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k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2006,03:24    Bloody h3ll, the quality of the BathroonWall is declining. Hurd I know is a total nutcase, whom, strangely I agree with: but he was only quoting Shaw; what is the world coming two ...or one? -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2006,03:33    Just wanted to see if the avatar I selected is working . . . . Oh, and to let everyone know that a book-length condensed version of my Creatiion "Science" Debunked website is available as a free e-book at the Talk.Reason site: http://www.talkreason.org/articles/deception.cfm It contains a history of fundamentalism in the US, a history of the  ID/creationist movement, a short legal history, and detailed looks at  the Arkansas, Louisiana, Kansas, Ohio and Dover cases. It is free to download and distribute. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2006,03:48    Lenny u quack me up!!! GO boy!!!!! -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2006,03:54    Well, we'll see if Wes allows it to stay . . . -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2006,04:01    Look I'm  not one given to much sentimentalism,  but: Lenny states:   Quote Dedication To Matt Duss and Tim Rhodes, who originally leaked the Wedge Document to the Internet. They did far more to protect democracy than they ever could have realized at the time. Matt and Tim  deserve the highest accolades of liberal activism (even IF they are conservatives, and I don't think  too many true conservatives will disagree with me ). Matt and Tim I owe you one, thanks. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 20 2006,04:06    Well,  Wes I would like to think ,is one of those true  conservatives I was hinting at. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

J-Dog Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2006,06:16    Bob O'H - If my kid took that "course" by MacNeil, I would ask for a refund.   The only thing  "taught" was how to pander to the ID nuts like Hannah. (Where pander = nice word for suck up to.  Sorry Alan, IMO, your course was not science, it was sciency. The lesson to be learned here is how Alan MacNeil tried to put lipstick on a pig. And I think Bob O'H just slipped it his tongue...  EEWWWW!

don_quixote Posts: 110 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2006,19:27    Dennis O'Leary as she is most fondly remembered, as Snaggletooth in Star Wars Episode IV.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2006,19:36    lol. oh, btw, not that I'm the formal welcome wagon or anything, but er, welcome. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2006,21:39    Is it hypocritical for me to giggle at Don's photoshop not ten minutes after I put a post on the AFDave thread demanding more decorum? I'll leave that question for the philosophers.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 23 2006,10:38    not at all.  the two are unrelated. laugh away. er, I should add I'm no philosopher, though. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,13:05    I'm watching Logan Gage of the Discovery Instute on C-SPAN2 right now. God these guys suck.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,13:10    It's been like 2 minutes and I can barely stand it. They've referred to Casey's "Research" in the ISCID journal. Now John West is blathering about dissent from darwin dot org. Now a poll saying laypeople believe 'both sides' should be taught. Oh jesus, this is horrid. John West makes this awful smacky noise every time he opens his mouth. edit: at 7:12 pm the word 'persecuted' makes its appearence. That's it. I'm out.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,13:24    Switched to Tim Russert. He's interviewing Thomas Ricks about his book Fiasco. Much better. Listening to someone who knows what he's talking about.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,14:05    Ricks: "I've made 5 trips to Iraq. Each time, I think, 'man, it couldn't possibly get any worse.' Each time I went back, it was. We're in act 3 of a 5-act tragedy here. Rosencranz and Guildenstern are still alive and happy and walking around the stage. In three years we might look back and say 'you know what? '06 wasn't that bad.'"

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,14:25    flipped back after russert was over. West and Luskin are answering questions. west: (paraphrasing) "I think the evidence should be viewed but the other side just wants to talk about motives. motives motives motives. That shouldn't be relevant, only the evidence should matter. And btw Steven Weinberg, Eugenie Scott, and Barbara Forrest are atheists." Also, Casey Luskin looks like a Disney-anthropomorphized rat. Some guy in the audience asks about a supposed list of 18 predictions ID makes. West responds claiming that Darwinism predicts no function in Junk DNA, but that function in Junk DNA was 'an early prediction' of ID. There looks like about 30 people in the audience. The first guy I saw ask a question said he was from the CS Lewis Society. The next guy asking a question is from the Family Research Council.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,16:06    Quote only the evidence should matter hey! they stole our line again! bastards. can't they come up with something original once in a while? make that "ever"? soo... let me get this straight.  The lying DI dogs get CSPAN... and PZ gets "infidelguy" on radio. *sigh* frickin' doomed. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,16:29    You should have seen it. West basically said that the Darwinist position is that religious people should be disqualified from office. It was simply awful.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,17:34    don't tell me you were drinking mango vodka while watching that? you must have a cast iron stomach. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,17:43    In fact I'm still drinking mango vodka. Yeah, I was able to take maybe an aggregate ~30 minutes of it. I won't lie to you, it was enough to inspire homicidal fantasies, but I calmed down the with what always calmed me down: reminders of their complete failure. 15 years into the movement, they've got nothing. no theory, no hypotheses, no predictions, no experiments, no nothing. They tried, and they failed. The world keeps spinning, evolutionary biologists keep figuring things out and publishing, and the whackos keep failing to make a difference.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,18:12    Quote They tried, and they failed. not exactly, they managed to put chimpy mcgrin into office. Coulter's book is a bestseller. We're spending dozens of posts having to tear apart Wells' latest drivel. Ted Haggerty's megachurch in Colorodo is growing 18% per year. It's enough to make one drink mango vodka! thank god for term limits (pun intended). cheers -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,18:23    Quote (Ichthyic @ Aug. 27 2006,00:12) It's enough to make one drink mango vodka! (does shot, followed by Coke chaser) Hey, any port in a storm!

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 26 2006,18:29    *sounds foghorn* -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Ulyanov Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2006,10:43    This is really something Krebs, in view of the fact that on your own site you allowed posters to be singled out for personal attack, some so bad even you had to delete them finally. On the other hand, although you have a thread for wayward comments, this has the effect of allowing those vicious attacks to remain up. And, of course, the vile things said about believers by some of your posters, a couple of who are board members, are well known. You are a real piece of work, Krebs. You let others do your fighting for you. Wimp.

Ulyanov Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2006,10:45    This is really something Krebs, in view of the fact that on your own site you allowed posters to be singled out for personal attack, some so bad even you had to delete them finally. On the other hand, although you have a thread for wayward comments, this has the effect of allowing those vicious attacks to remain up. And, of course, the vile things said about believers by some of your posters, a couple of who are board members, are well known. You are a real piece of work, Krebs.

Emanuel Goldstein Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2006,07:24    The problem is that Myers makes claims that science supports atheism, which as Jack Krebs at Kansas Citizens for Science always tells us goes beyond anything that science can do one way or the other. Have of his site is devoted to third rate atheshit rants that can be found on any atheist site and have ZIP to do with science. Just like Kansas Citizens for Science

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2006,15:23    I think this has been covered on PT before, but if you haven't seen it, there's a good long New Yorker piece on the Dover case: http://www.wesjones.com/darwin.htm and when I saw this illustration in the magazine (I subscribe to the New Yorker), I giggled:

Collin DuCrane Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2006,16:30    Is not Intelligent Design really just a more politically correct Darwinism, meant to pry creationists from the altar? Any bio-genesis that allows thermodynamic first causes to life is a fallacial. How can entropic forces be organizational forces? Isn't that like expecting a pile of rust to slowly become a Cadillac? Thermodynamics causes all matter (organized energy) to disintegrate (disorganize) over time. Methinks many scientists have been playing the results backwards and exclaiming "See! We don't need a creator! I can show the rust turning into a Caddy!". Almost like a fundamentalist playing Ozzy backwards and claiming "Listen! Evidence of demons!" Birth and rebirth are observable phenomena that only exist within the context of pre-organized material, biological or otherwise. Perhaps a discussion of Information Theory might be appropriate to this thread...

Darth Robo Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2006,16:30    Collin DuCrane said: "Thermodynamics causes all matter (organized energy) to disintegrate (disorganize) over time." Like the human foetus?

J. G. Cox Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 29 2006,16:30    Or Lenny Flank's favorite, the snowflake.

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