example, halfway down the GRIP Greenland ice core at about one mile (1,600 m) deep, uniformitarian scientists believe the annual layer thickness is 4 inches (10 cm).5 The measurements for oxygen isotopes would then be spaced every 1/2 inch (1 cm) apart.
Figure 12.4


Figure 12.4. The thickness of annual ice layers down the GRIP ice core on central Greenland, calculated according to the uniformitarian3 and creationist4 models.

Since the creationist model postulates an annual layer thickness significantly thicker, say 12 inches (30 cm) as an example, the uniformitarians have taken more measurements than needed and are, therefore, measuring multiple cycles of oxygen isotopes within one year. This is how the number of annual layers becomes greatly exaggerated.6, 7

As already stated, the uniformitarian and creationist estimates of annual thickness are much the same at the top of the Greenland ice sheet. The difference between the two models becomes more and more significant deeper in the ice core. Because of extreme annual layer thinning at the bottom of the core in the uniformitarian model compared to the creationist model, the uniformitarian scientists may be counting 100 layers that they think are annual. These layers in the creationist model may represent only one year.


(Hint: You could probably do this using only logic but don't worry, I don't expect that of you)

And DaveyDH, what would happen if you discovered that you were wrong? You know, the only evidence that you have that the bible was written by god is that someone told you it was. No evidence was ever given.

Well, I am like that too except I'm saying you are betting on a lame horse and I have evidence.

By the way, I'm laying a trap here. Just so you know.

But if you are right and the rest of the world is wrong, then I'll be the one trapped. And, if you can show me, through evidence, that this AIG article is a better interpretation of the data and the science of core samples is a worse interpretation of the data, I'll repent. And I'll go to a church service of the demonination of your choice. And I'll report back.

I suspect you will end up simply saying "I proved it" by pointing to the AIG article. That probably won't work. Just to let you know ahead of time.

Good Luck! May the best Tard win.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2006,10:55   

Quote
On a wishful note: If AirHead is exploring a cave...where are the Mole People when you *need* them?


signs all point to them being eaten by crab people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_races_in_South_Park

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
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