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oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,06:44    Quote (Richard Simons @ Jan. 10 2009,21:27) Daniel, could you answer some questions for me about front-loading? Do all existing organisms come from one original front-loaded organism or does each organism represent the current end-point of an unbranched line from an ancestral progenitor? If each current organism represents the end of a lineage, does this mean that, for example, for each of the current species of finch on the Galapagos Islands there was at least one pair of founder birds? Similarly, for every vertebrate species (extant and extinct) was there at least a pair of ancestral chordate, apparently identical but in practice not breeding with others that were destined to give rise to different species? Alternatively, if branching is possible, what happens when a pair of species diverges? How do they know which one is destined to become rapidly extinct and which one is going to proliferate? Presumably in the one that's going to become extinct the switches you imagine to be present get deleted, permanently switched off or bypassed, or perhaps all the genes that are not needed for the future become deleted. At the reptile/mammal split, was it that in the first line all the genes for hair, elephant tusks, beaver tails and whale fins were flagged for deletion while in the second line it was the genes for feathers, uric acid excretion, poison fangs, neck frills and ichthyosaur tails that were switched off? How was it specified that the correct sets were all switched off? Of course, perhaps there were mistakes and birds were supposed to produce milk :-) How would we know? Once an organism has passed through a stage do the genes responsible for it get deleted or are they still there but are now bypassed? Could it be possible to determine the evolutionary future of an organism by examining its genes? Has any front-loader ever made any attempt to answer questions like these and if so, what conclusion did they come to? Has it even occured to any champion of front-loading that these are the kinds of questions that need to be answered? Daniel, So, frontloading is being discussed and some reasonable questions being asked regarding it. Now, will you ignore them or respond? If you ignore them you simply solidify your reputation. If you attempt to answer them in good faith, well, who knows what could happen.. After all, as the resident expert on frontloading (you cited the relevant papers) if you can't answer these questions then who will? -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

rhmc Posts: 340 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,06:48    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 10 2009,20:55) Naughty to compare a computer with hard drive running a character based interface to one using a GUI that lacks same.* And stupid to design a computer with such a demanding interface without the possibility of RAM expansion or addition of a hard drive capable of high speed data transmission, as did Apple. A Mac SE with 1 meg and internal hard drive (possible after Jobs was pushed out of Apple) did just fine next to a PC or AT. And an AT running Windows 3.0 was a sorry sight indeed. (I've got a still-working 10 MB XT in my attic. The thing sounds like a 737 spooling up its engines when you turn it on.) *The original Mac variable speed 400K floppy drives sang a wonderful tune that is hard to forget. even the early mac would do things the pc series had no hope of duplicating but for those who merely wanted to mish-mash wordstar and miscalculate visicalc, the pc would run circles around mac. winders 3.0 should have been running on the newly introduced 386 systems, not the old 6mhz AT (and windows 3.11 was the last operating system from billy boy that actually worked as advertised). ah, the old days....netware, wordstar, OS/2, DOS...

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,06:54    ok, my early tech experence is the "internet" on a spectrum 48kb. The modem was a 1200/75 baud monster that was bigger then the spectrum itself (rubber keys version) and when you plugged it in it loaded a basic program into ram which you then had to "run" to start. It was in fact prestel, not the internet as such. Teletext online basically. My main usage at the time was a MUD called shades. I played that alot. There was a "strange little girl" you had to touch in shades. I won't say any more for fear of self-incrimination! :D -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,07:42    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,06:42) I am genuinely disappointed in myself that my patience and tolerance for dealing with these people has waned to the point where mockery is my major recourse. I look back into the dim and distant past when I used to compose posts on Word, tweak them, archive them and the replies/stimuli etc and take arguing with T.A.R.D. advocates seriously. It's like something died. Oh wistful melancholy, thou art all that remains of an inferno of SIWOTI syndrome.... ;-) Louis Myeh, there are people out there who actually want to learn things, are awed and fascinated by the wonder around them, who crave to know more about how things work and what can be done with that knowledge for the betterment of themselves and their fellow earthmates. These people are worth such a huge investment of time and effort. Daniel is not one of them. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,07:44    Quote (rhmc @ Jan. 11 2009,07:48) winders 3.0 should have been running on the newly introduced 386 systems... By then the apposite Mac was a Mac II with a 68020 running System 6 (IIRC), or maybe an SE/30 (a sweet spot in the Mac pantheon). Windows 3.1 on a '386 was hopelessly clunky by comparison. I'd have colleagues come to me with the desperate plaint, "Help, I've lost my icons."   Quote ah, the old days....netware, wordstar, OS/2, DOS. Calls to mind a favorite palindrome: "Rats drown in Wordstar." -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

rhmc Posts: 340 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,08:07    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 11 2009,08:44) Quote "Help, I've lost my icons.". that still happens, or so i hear.  :) thankfully, desktop woes are someone else's responsibility. did you see where microsoft has given up on vista? now if they'd also give up on that sham of a server operating system....and the endless patching of said crap... Quote Calls to mind a favorite palindrome: "Rats drown in Wordstar.". someone who know the control keystrokes for wordstar could make that program do astonishing things and quickly, too.  none of that mouse movement crap when copying/moving/deleting text to slow things down. them days are gone.   i assume you're running some version of the leopard OS these days?

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,08:17    Quote (rhmc @ Jan. 11 2009,09:07) i assume you're running some version of the leopard OS these days? OS 10.5.6 on a G5 dual processor tower and a MacBook. So I straddle processor families (without having to take the slightest note of that fact). Which calls to mind Apple's most astonishing accomplishments: the transition from the 68000 family to the PowerPC, the transition from OS 9 to OS X, and the transition from PowerPC to Intel. Equivalent to repeatedly replacing the hull and engines of a submarine while underway, underwater, and in battle. It's a smooth and powerful vessel. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

JonF Posts: 634 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,08:59    Quote (khan @ Jan. 10 2009,20:44) Punch cards, paper tape, acoustic couplers, printouts in lieu of monitors. Posting since the Pleistocene. Pah! We didn't have no fancy punchin' makhinery, we had to punch our cards byhand. Wif rocks. Once stuck a very ripe banana in the middle of a box of cards and, late at night, handed it to a particulary obnoxious Priest of teh 360 ...

RupertG Posts: 80 Joined: Nov. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,09:43    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 11 2009,06:54) ok, my early tech experence is the "internet" on a spectrum 48kb. The modem was a 1200/75 baud monster that was bigger then the spectrum itself (rubber keys version) and when you plugged it in it loaded a basic program into ram which you then had to "run" to start. It was in fact prestel, not the internet as such. Teletext online basically. My main usage at the time was a MUD called shades. I played that alot. There was a "strange little girl" you had to touch in shades. I won't say any more for fear of self-incrimination! :D VTX5000... My first job as a journalist was on Micronet 800. Imagine that, an online daily consumer magazine in 1983, at (as you say) 1200/75, text only (well, some block graphics), per-page charging... Tell the kids of today that. Mind you, you could do a lot with a Spectrum and a VTX5000, once you got onto PSS. And hacking wasn't illegal, as we all discovered once the House of Lords agreed with the appeal in the case of Steve Gold and Rob Schifreen vs Brenda. 'appy days. -------------- Uncle Joe and Aunty Mabel Fainted at the breakfast table Children, let this be a warning Never do it in the morning -- Ralph Vaughan Williams

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,10:05    My dad encouraged me to take a computer programming course during my undergraduate days. I took a intro to FORTRAN course. It was done with punch cards, and jobs submitted to an IBM mainframe computer. Students could submit jobs anytime... but they were only likely to run and the results come off the line printers between midnight and 3 AM. And if you weren't there to collect your printout... nobody was responsible for what might happen to it. I was so impressed that it took me a couple of years to sign up for another CS course. I carefully examined the course description... introduction to computer concepts... all discussion about computers and no interaction with computers, and therefore safe. So when I sat down in the lecture room, I learned that my instructor was a visiting professor, and he had his own ideas about the best way to teach computer concepts, "If you learn IBM Assembler with Assist, you will understand the computer." It was back to punch cards and late nights at the computer center. But the instructor was good, far better than my FORTRAN instructor. It was unfortunate that toward the end of the term, the two rooms full of key punch machines were overhauled for terminals, leaving a total of six key punch machines for we students relying on them to finish off our final programming projects. I spent a day waiting in line, and only moved up half the length of the line to a machine. I turned in a hand-written assembly language program, noting it would have been what I would have put on punch cards if I'd been able to get to a machine. But that course turned around my attitude on computer science, leading eventually to my entering an MS program in CS. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,10:13    Quote (jeffox @ Jan. 10 2009,21:39) Khan asked: Quote From one old fart to another: Who will stop the rain... Ummm, maybe Willy and the Poor Boys?  :) Great job on getting the lyric, BTW; I'd heard the song for years and didn't know quite what it was until a former-singer friend of mine spelled it out for me. At least both of us agree that CCR rocked!!!! Damn!  You guys are having all the fun, and I'm stuck in Lodi again... Hey!  This is just as much fun as Mornington Crescent! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,10:22    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 11 2009,08:17) Quote (rhmc @ Jan. 11 2009,09:07) i assume you're running some version of the leopard OS these days? OS 10.5.6 on a G5 dual processor tower and a MacBook. So I straddle processor families (without having to take the slightest note of that fact). Which calls to mind Apple's most astonishing accomplishments: the transition from the 68000 family to the PowerPC, the transition from OS 9 to OS X, and the transition from PowerPC to Intel. Equivalent to repeatedly replacing the hull and engines of a submarine while underway, underwater, and in battle. It's a smooth and powerful vessel. My only experience with a Mac was with OS8.1. It only needed to do a few things for the crew publishing a magazine. Open Acrobat files for proofreading, scan images and print to a printer on the network over ethernet. After three months of tech support it never printed to the network. After each image scan, using Photoshop, the computer froze and had to be powered off. I have two friends who bought Mac laptops in the last two years. One bought it for his daughter because her private school required it. Her laptop has had three dvd drive replacements and two hard drives. The other guy sold his mac after six months. I didn't get a detailed explanation, but it had something to do with synchronizing email with a corporate PC and a Blackberry. I gave my son an iPod a couple years ago. I find out recently that it died after a year and a half, and he replaced it at his own expense. He was too embarrassed to tell me that my gift wound up costing him money. I don't like to spend a lot of time bashing Apple, but occasionally I get tired of the endless of bullshit emanating from the Apple crowd. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,10:34    Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 11 2009,13:42) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,06:42) I am genuinely disappointed in myself that my patience and tolerance for dealing with these people has waned to the point where mockery is my major recourse. I look back into the dim and distant past when I used to compose posts on Word, tweak them, archive them and the replies/stimuli etc and take arguing with T.A.R.D. advocates seriously. It's like something died. Oh wistful melancholy, thou art all that remains of an inferno of SIWOTI syndrome.... ;-) Louis Myeh, there are people out there who actually want to learn things, are awed and fascinated by the wonder around them, who crave to know more about how things work and what can be done with that knowledge for the betterment of themselves and their fellow earthmates. These people are worth such a huge investment of time and effort. Daniel is not one of them. I have heard of these people....which reminds me, I owe you a post on physical chemistry and bonding. You have not been forgotten, you have merely moved to a position in the huge pile of stuff I have to do that is not conducive to rapid completion of said project! ;-) There's nothing more I'd like than to have the time to draw up a serious post or twenty on, for example, abiogenesis. I'd even love to do so for Danny's benefit (as well as that of others). I (currently) don't have the time (quick posts of dubiously ribald humour do not time take). What does discourage me from bothering to do so for the Dannys of this world is that my patience is very limited when it comes to the "Nuh uh" defence of the psychologically baffled and eternally self-deluding. I'd produce a wodge of material at great personal (time) expense and have it handwaved away with the casual ignorance of the habitual bullshitter. Of course there's great personal benefit in making those sorts of posts, writing anything technical crystallises one's ideas, exposes one's weaknesses etc. But there's better ways to expend that sort of effort. I realise that this makes me a bad person. Oh well! Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,10:35    Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 11 2009,16:13) Quote (jeffox @ Jan. 10 2009,21:39) Khan asked:   Quote From one old fart to another: Who will stop the rain... Ummm, maybe Willy and the Poor Boys?  :) Great job on getting the lyric, BTW; I'd heard the song for years and didn't know quite what it was until a former-singer friend of mine spelled it out for me. At least both of us agree that CCR rocked!!!! Damn!  You guys are having all the fun, and I'm stuck in Lodi again... Hey!  This is just as much fun as Mornington Crescent! How Dare You! (Ladbroke Grove) Louis -------------- Bye.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,11:09    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,10:35) Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 11 2009,16:13) Quote (jeffox @ Jan. 10 2009,21:39) Khan asked:   Quote From one old fart to another: Who will stop the rain... Ummm, maybe Willy and the Poor Boys?  :) Great job on getting the lyric, BTW; I'd heard the song for years and didn't know quite what it was until a former-singer friend of mine spelled it out for me. At least both of us agree that CCR rocked!!!! Damn!  You guys are having all the fun, and I'm stuck in Lodi again... Hey!  This is just as much fun as Mornington Crescent! How Dare You! (Ladbroke Grove) Louis Very interesting - yet plucky!  I haven't seen the Ladbroke Grove as an opening gambit since Primly tried it in the Championships round back in '54... Shame what happend to him, really, and totally not his fault. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,11:44    Quote (rhmc @ Jan. 11 2009,04:48)   Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 10 2009,20:55) Naughty to compare a computer with hard drive running a character based interface to one using a GUI that lacks same.* And stupid to design a computer with such a demanding interface without the possibility of RAM expansion or addition of a hard drive capable of high speed data transmission, as did Apple. A Mac SE with 1 meg and internal hard drive (possible after Jobs was pushed out of Apple) did just fine next to a PC or AT. And an AT running Windows 3.0 was a sorry sight indeed. (I've got a still-working 10 MB XT in my attic. The thing sounds like a 737 spooling up its engines when you turn it on.) *The original Mac variable speed 400K floppy drives sang a wonderful tune that is hard to forget. even the early mac would do things the pc series had no hope of duplicating but for those who merely wanted to mish-mash wordstar and miscalculate visicalc, the pc would run circles around mac. winders 3.0 should have been running on the newly introduced 386 systems, not the old 6mhz AT (and windows 3.11 was the last operating system from billy boy that actually worked as advertised). ah, the old days....netware, wordstar, OS/2, DOS... -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,11:54    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,08:34) I realise that this makes me a bad person. Oh well! Well. That and several other things. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,12:05    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 11 2009,17:54) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,08:34) I realise that this makes me a bad person. Oh well! Well. That and several other things. True, true. My own fallibility is undeniable. However, my humility is so bloody brilliant it makes me wonderful and practically perfect in every way, so there. Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,15:02    Hmmmmm. Louis -------------- Bye.

rhmc Posts: 340 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,18:32    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 11 2009,12:44) mandavoshka  :)

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,22:21    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,13:05) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 11 2009,17:54) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,08:34) I realise that this makes me a bad person. Oh well! Well. That and several other things. True, true. My own fallibility is undeniable. However, my humility is so bloody brilliant it makes me wonderful and practically perfect in every way, so there. Louis Mary Poppins? -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

creeky belly Posts: 205 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2009,22:29    Quote (khan @ Jan. 11 2009,22:21)   Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,13:05)   Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 11 2009,17:54)     Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,08:34) I realise that this makes me a bad person. Oh well! Well. That and several other things. True, true. My own fallibility is undeniable. However, my humility is so bloody brilliant it makes me wonderful and practically perfect in every way, so there. Louis Mary Poppins? More like Dick van Dyke's accent.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,03:10    Suck on this Daniel.   Quote We're one step closer to self-sustaining chemical replicators, similar to what would have existed a few billion years ago, before true cells evolved. Lincoln and Joyce have created a couple of relatively simple molecules that assemble themselves from even simpler precursors in a test tube. It's not as straightforward as the simplest scheme one might imagine. The simplest model would be for a single enzyme, E, to catalyze its own assembly from two smaller precursors, A and B. This formula would lead to a test tube full of A and B to be quickly converted to a test tube full of nearly nothing but E with the introduction of a single copy of E. The actual solution is a little more difficult to explain. Quote Again, don't have illusions that this is an example of a resurrected chemical function from the dawn of time — it's a demonstration of the feasibility of one part of the process of chemical evolution. http://scienceblogs.com/pharyng....hp#more Sounds to me like you are closer to losing your bet (faith, belief, whatever) every day. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

huwp Posts: 172 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,03:40    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,10:35) How Dare You! (Ladbroke Grove) Louis Must... resist... MC addiction... go to happy place... Oh bugger. Tooting Bec. Damn, damn, damn, damn.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,04:01    Quote (khan @ Jan. 12 2009,04:21) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,13:05) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 11 2009,17:54)   Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,08:34) I realise that this makes me a bad person. Oh well! Well. That and several other things. True, true. My own fallibility is undeniable. However, my humility is so bloody brilliant it makes me wonderful and practically perfect in every way, so there. Louis Mary Poppins? Only on Thursdays and for an up front fee of £500. Subject to availability, please book first. Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,04:04    Quote (huwp @ Jan. 12 2009,09:40) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,10:35) How Dare You! (Ladbroke Grove) Louis Must... resist... MC addiction... go to happy place... Oh bugger. Tooting Bec. Damn, damn, damn, damn. Tooting Bec eh? Interesting, last played by Ruskilovingpopperovski in '38 if I'm not mistaken, whilst attempting to lateral shift at the same time as blocking a Northern Approach to Cockfosters and rendering the whole Jubilee line out of bounds by Squaring the Diagonal. Hmmm, I can see I'll have to take you seriously. Such bold play deserves respect. In which case... Aldwych (closed). Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,04:05    Quote (creeky belly @ Jan. 12 2009,04:29) Quote (khan @ Jan. 11 2009,22:21)   Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,13:05)     Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 11 2009,17:54)     Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,08:34) I realise that this makes me a bad person. Oh well! Well. That and several other things. True, true. My own fallibility is undeniable. However, my humility is so bloody brilliant it makes me wonderful and practically perfect in every way, so there. Louis Mary Poppins? More like Dick van Dyke's accent. Harsh, but in many ways fair. "Cor Blimey Mary Poppins". {Shudder} Louis -------------- Bye.

huwp Posts: 172 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,05:35    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 12 2009,04:04) Quote (huwp @ Jan. 12 2009,09:40) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 11 2009,10:35) How Dare You! (Ladbroke Grove) Louis Must... resist... MC addiction... go to happy place... Oh bugger. Tooting Bec. Damn, damn, damn, damn. Tooting Bec eh? Interesting, last played by Ruskilovingpopperovski in '38 if I'm not mistaken, whilst attempting to lateral shift at the same time as blocking a Northern Approach to Cockfosters and rendering the whole Jubilee line out of bounds by Squaring the Diagonal. Hmmm, I can see I'll have to take you seriously. Such bold play deserves respect. In which case... Aldwych (closed). Louis Actually the Tooting Bec opening was last played by Giles Featheringstonehaugh during the so-called Pirate series of 1977 when Kerry Packer sought to bring MC to his Channel 9 network. The Alwych (closed) move is very sound, if perhaps a little conventional, although it's nice to see you avoid the awfully predictable Stockwell. Tower Hill.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,05:47    Hmmmm, Ladbroke Grove to Tooting Bec to Aldwych (closed) to Tower Hill, surely this is analogous to the Grand Opening of Her Majesty first viewed in the '50s if memory serves. I assume that elevators are wild since it would appear that we have deviated from Stovold and moved into the dastardly realms of The Cardinals. This of course being the case I shall come from the East with a Masonic Lateral: Fairlop. Louis P.S. This could get out of hand. -------------- Bye.

huwp Posts: 172 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 12 2009,07:07    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 12 2009,05:47) Hmmmm, Ladbroke Grove to Tooting Bec to Aldwych (closed) to Tower Hill, surely this is analogous to the Grand Opening of Her Majesty first viewed in the '50s if memory serves. I assume that elevators are wild since it would appear that we have deviated from Stovold and moved into the dastardly realms of The Cardinals. This of course being the case I shall come from the East with a Masonic Lateral: Fairlop. Louis P.S. This could get out of hand. Good God man, you can't mention HM's Grand Opening here - there may be colonials around!  I know you're not renowned for tact and diplomacy round here, but there again, if what Arden's mother says about you is true... Anyway, of course, we have deviated from Stovold; we're in the second week of January and, yes, naturally, lifts are wild (elevators!!!) The Masonic lateral is interesting since it is both level and square. I wish to keep my options open and definitely do not wish to go in Nid.  Hence: Moorgate.

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