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Zachriel Posts: 2715 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2006,21:10    PaV   Quote Just as a reminder, one of the things that Darwinian theory predicts is vast numbers of intermediate forms present in the fossil record. Oops. 'Darwinian' is a term with a variety of meanings, and they are often conflated. In any case, Darwin devoted a whole chapter to The Imperfection Of The Geological Record.. He also discusses the meaning of "intermediate varieties" in terms of ancestry using the fantail and pouter pigeons as illustrative examples. And, of course, modern biology has advanced considerably since Darwin. It would be nice if PaV and others had at least a rudimentary understanding of evolutionary theory, at least catch up to the scientific literature circa 1859. -------------- Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent. There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2006,21:41    I couldn't get a coherent response when I asked about the Templeton Foundation. Did a VP state that the Templeton Foundation solicited research proposals? Or was this just a "lie" printed by the NYT?  The link to the NYT article did not constitute evidence, according to Mr. Scot. It seems that if a Templeton Foundation VP said so, then it probably happened. My posts stopped showing up after that....

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2006,22:05    Quote A comment that wasn’t worth saving   I thought Jesus loves and saves all the little comments.   Quote It would be nice if PaV and others had at least a rudimentary understanding of evolutionary theory, at least catch up to the scientific literature circa 1859. First they'd have to recognize that their (and my) hero Isaac Newton (the real one) said that, in order for his theory of gravity to work, action at a distance was required. Oops. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

blipey Posts: 2061 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2006,22:22    Quote I thought Jesus loves and saves all the little comments. I think it's all the little comets.... Quote First they'd have to recognize that their (and my) hero Isaac Newton (the real one) said that, in order for his theory of gravity to work, action at a distance was required. Oops. my kicking your ass from my keyboard.  how's that for distance, homo? -dt -------------- But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

keiths Posts: 2041 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2006,22:39    Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 05 2006,20:33) The Baylor search page stuff, I don't get it, what's going on? Dembski: Quote Some internet gossip is going around suggesting that I am about to start a “new job.” My job, and one I intend to keep for a long time, is as Research Professor in Philosophy at Southwestern Seminary. This is where I teach and this is where I derive my salary and benefits. I very much enjoy my students and colleagues... In addition to this “day job,” I have formal and informal affiliations with many groups and organizations. Because of some health issues in my family, we continue to live in the Waco area (Ft. Worth is about 90 miles north, requiring of me a long commute to Southwestern Seminary). Because Baylor is in Waco and because I was on the faculty of Baylor for over five years, I continue to stay in touch with Baylor colleagues, some of whom I collaborate with in research. Wes was just pointing out that you don't get listed in the Baylor faculty/staff directory simply by "staying in touch with Baylor colleagues."  Dembski may not be ditching the West Southwest Bible and Taxidermy College, but it does look like he's starting something new at Baylor. -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

menglander Posts: 3 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,01:30    Quote (lkeithlu @ Dec. 05 2006,21:41) I couldn't get a coherent response when I asked about the Templeton Foundation. Did a VP state that the Templeton Foundation solicited research proposals? Or was this just a "lie" printed by the NYT?  The link to the NYT article did not constitute evidence, according to Mr. Scot. It seems that if a Templeton Foundation VP said so, then it probably happened. My posts stopped showing up after that.... Try this, towards the middle.  3 million dollars. http://web.archive.org/web....dex.asp and then here: http://www.cambridge-templeton-consortium.org/index.php -M

Bob O'H Posts: 2240 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,05:10    Quote (keiths @ Dec. 05 2006,22:39) Wes was just pointing out that you don't get listed in the Baylor faculty/staff directory simply by "staying in touch with Baylor colleagues."  Dembski may not be ditching the West Southwest Bible and Taxidermy College, but it does look like he's starting something new at Baylor. ...in the Dean's office of Engineering and Computer Science. Engineers and computer scientists?!  You couldn't make it up, could you? Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Bob O'H Posts: 2240 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,05:23    Quote (Zachriel @ Dec. 05 2006,18:47) Apparently, 'Darwinism' went down to defeat in around 1918 — just like the German army. ... and was resurrected in the same year by R.A. Fisher. Darwinism was in trouble then, because it seemed to be at odds with genetics.  But Fisher showed how the two could be reconciled, and started the field of population genetics.  And things have moved on a bit since then. Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,05:48    To late I'm banned from UD (yeah, I have a different user name here because I couldn't use my usual two letter KL, like on PT) Thanks for the Templeton links anyway, but I suspect DaveScot doesn't anto to see them anyhow.

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,06:11    oops that was "want to" It's early I have enough trouble typing when I'm fully awake

Zachriel Posts: 2715 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,06:41    Quote (menglander @ Dec. 06 2006,01:30)       Quote (lkeithlu @ Dec. 05 2006,21:41) I couldn't get a coherent response when I asked about the Templeton Foundation. Did a VP state that the Templeton Foundation solicited research proposals? Or was this just a "lie" printed by the NYT?  The link to the NYT article did not constitute evidence, according to Mr. Scot. It seems that if a Templeton Foundation VP said so, then it probably happened. My posts stopped showing up after that.... Try this, towards the middle.  3 million dollars. http://web.archive.org/web....dex.asp and then here: http://www.cambridge-templeton-consortium.org/index.php -M KL: December 5, 2006 @ 6:44 pm   Quote Didn’t the Templeton Foundation ask for proposals? They have the ability to fund such work. I understand that nothing was submitted. Note that KL uses a questionmark. DaveScot: December 5, 2006 @ 7:05 pm   Quote I’ve never been able to verify that rumor. Templeton goes to great pains here to disown ID...However, if you have anything from the Templeton Foundation saying they were soliciting proposals for ID research feel free to provide it here. "Feel free." But how long will the feeling last? KL: December 5, 2006 @ 7:44 pm   Quote Here: nytimes.com KL provides an article from the New York Times which includes a quote from Charles L. Harper Jr., senior vice president at the Templeton Foundation. "From the point of view of rigor and intellectual seriousness, the intelligent design people don't come out very well in our world of scientific review," he said. DaveScot: December 5, 2006 @ 7:53 pm   Quote KL, I asked for something from the Templeton Foundation. Ultimatum. DaveScot: December 6, 2006 @ 6:31 am   Quote KL is no longer with us. KL is not allowed to sleep in. -------------- Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent. There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

Zachriel Posts: 2715 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,06:47    Quote (lkeithlu @ Dec. 06 2006,05:48) To late I'm banned from UD (yeah, I have a different user name here because I couldn't use my usual two letter KL, like on PT) Thanks for the Templeton links anyway, but I suspect DaveScot doesn't anto to see them anyhow. Hi lkeithlu (may I call you KL?). Actually DaveScot will see the links: he does read this forum. That's why we all know he will graciously print a retraction and an apology for his overreaction. That's just the kind of guy he is. -------------- Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent. There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,07:01    Yeah, I'll hold my breath on that one. Incidently, I did tell him that John Templeton is from my county (no kidding! and that maybe I could ask. He doesn't actually live here, though, and I suspect that he would not appreciate my intrusion if he did. Worth a shot. Well, I guess I'll go to work, feeling sorry for myself that I am no longer welcome at UD. Ooooh, the shame of it all...

Zachriel Posts: 2715 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,07:24    DaveScot   Quote You are free to quote me where I said you were being intellectually dishonest but you are not free to translate that into more inflammatory verbage. Ha, ha!! DaveScot, you kill me. You must be a parody. You just gotta be! -------------- Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent. There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,08:10    Ha, Zachriel banned by UD three times eh? Lucky you. My one post never saw the light of day on ID emperor UnDressed. Maybe the signature was a give away ...Vajrachchedika. (The Diamond cutter) In any case, the fundinistas over at UD will have to have give each other medals for their great deeds soon, now that they have defeated Darwinism.  <giggle> Pocket dictator Dave Tard can pin a multicolored crepe  on WAD for the most overblown CV since Anne Nicole Smiths career high point of charity, benevolence and relief to Octogenarians performed with great piety. Well she did get her picture in a popular culture rag, that's about all Dembski can claim. One of the blogocrats and petty boot lickers could prick stuffed shirted Il Duce with an iron crucifix, our own Phlegyas-Tard, IP sentry and ferry captain of the ID sewer underworld (otherwise known as the River Stynks) where each post is measured and weighed for a lifetime of subjugation to their g$d ......the almighty (self immolating) Bush. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Zachriel Posts: 2715 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,08:33    DaveScot is typically using human ignorance and the limitations of human technical ability as evidence for Intelligent Design. DaveScot   Quote I anticipated the excuse “it’s just too hard, that’s why we failed” in the first comment. I proposed a 10 year program funded at a billion/year and if progress is slow then double it. I don’t want any lame excuses for failure. If it’s that difficult that 10 years and 20 billion can’t come up with a solution then it’s probably time to admit there might not be a solution and ID is true. Joseph   Quote I am still wondering why all the predictions made by Gonzalez and Richards in “The Privileged Planet” cannot be considered ID predictions. Um, because the predictions are not testable with any reasonable extension of human technology. -- 1000AD Bishop: Angels push planets on crystal spheres. Monk: I'm not so sure. Bishop: Well, all you have to do is fly into the Heavens and look, then. Monk: No one can do that. Maybe one day we can find a way to enlarge the images of the planets, "magnify" them as it were. Bishop: I'll fund your efforts, but if after a year or two you haven't demonstrated your point, then that will prove that angels push planets on crystal spheres. Then we'll burn you for heresy. Monk: Gulp! -- Zachriel, angel that rules over memory, presides over the planet Jupiter. Member AMF, Angelic Motive Force: Pushing planets on celestial spheres - one epoch at a time. http://zachriel.blogspot.com/ -------------- Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent. There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,09:03    DTurd Quote I anticipated the excuse “it’s just too hard, that’s why we failed” in the first comment. I proposed a 10 year program funded at a billion/year and if progress is slow then double it. I don’t want any lame excuses for failure. If it’s that difficult that 10 years and 20 billion can’t come up with a solution then it’s probably time to admit there might not be a solution and ID is true. The prediction by ID that Harvard will fail is a valid one. There’s no flaw in it. A valid scientific hypothesis is in principle falsifiable. In fact it might not be falsifiable because it isn’t false. Harvard’s project is a valid attempt to falsify it. The more valiant their attempt the better it supports ID being true. Thus I want to see a heroic, herculean effort of extraordinary proportion put into falsification of ID because I’m confident that no effort will succeed due to the simple fact that you can’t falsify something that isn’t false. Every honest NDE pundit should be 100% behind me on this. If they aren’t it can only be because they suspect that no amount of effort at finding an undirected means of chemical evolution will succeed. They are in fact afraid of the implications of possible failure. What the? How old is this guy again? And did he really take his SAT test when he was 35 years old? That HAS to be the most bone headed statement from the ID daycare centre yet. Lets see, IF testing chemical pathways for abiogenesis fails,  imaginary leaping pink zombies really potentially exist in DT's mind? Yup, that's a prediction I can live with. Better get that paper up to scratch DT, I can just make out the Nobel committee on the shimmering horizon, it looks like they are walking on water. What are you going to title the paper? ID = X; where X is the unknown unknown. or The Idiots guide to Gaps for g$ds. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Zachriel Posts: 2715 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,09:25    Quote (lkeithlu @ Dec. 06 2006,07:01) Yeah, I'll hold my breath on that one. Incidently, I did tell him that John Templeton is from my county (no kidding! and that maybe I could ask. He doesn't actually live here, though, and I suspect that he would not appreciate my intrusion if he did. Worth a shot. Well, I guess I'll go to work, feeling sorry for myself that I am no longer welcome at UD. Ooooh, the shame of it all... Templeton Foundation   Quote Thus while it is our judgment that the general process of biological evolution is well attested by many lines of research, it is not clear to what extent the process of evolution or the study of the history of life on earth may reveal hints of broader cosmic, perhaps even divine, purpose and intention. It is therefore possible that, from time to time, the Foundation will support well-designed projects or research that some others may label as “intelligent design." ... While the Foundation does not generally support theologically-motivated critiques of evolutionary science, we do fund open and rigorous debate concerning the “ID” position. -------------- Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent. There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,10:37    Checkin’ out the “womens’ programs” at the SBTS site (‘cause they got women’s studies of a sort, don’t cha know):     Quote Women in this generation need women teachers who are not only committed to the importance of studying God's Word but who are also formally trained to do biblical exposition. Woman-to-woman teaching is the biblical method of choice (Tit. 2:3-5). Gaaa. In other words, no matter what Kristine would study there (just hypothetically, people) she would in all likelihood be tutored at no extra charge in The Female Hate Stare 101. Because all I have to do is walk into some situations where there are a lot of women (especially a church) to rub other women the wrong way. Don’t know how I do it. I get along much better with men; always have. (And that means men of all stripes; I’m a conservative magnet. I dated more conservatives in college than liberals.) Why? Beats me. I can remember who made the comment here about us all being malajusted at 17 (moi , guilty! I was the biggest dork!, and some of us are still malajusted misfits but I would just die in this environment. People go where they feel wanted and it’s a mystery to me how someone would reject an educated father’s acceptance of evolution and run to this kind of cloister, while at the same time I rejected my working-class father’s creationism and, without any real intention to do so, ended up a bohemian. When I watched Dembski’s sermon it brought back memories of church that weren’t as unpleasant as I expected (I wanted to be accepted by the people in my congregation as much as anybody else), but also reminded me how many hours I sat there knowing the Bible upside down and backwards yet also knowing that I was not one of these people, that I didn't believe this stuff, and had no one else around who was like me. So why am I different? Would anyone at UD say that I was designed that way? Doubt it. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Zachriel Posts: 2715 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,10:41    Quote (lkeithlu @ Dec. 06 2006,07:01) Yeah, I'll hold my breath on that one. DaveScot     Quote Grants made under the program ... Awards Made Purpose in the Cosmos as Indicated by Life's Origins Fine Tuning the Molecules of Behavior in Animals DaveScot     Quote As you can see here I’m not afraid of exposing the truth. I only insist that it is indeed the verifiable truth. You may have been right, see, but you still needed to be banned, see. It just had to happen that way because, well, you were right, see. And as for DaveScot's assertion that "All the evidence so far provided indicates that the offer was not widely disseminated and was quickly withdrawn due to political pressure," well, that was "just rhetoric". But don't worry. DaveScot is not afraid, you see. He is not afraid. He is not afraid of the likes of you. Or anything else, see. DaveScot is not afraid. -------------- Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent. There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

pwe Posts: 46 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,11:41    Quote (Zachriel @ Dec. 05 2006,18:47) G. K. Chesterton     Quote There are many other signs of this confession of failure, for which I have hardly left myself space. Apparently, 'Darwinism' went down to defeat in around 1918 — just like the German army. Thanks for the link   Here's another quote: Quote My concern for the moment, however, is only with a certain controversial tone; the tone of a gentleman who remarked to me, in a stoic and almost tragic voice: "I am the Last Darwinian." I do not for a moment suggest that these Darwinians are no longer Darwinians. But if this is how the Darwinians talk while they are still Darwinians, how do you suppose the anti-Darwinians are talking? Well, you gotta hand it to them: when they are funny, they are really funny. Now we only need some joke about William Dembski saying, "I am the Last Paleyan". - pwe

pwe Posts: 46 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,11:48    Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 06 2006,10:37) So why am I different? Would anyone at UD say that I was designed that way? Doubt it. Oh, sure they would The Creator had designed you Kristine of all people to be evangelist of postmodern estrangement in exactly your congregation. See, we aren't really maladjusted, the apparent maladjustment is part of the design (and anyway, why isn't it ebverybody else that's maladjusted?) - pwe

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,13:00    Kristine, Quote Gaaa. In other words, no matter what Kristine would study there (just hypothetically, people) she would in all likelihood be tutored at no extra charge in The Female Hate Stare 101. Because all I have to do is walk into some situations where there are a lot of women (especially a church) to rub other women the wrong way. Don’t know how I do it. I get along much better with men; always have. (And that means men of all stripes; I’m a conservative magnet. I dated more conservatives in college than liberals.) Why? Beats me. {sexism} Are you confident and pretty with big tits? That usually does it my experience.* {/sexism} Louis *If so call this number.... {SMACK}....Sorry dear! Ah humour. -------------- Bye.

Lou FCD Posts: 5409 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,13:05    Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 06 2006,10:37) Gaaa. In other words, no matter what Kristine would study there (just hypothetically, people) she would in all likelihood be tutored at no extra charge in The Female Hate Stare 101. Yep, Kristine.  Women go to colleges like that to get their Mrs.* Degree (as we used to say when I attended Blow Job Bob Jones U.) They weren't really encouraged to learn much, and most of the ones I knew never bothered to continue once they hooked their man. They were well versed in setting the table, however. Out of the four women I actually "dated" (that consists of supervised visitation in the student center and writing love notes through the campus mail) whilst there, none graduated, and none continued more than a semester past their engagement.  (One of those engagements was to me, though it ended badly a few months later.) *Oh, that's pronounced "Em Ar Ess" just FYI. -------------- Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound Work-friendly photography NSFW photography

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,13:50    You asked for it, Louis: Quote {sexism} Are you confident and pretty with big tits? That usually does it my experience.* {/sexism} /spunk maximized You already know the answer to two--you just want info on the third. Well, sorry! /spunk background   I know all about Em Are Ess degrees, but they must have some female graduates. I wonder what their First Lady would make of me. Lou, did you really go to Bob Jones U? *Horror film shriek* I'm going to crank-call Louis tonight after class. That okay? -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,14:04    Quote I'm going to crank-call Louis tonight after class. That okay? I'd wager a pint and a shot of Bushmill's that Louis is already in his trenchcoat, with fake pant legs held up by scrumptious Victoria's Secret garters. He stole my "look," the bastard.   -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,14:29    Quote DaveScot is not afraid. next episode: DaveScott Springerbot IS "the Decider"! -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,14:50    Kristine, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ok I need a new laptop. I just did a spit take with Bateman's Hop Bine Bitter (A lovely tipple from a great brewery, not computer friendly though). Of COURSE I want to know about the third. I've always wondered if you were pretty. Crank call away. __ Lou, You are a graduate of Bob Jones? Well I'll be double dipped in dogshit, and there was I thinking you were human! You seem to have survived the experience all right though. Bravo. ;-) Louis -------------- Bye.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,15:47    Quote I've always wondered if you were pretty. You be the judge. I must say, I'm tired of the MF snakes on this MF plane(t)... So, I think I’ll go float in another dimension with the UD steam angels, like TerryL: My favorite Chesterton quote: “The falsity of religion disproves the existence of God no more than the existence of a forged five pound bank note disproves the existence of the Bank of Scotland.” Ahem. The falsity of Piltdown Man disproves evolution no more than the (all together now! existence of a forged five pound bank note disproves the existence of the Bank of Scotland. Which I've never seen by the way. Turn about is fair play… How many snarky evilutionist steam angels can dance in a bead of sweat on WAD's upper lip? Is he hoist by his own petard from heaven by a golden chain or an iron one? If a man makes a statement about intelligent design in the woods of Waco and a Minnesota woman isn’t around to hear it, is he still cute? -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Lou FCD Posts: 5409 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2006,16:08    Hey kids.  Sorry, I was watching the NASA TV update on the water on Mars thing.... Yep.  I was a student at Blow Job U.... for exactly one semester, wherein I apparently asked too many questions and refused to accept the answers I got, and just shut up about it. I was given a personal, face to face invitation to exit the campus at the end of the semester by Dr. Bob III. It was the beginning of the end of my fundyism. Soon after, I got laid. 'nuff said. -------------- Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound Work-friendly photography NSFW photography

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