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  Topic: Biological Information: New Perspectives, The Springer Book Flap< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1774
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2013,10:45   

Quote (sparc @ Oct. 06 2013,22:49)
Unfortunately, TheologyWeb from which we've learned a bit about the fake Cornell conference becuase pompous poser Jorge Fernandez couldn't keep his mouth shut until Springer published BI:NP went silent: †  
Quote
TheologyWeb has died horribly! As has the other associated sites: opentheism.info, preteristpodcast.com, theologywebsucks.com and so on and so on.
You can find things out about our status over at our facebook group or by e-mailing me+tweb [at] christophertaylor [dot] net
But there is hope: †
Quote
Theologyweb is working on coming back; the server is online but the forums are not.

TWeb had a major disk crash about a week ago. †They've sent the disk to a company that specializes in data recovery which reports almost all the files should be recoverable. †That process is due to be done by the end of this week, they hope to be back online shortly after.

They have a Facebook site here to keep track of status.

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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2013,19:58   

Data recovery costs about 300 time the price of a backup disk.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1437
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2013,21:39   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 07 2013,19:58)
Data recovery costs about 300 time the price of a backup disk.

Jesus is their backup disk.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
NoName



Posts: 2721
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2013,06:57   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 07 2013,21:39)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 07 2013,19:58)
Data recovery costs about 300 time the price of a backup disk.

Jesus is their backup disk.

Yeah, but have you seen the access time?
Speed matters, and he's WAY overdue.
:p

  
JonF



Posts: 632
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2013,07:00   

Yeah, I just can't believe they had no redundancy or backup. Both are cheap and simple. I don't feel comfortable unless critical data is in at least three places.

  
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2013,23:32   

The Ernst Mayr Library of the Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University obtained Biological Information: New Perspectives. Let's hope that they didn't pay for it and that they file it under pseudo-science.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2013,01:17   

Why ddin't the Google map for Biological Information: New Perspectives mention Cornell University. Honi soit qui mal y pense.

Edited by sparc on Nov. 13 2013,01:17

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2013,01:40   

Stop the presses:
Logos research associates new blog states † †  
Quote
Encouragement for Believers - Science Update
Good science affirms Scripture!

Referring to BI:NP its current headline says:
† †  
Quote
NEO-DARWINAN THEORY COLLAPSING...
Breakthrough Scientifc Publication Sheds New Light on the Origin and Nature of Biological Information...

I wonder if they want to say that pre-1940 evolution fits to their YEC world views.

ETA: Link: http://www.logosra.org/....sra.org (the content of their home page may change over time. Unfortunately, the post on biological information is the most current one and doesnńt seem to have a permanent link yet).

Edited by sparc on Nov. 13 2013,01:59

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2013,01:54   

These guy are real bastards. Do you remember that Jorge Fernandez said there is no mentioning of God or even an undefined designer in the book? Now we read:
Quote
For the Bible-believing Christian, we have an obvious explanation for these incredible scientific findings. As Christians we have a supremely intelligent, all powerful, Creator-God. Life is very clearly programmed, and the living God of the Bible is clearly the Great Programmer (the Author of Life Ė see Acts 3:15). This is exciting news for Christians Ė science is strongly affirming Scripture!

And they don't gvie a shit for their readers  
Quote
Check back with us soon to learn more about the second conclusion that emerged from this landmark publication, Biological InformationóNew Perspectives. This book can be purchased at a discounted price from BINP.org (caution - this a very technical book). On the same website a less technical, reader-friendly summary of this publication is available (and can be downloaded as a free PDF).

They just want to milk them while the whole book is freely available at World Scientific.

Disgusting.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2013,22:24   

I am not an expert on John Sanford's †Mendelís Accountant and his Genetic Entropy but I wonder how his "Biological Information: New Perspectives" co-author Chase Nelson can claim that evolution cannot create new genetic information and complain that the book didn't receive a warm welcome while at the same time he co-authored an †article which says that mutations and natural selection can lead to new forms of bird flu virusses that can be transmitted within the human population.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2014,23:30   

Biological Information: New Perspectives is #7 of the DI's Top-Ten Evolution creationist stories of 2013.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Cubist



Posts: 472
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2014,09:49   

I had an evil idea.

The entire content of BI:NP is free for the downloading, right? So why not do that, and create a 'companion volume' which points out all the glaring errors, and explains in detail why those errors are errors? Copyright isn't an issue, because copyright law allows people to quote portions of a protected work in order to comment on that protected work, and boy howdy will this project ever comment on BI:NP.

I don't have the necessary background to disassemble BI:NP, but there are people around here who do have the necessary background, and I can at least do typesetting and page layout and etc, so that the final product ends up looking as good as its content. Anybody want to give it a go?

  
Quack



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2014,12:55   

I didn't find it possible to download all, only a 48 page synopsis, 7 pages introduction and 15 pages chapter 1.

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Not only does life not need special intervention by a Creator God, it is a natural, emergent expression of the routine creativity of the universe.
                                                          Stuart A. Kauffman

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2014,05:00   

I have it all.

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2139
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2014,06:23   

Me too, somewhere. Unless I deleted it to make space for episodes of DangerMouse.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
DiEb



Posts: 271
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2014,10:12   

I still have it, too - though I only read three chapters. Uncommon Descent started a series of posts on each chapter of the book, but stopped AFAIK with Chapter 2.4 Using Numerical Simulation to Test
the ďMutation-CountĒ Hypothesis
(Chapter 14 in UD's counting), giving up †halfway through the book.

I had an interest in chapter 1.1.2 (or chapter 3) "A General Theory of Information Cost Incurred by Successful Search", until I got convinced that this is a pure philosophical speculation and  not mathematics - and therefore doesn't need clear and usable definitions.

Judging from my experience it will be hard work to hunt down the little substance which is hidden in the articles....

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10758
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2014,13:27   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 08 2014,06:23)
Me too, somewhere. Unless I deleted it to make space for episodes of DangerMouse.

HAR HAR YOU ARE PENFOLD.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2014,13:43   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 08 2014,13:27)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 08 2014,06:23)
Me too, somewhere. Unless I deleted it to make space for episodes of DangerMouse.

HAR HAR YOU ARE PENFOLD.

The Greatest Secret Agent ever were.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2491
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2014,14:01   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 08 2014,11:43)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 08 2014,13:27)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 08 2014,06:23)
Me too, somewhere. Unless I deleted it to make space for episodes of DangerMouse.

HAR HAR YOU ARE PENFOLD.

The Greatest Secret Agent ever were.

Shush.

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2139
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2014,09:39   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 08 2014,13:27)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 08 2014,06:23)
Me too, somewhere. Unless I deleted it to make space for episodes of DangerMouse.

HAR HAR YOU ARE PENFOLD.

Cor, Chief. You think so?

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10758
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2014,11:31   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 09 2014,09:39)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 08 2014,13:27)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 08 2014,06:23)
Me too, somewhere. Unless I deleted it to make space for episodes of DangerMouse.

HAR HAR YOU ARE PENFOLD.

Cor, Chief. You think so?

Good Grief! Penfold, shush.



(I bet you read that in 'the voice')

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 29 2014,22:59   

Quote (Quack @ Jan. 07 2014,12:55)
I didn't find it possible to download all, only a 48 page synopsis, 7 pages introduction and 15 pages chapter 1.

Jason B. Ladd (Christian, husband, father of five, and Marine fighter pilot. Seeking Peace, Waging War, Defending the Faith.) informs us that FMS publised a 48 pages Synopsis and Limited Commentary on Biological Information: New Perspectives.
To my best knowledge FMS are the same guys that run <a href="BINP.org" target="_blank">BINP.org</a> who shamelessly still try to sell the book which eberybody can download freely from World Scientific. They even sell the above mentioned synopsis for $10 while you can download it freely from their own site.
BTW, we and evolution theory are obviously doomed:

source

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 29 2014,23:12   

BTW, here's how the BI:NP announcemnet looked on the Springer web pages:

source

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Driver



Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,01:01   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 08 2014,12:23)
Me too, somewhere. Unless I deleted it to make space for episodes of DangerMouse.

Best theme tune ever.

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Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

  
Quack



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,03:53   

Quote
eberybody can download freely from World Scientific.

Where is the download button?

--------------
Not only does life not need special intervention by a Creator God, it is a natural, emergent expression of the routine creativity of the universe.
                                                          Stuart A. Kauffman

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4819
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,07:02   

Quote (sparc @ Jan. 29 2014,22:59)
Quote (Quack @ Jan. 07 2014,12:55)
I didn't find it possible to download all, only a 48 page synopsis, 7 pages introduction and 15 pages chapter 1.

Jason B. Ladd (Christian, husband, father of five, and Marine fighter pilot. Seeking Peace, Waging War, Defending the Faith.) informs us that FMS publised a 48 pages Synopsis and Limited Commentary on Biological Information: New Perspectives.
To my best knowledge FMS are the same guys that run <a href="BINP.org" target="_blank">BINP.org</a> who shamelessly still try to sell the book which eberybody can download freely from World Scientific. They even sell the above mentioned synopsis for $10 while you can download it freely from their own site.
BTW, we and evolution theory are obviously doomed:

source

So they like the idea of hockey stick graphs?



Edited by stevestory on Jan. 30 2014,11:28

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Bob O'H



Posts: 2139
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,08:20   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 30 2014,07:02)
Quote (sparc @ Jan. 29 2014,22:59)
Quote (Quack @ Jan. 07 2014,12:55)
I didn't find it possible to download all, only a 48 page synopsis, 7 pages introduction and 15 pages chapter 1.

Jason B. Ladd (Christian, husband, father of five, and Marine fighter pilot. Seeking Peace, Waging War, Defending the Faith.) informs us that FMS publised a 48 pages Synopsis and Limited Commentary on Biological Information: New Perspectives.
To my best knowledge FMS are the same guys that run <a href="BINP.org" target="_blank">BINP.org</a> who shamelessly still try to sell the book which eberybody can download freely from World Scientific. They even sell the above mentioned synopsis for $10 while you can download it freely from their own site.
BTW, we and evolution theory are obviously doomed:

source

So they like the idea of hockey stick graphs?

POTW.

At least.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
sparc



Posts: 1957
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,09:05   

seconded

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Henry J



Posts: 4593
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,14:54   

My answer to that:

Never mind "power to explain", give us the alleged explanation already!!!! †:p

  
JohnW



Posts: 2778
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2014,14:59   

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 30 2014,12:54)
My answer to that:

Never mind "power to explain", give us the alleged explanation already!!!! †:p

Poof!

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
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