Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::The "I Believe In God" Thread

OgreMkV

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,11:03

Hey IBIG, are Arabs Caucasian?

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Stanton

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,11:07

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,10:41)

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 09 2011,09:11)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,08:42)

I believe that God created life, therefore I believe that Abiogenesis (life arose from non-life by natural causes without the aid of a Creator) is wrong.

Sigh...

And who created God?

And anyway, you yourself say that the origin of life is not known but in the same paragraph say that you know what the origin of life was.

Make up your "mind".

God always was! He wasn't created.

And how is this supposed to be an explanation of how saying GODDIDIT is supposed to be more scientific than actual science?

Stanton

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,11:09

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 09 2011,11:03)

Hey IBIG, are Arabs Caucasian?

Given as how IBelieve (apparently deliberately) conflates Muslims with atheists, and that he thinks that the first Muslims were not Arabs, I think that this new question of yours is far beyond the pathetic ability of IBelieve's pitiful intellect to answer.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,11:11

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,10:41)

God always was! He wasn't created.

And you know this how?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger�s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

blipey

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,11:17

IBIG, can you define the following words?

1. Evidence
2. Empirical

Thanks.

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And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

Stanton

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,11:31

Quote (blipey @ Jan. 09 2011,11:17)

IBIG, can you define the following words?

1. �Evidence
2. �Empirical

Thanks.

That's a question that IBelieve's massive ego and withered intellect prevent him from answering.

After all, he said so, himself, that he's free to refuse to answer any on or off-topic question we ask him, but we're still obligated to worship his every inane claim because he has FAITH

MadPanda, FCD

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,11:46

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,10:41)

God always was! He wasn't created.

Bald assertion without evidence. Also incoherent and abstract, demonstrating nothing beyond an absurdity.

Biggy and evidence are not on speaking terms, it seems. No matter how often we tell him that assertion, scripture, and word games don't count, that's all he ever gives us. And then he wonders why the magic words don't work.

The MadPanda, FCD

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"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

OgreMkV

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,12:27

Of course. We all know that IBIG is afraid to pray because he knows that there will be no result and that means, either his God is not benevolent, his God doesn't actually care, or his God doesn't exist.

Either way, IBIG has wasted, what appears to be a large chunk of his life and much of his intellect on a notion created by some primitive sheepherders.

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fnxtr

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,12:34

I'm starting to feel like the mean kid at school who torments the short-bus kids. This isn't fun anymore.

Biggy, you're welcome to your faith. I hope it makes you happy, and a kinder, more generous human being.

Just keep it out of publicly-funded schools, okay?

Thanks. Bye now.

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"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night." Joe G

prong_hunter

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,14:33

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,08:42)

I believe that God created life, therefore I believe that Abiogenesis (life arose from non-life by natural causes without the aid of a Creator) is wrong. You can't get around the fact that it is not KNOWN, how life actually came to be, therefore it would be a type of belief, for one to accept any way that life may have come into existence. �

Dear IBIG,

I guessed correctly, based upon your earlier posts, that you believe life comes only from life, and God has always been alive, thus his creation of life on Earth was not abiogensis.

I challenge your statement that "it is not KNOWN".

There is a US Patent that says it IS known. I don't believe you have read it. It is real. It has been issued by the US government, the same government that guarantees your right to say whatever you want.

You are very busy, I guess. I can't get you to address a post. Perhaps I should swear at you, insult you, in ALL CAPS, with lots of exclamation points!

You believe abiogenesis is impossible. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR HEART IS!

You are a successful businessman. I'm convinced you tithe to your church, probably you double-tithe (don't tell me, I just want to convey the type of believer you are).

Why don't you hire a patent attorney and file a patent for "only life can create life"? If "life from non-life" can get a patent, then surely "only life can create life" can too.

If you really, truly believe it, and if you are the successful businessman you claim, why not do this for God and Church?

Thank you for reading this.

Schroedinger's Dog

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,15:09

Quote

I believe that God created life, therefore I believe that Abiogenesis (life arose from non-life by natural causes without the aid of a Creator) is wrong. You can't get around the fact that it is not KNOWN, how life actually came to be, therefore it would be a type of belief, for one to accept any way that life may have come into existence. �

I would go the simpler way of saying that, while abiogenesis is still a widely misunderstood subject, there are many well known processes that give clues to ways of getting life from non-life. It might be a bit stretched, to the dogmaticaly blind, but the fact is it will always be 10000000 times more fascinating and satisfying than "goddidit!", which has NO SINGLE BEGINNING OF A PROOF OR EVIDENCE OR FACEBOOK PHOTO-ALBUM WHATSOEVER!

IBIG faces the choice of using his brains to understand the world he lives in, or blindly believing a book written by goat-hearders a few millenias ago.

I think in the end, his stupidity is more a case of being a lazy-ass crook than actualy being stupid. The guy can turn a phrase, which is more than the usual creotard can ever achieve...

EDIT: "I believe X is correct, therefore I believe Y is wrong" is NOT an argument...

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"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

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phhht

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Joined: Oct. 2010

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,15:47

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,08:42)

Quote (phhht @ Jan. 09 2011,08:27)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,08:09)

Let me add to my previous post. If one were to state that once there was no biological life on earth, then that statement would be true, but that wasn't the question.

To state that once there was no life, one would have to have complete knowledge, which clearly is impossible, therefore to make such a statement would be a false statement.

OK, I'll qualify the statements to read

1. �Once there was no biological life on earth.

2. �Now there is.

You apparently accept both statements. �Yet you maintain that abiogenesis is "impossible."

Then you must redefine abiogenesis to mean something other than the �
creation of life from non-living matter. �Right? �So what does "abiogenesis" really mean? �Enlighten me, Poofster.

I believe that God created life, therefore I believe that Abiogenesis (life arose from non-life by natural causes without the aid of a Creator) is wrong. You can't get around the fact that it is not KNOWN, how life actually came to be, therefore it would be a type of belief, for one to accept any way that life may have come into existence. �

Now let me ask you this just for arguments sake (I don't believe this), but what if life came to earth from somewhere else in the universe? Are you certain that didn't happen?

Just as I thought, you redefine abiogenesis. In your version, it's

1. Once there was no biological life on earth.

POOF!

2. Now there is.

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Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothese-la.
-- Pierre Simon Laplace, explaining the absence of any mention of God in his work

Stanton

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,16:22

Quote (phhht @ Jan. 09 2011,15:47)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,08:42)

Quote (phhht @ Jan. 09 2011,08:27)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,08:09)

Let me add to my previous post. If one were to state that once there was no biological life on earth, then that statement would be true, but that wasn't the question.

To state that once there was no life, one would have to have complete knowledge, which clearly is impossible, therefore to make such a statement would be a false statement.

OK, I'll qualify the statements to read

1. �Once there was no biological life on earth.

2. �Now there is.

You apparently accept both statements. �Yet you maintain that abiogenesis is "impossible."

Then you must redefine abiogenesis to mean something other than the �
creation of life from non-living matter. �Right? �So what does "abiogenesis" really mean? �Enlighten me, Poofster.

I believe that God created life, therefore I believe that Abiogenesis (life arose from non-life by natural causes without the aid of a Creator) is wrong. You can't get around the fact that it is not KNOWN, how life actually came to be, therefore it would be a type of belief, for one to accept any way that life may have come into existence. �

Now let me ask you this just for arguments sake (I don't believe this), but what if life came to earth from somewhere else in the universe? Are you certain that didn't happen?

Just as I thought, you redefine abiogenesis. � In your version, it's

1. �Once there was no biological life on earth.

POOF!

2. �Now there is.

You forgot step 3, where IBelieve then proceeds to gloat and boast how his "explanation" is magically more scientific than actual science, which is actually, magically fraudulent because it offends him and his FAITH.

phhht

Posts: 38
Joined: Oct. 2010

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,17:30

[quote=phhht,Jan. 09 2011,15:47][quote=IBelieveInGod,Jan. 09 2011,08:42] �

Quote (phhht @ Jan. 09 2011,08:27)

You can't get around the fact that it is not KNOWN, how life actually came to be, therefore it would be a type of belief, for one to accept any way that life may have come into existence. �

You misunderstand scientific claims, Poofster. �It doesn't have to be KNOWN how life actually came to be. � All we have to show is how it could have happened, without any magical poof. �

It abiogenesis could have happened without any magic, why should we assume that there was any?

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Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothese-la.
-- Pierre Simon Laplace, explaining the absence of any mention of God in his work

MichaelJ

Posts: 462
Joined: June 2009

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,19:16

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 09 2011,11:47)

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 08 2011,20:10)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 08 2011,19:31)

Quote (Robin @ Jan. 06 2011,10:01)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 05 2011,20:11)

�

Quote

Tell me how many people have been slaughtered by Atheistic Countries, or none Christian countries? You seem to think that those who follow God are the problem. I also have a problem with Religion, and there are many Religions, but there is only one true God, only one that we can have a Relationship with.

What an ignorant question that completely misses the point. What country or countries have ever slaughtered people �in the name of atheism? Any? No. Not a one. In fact, I can't think of any single person who's ever been killed in the name of atheism. Yet billions of people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity alone. Try again, IBIG.

Here is the post that started all of my posts about killing in the name of Atheism Ogre. Yes this was about Atheism Ogre you are wrong. You want to change the subject, because you are wrong. So, you can't handle being a miserable?

Let me ask this question, is the current war between the Palestinians and Israel and religious war? Or is it a battle over land?

That's right IBIG, you still can't say that atheists killed people because they were religious. �There were additional factors, unlike all the instances of Religious people killed other religious (or non-religious) people.

The history has been explained to you, you don't want to get it or think that it makes all the deaths by Christians OK. �That's not our problem IBIG.

Christians (and other religions) have killed waaaaay more than any atheists have ever even tried to. �You can't get away from this fact and it makes everything else, pretty much moot.

Then you can't say that Christians killed because they were Christian, there were other factors. Don't you see the silliness of your argument.

I'm sorry but you have no idea what actual history really is. You and your ilk revise history to you liking.

Stalin killed 21 million Christians, because He didn't want anyone to practice their Christianity, or any religion. You don't know what you are talking about. I believe if you were a dictator of a country, that you would outlaw all religions, and would eliminate those who broke your law by imprisonment or death. I really believe that you have that much hatred against the practice of ones faith.

I don't agree with you that Christians (and other religions) have killed waaaay more than any atheists have ever even tried to. Why do you back that up with actual verifiable numbers, and remember you have to demonstrate that these Christians were true Christians and not (wolves in sheep's clothing) "False Christians" out to devour.

IBIG - Do you have a reference for the 21 million people killed for practicing Christianity? I have no doubt he killed that many people, but I hadn't heard it was because they were practicing Christianity.

That's what gets me about these guys, they will happily make shit up then accuse Atheists of not having morals

Stanton

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,19:29

Quote (MichaelJ @ Jan. 09 2011,19:16)

...

That's what �gets me about these guys, they will happily make shit up then accuse Atheists of not having morals

Well, many Creationists believe that slandering and lying or committing any other sins is permissible, automatically pardoned, and aggressively encouraged if it's done for Jesus.

It is ironic that Creationists hoop and holler about how following a literal interpretation of the Bible is the primary requirement of salvation while possessing this attitude.

MichaelJ

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,20:15

Quote (Stanton @ Jan. 10 2011,10:29)

Quote (MichaelJ @ Jan. 09 2011,19:16)

...

That's what �gets me about these guys, they will happily make shit up then accuse Atheists of not having morals

Well, many Creationists believe that slandering and lying or committing any other sins is permissible, automatically pardoned, and aggressively encouraged if it's done for Jesus.

It is ironic that Creationists hoop and holler about how following a literal interpretation of the Bible is the primary requirement of salvation while possessing this attitude.

I did some fact checking and although Religion was suppressed but not forbidden. A lot of religious leaders were arrested but this was mainly because they were supporters of the old corrupt regime and acting against the state.

I think that the big losers during Stalin were the peasant farmers, intellectuals, ethnic minorities and non-Christians. Some links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....t_Union

So we have that people by and large were not killed in the name of Atheism, most died due to appalling economic policies and being seen as enemies of the state. Not that this would stop ImaBIGliar from continuing to use this.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989....in.html

OgreMkV

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Posted: Jan. 09 2011,22:37

Thanks Mike... as usual, IBIG doesn't have a clue and just makes up shit that he thinks is the way it ought to be.

I gave that up about 20 years ago after continually getting my ass handed to me in debates like this. I decided I didn't want to lose and since then I haven't told a single lie, I haven't made up a single point, and I haven't lost a single argument with dummies like IBIG.

Hey, IBIG, I got a guy on another forum that says Intelligent Design is inherently areligious... you want to go set him straight?

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Quack

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,03:37

Quote (phhht @ Jan. 09 2011,17:30)

It abiogenesis could have happened without any magic, why should we assume that there was any?

Indeed. All our experience tells us that nothing ever on this planet or elsewhere happens by magic. So why resort to magic as the only 'reasonable' explanation when there's no reason whatsoever to believe that magic works?

Why the absurd, cruel and unnecessary Flood when you have unlimited magical powers? Makes sense only as a myth.

ETA missing 'e'

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Rocks have no biology.
Robert Byers.

Robin

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,08:01

ETA: Misfire

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. �Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Robin

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,08:04

[quote=IBelieveInGod,Jan. 08 2011,19:31][/quote]

Quote

Quote (Robin @ Jan. 06 2011,10:01)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 05 2011,20:11)

�

Quote

Tell me how many people have been slaughtered by Atheistic Countries, or none Christian countries? You seem to think that those who follow God are the problem. I also have a problem with Religion, and there are many Religions, but there is only one true God, only one that we can have a Relationship with.

What an ignorant question that completely misses the point. What country or countries have ever slaughtered people �in the name of atheism? Any? No. Not a one. In fact, I can't think of any single person who's ever been killed in the name of atheism. Yet billions of people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity alone. Try again, IBIG.

Here is the post that started all of my posts about killing in the name of Atheism Ogre. Yes this was about Atheism Ogre you are wrong. You want to change the subject, because you are wrong. So, you can't handle being a miserable?

Yet you've still not provided any example of a country that has ever killed in the name of atheism. So no...you lose.

Quote

Let me ask this question, is the current war between the Palestinians and Israel and religious war? Or is it a battle over land?

It's pretty much a squabble over land though there are other cultural issues at play.

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. �Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Badger3k

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Joined: Mar. 2008

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,10:28

Quote (Robin @ Jan. 10 2011,08:04)

[quote=IBelieveInGod,Jan. 08 2011,19:31][/quote]

Quote

Quote (Robin @ Jan. 06 2011,10:01)

Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Jan. 05 2011,20:11)

�

Quote

Tell me how many people have been slaughtered by Atheistic Countries, or none Christian countries? You seem to think that those who follow God are the problem. I also have a problem with Religion, and there are many Religions, but there is only one true God, only one that we can have a Relationship with.

What an ignorant question that completely misses the point. What country or countries have ever slaughtered people �in the name of atheism? Any? No. Not a one. In fact, I can't think of any single person who's ever been killed in the name of atheism. Yet billions of people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity alone. Try again, IBIG.

Here is the post that started all of my posts about killing in the name of Atheism Ogre. Yes this was about Atheism Ogre you are wrong. You want to change the subject, because you are wrong. So, you can't handle being a miserable?

Yet you've still not provided any example of a country that has ever killed in the name of atheism. So no...you lose.

Quote

Let me ask this question, is the current war between the Palestinians and Israel and religious war? Or is it a battle over land?

It's pretty much a squabble over land though there are other cultural issues at play.

It's over land but heavily affected and rationalized by religion. The Israelis think they have been promised the land by their god, and many think they are on a holy war, and that means no compromising with, say, international law and humanitarian considerations. Religion is used on both sides to continue the conflict, and interviews with many on both sides constantly bring up that point. Settlers refuse to move because "YHVH gave us this land" and people refuse to stop fighting because the enemy are "infidels".

If religion and superstition were removed, if nothing else it would take away one reason, and maybe people might be a bit more reasonable. How much is unknown, but I think it would be fairly significant.

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"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

Robin

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,12:19

Quote (Badger3k @ Jan. 10 2011,10:28)

Quote

It's pretty much a squabble over land though there are other cultural issues at play.

It's over land but heavily affected and rationalized by religion. �The Israelis think they have been promised the land by their god, and many think they are on a holy war, and that means no compromising with, say, international law and humanitarian considerations. �Religion is used on both sides to continue the conflict, and interviews with many on both sides constantly bring up that point. �Settlers refuse to move because "YHVH gave us this land" and people refuse to stop fighting because the enemy are "infidels".

If religion and superstition were removed, if nothing else it would take away one reason, and maybe people might be a bit more reasonable. �How much is unknown, but I think it would be fairly significant.

Nicely put. I'll defer to your assessment Badger.

---

ETA: Fixed HTML syntax

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. �Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

MichaelJ

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Joined: June 2009

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,17:50

If it wasn't about religion nobody would have seriously entertained creating the state of Israel post world war II. Could you imagine a group of people saying I want this country for ourselves because we lived here 2000 years ago?

MadPanda, FCD

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Joined: Nov. 2010

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,18:02

I'm sure there are a number of First Nations that would be willing to front that opinion, as would the Aboriginal peoples of Aussie-land...

The comparison is hardly equivalent, though: the better parallel in both cases would be the Palestinians.

The MadPanda, FCD

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"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

Badger3k

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,18:08

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Jan. 10 2011,18:02)

I'm sure there are a number of First Nations that would be willing to front that opinion, as would the Aboriginal peoples of Aussie-land... � :D

The comparison is hardly equivalent, though: the better parallel in both cases would be the Palestinians.

The MadPanda, FCD

The First Nations folk (and others) have maintained a presence on the land, though, so I agree that the better parallel would be the Palestinians. You're correct, though, that if it wasn't for the babble, there would have been no State of Israel being created. If it weren't for religious inspired Rapture Retards, there wouldn't be the fanatical level of support for the country despite the numerous violations of international law and human rights abuses that happen in the region.

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"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

MadPanda, FCD

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,18:22

One could point out that if not for their faith inciting the zealots to be such annoying little barbarians in the first place, then the Diaspora might well not have happened...

But noooooooo, they just had to piss off the Romans, who had very little in the way of a sense of humor when it came to things like obeying the law and honoring the Emperor. Nope. Just couldn't do like everybody else and salute with one hand while crossing their fingers behind their backs. Had to be special, didn't they?

Bloody idiot Sadducees and their legalistic wrangling! Obviously didn't learn from what happened to Carthage.

(Okay, yes, I'm being a bit too flippant with this, but it's hard to see the Judean Revolt as a good idea in the first place. Feel free to insert Life of Brian jokes as needed.)

The MadPanda, FCD

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"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

Badger3k

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,18:40

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Jan. 10 2011,18:22)

One could point out that if not for their faith inciting the zealots to be such annoying little barbarians in the first place, then the Diaspora might well not have happened...

But noooooooo, they just had to piss off the Romans, who had very little in the way of a sense of humor when it came to things like obeying the law and honoring the Emperor. �Nope. �Just couldn't do like everybody else and salute with one hand while crossing their fingers behind their backs. �Had to be special, didn't they? � :p �Bloody idiot Sadducees and their legalistic wrangling! �Obviously didn't learn from what happened to Carthage.

(Okay, yes, I'm being a bit too flippant with this, but it's hard to see the Judean Revolt as a good idea in the first place. �Feel free to insert Life of Brian jokes as needed.)

The MadPanda, FCD

One of the reasons, at least, was the desecration of the Temple (IIRC - I may be mixing up the numerous revolts - 3 major ones I think), but the refusal to offer worship to the Emperor got both Christians and Jews in trouble. The broader issue of monotheism's authoritarianism vs polytheism's Lassaiz-faire (sp?) attitude contributed to the problem as well.

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"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

MadPanda, FCD

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,18:43

Yeah, more or less.

You'd think they'd have learned something from all that.

The MadPanda, FCD

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"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

OgreMkV

Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

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Posted: Jan. 10 2011,18:48

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Jan. 10 2011,18:43)

Yeah, more or less.

You'd think they'd have learned something from all that. �:p

The MadPanda, FCD

They are fundamentalist Christians, they haven't learned anything in 2000 years.

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