The whole truth
Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012
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| Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 07 2012,07:46) | | Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 07 2012,09:18) | | I have a hard time standing up for someone who isn't willing to stand up for themselves, unless they're unable to for some reason, but I really don't think that EL is unable to. I would think that she should realize that showing any weakness to those arrogant god-wannabes is not going to do any good. Like you said, she will never make mullings (or any other IDiot) see what he is, and especially when she caters to his dictatorial insanity in any way. I also think that gordo and the other IDiots will do just fine at showing how fucked up they are without her dissecting their arguments at UD. . |
I believe you have made two fatal errors here. First, you are assuming she is being submissive. Second, you are assuming she is arguing with them in order to convince them that they are wrong.
On the first count, I see EL's debating style as a form of jujitsu. They (and apparently you) expect a frontal assault. But, rather than giving them what they want (an excuse to ban her), she kills them with kindness. She is able to effectively eviscerate them without even their knowing it. Their continued outrage and insults only make them look the worse, while her calm tone adds more weight behind what she is saying.
To the second point, I am pretty sure she knows that she will never convince them of anything. However, her comments will stand as a testament to reason for future onlookers (!) to see as long as UD stands. All they have is sciency sounding arguments that, when left by themselves, are convincing to the incredulous. Her comments, and the vile responses they receive, lay bear the ignorance and mean-spiritedness at the core of UD. So, it is far better to have her there, pulling apart their "arguments" than it is to leave them alone for future websurfers to find convincing in the absence of any counterpoint.
In short: Elizabeth is a fucking ninja.
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I'm not assuming that she is submissive, I'm observing it.
I agree that their insults make them look worse and that the responses EL receives "lay bear the ignorance and mean-spiritedness at the core of UD", but I can't agree that being submissive to mullings or any other IDiot is a necessary or productive way to deal with them.
There's a huge difference between "calm tone" and caving in. All that being submissive accomplishes is to encourage the IDiots to think that they are dominant and superior, and lets them think that they have 'conquered' their opponent, and conquering, domination, and superiority is what they want. In other words, it 'enables' them and strengthens them.
Remember what I said about lions, limping prey, that I can see EL's weaknesses, and so the predatory IDiots can too?
Why do you think that EL gets so many accusations of being a liar thrown at her, and so many insults, and so much attention from the most belligerent, domineering IDiots? Sure, some other people get the same things thrown at them but some people who are more 'in-their-face' with the IDiots are not accused or insulted as much as EL is. Do you know why?
There are basically three things to consider:
1. The IDiots, and especially certain ones, are arrogant, narcissistic, chauvinistic, male, controlling, authoritarian, jealous, power-hungry, ruthless, predatory, unscrupulous god-wannabes.
2. EL is a woman, and they know it.
3. EL shows many weaknesses, and even submissiveness at times.
Once or twice on UD I've seen an IDiot say they they respect a strong opponent. Now, whether respect is really what that particular IDiot felt or not, it is something to think about. Of course most of the IDiots would never say that they respect a strong opponent and wouldn't 'respect' any opponent under any circumstances, but that doesn't mean that opponents shouldn't stand up firmly for whatever respect they 'deserve', and especially whatever respect they deserve from self-proclaimed 'moral', bible-thumping, ten-commandment promoting christians.
Think about this:
If you were in a face to face discussion/debate with a self-proclaimed 'moral' evangelical fundamentalist christian (e.g. gordo) and they repeatedly called you a liar and insulted you over and over again just because you disagree with them and point out why, with rational, evidence based arguments, in a calm tone, would you just stand there and take it and/or continue to try to discuss/debate anything with them, and would you think it's a good idea to show weaknesses or be submissive in any way?
The fatal error is to let a predator see you limp.
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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27
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