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Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,11:54   

Quote
However that appears to be the same with all anti-IDists (ie IDiots)

Anti-IDists are IDiots? What?
   
Quote
How many times have you been banned?

Rub it in, Zachriel!  :D

I think they have a soft spot in their hearts for me, I really do.
   
Quote
they think that they can erect any strawman of ID they want and then attack that strawman as if it really meany something- and the sad part is they really think they did attack something real.

Real like HIV-AIDS, Jonathan Wells?!

This is obviously a sore spot at UD. It also happens to be something I am seriously concerned about. They're engaging in semantic tricks while evolution encroaches upon people's lives.

A succinct review I found of Dembski's book, which I do intend to read, finally, over break. The review sums it up: "My main disappointment, however, is that Dembski is not interested in understanding life and evolution." I'm hip.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,12:24   

Quote
However that appears to be the same with all anti-IDists (ie IDiots)- they think that they can erect any strawman of ID they want and then attack that strawman as if it really meany something- and the sad part is they really think they did attack something real.

or
Quote
However that appears to be the same with all IDists (ie IDiots)- they think that they can erect any strawman of evolution they want and then attack that strawman as if it really meany something- and the sad part is they really think they did attack something real.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10758
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,13:23   

Joe G challenges Dave for leadership of the Tard Party:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2006....9624218

 
Quote
At 1:29 PM, Joe G said…

It appears that Imagination Deficit is the most censoring blog in the history of the internet.

I have yet to see of hear of an relevant comment being deleted or censored from UD...


Wow. I've yet to see invisible people. why do your find 'lost' things in the last place you look? Joe, I applaud you commitment to Tard, you intellectual self-harmer.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,13:37   

I have now been challenged to "prove" that life is its own meaning. (Huh?) Well, I'm kind of busy at the library working on my take-home final right now, so I'll just send a distress call:

Anyone out there up on their math? Because I'm not--and math is the only realm in which one "proves" things. :D

But seriously, this is a joke--right? This cannot be real.

It's performance art--gotta be.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
someotherguy



Posts: 398
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,13:46   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,13:37)
But seriously, this is a joke--right? This cannot be real.

It's performance art--gotta be.

Uhh, I think the phrase you're looking for here is "a bit of street theater." :p

--------------
Evolander in training

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,13:55   

Quote
"a bit of street theater"


Ah, yes! Thank you!

I do believe that I could make my case in an interpretive dance...any ideas how I do that at UD? I am willing!
 ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10758
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,14:08   

Oh Yes... a lap dance...
*clutches dollar bills excitedly*

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,14:33   

Quote
Oh Yes... a lap dance...
*clutches dollar bills excitedly*
 

Hold it right there, gadje! :D "Think a gypsy dances for coins?" (From the film Latcho Drom.)

Let's take it off-site, Richard.

Here you go.  ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,14:42   

Kristine - Got a 404, might want to check the link.
 
Quote
Gil-

And the destruction continues. The son of our praise band bass player, a freshman in high school, came home a couple of weeks ago and announced to his dad that science has proved that we are the product of “evolution” and that he no longer believes in God.


Gil's Article

How does a high school freshman lose his faith when he sees the truth of evolution?  Let's see:

1.  He has been taught by leaders in his faith that if evolution is true, God doesn't exist.

2.  He was not taught any positive reasons for belief, just reasons not to believe

3.  He doesn't have any knowledge of "grownups" who have any better answers or experience in their faith than what he has seen in his own, young, life

How many of these are the fault of the materialists?

Luckily, Gil will come to the rescue.

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,14:51   

Okay, how many of you guys went rushing right over there?  :D

Quote
Kristine - Got a 404, might want to check the link.


"Easy, tiger!"

I meant to send you to a 404, toots. I looked up that page especially. Of all the posts at UD, that's my absolute fav!

Punt!  :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,15:16   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,15:51)
I meant to send you to a 404, toots. I looked up that page especially. Of all the posts at UD, that's my absolute fav!

I bow before your superior comedic intellect.

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,15:20   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,13:37)
I have now been challenged to "prove" that life is its own meaning. (Huh?) Well, I'm kind of busy at the library working on my take-home final right now, so I'll just send a distress call:

Anyone out there up on their math? Because I'm not--and math is the only realm in which one "proves" things. :D

But seriously, this is a joke--right? This cannot be real.

It's performance art--gotta be.

Quote
kharley

Please confine your comments to the topic of the thread. It isn’t HIV or Dembski’s opinion on HIV. If you want a soapbox for that topic find it somewhere else.


from the original DaveTardese:

Yeah, we monitor the threads here at UD to a bullshit tolerance of less than 997,892 parts per million.  So, go do your sciency stuff elsewhere.

homo

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,15:27   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,11:54)
I think they have a soft spot in their hearts for me, I really do.

I think you're the closest they ever get to a girl that they don't have to inflate first.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,16:05   

Not long ago, DS enforced the scientific aims of UD:
     
Quote
Reminder To Stay On Message
by DaveScot on January 8th, 2006 · 11 Comments

This applies to everyone writing articles as well as writing comments. Professor Dembski excepted of course.

The topic and purpose of this weblog is to instruct and promote the intelligent design work of Bill Dembski in particular and the ID movement in general. We are trying to convince that world that ID is based on math, science, and logic. While the implications tend to attract religious devotees in large number ID is not about religion. I consider atheism to be a contrarian religion and ID offends them as one might expect of anything that pleases the faithful. If you want a soapbox for your favorite religion (including atheism) go somewhere else. I realize that it’s hard to divorce our innermost faith from our writing and will try to tolerate a generous amount of spillage but the bottom line is if you’re warned to ease up, ease up or the axe will fall. Professor Dembski advised me to be ruthless in policing this blog. I’d naively hoped it wouldn’t come to that but as usual he was right. Stay on topic. Feel free to tell me I’m off topic if I wander but don’t expect me to ban myself if I don’t.

That was then. This is now:
     
Quote
The Atheism Delusion: The Destructive Power of Materialist Indoctrination
by GilDodgen on December 8th, 2006 · 18 Comments

I was an atheist, brainwashed by the establishment, into my 40s...Since 1994 my Christian walk has been the most rewarding experience of my life, and I can’t imagine life without it. Sunday morning is the highlight of my week. Contrary to what Richard Dawkins thinks, our Calvary Chapel ministry has produced nothing but good. I’ve seen nothing but positive influences in people’s lives. I’ve seen marriages and families healed, drug addicts liberated, and people serving and supporting each other in many ways. Safe Harbor, an international relief organization, was founded through our church and pastor Gary Kusunoki. I play keyboards in the praise band, and our worship team has been active in Teen Challenge, a Christian drug-rehab program that has an 85% longterm success rate, unheard of in the secular world. I mention all this in support of my claim in the title of this post, that materialist indoctrination is destructive, and deprives people of all the gifts, opportunities and rewards I’ve listed above.

At which point Gil handed me a few tracts.
 
This goes beyond apologetics. Consider yourselves to have been witnessed to by Uncommon Descent.

Not that ID has ANYTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION...but 2,000 years ago a man died on a Cross.  Can't someone stand up for Him now?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
stevestory



Posts: 10212
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,16:27   

Quote (ScaryFacts @ Dec. 09 2006,15:42)
Quote
Gil-

And the destruction continues. The son of our praise band bass player, a freshman in high school, came home a couple of weeks ago and announced to his dad that science has proved that we are the product of “evolution” and that he no longer believes in God.

Reminds me of Gillus Dodgenus, writing on Ye Olde Uncommonne Descente Blogge in 1712:

Quote
And the destructionne continues. The son of our praise band lute player, a freshman at university, came home a forte-nighte ago and announced to his father that science has proved that the Earthe orbits the Sonne and that he no longer believes in God.

   
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,16:42   

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 09 2006,17:27)
 
Quote (ScaryFacts @ Dec. 09 2006,15:42)
   
Quote
Gil-

And the destruction continues. The son of our praise band bass player, a freshman in high school, came home a couple of weeks ago and announced to his dad that science has proved that we are the product of “evolution” and that he no longer believes in God.

Reminds me of Gillus Dodgenus, writing on Ye Olde Uncommonne Descente Blogge in 1712:

   
Quote
And the destructionne continues. The son of our praise band lute player, a freshman at university, came home a forte-nighte ago and announced to his father that science has proved that the Earthe orbits the Sonne and that he no longer believes in God.

Dear Sir, thou maketh me to revolve upon the boards, chorteling mine arse off of

   
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,16:45   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,12:54)
I think they have a soft spot in their hearts for me, I really do.

And a hard spot in their...oh, nevermind, it was too obvious.

   
Bebbo



Posts: 161
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,17:29   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,10:37)
Bad Kristine, bad. She belly danced off the edge of the earth again.

Sorry but I want to know! No, I don't really expect an answer, but if they're going to wave the ghastly materialist flag, I get to wave the ghastly Jonathan Wells' HIV-theory flag. They want a big tent, big enough to cover the whole earth? I get to dance in it, then.

This stuff affects peoples' lives. Destroying science in the name of science will hurt people. Don't they see that? Do they care at all?

(And I'm proud that I slipped in the Tripoli Six over there.  I'm living my values, at least.)

And they need to lighten up over there BTW. What a bunch of stuffed shirts.      
Quote
sadly this is a perfect example of an atheist who has not used logic and reason to arrive at the inevitable conclusion that logic and reason are meaningless in the atheist’s world.


I'm supposed to wear sackcloth and ashes because I'm an atheist, or I'm not a "true" atheist? Sheesh. I guess assuming I ever get my fiction published I should ban my own books, or I'm not a "true" writer. Or maybe I'm talking to a bunch of baptists and what I really need to do is adopt the American abbreviated burkha (blouse, skirt below the knee, sensible pumps) and cover it up, and never move certain areas of my body ever, ever again. You whore, Kristine!

Well, this is news to me. According to that guy at UD logic and reason are meaningless to an atheist. I didn't realise we need a belief in God to make logic and reason meaningful.

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,20:24   

Michaels7    
Quote
I’m being asked to believe a sea urchin matches better with me than a fly, which is not something I want to resemble anyway. But the absurdity of current genome statistics tells us this does not compute at all in terms of morphology. At least the fly has fully expressed legs, eyes.

Except that this result was predicted based on morphology. Sea urchins start as embryonic bilaterates then mature into radial symmetry. However, unlike flies, but like people, Sea urchins are Deuterostomates (mouth second). Flies are Protostomates (mouth first). This refers to the way the mouth and anus develop in the embryo. If you developed like a fly, you would eat with the 'wrong' end of your digestive tube. And visa versa.

Another genomic confirmation of the nested hierarchy of descent.

(Meanwhile, Joseph is still trying to figure out a conventional paternal family tree. I think I may have determined his area of confusion. He isn't sure how to form a set, in this case, of a father's sons. We can even define a specific criteria, such as legal paternity.)

--------------
Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
Aardvark



Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,21:48   

Quote (Zachriel @ Dec. 09 2006,09:41)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 09 2006,00:29)
Here's some vintage Tard for you...

http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/729

Only Dave and Bill O'Reilly get this good. High praise indeed.


DaveScot:              
Quote
When I worked at Dell every conference room had a sign in it which read “Attack Ideas - Not the People Who Hold Them”. I’d never seen that saying before but I presumed it was a common saying. Just a few minutes ago, out of curiosity, I googled it and found only four hits on the world wide web. And three of the four were quotes of me!


Let's start out with this interesting bit of Google-uniqueness: Attack IDeas - Not the People Who Hold Them.

Wow!! How Google-original is that? About as Google-original as I presumed it was a common saying or And three of the four were quotes of me or Just a few minutes ago, out of curiosity. (This tells us more about the nature of human languages and how varied they are, even when filled with stock phraseology and banal ideas.)

But more to the point, on a thread titled Attack IDeas - Not the People Who Hold Them, DaveScot blogs "And the ones cheering about courts censoring it on establishment clause grounds are downright despicable," also Google-unique.

Quote
Leanan
News Editor
News Editor


Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 3693


PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:38 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote
Jay, didn't your mother ever teach you to attack ideas - not the people who hold them?


Only 2 years late.

:D

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,22:52   

Quote
I think you're the closest they ever get to a girl that they don't have to inflate first.

The Inflatable Designer is female?
   
Quote
According to that guy at UD logic and reason are meaningless to an atheist. I didn't realise we need a belief in God to make logic and reason meaningful.

Yeah, well, I just sent in my last post at UD. Swan song about how life is to be lived instead of sitting around coming up with all these %^$# purposes for our lives that I worked so hard rebelling against in my dog-kicking small town! Because where I grew up, girls weren't supposed to be dumb but they also weren't supposed to be too smart (and certainly not writers, dancers, or actresses). Because here in Minnesota, an "interesting" life is a nice way of saying "you're soul is devil's barbeque." Because I was not a hit in my hometown.

Which was this center of nowhere, by the way.

North St. Paul snowman sums it up: white,
rotund,
cold,
inert.

Yeah, #### doesn't seem so bad.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 09 2006,23:12   

Oh, BTW--Christmas time in Minnesota means that it's someone-stole-the-baby-Jesus-from-someone's-nativity-scene-on-the-front-lawn time of year again.

Usually the poor baby Jesus is recovered. Once, it was found on some lady's kitchen table while she was being busted for drug dealing.

This dim x-mas bulb chick was sorting her drug money at the table next to the Savior. The cops asked her if the baby Jesus was stolen and (ScaryFacts, you'll appreciate this) she denied it. I learned about this at work, and I asked, "Did she deny it three times?" :p

Not-shiniest-star on the Christmas tree chick was arrested and Jesus was returned to the custody of his front lawn. The guy who stole it is still loose. True story.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
someotherguy



Posts: 398
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,01:16   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,22:52)
Quote
I think you're the closest they ever get to a girl that they don't have to inflate first.

The Inflatable Designer is female?
     
Quote
According to that guy at UD logic and reason are meaningless to an atheist. I didn't realise we need a belief in God to make logic and reason meaningful.

Yeah, well, I just sent in my last post at UD. Swan song about how life is to be lived instead of sitting around coming up with all these %^$# purposes for our lives that I worked so hard rebelling against in my dog-kicking small town! Because where I grew up, girls weren't supposed to be dumb but they also weren't supposed to be too smart (and certainly not writers, dancers, or actresses). Because here in Minnesota, an "interesting" life is a nice way of saying "you're soul is devil's barbeque." Because I was not a hit in my hometown.

Which was this center of nowhere, by the way.

North St. Paul snowman sums it up: white,
rotund,
cold,
inert.

Yeah, #### doesn't seem so bad.

Would you believe me if I told you that I graduated from high school at North High in North St. Paul (go Polars!. . .or something).  ####, I use to live in an apartment only about a hundred yards from the school.  I cashiered at the Super Target that's just down the road from the school.  Weird. . . :)

--------------
Evolander in training

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1396
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,04:30   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,09:51)
Okay, how many of you guys went rushing right over there?  :D

 
Quote
Kristine - Got a 404, might want to check the link.


"Easy, tiger!"

I meant to send you to a 404, toots. I looked up that page especially. Of all the posts at UD, that's my absolute fav!

Punt!  :p

Caught me too!

How come you still get to post at UD anyhow?

BTW, everyone, Dave called by to say "Hi" and sends his warm regards, as ever.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1396
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,04:42   

Quote
How come you still get to post at UD anyhow?


Never mind :)

  
Bing



Posts: 144
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,07:34   

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 09 2006,11:54)
I think they have a soft spot in their hearts for me, I really do.

Well, we have ample evidence in this thread of the soft spots they all have in their heads.  

I would guess that they also have soft spots in their trousers that no amount of Viagra could overcome.

Why shouldn't they also have soft spots in their hearts (which, BTW, is so complex it is impossible to have arisen by chance so it must be designed!  Praise be to G*d)

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,08:59   

Here you will find a very interesting essay, What Good is Religion? An atheist's case for the value of religious diversity by Dmitri Tymoczko.

I find that it speaks to the futility of the "conversation" that is taking place throughout the blogosphere between advocates of ID and religion on one hand and science/unbelievers on the other, as well as to love/hate relationship that is evident in this conversation. It also outlines a position relevant to the recent shouting match between "evangelical" and "Neville Chamberlain" atheists, activated by Dawkins' recent book, well in advance of that conflict.  

I met the author last night, a composer with an impressive background in philosophy (Harvard, Oxford University, Berkeley) who currently teaches at Princeton. The orchestra in which my teenage daughter plays (the Contemporary Youth Orchestra in Cleveland) performed the world premier of one of his compositions, and I had the opportunity to ask him about his experience as a student of, among many others, Hilary Putnam, whom I have admired. This morning I've been poking around his website and found this essay.  Serendipity.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,10:01   

As the year 2006 draws to a close, let us pause to reflect on the great strides made recently by the science of intelligent design.  A mere four years ago, when ID still languished under a cloud of disrepute, Dr. William A. Dembski published this prescient map of ID's road to respectability:

Becoming a Disciplined Science: Prospects, Pitfalls, and Reality Check for ID

In it, he helpfully outlined a set of objective standards by which the progress of ID could be judged:

Quote
Objective Measures of Progress (OMP)
How do we gauge how well we are doing in developing ID as a scientific research program? We need some objective measures of progress. Rather than lay out such measures in pedantic detail, let me indicate what they are under four rubrics, each followed by a series of questions:

Intellectual Vitality
Have we become boring? Have we run out of things to say? Is the fount of fresh ideas drying up? Are we constantly repeating ourselves? Are people who once were excited about what we're doing no longer excited? Or do we have the intellectual initiative? Are we setting the agenda for the problems being discussed? Are we ourselves energized by our research? Is there nothing we'd rather be doing than work on intelligent design? Are our ideas strong enough to engage the best and the brightest on the other side?

Intellectual Standards
Are we holding ourselves to high intellectual standards? Are we in the least self-critical about our work? Are we sober or immodest about our work? Do we demand precision and rigor from our each other? Do we examine each other's work with intense critical scrutiny and speak our minds freely in assessing it? Or do we try to keep all our interactions civil, gentlemanly, and diplomatic (perhaps so as not to give the appearance of dissension in our ranks)? Does the mood of our movement alternate between the smug and the indignant -- smug when we hold the upper hand, indignant when we are criticized? Do we react to adverse criticism like first-time novelists who are dismayed to discover that their masterpiece has been trashed by the critics? Or do we take adverse criticism as an occasion for tightening and improving our work?

Exiting the Ghetto
Do we refuse to be marginalized within an intellectual ghetto or second-class subculture? Are scholars and scientists on the other side actually getting to know us? Once they get to know us, do they still demonize us or do they think that we have an interesting, albeit perverse, point of view? Is intelligent design's appeal international? Does it cross religious boundaries? Or is it increasingly confined to American evangelicalism? Who owns ID? Are we trying to get our ideas into the scientific mainstream? Are we continuing to plug away at getting our work published in the mainstream peer-reviewed literature (despite the deck being stacked against us)? Or are we seeking safe havens where we can publish our work easily, yet mainly for the benefit of each other? At the International Society for Complexity, Information, and Design, for instance, we encourage contributors to the society's journal also to submit their articles to the mainstream literature. John Bracht, for instance, recently had his lengthy design-theoretic appraisal of Stuart Kauffman's latest book, Investigations, accepted in the Santa Fe Institute's journal Complexity. This is precisely what needs to happen.

Attracting Talent
Are we continually attracting new talent to intelligent design's scientific research program? Does that talent include intellects of the highest caliber? Is that talent distributed across the disciplines or confined only to certain disciplines? Are under-represented disciplines getting filled? What about talent that's been with the movement in the past? Is it staying with the movement or becoming disillusioned and aligning itself elsewhere? Do the same names associated with intelligent design keep coming up in print or are we constantly adding new names? Are we fun to be around? Do we have a colorful assortment of characters? Other things being equal, would you rather party with a design theorist or a Darwinist?

There you have it -- an objective set of standards for judging ID's progress.  What do you say now, scoffers?

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1396
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,10:10   

Quote
What do you say now, scoffers?


Prescience, indeed!

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 10 2006,10:19   

Quote
As the year 2006 draws to a close, let us pause to reflect on the great strides made recently by the science of intelligent design.  A mere four years ago, when ID still languished under a cloud of disrepute, Dr. William A. Dembski published this prescient map of ID's road to respectability:

Intellectual Vitality
Yes. Yes. Yes.  Yes.  Yes. No. No. No. No. No.

Intellectual Standards
No. No. No. No. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. No.

Exiting the Ghetto
Yes. Yes. No. Yes. Yes. No. Who knows? No. No. Yes.

Attracting Talent
No. No. No. No. Who cares? Yes. FUN!? What!? Weed?

That last one explains a lot.  I'll party with you I-Dudes.  Should be VERY INTERESTING.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
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