RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (1000) < ... 551 552 553 554 555 [556] 557 558 559 560 561 ... >   
  Topic: Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,16:59   

Yecki / Wes:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-maimer

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,17:00   

Meanwhile, over at Thesciphishow.com, Salvador Cordova is about to present a worked-through example of how to calculate CSI .........

  
bdelloid



Posts: 3
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,17:12   

Quote (Zachriel @ July 05 2007,15:51)
...

scordova: The human genome is about 3 billion nucleotides, making the probability of specific mutational changes by random mutation much less.

Oh, that's sweet. I guess that means that the lungfish, which has a genome about 40 times larger has a 40 fold lower mutation rate per nucleotide!

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,17:16   

Quote (stevestory @ July 05 2007,07:47)
Peace

Helena B
| hblavatsky's blog

It sure is a good thing for this person that the fundies are too stupid to know who Madam Blavatsky was . . . . . .

(snicker)  (giggle)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,17:47   

Quote (steve_h @ July 05 2007,17:00)
Meanwhile, over at Thesciphishow.com, Salvador Cordova is about to present a worked-through example of how to calculate CSI .........

no he's F*king not!
 
Quote
Maybe we have more fun things to do with our time.....

I'm willing to respond to questions, but since we are talking about the EF, it would be good to know how many of you have Bill Dembski's book, Design Inference.

If any of you are arguing agaist a book you haven't read, or have current access to, I find it difficult to justify spending time debating book reviews by people completely unfamiliar with the literature.

Given some of the anti-ID comments I've read so far, it appears:

1. the book hasn't been read by those criticizing it

2. if it has been read, it seems there has been a mis-comprehension

Independent of whether the EF is legitimate, it can't be discussed fairly until it is represented accurately.  So far, I've seen little evidence that it's being accurately represented, much less legitimately criticized.

Salvador Cordova


what a cop out.

ID WANT YOUR $$ BIG BOY, NO $$ NO Explanatory Filter

Still, what else should we have expected from Sal, meister of Slime.

Pah

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,17:49   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 05 2007,17:16)
Quote (stevestory @ July 05 2007,07:47)
Peace

Helena B
| hblavatsky's blog

It sure is a good thing for this person that the fundies are too stupid to know who Madam Blavatsky was . . . . . .

(snicker)  (giggle)

yeah, I've been resisting linking to more info for a while now...Madam even has a picture up!
Some of the more amusing names over at OW make funny googling! And the lack of knowledge about British comedy allows the longest running joke I've seen over there to carry on unimpeded ! :)
I've fallen

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:23   

William Dembski:

Quote

Apparently Wesley Elsberry, who has now moved on from the NCSE, is stirring the pot:


Hmmm. All I did was quote a news article. I then got a request for deletion over a dispute of that quote. I immediately edited the post to put in the text that said the quote was deleted. I have been looking since then for material that would resolve the issue. I found and transcribed video that shows Yecke saying the same sort of thing that was disputed, from just about the time of the news article. I have placed a public records request with the MN education department to see if they have the specific materials referenced by the newspaper.

Nor is there any mention of the career-maiming in the other direction. No notice taken of the Wikipedia vandal's libelous attack upon me. Hmmph.

Is Dembski *doing* anything to actually figure out what is true, and what is not? I don't see any mention of the video of Yecke over on UD; I thought those folks liked videotape-level evidence.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:27   

Uncommonly Dembksi:    
Quote
In my previous post, I cited a Miami Herald article that refers to “The National Center for Science Education, a pro-science watchdog group.” For the real pro-science watchdog group, check out the following links:

   * www.pro-science.com
   * www.pro-science.org
   * www.pro-science.net

That’s right. I own those domain names and they all refer back here. Let me encourage all contributors to this blog to use these domain names in referring to UD when they email Darwinists.


That's right.  Because science is all about the domain names.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
franky172



Posts: 160
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:28   

I guess this is how Dembski does science

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:33   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 05 2007,17:59)
Yecki / Wes:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-maimer

Have you noticed that every other comment from the IDers these days is a lament at how some journalist got ID terribly wrong and confused it with creationism?

   
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:33   

Quote
no he's F*king not!


Language!, oldmanintheskydidntdoit. Shame on you! Sal is desperate to settle this issue, but I don't see how he could possibly do it even if just one person, anywhere, is questioning his willingness or ability to do so. Just go buy Demsbki's next book and his last one and the one before that, and all will become clear.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:36   

Quote
George Gilder in the Jerusalem Post
WAD

Ruthie Blum interviewed George Gilder in the Jerusalem Post late last month. Here’s a sample from the interview:

                 
Quote
RB: How do you explain how this “incredibly improbable world could exist”?

GG: Creation. I see creation in economics; I see creation in computer science. You can know everything there is to know about the physics and chemistry of a microchip, without having the slightest inkling of what function it’s performing, let alone what content it is processing. The same goes for network theory. You can know every electron or atom across a fiber-optic network, without having any idea of what contents are being transmitted.

In network theory, you have seven layers of abstraction. Those same seven layers also apply, in slightly different form, to a computer system. Both are exhaustively and intelligently designed, with elaborate and extraordinarily complex equipment, which itself is exhaustively designed, and not intelligible unless you know the “source code.” The theory that governs design in the microchip - invented 28-9 years ago by Carver Mead and Lynn Conway - is called “hierarchical design.” It is a top-down design, the crux of which is that it is independent of its material embodiment.

The iPhone must really be up there.

Of course, we already know that human beings design things, and that much of what we design is abstract, in that what is important is orthogonal to the causal powers of the underlying physical substrate. The implementation of a long division algorithm with paper and pencil proceeds through steps that are entirely orthogonal to the properties of graphite applied to paper as described from the perspective of physics. Much of the above describes similar, albeit more sophisticated, instances of human design activity instantiating similar forms of abstraction.  What bearing does such "non-material" abstraction have upon the thesis of intelligent design? Zero.

But they may be onto something. To the extent that we can show that the abstract nature of computation (e.g. that computation is independent of the material substrates in which it is instantiated, as established by Turing) indicates that computation is "non-material" in the sense of "supernatural", we have another "proof of concept" for supernatural intelligent design, the only kind ID is really interested in.

(Now to establish that computation is supernatural. This may take a few hours.  Be right back.)

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Rev. BigDumbChimp



Posts: 185
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:43   

Quote (stevestory @ July 05 2007,18:33)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 05 2007,17:59)
Yecki / Wes:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-maimer

Have you noticed that every other comment from the IDers these days is a lament at how some journalist got ID terribly wrong and confused it with creationism?

That or a comment wrongly confusing the gist of some article into supporting ID when it either is not or isn't even addressing something with-in the same universe of the deabte.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:49   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 05 2007,19:23)
William Dembski:

Quote

Apparently Wesley Elsberry, who has now moved on from the NCSE, is stirring the pot:


Hmmm. All I did was quote a news article. I then got a request for deletion over a dispute of that quote. I immediately edited the post to put in the text that said the quote was deleted. I have been looking since then for material that would resolve the issue. I found and transcribed video that shows Yecke saying the same sort of thing that was disputed, from just about the time of the news article. I have placed a public records request with the MN education department to see if they have the specific materials referenced by the newspaper.

Nor is there any mention of the career-maiming in the other direction. No notice taken of the Wikipedia vandal's libelous attack upon me. Hmmph.

Is Dembski *doing* anything to actually figure out what is true, and what is not? I don't see any mention of the video of Yecke over on UD; I thought those folks liked videotape-level evidence.

There's no benefit for him to do research to find out his smear of you isn't true.

   
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:54   

nemesis
Quote

Just for the heck of it, someone should get pro-science.blogspot.com. I checked and it isn’t taken.


It is now.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,18:55   

Quote
In my previous post, I cited a Miami Herald article that refers to “The National Center for Science Education, a pro-science watchdog group.” For the real pro-science watchdog group, check out the following links:

www.pro-science.com
www.pro-science.org
www.pro-science.net
That’s right. I own those domain names

Curses! fartmeister.com is already taken! How will my inane ramblings ever become respectable science if things continue as they are!!
and !

  
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,19:23   

Ou Krokodil suggests
Quote

Somebody should also start a site for teens about the ‘overwhelming evidence’ for evolution.


Priceless.

But sadly, I'm sure his tenure at UD won't last much longer.

He's going to be Sternberged!

Edit: I'm a dumbass.

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,19:28   

Quote (cogzoid @ July 05 2007,19:23)
Ou Krokodil suggests
Quote

Somebody should also start a site for teens about the ‘overwhelming evidence’ for evolution.


Priceless.

But sadly, I'm sure his tenure at UD won't last much longer.

He's going to be Sternberged!

Edit: I'm a dumbass.

For teens?  What the hell is that about?

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
djmullen



Posts: 327
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,00:11   

Waaaaay off topic:

Wes, can you go to John Dvorak's blog at

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/

and tell us what kind of bird is taking down what looks like an adult deer?

And also, how to stay the hell out of it's way!  Is there a repellant for those critters?

If it's scrolled off the bottom of Dvorak's blog, the original is at:

http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=324667

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,05:11   

Entropy has become "evil" over at OW!
 
Quote
Steorn's findings totally undermine the basic premise of materialism, simply by demonstrating a confirmed physical effect that materialists predict cannot happen. These clever Irish researchers have demonstrated that the principles of thermodynamics function in a manner far closer to the predictions of William Dembski and William Brookfield than the clearly flawed thermodynamic claims of Hawkings and Maxwell.

 
Quote
This is a perfect example of how ultra-materialists scientists deny legitimate scientific inquiry. It's hardly surprising that the dogmatic neo-darwinist nay-sayers are often the same people who deny that Steorn's perpetual motion machine is possible WITHOUT EVEN SEEING IT!

 
Quote
Basically the 2nd law states that the amount of chaos (evil) in the universe can only increase; It's basically another way of formulating the creed of nihilsm. Anybody with spiritual knowledge knows that there is ultimately a more powerful force of order; and that we have been promised that eventually all evil will be overcome with God's divine order. The fact that the 2nd-law cultists have failed to account for this should prompt us to check if it has any basis in fact at all.


blah blah - ok, random commenter's can (it would appear!) write what they want, but Scen24's response is priceless!

 
Quote
So after hearing all this shouting about how IDers aren't peer reviewed we now find out that peer-review doesn't mean it is real? So what is the point of peer review? And for something to be science it has to be made public?? So everything scientists are doing in their labs today isn't science because it hasn't been made public yet? What standards are you following?

Here is another classic example of evolutionists back tracking (this time on peer-review) because they are losing ground to intelligent design. Because IDers are being peer reviewed (more and more now), evolutionists are now claiming that peer-review doesn't matter.

I wonder who is making a fool of themselves here.

http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe/node/314

"I wonder who is making a fool of themselves here."
I can answer that one for you SChen24 -you are!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,06:38   

Quote (djmullen @ July 06 2007,00:11)
Waaaaay off topic:

Wes, can you go to John Dvorak's blog at

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/

and tell us what kind of bird is taking down what looks like an adult deer?

And also, how to stay the hell out of it's way!  Is there a repellant for those critters?

If it's scrolled off the bottom of Dvorak's blog, the original is at:

http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=324667

Looks like a Golden Eagle (Aquila chrysaetos) to me.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,06:40   

Quote
Are you pro-science enough?
WAD

In my previous post, I cited a Miami Herald article that refers to “The National Center for Science Education, a pro-science watchdog group.” For the real pro-science watchdog group, check out the following links:

www.pro-science.com
www.pro-science.org
www.pro-science.net

That’s right. I own those domain names and they all refer back here. Let me encourage all contributors to this blog to use these domain names in referring to UD when they email Darwinists.

That way, your recipient will think you all sciencey and stuff, when your science commitment is in reality as empty as these domains. And your level of honesty similar to that of WAD.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,07:00   

Quote (djmullen @ July 06 2007,00:11)
Waaaaay off topic:

Wes, can you go to John Dvorak's blog at

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/

and tell us what kind of bird is taking down what looks like an adult deer?

And also, how to stay the hell out of it's way!  Is there a repellant for those critters?

If it's scrolled off the bottom of Dvorak's blog, the original is at:

http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=324667

The two relevant pieces of information are that one uses a large raptor (steppe eagle, golden eagle, etc.) and hunts a small deer.

Personally, I'm just as glad that Rusty, my hen Harris's hawk, is no larger than she is (about 920g at flying weight, or about two pounds). The folks who do falconry with eagles are in another league, as their birds may weigh over ten pounds. That may not sound like much, but that is a *lot* of raptor.

IIRC, condors may be the biggest birds around capable of flight. High weight for the California condor is about 23 pounds, according to Wikipedia.

Mostly, eagles aren't interested in tangling with full-grown humans. But if you go messing about near a nest while they have eggs or young there, all bets are off.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,07:49   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2007,06:11)
blah blah - ok, random commenter's can (it would appear!) write what they want, but Scen24's response is priceless!

 
Quote
So after hearing all this shouting about how IDers aren't peer reviewed we now find out that peer-review doesn't mean it is real? So what is the point of peer review?
 

Just because something passes peer review does Not mean it is correct. Peer review does not certify a paper as correct, it certifies it as minimaly competent.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,07:51   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2007,06:11)
Quote

Here is another classic example of evolutionists back tracking (this time on peer-review) because they are losing ground to intelligent design. Because IDers are being peer reviewed (more and more now),

O RLY?

   
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,07:54   

Quote
IIRC, condors may be the biggest birds around capable of flight. High weight for the California condor is about 23 pounds, according to Wikipedia.

Naw, trumpeter swans can weigh close to 30 lbs.

And they really fly.  None of that wimpy-assed soaring shit :)

Mongolians do their eagle falconry from horseback.

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,07:57   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2007,06:40)
WAD

In my previous post, I cited a Miami Herald article that refers to “The National Center for Science Education, a pro-science watchdog group.” For the real pro-science watchdog group, check out the following links:

www.pro-science.com
www.pro-science.org
www.pro-science.net

That’s right. I own those domain names and they all refer back here. Let me encourage all contributors to this blog to use these domain names in referring to UD when they email Darwinists.

Let's take a moment to review the recent scientific output from the UD gang:

1)  URL sockpuppetry (or whatever this is called)
2)  Flatulent Flash animations
3)  Global warming denial
4)  HIV/AIDS denial
5)  Forging alliances with the Pleasurian community (William Brookfield)
6)  Forging alliances with the holocaust-denial community (Johannes Lerle)
7)  Quack medicine advocacy (DCA)
8)  Reporting someone to DHS (Eric Pianka)
9)  Bogus accusations of racism (Kevin Padian)
10) Launched overwhelmingevidence.com, antievolution site for 45-year old teenagers, recently voted the least popular URL in the history of the Internet with over one non-troll post per month.

This is pretty impressive.  I'm surprised anyone still doubts ID, with a body of work like this backing it up.

Edit: Accidentally gave UD research team credit for work done by obvious OE troll hblavatsky (orbo quack prepetual motion machine asserted as proof of god)

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,07:58   

definitely check out the OE post oldmaninthesky linked to. It's great. Someone put up a bit of free energy quackery couched in the creationist type of lingo, person B says it should be deleted because it's probably quackery, and schen24 attacks person B and equates free energy to ID!

I'm surprised these guys have any feet left, they spend so much time blasting away at them with uzis.

Edited by stevestory on July 06 2007,09:00

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,08:26   

Quote (dhogaza @ July 06 2007,07:54)
Quote
IIRC, condors may be the biggest birds around capable of flight. High weight for the California condor is about 23 pounds, according to Wikipedia.

Naw, trumpeter swans can weigh close to 30 lbs.

And they really fly.  None of that wimpy-assed soaring shit :)

Mongolians do their eagle falconry from horseback.

Other species of condor are noted by Wikipedia to get up to 15 kg, which puts those and the trumpeter swans pretty close, weight-wise.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,08:30   

Quote (steve_h @ July 05 2007,18:33)
 
Quote
no he's F*king not!


Language!, oldmanintheskydidntdoit. Shame on you! Sal is desperate to settle this issue, but I don't see how he could possibly do it even if just one person, anywhere, is questioning his willingness or ability to do so. Just go buy Demsbki's next book and his last one and the one before that, and all will become clear.

Darwin had Huxley. Dembski has Sal.

Bummer.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
  29999 replies since Jan. 16 2006,11:43 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (1000) < ... 551 552 553 554 555 [556] 557 558 559 560 561 ... >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]