dvunkannon
Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008
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| Quote (Kattarina98 @ Aug. 24 2010,14:00) | | Quote (dvunkannon @ Aug. 24 2010,10:59) | Calling shenanigans on this.
The Jewish religion has always counted years since Creation, and they're just shy of 5800. Bishop Ussher was a johnny come lately in Biblical chronology.
There is also a strong eschatological belief in Judaism in a 6000 year period to be followed by a 1000 year "Sabbath" of Messianic rule, followed by God knows what. Ps 90:4 says, | Quote | | For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. |
The first half of that is what motivates Jewish 6000 year thinking. Of course, when Rosh Hashanah 6000 rolls around with no Mashiach, they can focus on the second half. "A watch in the night" is roughly an hour, so the Messianic Age is pushed far into the future.
ps - the Jewish calendar really needs the Messiah to help press reset on its calculations of the seasons, which were set almost 2000 years ago and have gone ever so slightly off. The problem is well known in Orthodox circles, but contra the Pope and fatwa-issuing Islamic clerics, no rabbi would ever claim the authority to change things now. |
So it seems whereas the various Christian apologists tampered with the numbers over the millenia, Jews just stuck to their chronology? Or did I misunderstand you? |
I'd have to see a clear example of what Repcheck is calling 'tampering' to answer your question. If he means that even 2000 years ago, Christians believed the world was already 6000 years old, and today they still think it is 6000 years old, I would be very surprised if the source was authentic.
The Jewish religion thinks the world is about 5800 years old now, and 2000 years ago they thought it was 3800 years old. 2000 years ago those Jews that thought the world would last 6000 years thought the clock had 2200 years to run, and now it has 200.
The Biblical prophet Elijah never said anything about 6000 years (in the Bible). It is quite possible that Christian authors have mangled a quote by the individual known as "Tanna d'bei Eliyahu" (Teacher of the house of Elijah) which appears in the Babylonian Talmud.
| Quote | R. Kattina said: Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day {Isaiah 2:11}.
Abaye said: it will be desolate two [thousand], as it is said, After two days will he revive us: in the third day, he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight {Hosea 6:2}.
It has been taught in accordance with R. Kattina: Just as the seventh year is one year of release in seven, so is the world: one thousand years out of seven shall be fallow, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day,' and it is further said, A Psalm and song for the Sabbath day {Psalm 92:1}, meaning the day that is altogether Sabbath — and it is also said, For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past {Psalm 90:4}.
The Tanna debe Eliyyahu teaches: The world is to exist six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation; two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era (Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sanhedrin Folio 97a).
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If the title 'tanna' is taken at face value, the author of that last quote lived just at the beginning of the Common Era, ie just by Jesus at around the 4000 mark. So by his own chronology, the Messianic era is right around the corner! But his was a minority opinion. A much later work (10th century CE) takes the name and quotations of TbE as its basis, see Wikipedia.
Bottom line - Jews have had a consistent understanding of the age of the earth since the beginning of rabbinic Judaism (at least). I'm not a student of historical Christian eschatology, but I've never heard of the idea that Christian authors have continually redefined what 6000 years means so that their own times were always just shy of 6000.
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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima
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