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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 3, The Beast Marches On...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,11:38   

Evolution will be dead in five years!

You sillies! :)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2595
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,11:43   

The evolutionary paradigm will be abandoned just in time to adopt cheap atomic fusion power.

edit morning figners typo.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Seversky



Posts: 441
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,11:47   

KF continues to ignore PKB (pot/kettle/black) in his discussion of dating methods:
Quote
We have a cluster of models that have been correlated to give a timeline based on a consensus school of thought, but we have no truly independent check on the past, especially as we go beyond records.

We have no truly independent check even within recorded history.  For example, we have a cluster of documents relating to the New Testament, the earliest dates from the second century although the bulk are somewhat later.  These are copies not originals.  Some show signs of errors in copying.  Some show signs of amendments or additions  by later authors.  In some cases, scholars believe they have been able to filter out the later changes and reached a consensus on what the original text was.  In other cases, they have been unable to determine the original intention of the author.  They also have know way of knowing to what extent the original accounts were passed on initially by oral tradition or what changes may have occurred during that transmission.

Yet these texts are supposed to embody eternal truths and are held by some to be an impeccably accurate account of historical events.

Let us remind ourselves of KFs definition of hyperskepticism:
Quote
Selective Hyperskepticism: that fallacy which seeks to reject or dismiss otherwise credible evidence by demanding an inappropriately high type or degree of warrant not applicable to matters of fact, i.e. the general type of question being discussed. Especially, where the same standard is not exerted in assessing substantially parallel cases that make claims that one is inclined to accept.

Leaving aside the questions of whether this can truly be categorized as a fallacy or what qualifies as an "inappropriately high type or degree of warrant not applicable to matters of fact", it is quite clear that KF, in this case, is applying the implied double-standard, to whit, any accusation made against evolution of fragmentary and uncorroborated evidence or of unreliable dating methods can be made with equal force against the evidential foundation of his own faith.  Yet his beliefs are true while the theory of evolution is just a delusion or a malicious conspiracy of greedy atheist scholars.

Onlookers take note!

  
Seversky



Posts: 441
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,11:55   

Quote (Kristine @ April 10 2011,11:38)
Evolution will be dead in five years!

Yeah, that evolution was a cool dude.  "Live fast, die young and leave a good-looking corpse" was his motto.  But danged if that ain't the liveliest, best-lookingest corpse I ever did see!

Now that ID, though, well that's lookin' a little peaked to me.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2595
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,11:56   

Quote (paragwinn @ April 09 2011,10:53)
Quote (noncarborundum @ April 09 2011,12:43)
Not to mention the invasion of Jerusalem by the walking dead, according to Matthew 27.  You'd think this would garner at least a little extra-Biblical notice.

It was noted in the Monday morning Obituary section of the Jerusalem Post under "Retractions"

Laugh out loud funny.

(I didn't type

lol

'cause I didn't want you to wonder why I bothered posting the absolute value of zero.)

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2595
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,12:01   

Quote (Seversky @ April 10 2011,09:47)
KF continues to ignore PKB (pot/kettle/black) in his discussion of dating methods:
Let us remind ourselves of KFs definition of hyperskepticism:
   
Quote
Selective Hyperskepticism: that fallacy which seeks to reject or dismiss otherwise credible evidence by demanding an inappropriately high type or degree of warrant not applicable to matters of fact, i.e. the general type of question being discussed. Especially, where the same standard is not exerted in assessing substantially parallel cases that make claims that one is inclined to accept.

Heh. "And when I say 'inappropriately high type or degree of warrant', I mean  'pathetic level of detail'."

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2197
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,12:02   

Darth Vader's TIE fighter:

<o>

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,12:13   

Repost from '06.



I'll take them drinks coasters.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Seversky



Posts: 441
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,12:23   

Quote (Bob O'H @ April 10 2011,12:02)
Darth Vader's TIE fighter:

<o>

Starship Enterprise

o===o
  \ ! /
   ( )

  
Seversky



Posts: 441
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,12:29   

BA77 - speaks for itself
Quote
That is the whole point Jemi, we don’t see ANY evolution whatsoever in the present in the lab...

Guess you jest ain't lookin' hard enough, son

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,12:58   

Quote (Seversky @ April 10 2011,11:55)
Quote (Kristine @ April 10 2011,11:38)
Evolution will be dead in five years!

Yeah, that evolution was a cool dude.  "Live fast, die young and leave a good-looking corpse" was his motto.  But danged if that ain't the liveliest, best-lookingest corpse I ever did see!

Now that ID, though, well that's lookin' a little peaked to me.

ID is impotent, and sterile. Now wrap your head around that.  :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,13:03   

I'll put this here for right now:

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011....?hpt=C2

Quote


My Take: Jesus would believe in evolution and so should you


Editor's Note: Karl W. Giberson, Ph.D., is vice president of The BioLogos Foundation and is the author or coauthor of seven books, including The Language of Science and Faith....


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1204
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,13:23   

Quote (Seversky @ April 10 2011,18:23)
   
Quote (Bob O'H @ April 10 2011,12:02)
Darth Vader's TIE fighter:

<o>

Starship Enterprise

o===o
  \ ! /
   ( )

Dembscii.





Edited by Lou FCD on April 10 2011,21:25

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,13:27   

Gordon has now officially flipped his lid. This is of course because someone has revealed his True Name:

Quote
MS JR:

RE: A FORMAL COMPLAINT TO THE UD MANAGEMENT TEAM ON YOUR UNCIVIL BEHAVIOUR

You know or should know that I have repeatedly asked that my personal name not be used in this blog or other contexts; as this tends to trigger spam waves at my mailbox.

That is a simple, easily met request; one that requires no great effort. One that many other commenters here at UD easily comply with.

We now know as well that with ever more personal info online, providing personal information online is an invitation to identity theft and all the harm that flows from that.

Since you know or should know this — it is fairly obvious that your handle is not your real name (not many Jemimas around these days); there is no excuse for your uncivil behaviour. Behaviour that shows plainly the sort of ruthless amoral factionalism that Plato warned of as a direct result of the rise of evolutionary materialism among the avant garde of a culture, 2,350 years ago.

Moreover, we are not in a neutral situation.

You know, or should know that design theory advocates are often subjected to workplace harassment or worse, so “outing” tactics such as you have indulged above through disrespectfully using my personal name, can do real harm, and exerts a chilling effect.

Thankfully, I am beyond the reach of the NCSE and similar thought police. But the tactic could easily hurt others, so I have to take it seriously when it is exerted against me.

You have plainly allowed obvious rage and hostility to lead you into utterly inexcusable behaviour. Yesterday’s childish insults were not enough to satisfy your anger, so today you have resorted to outing tactics.

For shame!

I trust you will understand the consequences of such behaviour.

Good day, madam

GEM of TKI


L. O. L.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,13:33   

Quote (didymos @ April 10 2011,13:27)
Gordon has now officially flipped his lid. This is of course because someone has revealed his True Name:

Quote
MS JR:

RE: A FORMAL COMPLAINT TO THE UD MANAGEMENT TEAM ON YOUR UNCIVIL BEHAVIOUR

You know or should know that I have repeatedly asked that my personal name not be used in this blog or other contexts; as this tends to trigger spam waves at my mailbox.

That is a simple, easily met request; one that requires no great effort. One that many other commenters here at UD easily comply with.

We now know as well that with ever more personal info online, providing personal information online is an invitation to identity theft and all the harm that flows from that.

Since you know or should know this — it is fairly obvious that your handle is not your real name (not many Jemimas around these days); there is no excuse for your uncivil behaviour. Behaviour that shows plainly the sort of ruthless amoral factionalism that Plato warned of as a direct result of the rise of evolutionary materialism among the avant garde of a culture, 2,350 years ago.

Moreover, we are not in a neutral situation.

You know, or should know that design theory advocates are often subjected to workplace harassment or worse, so “outing” tactics such as you have indulged above through disrespectfully using my personal name, can do real harm, and exerts a chilling effect.

Thankfully, I am beyond the reach of the NCSE and similar thought police. But the tactic could easily hurt others, so I have to take it seriously when it is exerted against me.

You have plainly allowed obvious rage and hostility to lead you into utterly inexcusable behaviour. Yesterday’s childish insults were not enough to satisfy your anger, so today you have resorted to outing tactics.

For shame!

I trust you will understand the consequences of such behaviour.

Good day, madam

GEM of TKI


L. O. L.

Bonus vent:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-376623

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,13:45   

I wonder what "beyond the reach of the NCSE" means to him(/her). I know what that means to me.  ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,13:57   

Just for fun:

A google search of http://kairosfocus.blogspot.com/ for the terms gordon+mullings.  

If you're so concerned about NCSE Death Squads and waves of spam and cyberterror and all that other alarmist bullshit you go on about....stop putting your own fucking name on your own fucking website, idiot.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,13:59   

Gordon Mullings on why no dating method can be trusted:
Quote
Indium:

If this were not so saddening, it would be amusing.

Most of the calibration and ballpark thinking that phase locks results is happening long before we ever see formally reported results.

Recall, what happened to the 212 – 230 MY result for the strata on lake Rudolf. Didn’t match the fossils, so out it goes. Next, cherry-pick samples — subjectivity and plenty of opportunity to silently toss “bad” results. Then, when the evo narrative on the fossils demand a younger age, use fossils from over 100 miles away to recalibrate again.

Presto, we have the required 1.9 MYA. And Wiki dismissed the older 2.6 MY age as an error.

The difference is, in this case, it took years to get to the “consensus,” and the results in stages were published in Nature etc. In significant part, thanks to Richard Leakey’s theory.

So, we can see the sausage factory in action.

Do you understand why I am no longer so eager for sausage for lunch?

GEM of TKI


Tard.

Yet ID is true without a doubt!

EDIT: In another comment Gordo reveals more on why everybody has got it wrong:
Quote
(And, maybe the reason for my declaring myself a geochronological agnostic is clearer. Isn’t the revealed inconsistency in standards of warrant ever so telling. For me, all I am saying is that the models and timelines of the past are just that, not practically certain fact.)

No results found for "geochronological agnostic" are found in google! Gordon is the very first!

Gordon has now resorted to "Were you there?"

Quote
Putting that another way: Indium were you there? Did you see the deep past of origins? If not, do you have the record of those who were? Are we then dealing with that which is testable based on observation? So, then are not our results inherently tentative and untestable against reality, i.e. necessarily circular?


Amazing.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,14:05   

Alas, I am not beyond the reach of the NCSE.  They tap me for several hundred bucks a year, and if I don't pay they'll stop sending me their newsletter.

Curse you, Darwinian Pressure Group (Delta Pi Gamma)!

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,14:17   

Quote (didymos @ April 10 2011,13:57)
Just for fun:

A google search of http://kairosfocus.blogspot.com/ for the terms gordon+mullings.  

If you're so concerned about NCSE Death Squads and waves of spam and cyberterror and all that other alarmist bullshit you go on about....stop putting your own fucking name on your own fucking website, idiot.

If you chuckled at that, you'll laugh at this:

 
Quote
Barbados Free Press
Surfing The Barbados Blogsphere On A Thursday Evening

Nuthin’ to it…

[snip]

KairosFocus Blog

Gordon Mullings runs Kairosfocus Blog out of somewhere in the Caribbean… perhaps Jamaica? He has been commenting recently on BFP and today took on the subject of why God allows bad things to happen to good people. Gordon looks like one of those fanatical Christians who actually believe upon Jesus and not just on Sunday morning when mama drags him out of bed. I guess worse accusations could be made about someone.

Reminds me of a preacher I heard many years ago and a tract that someone shoved in my hand one Wednesday night when all I wanted to do was sneak out the back and meet a certain little lady at Grape Hall. The title of the tract was “If You Were Accused Of Being A Christian, Would A Court Have Enough Evidence To Convict?”

Probably not this week.

No, indeedy.

ETA - This webpage was created by Gordon Mullings.  :D

Edited by Kristine on April 10 2011,14:20

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,14:21   

Quote (Kristine @ April 10 2011,14:45)
I wonder what "beyond the reach of the NCSE" means to him(/her). I know what that means to me.  ;)


I'm wondering what Gordot thinks a "formal complaint" amounts to at UD. Does one file a police report? Is there paperwork? Is some sort of administrative due process activated?

Or maybe all caps and italics makes it "formal."

(Come to think of it, what does "management" mean over there, other than banagement?)

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,14:36   

Taking a cue from Christine, Gordon's *other* website is even worse about including his oh-so-secret-ID all over the fucking place.  Christ. Such a moron.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,14:44   

Quote (didymos @ April 10 2011,14:36)
Taking a cue from Christine, Gordon's *other* website is even worse about including his oh-so-secret-ID all over the fucking place.  Christ. Such a moron.

He's only doing this to brag about being KF. He thinks himself clever for his "reverse psychology." (Not unlike that "could you be convicted of being a Christian?" tract.)

He's not an idiot, exactly; he's a naive child.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,14:47   

I am out of touch for 48 hours, and I can see that although the thread has grown enormously thanks to JR, nothing has changed. Still no evidence that KF knows the least bit about hominids. Too funny! I stand in awe of JR!

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,15:05   

Clivebaby "explains" the contradictions in the Gospels:
Quote
The books do not contradict themselves, and besides, you’d have to have faith in them–that they were actually written for starters, and that they were about something in particular, and whether there was any actual events that they either do or do not conform to, to even say that there are contradictions that would have any meaning. All of this is taken on faith, as with any historical book. You have faith in lots of aspects even to claim any meaningful idea, even contradictions, to the texts of scripture.


So basically, after excising all the irrelevant, largely nonsensical verbiage (i.e. nearly all of it), said explanation amounts to....  "Nuh-uh!"

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,15:38   

I posted this for Clive:

"If their paradigm and premise is evolution, then yes. If you think this tragic, I agree with you."

Since Mr. Focus, after some 250 posts on this thread, still can't answer, perhaps you can?
If evolution is not the correct paradigm, then offer an explanation of the features, ages and distribution of the hominid fossils using another paradigm, one that explains the details better than evolutionary theory.

Of course, assuming this EVER makes it out of moderation.

  
socle



Posts: 322
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,15:59   

Quote (didymos @ April 10 2011,15:05)
Clivebaby "explains" the contradictions in the Gospels:
   
Quote
The books do not contradict themselves, and besides, you’d have to have faith in them–that they were actually written for starters, and that they were about something in particular, and whether there was any actual events that they either do or do not conform to, to even say that there are contradictions that would have any meaning. All of this is taken on faith, as with any historical book. You have faith in lots of aspects even to claim any meaningful idea, even contradictions, to the texts of scripture.


So basically, after excising all the irrelevant, largely nonsensical verbiage (i.e. nearly all of it), said explanation amounts to....  "Nuh-uh!"

I love that last sentence of Clive's.  Can't he get through a one-paragraph post without melting down into gibberish?

It seems he's trying to say that it's impossible to determine the accuracy of any historical text, unless you accept by "faith" that it is accurate.  Or something like that.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,16:01   

Gordon says that only written documents will do for dating purposes.

?

Indium
Quote
kf
Please focus. There is a very simple question on the table from me: Why do ice core dates, tree ring dates, C14 dates and U/Th dates show a good agreement before alignment/calibration?


Gordo:
Quote
Indium:

Were you there to know?

Do you have credible, contemporaneous records that will pass the ancient documents rule test?

Where also: “correlation is not causation.”

Do you appreciate the difference between a model of the past as filtered through the prevalent schools of thought and the real past?

And, do you see the significant parallels to other related topics where your side of the main issue is selectively very skeptical on much stronger correlations and KNOWN causal patterns?

GEM of TKI


--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,16:04   

Gordon has actually, *literally* resorted to "Were you there?".  Of course, being Gordon, he had to add some padding:
Quote

Indium:

Were you there to know?

Do you have credible, contemporaneous records that will pass the ancient documents rule test?

Where also: “correlation is not causation.”

Do you appreciate the difference between a model of the past as filtered through the prevalent schools of thought and the real past?

And, do you see the significant parallels to other related topics where your side of the main issue is selectively very skeptical on much stronger correlations and KNOWN causal patterns?

GEM of TKI


Gordon, this is *not* a good tactic for someone like you. Although, since you're an inveterate hypocrite, it's not an unexpected tactic.

ETA:  damn. ninja'd.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2011,16:09   

Also, I really want to know WTF Gordon thinks some *legal* principle about a particular exception to the hearsay rule has to do with dating methods.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
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