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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,13:06   

Garbled message on intelligent design, but another bad review:
Quote
I went into Expelled with an attitude that a certain ex-girlfriend of mine would have called condescending. The prospect of a pro-Intelligent Design documentary sounded so batsh*t crazy, it had to be awesome, watching intellectuals spin a story about how they're persecuted for their beliefs. Not to say I didn't give it a fair chance, but they made it really easy for me..

The film opens with shots of oppression, from the construction of the Berlin Wall, Eastern European politicians, guillotines and gangsters. That's the Triumph of the Will technique right there. They even get Planet of the Apes in there at one point. When the gunslinger speaks in a grizzled dubbed voice, "Creationists," it's outrageous.

Ben Stein's point of view is not a religious one. It's about freedom, so that's hopeful. Of course people should have the freedom to explore any belief. You can instantly feel his bias though. He plays devil's advocate with total insincerity, blatantly leading his interviews. My issue is not with a documentarian leading interviews, it is the blatant part.

First of all, I would have gone to greater lengths to verify the reasons for Richard Sternberg's firing. Someone suggests there's more to it than a single paper mentioning Intelligent Design, but they are dismissed. For another terminated professor, they do include some soundbites from her superior.

Stein tries to be Michael Moore, staging an difficult search for the Discovery Institute to demonstrate how minimized it is. Is a shot of Stein scratching his back supposed to be humor? There's even a Bowling for Columbine style animated segment, which is a total agenda piece and it just feels like an A-hole bully.


--------------
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AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

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carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,13:34   

SExpelled!!

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1030
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:20   

I think I'll archive this exchange here, as Kevin has changed the record before.  The first part is Kevin's post (at the time of this writing, on the first page and near the top):

Quote
Is Expelled too nice?

That's what Greg Wright concludes in his review of the film over at Past the Popcorn.


[Now my comments]

Quote
That was a hideous quotemine, Kevin. Here's what he really wrote:

 
Quote
But if they are—and I stress, if they are, and they might be—Expelled simply plays too nice to catch them red-handed.


He seems to know about as little about these things as you do, Kevin, but at least he's cautious, and stresses the "if".

You simply quotemine the "if" out, and thereby egregiously misrepresent him. But I guess "Expelled" and its promotion have prepared us for these run-of-the-mill prevarications.


Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10759
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:22   

Who  says this:

Quote
[edit] A Christian perspective
It is nevertheless clear to thinking Christians that Intelligent design is simply an attempt to force an impossible marriage between Biblical Truth and atheistic Science, and as such Intelligent Design and Darwinism are equally wrong


?

Clicky for answer!

--------------
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"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
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JohnW



Posts: 2802
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:28   

Expelled down to 7% now.  Going down faster than Louis in the men's bogs at Twickenham.

Another kicking, from E! Online.  The reviewer has taken the claim of scientists being fired for questioning evolution at face value, but still:
Quote
Despite insisting "intelligent design" isn't pro-God propaganda, Stein argues we're waging a religious war (cut to cannon fire) with Darwinists smiting the faithful with—gasp!—atheistic ideas. Most outrageously, he plays the overused Nazi card—he tours an old concentration camp and notes Hitler himself was influenced by Darwin. Yes, kids, studying evolution leads to this (cut to dead prisoners).


--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
BCtheEra



Posts: 18
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:29   

6% and falling...

  
caerbannog



Posts: 12
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:33   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 18 2008,12:52)
Quote (improvius @ April 18 2008,06:19)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 17 2008,16:25)
 
Quote (improvius @ April 17 2008,06:57)
Reviews are starting to roll in now.  Current Tomatometer rating: 11% and falling.

Down to 9%.

8%

7%

Missed it by >< that much

6%

(Still "running the table" with the "top critics", at 0%)

  
Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:38   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ April 18 2008,14:20)
I think I'll archive this exchange here, as Kevin has changed the record before.  The first part is Kevin's post (at the time of this writing, on the first page and near the top):

 
Quote
Is Expelled too nice?

That's what Greg Wright concludes in his review of the film over at Past the Popcorn.


[Now my comments]

 
Quote
That was a hideous quotemine, Kevin. Here's what he really wrote:

 
Quote
But if they are—and I stress, if they are, and they might be—Expelled simply plays too nice to catch them red-handed.


He seems to know about as little about these things as you do, Kevin, but at least he's cautious, and stresses the "if".

You simply quotemine the "if" out, and thereby egregiously misrepresent him. But I guess "Expelled" and its promotion have prepared us for these run-of-the-mill prevarications.


Glen D

I actually have to disagree here. The truth of the statement 'Expelled is too nice' does not depend on the truth or falsity of the if.

  
JohnW



Posts: 2802
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:42   

I clicked on the Rotten Tomatoes solitary decent review.  There's some good stuff in there too:
Quote
The subject of intelligent design is one that has sparked a lot of controversy and hopefully, this review won't bring out the loonies on either side of the debate, because personally, I don't feel like religion and faith is something that can or should be argued or debated on the internet, or anywhere else for that matter.

(my emphasis)

All Science So Far!

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:51   

Quote (caerbannog @ April 18 2008,15:33)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 18 2008,12:52)
Quote (improvius @ April 18 2008,06:19)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 17 2008,16:25)
   
Quote (improvius @ April 17 2008,06:57)
Reviews are starting to roll in now.  Current Tomatometer rating: 11% and falling.

Down to 9%.

8%

7%

Missed it by >< that much

6%

(Still "running the table" with the "top critics", at 0%)

5%

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
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(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,14:58   

TV Guide:  
Quote
"What's so insulting? Perhaps it's the way the film skews its perspective to the point where evolutionary theory is made to appear old-school, reactionary and intolerant of such innovative ideas as Creationism, a line of inquiry roughly as fresh and cutting-edge as the Holy Bible's Book of Genesis. Or maybe it's the way a flag-waving Stein casts responsible attempts to keep faith-based belief outside the realm of empirical science as a violation of free speech and a threat to our American way of life, likening conditions in this "scientific gulag" to life in East Berlin (the film makes ample use of Cold War-era newsreel, kitschy social engineering films from the '50s and footage of Stalin). Or maybe it's the way in which the lack of evidence supporting "I.D." is glossed over in favor of a one-sided attack on Darwinism's "failings," like evolutionary theory's inability to provide a simplistic answer to the huge question of how life was first created. Perhaps the real insult comes from the cloying sympathy heard in Stein's voice as he interviews those brave Darwin-doubters who sacrificed to what he characterizes as a vast, anti-I.D. conspiracy involving the Academy, the media and the courts, the undisguised sneer with which he dismisses speculative evolutionary theories as "science fiction," and the tone with which he poses loaded, ridiculous questions to the likes of Oxford biologist and pop-atheist Richard Dawkins."


My bold.

Edited by Lou FCD on April 18 2008,16:02

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,15:07   

Quote (carlsonjok @ April 18 2008,11:34)
SExpelled!!

'Sexpelled' now comes up second in Google searches of the word 'expelled'. :O

'Expelled Exposed' is now below the fold at #10.  :angry:

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
caerbannog



Posts: 12
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,15:10   

Quote (Lou FCD @ April 18 2008,14:51)
Quote (caerbannog @ April 18 2008,15:33)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 18 2008,12:52)
 
Quote (improvius @ April 18 2008,06:19)
   
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 17 2008,16:25)
   
Quote (improvius @ April 17 2008,06:57)
Reviews are starting to roll in now.  Current Tomatometer rating: 11% and falling.

Down to 9%.

8%

7%

Missed it by >< that much

6%

(Still "running the table" with the "top critics", at 0%)

5%

Next stop: Battlefield Earth at 3%

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,15:13   

As I read these reviews of Expelled! I am struck by one commonality with "The Passion of the Christ":

Excoriation.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1030
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,15:20   

Quote (Venus Mousetrap @ April 18 2008,14:38)
Quote (Glen Davidson @ April 18 2008,14:20)
I think I'll archive this exchange here, as Kevin has changed the record before.  The first part is Kevin's post (at the time of this writing, on the first page and near the top):

 
Quote
Is Expelled too nice?

That's what Greg Wright concludes in his review of the film over at Past the Popcorn.


[Now my comments]

 
Quote
That was a hideous quotemine, Kevin. Here's what he really wrote:

   
Quote
But if they are—and I stress, if they are, and they might be—Expelled simply plays too nice to catch them red-handed.


He seems to know about as little about these things as you do, Kevin, but at least he's cautious, and stresses the "if".

You simply quotemine the "if" out, and thereby egregiously misrepresent him. But I guess "Expelled" and its promotion have prepared us for these run-of-the-mill prevarications.


Glen D

I actually have to disagree here. The truth of the statement 'Expelled is too nice' does not depend on the truth or falsity of the if.

And what is it about conditionals that you do not understand?

Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,15:36   

Quote
A brand-new feature there: the "Set Ben Straight" contest. In promoting the creationist propaganda film Expelled, Ben Stein managed to stick his foot in his mouth over and over again, issuing what seemed to be a ceaseless stream of ignorant, offensive, and just plain daffy claims. Here's your chance to set Ben straight. Send your favorite claim with a short, well-documented, and well-reasoned refutation. We'll post the best for all the world to see. And five lucky entrants will receive a year's subscription to Reports of the NCSE along with their choice of a book from NCSE's shelf. But you only have ten days, and a wealth of silliness to examine, so act now! Full contest details are available on the ExpelledExposed website.


From the NCSE's website, an article about ExpelledExposed.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,15:40   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ April 18 2008,15:20)
Quote (Venus Mousetrap @ April 18 2008,14:38)
Quote (Glen Davidson @ April 18 2008,14:20)
I think I'll archive this exchange here, as Kevin has changed the record before.  The first part is Kevin's post (at the time of this writing, on the first page and near the top):

   
Quote
Is Expelled too nice?

That's what Greg Wright concludes in his review of the film over at Past the Popcorn.


[Now my comments]

   
Quote
That was a hideous quotemine, Kevin. Here's what he really wrote:

   
Quote
But if they are—and I stress, if they are, and they might be—Expelled simply plays too nice to catch them red-handed.


He seems to know about as little about these things as you do, Kevin, but at least he's cautious, and stresses the "if".

You simply quotemine the "if" out, and thereby egregiously misrepresent him. But I guess "Expelled" and its promotion have prepared us for these run-of-the-mill prevarications.


Glen D

I actually have to disagree here. The truth of the statement 'Expelled is too nice' does not depend on the truth or falsity of the if.

And what is it about conditionals that you do not understand?

Glen D

I didn't see what Kevin was commenting on, so I could be wrong, but the conditional does not seem to link to the statement that 'Expelled plays too nice', but rather to the fact that they could be caught red-handed.

  
Lowell



Posts: 101
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,16:18   

Slate.com just posted an article examining Expelled's claims of academic suppression in the context of other conspiracy theories.
http://www.slate.com/id/2189178/entry/2189361/

--------------
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

  
hooligans



Posts: 114
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,16:39   

Here's another review from FlickFilosopher.com:
Quote
It’s apeshit crazy nuttiness right from the opening moments of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, as imagery of Nazi atrocities and the terrors of life behind the Berlin War are smugly deployed in a demented attempt to editorialize away basic scientific fact.


Gotta love that review!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10759
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,16:46   

Quote (hooligans @ April 18 2008,16:39)
Here's another review from FlickFilosopher.com:
Quote
It’s apeshit crazy nuttiness right from the opening moments of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, as imagery of Nazi atrocities and the terrors of life behind the Berlin War are smugly deployed in a demented attempt to editorialize away basic scientific fact.


Gotta love that review!

I told her off a week ago for recommending people see it.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,16:57   

Quote (Lou FCD @ April 18 2008,15:51)
Quote (caerbannog @ April 18 2008,15:33)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 18 2008,12:52)
 
Quote (improvius @ April 18 2008,06:19)
   
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 17 2008,16:25)
   
Quote (improvius @ April 17 2008,06:57)
Reviews are starting to roll in now.  Current Tomatometer rating: 11% and falling.

Down to 9%.

8%

7%

Missed it by >< that much

6%

(Still "running the table" with the "top critics", at 0%)

5%

...and back to 9% again, thanks to a lukewarm review from Christianity Today.

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
KimvdLinde



Posts: 12
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,17:01   

Yup. Someone seeing the appearance of a bimodal distribution, generally a sign of a propaganda movie in which you either like it or not.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,17:10   

Quote (Lou FCD @ April 18 2008,15:51)
Quote (caerbannog @ April 18 2008,15:33)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 18 2008,12:52)
 
Quote (improvius @ April 18 2008,06:19)
   
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 17 2008,16:25)
     
Quote (improvius @ April 17 2008,06:57)
Reviews are starting to roll in now.  Current Tomatometer rating: 11% and falling.

Down to 9%.

8%

7%

Missed it by >< that much

6%

(Still "running the table" with the "top critics", at 0%)

5%

Back up to 9%.  On the strength of a review from Christianity Today.

All Science So Far!

ETA- And this time, I was too slow.

Edited by Lou FCD on April 18 2008,18:10

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
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Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
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(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,17:39   

Based on the picture at the "premiere" showing, who is Robert Marks and what is he doing hanging around with this motley crew?

I've read some idiotic comments made by Marks in the press, but aside from trying to pass Baylor cafeteria vouchers to his pal Dr. Dr. D*mbski, Marks is obviously associating himself with this Nazi propaganda film.

Maybe it feels good to hang around with losers.  I dunno.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4824
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,17:41   

Quote

Hopefully, big crowds will turn out for this movie, said Brent Bozell in NewsBusters.org. “Everyone should take the opportunity to see Expelled—if nothing else, as a bracing antidote to the atheism-friendly culture of PC liberalism.” But it’s also “a spotlight on the arrogance of this movement and its leaders, a spotlight on the choking intolerance of academia, and a spotlight on the ignorance of so many who say so much, yet know so very little.”


The arrogance of the movement? That would justly be a dig at the antievolutionists, as would the comment on ignorance.

Drat that academia, insisting that people know what they presume to criticize.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,17:47   

Don't forget the ever erudite comments on IMDB:

 
Quote

I would say it is about time someone made a movie about this debate. Some people seem to think that Intelligent Design is an insult to the human race which confuses me. I would much rather be insulted by being created with purpose than to be insulted by accidentally being formed from "soup". Great movie and a great way of getting the point across. This documentary really sheds light on something that remains unseen to many people in the education fields! Anyone who is struggling with the question of "how" should watch this movie. Would recommend this to anyone who is actually open to new ideas and can think for themselves! A great film for the open-minded!


And!
Quote

I just have one question for all who believe in evolution.

Why do we still have monkeys? Shouldn't they all have evolved into people by now?

Also, why do some men go bald? What purpose does that serve? If baldness is a good thing, shouldn't we all be bald due to evolution? If it's a bad thing, evolution should have wiped out baldness by now.


--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

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Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,17:50   

So are they raking in the big bucks today?  Setting any world record for the most money by a anti-science propaganda film?

Inquiring minds want to know!

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,18:19   

From Rotten Tomatoes:

Quote
Consensus: A cynical political stunt in the guise of a documentary. Full of patronizing, poorly structured arguments, Expelled is a cynical political stunt in the guise of a documentary.


--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
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J-Dog



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(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,18:41   

I think that the MoviePhone Review site needs some immediate attention from some of us Darwinsits...

They are drinking deep of the ID Kool-Aid, and I think we need to stage an intervention ASAP.

If anyone already has an AIM or AOL account, that would be great.

http://movies.aol.com/movie....reviews

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,19:03   

Andrea Thompson @ LiveScience

Quote
If you’re heading out to the movie theater this weekend, I wouldn’t recommend spending your money on “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed,” the latest attempt by the intelligent design movement to infiltrate science classrooms and labs with a decidedly unscientific idea.


and later:

Quote
After this unbelievably intellectually dishonest exercise, what stood out to me was the utter lack of science in a movie purportedly about the oppression of a “scientific” idea. I kept waiting and waiting for an explanation of either evolution or intelligent design, but the movie made only the lamest attempt at defining either idea.


--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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