Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::AF Dave's UPDATED Creator God Hypothesis

Posted: July 17 2006,18:32

Quote (Faid @ July 16 2006,16:45)

Well dave, I had this to say about your pics on July 8:

Quote

Hey, does anyone still have dave's pic? It's down for some reason, and I can't remember exactly, but I think that the two angles looked different somehow. Were they actually from the same formation?

But I still can't see your pictures anymore, so I can't be sure. Anyway.

Also, I hope you had a relaxing trip- you needed it. did you convert any natives to YECism, as you hoped?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

...And all this time I was saying to myself "Could he have posted two different pictures and LIE saying it's from the same formation, to try and deceive us? Nah, he can't be that stupid and that dishonest... The left one might look so small and muddy because of the lighting and the angle..."
..But something told me that was not the case.

So I DID make a comment, dave, a comment I repeated again, to make sure you read it, and waited for your wisdom...

And there it is.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome. And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: July 17 2006,19:49

AFDave! Quick! Look at these pictures!

See that - they're almost IDENTICAL!

They both are the SAME COLOR
They both are the SAME SHAPE
Heck, they even both have the SAME MARKINGS!

Because they look so much alike they must both be made the SAME WAY, from the SAME MATERIALS, with the SAME COST, in the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME, and with the SAME LEVEL OF EFFORT. Right?

Holy f*ckin Christ-on-a-stick Dave, will you ever stop being such an ignorant dumbass retard??.

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"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

lawman

Posts: 8
Joined: July 2006

Posted: July 17 2006,20:02

hi guys. i am what you call a "lurker" and am posting from a third world muslim nation somewhere in seasia. i have been following this discussion for some time now and find it very interesting. inadvertently, have increased my knowledge in a great many things (thanks people). ever since kvd, i have tried to read up on a lot of things related to creationism, yes, i am a christian. i went thru the local public education system up till university, studied geology and physics, so i do understand almost all your arguments.
i find it rather interesting that dave does not seem to be able to provide evidence, or proof. he doesn't seem to back up his arguments with data that is statistically significant. could it be he doesn't know why "statistical significance" is important in a scientific discourse?
i also find it strange that kvd had to happen to protect science! even here, in a muslim country, i was never asked to believe anything but what the scientific data said. sure there was religion, but it was confined to religious/ philosophy classes, which were optional.
there didn't seem to be the conflict that you seem to be facing there, "in the most scientifically advanced nation in the world" (i assume you're all in the USA). sure we have the religious nuts, but they do tend to stay away from science and education.
Anyway, that is my 2cents worth. Again thank you all for the links and the explanations you have provided. It's almost like getting a free education

.
Ps. please excuse my lack of fluency in the english language.

Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: July 17 2006,20:04

Quote (afdave @ July 17 2006,22:19)

Now, I ask you ... why did the one on the RIGHT take millions of years whle the one on the LEFT took only three hours??!!

Hmmmmmm ... could it be (gasp, gasp) that geologists are WRONG about the formation on the right? (Heavens no! Say it cannot be!

(Quick! Deadman ... come to the rescue! JonF ... help us if you can!!

Gee, Dave, do you think it could have had something to do with the fact that the Mt. St. Helens sediment is loose, unlithified volcanic ash only a few weeks old, and the Grand Canyon is a few thousand feet of sediment laid down over a few million years?

Is it just barely possible that might have something to do with it?

Dammit, Dave, buy a geology textbook so you have some clue what you're talking about.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: July 17 2006,20:11

And more generally, Dave, this is more of your stupid argument by analogy. Chimps superficially look more like gorillas than they look like humans; therefore they must actually be more closely related to gorillas than humans.

This is the kind of argument I'd expect from a five-year-old, Dave. This is the same thing that made you get my 737/A320/CH47 example wrong.

There's a word for your particular brand of stupidity, Dave. It's called "superficiality," the inability to look below the surface of things. It's the dead-give-away sign of an intellectual lightweight.

I keep explaining this to you, and you keep not getting it. It's making it harder and harder to extend you any respect whatsoever.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: July 17 2006,20:14

Quote

hi guys. i am what you call a "lurker" and am posting from a third world muslim nation somewhere in seasia. i have been following this discussion for some time now and find it very interesting. inadvertently, have increased my knowledge in a great many things (thanks people). ever since kvd, i have tried to read up on a lot of things related to creationism, yes, i am a christian. i went thru the local public education system up till university, studied geology and physics, so i do understand almost all your arguments.

Hi lawman, and welcome!

Please feel free to join in with a comment or question any time. Science boards like this are a great way to learn many new things -I learn something with almost every new topic that comes up. And don't worry about your English - it seems to be fine, and if there is any confusion I'm sure between everyone we can figure out what was meant.

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"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

creeky belly

Posts: 205
Joined: June 2006

Posted: July 17 2006,20:47

Quote

GRAND CANYON ROCK FORMATION IDENTIFICATION TEST
The two pictures below were taken from different angles in the canyon. Can you identify the name of the formation? What is your explanation for how it formed? How many years, what the composition is, did it form at the bottom of an ocean, etc.

I'm actually surprised it's taken Dave this long to get to this canard with all the talk of flood geology.

The reason no one really responded, IMO, is the relatively little knowledge of geology required to analyze the Grand Canyon/Toutle River . I would expect anyone who ever took Geology 101 (lovingly named Rocks for Jocks at the University of Washington, but I'm sure this is not uncommon) anywhere to answer this question. Not to sound condescending, but perhaps Dave could enlighten us on which geologic principles he chooses to use and which he ignores, and why. Certainly, if you look at the two cases using liberal amounts of geological data, you could immidiately come to the conclusion which best fits the data (and supported by ALL empirical evidence). I don't think this needs to be an exercise for the entire forum to complete, but perhaps something for Dave to show us how you can draw such a conclusion logically.

I'm an optimist, I know Dave's history of selectively choosing data, but I would rather hear how HE justifies it logically. So far the only similarity between these cases that I've heard is that they are both canyons.

So Dave here's [I]your[i] chance, how do you compare these sites geologically?

Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: July 17 2006,21:14

Quote (creeky belly @ July 18 2006,01:47)

I'm an optimist, I know Dave's history of selectively choosing data, but I would rather hear how HE justifies it logically. So far the only similarity between these cases that I've heard is that they are both canyons.

So Dave here's your chance, how do you compare these sites geologically?

Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! Pick me! Pick me!!

Okay, it's really simple. They both look the same; therefore they are the same! That's really all there is to it! I can't believe that all these smart people here can't see that! It's really quite amazing how strong the evidence is for a young earth, and how flimsy the evidence is for an old earth.

I mean, isn't it obvious?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

Faid

Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

Posted: July 17 2006,23:39

Only in this case, they didn't even look the same; And the only reason to disregard that would be to mistake dave for an honest person, asking an honest question.

Congrats, dave... You suuuure showed us- again.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome. And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,01:47

CLASSIC LONG-AGER BLINDNESS SUMMED UP IN A SINGLE PARAGRAPH

Quote

Gee, Dave, do you think it could have had something to do with the fact that the Mt. St. Helens sediment is loose, unlithified volcanic ash only a few weeks old, and the Grand Canyon is a few thousand feet of sediment laid down over a few million years?

This is an excellent example of a typical response of a Blind Long Ager ...

Let's analyze this statement ...

Gee, Dave, do you think it could have had something to do with the fact that the Mt. St. Helens sediment is loose, unlithified volcanic ash only a few weeks old

Yes ... DING DING DING ... Eric wins the Gold ... Lesson learned? Horizontal strata is laid down RAPIDLY. Canyons form RAPIDLY.

and the Grand Canyon is a few thousand feet of sediment laid down over a few million years?

Eeeerrrrr! Crash and burn!! Er ... uh ... horizontal strata and canyons form rapidly EXCEPT in the case of the Grand Canyon ... everyone knows that it took millions of years ... all the geology books say so!! Never mind that Derek Ager and Co. have thrown Lyell out the window and that the Creationists were right after all about Catastrophism. Never mind that NO ONE has ever seen a little river carve a huge canyon like the Grand Canyon ... never mind all that ...

WE WORSHIP THE 'MILLIONS OF YEARS GOD' AND AFDAVE HAS DARED TO SPEAK AGAINST HIM!!! HE MUST BE SILENCED!!!

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

Ichthyic

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,02:04

...and there's no difference between ash sediments and hardened sandstone or granite, right Dave?

have you even been to the grand canyon? what are the walls made of?

here, try this one:

take a geology pick (or heck, even a regular pick), break off a decent sized chunk of hardened sandstone or granite from any canyon wall you can find, and see how long it takes you to create a mini-canyon in the rock by pouring water on it.

Is it my imagination, or is Dave actually getting dumber the longer he posts here?

quite remarkable.

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"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Ichthyic

Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,02:22

Quote

We have a tanker of liquid nitrogen out back, and the zoo here has elephants, but I'm not planning to run that experiment.

awwww. I would have volunteered to assist to see that one.

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"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,03:38

Faid...

Quote

Only in this case, they didn't even look the same;

Didn't look the same, huh?

This from a guy who thinks Apes and Humans DO look similar ...

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,04:33

Hey AFDave, how about these questions?

Why are there so many profitable companies that use the Old Earth paradigm as the basis for a successful business case?

Why is there not a single company anywhere in the world that uses your 6000 year old Young Earth paradigm as the basis for a business case?

How's that YEC business case coming Dave? You ready to show us your business acumen yet? Or were you just 'embellishing' your abilities like you did when you claimed to be a sh*t hot fighter pilot?

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,04:43

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ July 18 2006,09:33)

Why is there not a single company anywhere in the world that uses your 6000 year old Young Earth paradigm as the basis for a business case?

Ahem:

For starters, Ken Ham and Kent Hovind have done exactly that. Though the latter is currently going through some rough times, he's certainly made a lot of money from the YEC "paradigm".

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)

Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

Stephen Elliott

Posts: 1776
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: July 18 2006,04:45

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ July 18 2006,09:33)

Or were you just 'embellishing' your abilities like you did when you claimed to be a sh*t hot fighter pilot?

Off topic, but where did that come from?

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:01

Quote

For starters, Ken Ham and Kent Hovind have done exactly that. Though the latter is currently going through some rough times, he's certainly made a lot of money from the YEC "paradigm".

My original questions to AFDave last Sunday pointed that out

"If the YE model is the ‘truth’ and is so superior to the OE model, why has no YEC figured out a way to make money from it? Why aren’t you, the super-duper businessman, making money from it? Looks like you would have no competition IF you could figure out a good business case. AFAICT, the only way to make money from YE is to sell pseudo-scientific books and videos to boobs like yourself who are desperate to have their delusions reinforced."

Quote

Off topic, but where did that come from

AFDave has been caught 'padding his resume' before, so to speak. He wanted us to believe he was a sh*t hot fighter jock when all he ever flew were unarmed trainers. Turned out he *hung around* with real fighter pilots, so in his mind that made *him* one too. Kinda like the towel boy for the Steelers claiming to be a professional football player.

AFDave has also bragged about what a great businessman he is too. I just want to see some of those business skills applied to the YEC case, that's all.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:06

JonF, OUR EXPERT FROM MIT, SPEAKS WITH AUTHORITY

JonF ...

Quote

Nope, Davie-pie. The walls are too steep. Erosion of soft rock yields approximately 45 degree wals. Erosion of hard rock yields 80-90 degree walls. The Grand Canyon walls are 80-90 degrees. The Grand Canyon and its meanders were not cut in soft sediments

But, JonF ... those sure look like 45 degree walls to me ...

There you have it folks ... the MIT Expert has spoken ...

Erosion of SOFT ROCK yields 45 degree walls ...

The Grand Canyon has LOTS of 45 degree walls (see picture above) ...

CONCLUSION: The Grand Canyon was formed by erosion of SOFT SEDIMENTS

Thankyou, ladies and gentlemen, for playing ...

The score is now ...

CREOS: 30? 40? 50? I've lost count ...
EVOS/LONG AGERS: 1? 2? 3? Certainly no more than 3

**********************************

OA...

Quote

Why are there so many profitable companies that use the Old Earth paradigm as the basis for a successful business case? Why is there not a single company anywhere in the world that uses your 6000 year old Young Earth paradigm as the basis for a business case?

Give me an example, please.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

Stephen Elliott

Posts: 1776
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: July 18 2006,05:14

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ July 18 2006,10:01)

Quote

Off topic, but where did that come from

AFDave has been caught 'padding his resume' before, so to speak. He wanted us to believe he was a sh*t hot fighter jock when all he ever flew were unarmed trainers. Turned out he *hung around* with real fighter pilots, so in his mind that made *him* one too. Kinda like the towel boy for the Steelers claiming to be a professional football player.

If that is true then it would destroy any credibility. I can believe a person could be honestly misstaken about science, but the same is hard to believe about personal history.

Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:19

Quote (afdave @ July 18 2006,10:06)

Give me an example, please.

Shell Oil

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)

Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:20

Quote

AFDave: Give me an example, please.

Successful Oil and Gas exploration companies that use OE models

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ADNOC - Abu Dhabi National Oil Company - state owned oil gas exploration company
Amerada Hess - independent oil gas exploration services and processing company
ConocoPhillips - an international, integrated oil gas exploration and production company
Exxon Mobil Corporation - world's premier oil, natural gas, LNG and petroleum products company
Gazprom - is the world's biggest gas exploration and production company
Kerr-McGee - is one of the largest U.S.-based independent crude oil exploration and production companies
ONGC - Oil and Natural Gas Corp Ltd - leading National Oil GAS exploration Company of India
Petrobras - brazilian integrated corporation whose business is oil and natural gas exploration, production
PetroCanada - is a Canadian integrated oil and gas exploration and production company
Sinopec - China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation
SNEPCO - nigerian oil gas exploration and production activities
Sonangol - angola oil gas exploration and production company
Statoil - one of the world's largest net sellers of crude oil. operator of fields, exploration
Aminex plc - experienced, independent, oil and gas company
London, UK, Europe(North)
Anadarko Petroleum - one of the largest independent crude oil and natural gas exploration and production companies
Houston, USA, America(North)
ATP Oil and Gas Corporation - develop already-discovered offshore petroleum reserves
Houston, USA, America(North)
BG Group plc - exploration and production, liquefied natural gas, transmission and distribution
Berkshire, UK, Europe(North)
BHP Billiton - an international oil and gas exploration and production company in australia
Melbourne, AUSTRALIA, Australia
Blue Dolphin Energy Company - pipeline and oil gas exploration services
Houston, USA, America(North)
BP Amoco Corporation - a leading provider of oil and natural gas exploration and production
Aberdeen, SCOTLAND, Europe(North)
Burlington Resources Inc - oil and natural gas exploration and production
Houston, USA, America(North)
Cabot Oil and Gas - natural gas producer and marketer
Houston, USA, America(North)
Cairn Energy PLC - oil and gas exploration and production company based in Edinburgh, Scotland
Edinburgh, SCOTLAND, Europe(North)
Canadian Natural Resources - oil and natural gas production canada
Calgary, CANADA, America(North)
ChevronTexaco - among the world's largest global energy companies
San Francisco, USA, America(North)
CNOOC - China National Offshore Oil Corporation - China National Offshore Oil Corporation - CNOOC
Beijing, CHINA, Asia
CNPC - The China National Petroleum Corporation
Beijing, CHINA, Asia
Conoco Inc - integrated oil company explores for oil and gas production
Houston, USA, America(North)
Dana Petroleum - ten North Sea fields in production
Aberdeen, SCOTLAND, Europe(North)
Devon Energy - independent oil and gas exploration services and producer
Oklahoma City, USA, America(North)
DNO - development of smaller petroleum fields
Oslo, NORWAY, Europe(North)
DONG - danish oil and gas exploration services company
Hørsholm, DENMARK, Europe(North)
Encana - one of North America's largest independent gas and oil exploration producers
Calgary, CANADA, America(North)
Eni SpA - integrated energy production company
Rome, ITALY, Europe(South)
Enterprise Oil plc - a crude oil and natural gas exploration and production operator company
London, UK, Europe(North)
Galp Energia, SGPS, S.A. - Oil Petroleum, Natural Gas Supply, Regasification, Transport, Storage and Distribution portugal
Lisboa , PORTUGAL, Europe(South)
Gas de France - one of the leading European gas groups
Paris, FRANCE, Europe(North)
Gazflot - russian exploration and ship owning company
Moscow, RUSSIA, Europe(North)
Iceland Oil - oil gas exploration company in Iceland
Reykjavik, ICELAND, Europe(North)
Inpex Corporation - oil gas exploration in japan
Tokyo, JAPAN, Asia
Lukoil - is Russia's leading oil company
Moscow, RUSSIA, Europe(North)
Lundin Petroleum - independent oil and gas exploration and production company
Stockholm, SWEDEN, Europe(North)
Marathon Oil Company - worldwide exploration and production of crude oil and natural gas
Houston, USA, America(North)
Murphy Oil Corporation - oil and gas exploration and production
El Dorado, USA, America(North)
Nexen - is a Canadian-based, global oil gas petroleum company
Alberta, CANADA, America(North)
Nigeria Liquefied Natural Gas Limited (NLNG) - joint venture LNG company, largest shareholder is Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation
Lagos, NIGERIA, Africa
Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation NNOC - commercial international corporation
Garki, NIGERIA, Africa
Norsk Hydro - an industrial company based on the use of oil, natural gas, LNG resources
Oslo, NORWAY, Europe(North)
Occidental Petroleum Corporation - oil and natural gas exploration and production
Los Angeles, USA, America(North)
Oilexco Inc - exploration and production company
Calgary, CANADA, America(North)
OMV Exploration & Production GmbH - austrian oil gas exploration companies
Wien, AUSTRIA, Europe(North)
Pertamina - state-owned oil and gas company
Jakarta, INDONESIA, Asia
Petronas - is Malaysia's national petroleum
Kuala Lumpur, MALAYSIA, Asia
Phillips Petroleum Company - exploration and production; gas gathering, processing and marketing
Bartlesville, USA, America(North)
Pioneer Natural Resources Company - independent oil and natural gas exploration and production company
Irving, USA, America(North)
Premier Oil plc - independent oil and gas company
London, UK, Europe(North)
Repsol YPF SA - integrated international oil and gas exploration and production company
Madrid, SPAIN, Europe(South)
Rocksource ASA - oil and gas exploration services
Oslo, NORWAY, Europe(North)
Rosneft - russian oil and gas exploration company
Moscow, RUSSIA, Europe(North)
Shell Oil Company - is one of the largest major oil and natural gas companies
Houston, USA, America(North)
Sibneft - petroleum exploration, production, refining, and marketing
Moscow, RUSSIA, Europe(North)
Spinnaker Exploration Company - independent energy production company
Houston, USA, America(North)
Sunoco - gas stations, crude oil production and petroleum products
Philadelphia, USA, America(North)
Teikoku Oil - japan oil and gas exploration, production and pipeline
Tokyo, JAPAN, Asia
Texaco - finds and produces LNG, crude oil and natural gas
San Francisco, USA, America(North)
TotalFinaElf - major integrated oil and gas exploration corporation
Courbevoie, FRANCE, Europe(South)
Tullow Oil - independant oil and gas production
London, UK, Europe(North)
Unocal Corporation - oil and natural gas production and exploration development company
El Segundo, USA, America(North)
Woodside Petroleum - is involved in the exploration, development and production of hydrocarbons
Perth, AUSTRALIA, Australia
Antrim Energy inc Calgary, CANADA, America(North)
Apache Corporation Houston, USA, America(North)
Black Rock Petroleum NL Perth, AUSTRALIA, Australia
Cabinda Gulf Oil Company Ltd, CABGOC Luanda, ANGOLA, Africa
Callon Petroleum Company Houston, USA, America(North)
Chevron Corporation San Francisco, USA, America(North)
Dragon Oil Dubai, UAE, Middle East
EGAS - Egyptian Natural Gas Holding Company Cairo, EGYPT, Middle East
Huskey Oil Limited Calgary, CANADA, America(North)
Paladin Resources plc London, UK, Europe(North)
PetroChina Beijing, CHINA, Asia
Petsec Energy Sydney, AUSTRALIA, Australia
Pogo Producing Company Houston, USA, America(North)
Ramco Energy plc Aberdeen, SCOTLAND, Europe(North)
Roc Oil Company Limited Sydney, AUSTRALIA, Australia
Talisman Energy Inc. Calgary, CANADA, America(North)
Venture Production plc Aberdeen, SCOTLAND, Europe(North)
Yukos Oil Corporation Moscow, RUSSIA, Europe(North)

Successful Radiocarbon dating labs that use OE models

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Austria
VERA: Vienna Environmental Research Accelerator
Absolute Chronology for Early Civilisations in Austria and Central Europe using 14C Dating with AMS (University of Vienna)
Australia
Australian National University - Accelerator Mass Spectrometry
Explanations and applications lists of several varieties of radiosotope dating.
ANSTO
The Accelerator Mass Spectrometry Group operates the AMS resources at ANSTO, including the measurement capabilities at the Australian National Tandem for Applied Research (ANTARES) and sample processing and target preparation in the AMS chemistry laboratories.
Canada
Geological Survey of Canada (GSC) - Radiocarbon Dating
IsoTrace - The Canadian Centre for Accelerator Mass Spectrometry
Brock University (LSC), sample submission forms, prices, etc.
Denmark
University of Aarhus - AMS Radiocarbon Dating Laboratory
France
Centre de datation par le RadioCarbone - Université Claude Bernard I, Lyon, France
Information in French and English: measurement techniques, sample submission forms, etc.
Germany
Deutsches Archäologisches Institut - Berlin. Website in German, with English version in preparation.
Erlangen-Nürnberg University AMS Group; same site auf Deutsch
Institut für Bodenkunde - Isotopendatierungslabor - University of Hamburg (in German)
University of Heidelberg Institute for Environmental Physics
Leibniz Labor for Radiometric Dating and Isotope Research - Christian Albrechts University, Kiel; same site auf Deutsch List of services, pricelists, sample data sheets
Köln Radiocarbon Laboratory - Cologne University - Institute of Prehistoric Archaeology, Köln-Lindenthal, Germany
Greece
Laboratory of Archaeometry, National Center for Scientific Research Demokritos - Information in English and Greek
Ireland
Radiation Physics Research Laboratory, University College, Dublin - Sample submission forms, prices
Italy
CEDAD, AMS Radiocarbon Dating Facility, University of Lecce
ENEA Bologna Research Center, Bologna
Korea
Inter-University Center for Natural Science Research Facility, Seoul National University
Netherlands
Centre for Isotope Research, Groningen
Utrecht University AMS Facility
New Zealand
Rafter Radiocarbon Laboratory (AMS)
Price lists for dating, illustrations of pretreatment and measurement equipment.
University of Waikato Radiocarbon Dating Laboratory (AMS) including:
New Zealand Archaeological Date List
WebInfo - Radiocarbon Dating
Poland
Gliwice Radiocarbon Laboratory
Information in Polish and English about the lab's operations, staff, publications, and upcoming conferences.
Poznan Radiocarbon Laboratory
Information about the lab's 1.5SDH-1 spectrometer "Compact Carbon AMS" produced by NEC.
Senegal
Institut Fondamental d’Afrique Noire (IFAN)
South Africa
Quaternary Dating Research Unit (QUADRU)
Pretoria Dating Laboratory, South Africa. Proportional gas counting for radiocarbon, and several other dating techniques.
Sweden
University of Lund Department of Quaternary Geology
Switzerland
University of Zurich Dep't of Geography Radiocarbon Laboratory
Includes downloadable sample forms
ETH/PSI AMS facility, Zurich Switzerland
Information about dating services and AMS equipment
United Kingdom
NERC Radiocarbon Laboratory, East Kilbride, Scotland
Information about dating services and grant funding for analysis
Oxford University - Research Lab for Archaeology and Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit
Information about dating services and OxCal calibration program
Queen's University of Belfast - Radiocarbon Laboratory
Information on dating options, sample size requirements
SURRC Radiocarbon Laboratory, Glasgow, Scotland
Commercial service, quality assurance, submission forms, prices.
United States
Beta Analytic Radiocarbon Dating -Radiometric, AMS, Stable Isotopes and SEM
Beta Analytic is the largest radiocarbon dating facility in the world, currently analyzing 10,000 samples each year for researchers worldwide.
Center for Applied Isotope Studies - University of Georgia
Radiometric and stable isotope dating and other services
Geochron Laboratories - Cambridge, Massachussets
Isotope analyses for researchers in the fields of geology, economic geology, geochronology, archaeology, anthropology, and hydrology; environmental, metabolic, and food adulteration studies.
Keck-Carbon Cycle AMS facility (KCCAMS) - University of California, Irvine
A compact AMS particle accelerator, a dedicated companion instrument for measuring carbon stable isotope ratios, A new sample preparation laboratory to supplement existing UCI preparation labs to pre-treat, combust, hydrolyze and graphitize radiocarbon samples.
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory Center for Accelerator Mass Spectrometry (CAMS)
Measurements of eight anthropogenic and cosmogenic isotopes.
NOSAMS, National Ocean Sciences Accelerator Mass Spectrometer Facility at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
Information on AMS dating, World Ocean Circulation Experiment (WOCE)
Purdue Rare Isotope Measurement Laboratory (PRIME Lab)
AMS dating of C14 and other radionuclides, chemical sample preparation; newsletter "What's new at PRIME Lab"
T.M.B.Group Inc, Stable Isotope Ratio Laboratory - Miami, Florida
Stable isotope ratio measurement of 13C/12C, 13C/12C, and 18O/16O
NSF - University of Arizona AMS Facility
Information on dating, fees, sample submission form
University of Arizona - Department of Geosciences, Laboratory of Isotope Geochemistry
Stable isotope and C14 measurements. Price list, downloadable sample information form
University of Colorado-INSTAAR Laboratory for AMS Radiocarbon Research
Information on services, projects, sample submission.
University of Minnesota, Limnological Research Center
AMS C-14 Target Preparation Unit, with downloadable sample forms
University of Washington Quaternary Isotope Lab
Includes download access to CALIB calibration program.

OK Dave, now you please give me an example of a successful business that is based on the scientific evidence for a 6000 year old Earth.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:20

ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT THE PICTURE ABOVE -- WHERE DID ALL THAT DIRT GO?

The standard answer for how the Grand Canyon was formed for over a century has been that primarily the Colorado River and side streams carved out the Grand Canyon over millions of years. If that happened, wouldn’t you expect to find a gigantic river delta where the Colorado River enters the Gulf of California? It’s not there. Nor can geologists find it anywhere else. Where did all the dirt—1,000 cubic miles of it—go?

MAYBE JonF CAN TELL US WHERE THE GIGANTIC RIVER DELTA IS ...

******************************

OA ...

Quote

He wanted us to believe he was a sh*t hot fighter jock when all he ever flew were unarmed trainers.

Oh really? Where did I ever try to "get you to believe I was a sh*t hot fighter jock" ?? Wanna try to back that one up there, Mr. OA?

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A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:27

Thankyou for the gigantic list of successful Oil and Gas Exploration companies ...

That wasn't exactly what I meant by an example ...

I forget that I have to be very specific with you all because you get confused easily ...

Let's try again ...

Please take ONE company and show me how the "Long Age Interpretation" of geology helped them turn a profit.

Is that simple enough for you?

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:32

Quote (afdave @ July 18 2006,10:27)

Thankyou for the gigantic list of successful Oil and Gas Exploration companies ...

That wasn't exactly what I meant by an example ...

I forget that I have to be very specific with you all because you get confused easily ...

Let's try again ...

Please take ONE company and show me how the "Long Age Interpretation" of geology helped them turn a profit.

Is that simple enough for you?

Here's a link for BP, in addition to the one for Shell that you apparently missed.

--------------

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)

Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:38

Quote (afdave @ July 18 2006,10:20)

MAYBE JonF CAN TELL US WHERE THE GIGANTIC RIVER DELTA IS ...

Um, Baja, California?

What do I win?

--------------

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)

Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:39

Quote

ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT THE PICTURE ABOVE -- WHERE DID ALL THAT DIRT GO?

The standard answer for how the Grand Canyon was formed for over a century has been that primarily the Colorado River and side streams carved out the Grand Canyon over millions of years. If that happened, wouldn’t you expect to find a gigantic river delta where the Colorado River enters the Gulf of California? It’s not there. Nor can geologists find it anywhere else. Where did all the dirt—1,000 cubic miles of it—go?

MAYBE JonF CAN TELL US WHERE THE GIGANTIC RIVER DELTA IS ...

Much of the sediment IS in the Pacific, more of it is scattered around other older outlets for the Colorado River

Quote

The reason that it looks the way does is due to the sequence in which the events that help to create it happened. We already know that there was once a very tall chain of mountains in the area that occupied the Grand Canyon. These mountains were, over many millions of years, eventually eroded away to form a level plain. Fluctuations in climate then caused the oceans to move in over successive periods and each time a new rock layer was deposited. The rock layers were deposited one on top of the other and sometimes there were long periods in between in which some of the upper layers were eroded away, sometimes completely.

And now the Colorado River comes into play. The ancestral "Colorado River" came into being when the Rocky Mountains to the east of the Grand Canyon were formed, at sometime around 60-70 million years ago, as the primary western drainage for these mountains. Over millions of years the course of this ancestral river changed its course a number of times as the terrain around it was altered. The course of the ancestral Colorado River probably started in Colorado and at one point it entered the region of Marble Canyon, but that is about all that can be agreed upon at this point.

Some geologists believe that very young rock layers to the west of the Grand Canyon, dated at only 5 and 10 million years old, and through which the Colorado now flows, indicate that the river could not have been flowing there prior to that time. The river had to cut through these layers after they were deposited. The search for another exit for the Colorado River from the Grand Canyon has been a hotly debated issue. Some geologists believe that it flowed out of Marble Canyon where the Little Colorado now enters, others believe that it exited near present day Diamond Creek and still others believe that it exited through massive caves in the Redwall Limestone. The most likely exit at this point seems to be up through Kanab Creek which would have had the ancestral river flowing back up into Utah and then across Nevada and California to the Pacific.

At around 17 million years ago, while the river was flowing across this ancient landscape, the land mass know as todays Colorado Plateau began to uplift. The uplift was caused by pressures deep with the Earth and may have been caused by additional conflict between the North American Plates and the Pacific Plates. This process continued until around 5 million years ago which interestingly enough is the date of the sedimentary layers just west of the plateau. At its greatest hieght the Colorado Plateau was once about three miles above sea level. The rise of the plateau probably prevented the seas from submerging it again and instead the topmost layers were eroded away and carried into the sea. The most favorable currently accepted theory is that the Colorado River continued to cut through the Colorado Plateau while the land rose around it.

At some point around 5 million years ago something happened to cause the Colorado to change its course and exit via its present route down to the Gulf of California. The most likely cause for the change in its course was probably due to it being captured by another river, which was draining the western portion of the Colorado Plateau. This other river eroded northward along the San Andreas fault, then eastward and eventually entered the Grand Canyon and joined with the Colorado near present day Kanab Creek. The Colorado would then have abruptly changed its course and flowed out this newly formed exit.

Much of the eastern Grand Canyon was already formed by the time the river changed its course. Side canyons had formed along fault lines in the rock and these were eroded away and the rock within them carried down to the Colorado. The Colorado River took all of the rock that was put into it and carried it off to the Pacific Ocean. Over many more millions of years the erosion along the course of the Colorado continued to widen the Canyon to present the vistas that you see today. Before the Glen Canyon Dam was built the Colorado River used to carry three cubic miles of sediment into the Pacific Ocean every hundred years.

Source

Hey numbnuts, where did all the soil in YOUR dumbass model go, huh? Or better yet,

Where did all the flood water go?

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

deadman_932

Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:48

Why are you ignoring the questions that were posted for you, Dave? Oh, and by the way, the Baja outlet for the Colorado River in fact has just the right amount of sediment to explain where the material went.

The walls of the Grand Canyon still are vertical or near-vertical Dave. There is no place on the Toutle that is vertical. Some areas on the GC simly eroded after formation, others didn't. Big deal. Now show me a vertical wall on the Toutle

As for your "test" on layered material...is that supposed to mean something special to you? The layer in the GC is not the same as that of Mt. St. Helens geologically...but things in photos can look alike...so? How is that supposed to help you when such layers can be differentiated by anyone not using a photograph to "analyze" them?

Now try answering the questions that were asked of you, Dave.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: July 18 2006,05:53

Quote

Please take ONE company and show me how the "Long Age Interpretation" of geology helped them turn a profit.

How about Geochron Labs ?

Quote

Geochron Laboratories has been providing high quality isotopic analyses to geological and archaeological communities for more than thirty years. Established in 1960 in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Geochron was the first laboratory to provide both potassium-argon age determinations and stable isotope ratio analyses on a commercial basis. Our analytical services also include radiocarbon age determinations as well as other radiometric analyses and we remain a world leader in these and all our services.
Geochron's facilities are housed in a single building with an area of 11,000 square feet and include:

Radiocarbon laboratory with preparation equipment for the conversion of carbon in various types of samples to an appropriate counting medium, and both gas proportional counters and a Quantulus liquid scintillation counter for precise 14C activity measurement. We also can arrange for 14C analysis by accelerator mass spectrometry.

Stable isotope laboratory with various preparation lines and two VG Micromass gas source stable isotope ratio mass spectrometers for analyzing nitrogen, sulfur, carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen isotopes on a variety of materials.

Tritium laboratory with distillation equipment and a Quantulus liquid scintillation counter for determining tritium activity in water samples by direct counting.
A staff directory and list of analytical services are provided on this site. Please do not hesitate to contact us to discuss in more detail the nature of your research and samples. We will help you decide which analyses are most appropriate for your research and advise you on sample selection, sample size, and shipping guidelines.

For more detailed information on the topics in this web site, we recommend the book Principles of Isotope Geology, 2nd edition, by Gunter Faure, published by John Wiley & Sons, 1986.

Geochron Labs

There ya go Davie, plenty of detail for your pea brain to choke on.

Also, read the PDF file from BP that improvius provided. It has LOTS of detail about oil and gas exploration using old Earth geological models.

Now how about you quit stalling your lazy ass and give me an example of a successful business that is based on the scientific evidence for a 6000 year old Earth.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: July 18 2006,05:56

Quote (afdave @ July 18 2006,06:47)

Let's analyze this statement ...

Gee, Dave, do you think it could have had something to do with the fact that the Mt. St. Helens sediment is loose, unlithified volcanic ash only a few weeks old

Yes ... DING DING DING ... Eric wins the Gold ... Lesson learned? Horizontal strata is laid down RAPIDLY. Canyons form RAPIDLY.

and the Grand Canyon is a few thousand feet of sediment laid down over a few million years?

Eeeerrrrr! Crash and burn!! Er ... uh ... horizontal strata and canyons form rapidly EXCEPT in the case of the Grand Canyon ... everyone knows that it took millions of years ... all the geology books say so!! Never mind that Derek Ager and Co. have thrown Lyell out the window and that the Creationists were right after all about Catastrophism. Never mind that NO ONE has ever seen a little river carve a huge canyon like the Grand Canyon ... never mind all that ...

No, Dave. Wrong again. The Toutle River canyon has a very different profile from the Grand Canyon, I've already pointed this out to you, and shown you not only how it's different, but why. Did you listen? Did you pay attention? Of course not. Because in your world, anything that contradicts your worldview simply doesn't exist.

Are the sediments in the Toutle River Canyon of volcanic origin? Yes. Were they laid down rapidly? Yes. What's the angle of repose of the canyon walls? Around 45 degrees.

Now, what about the Grand Canyon? Are the sediments volcanic? No. Were they laid down rapidly, all at the same time? No. What's the angle of repose? Almost 90 degrees.

No, Dave. Sediments don't form rapidly everywhere except the Grand Canyon. They form slowly except during volcanic eruptions! Could you be any more ignorant?

No one's seen a river carve a canyon like the Grand Canyon, Dave, because you can't just stand there and watch a canyon being carved unless you're going to stand there for a few million years! Could you be any more idiotic?

The only one here crashing and burning, Dave, is you. It's happened so many times you're nothing but a mass of burn scars.

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

deadman_932

Posts: 3094
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