RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (4) < 1 [2] 3 4 >   
  Topic: Will a "gay gene" refute I.D.?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2006,17:40   

Russell opines,

Quote
No half-educated person is suggesting that sexuality isn't largely - though not exclusively - determined biologically.

No "scientists" - or scientists - telling anyone what public schools to teach...


But is homosexuality really "sexuality" in the evolutionary sense?  On what account?

If schools are teaching evolution as "fact" and homosexuality as "normal" then homosexuality is a product of evolution?  This doesn't make ANY sense at first glance.

You are essentially claiming a "self-destruct gene."  Are you proposing this Russell?

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2006,18:06   

Quote
This doesn't make ANY sense at first glance.
Hey, he got one thing right! Good for him.

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2006,19:26   

Quote
You are essentially claiming a "self-destruct gene."  Are you proposing this Russell?
You're spluttering again, Thordude. Take a deep breath. Now, let it out slowly. Good! Now another...There now. Feeling better?

I asked you to point out specifically what was said, and by whom, that has you in such a lather. You never answered. Someone less hysterical was kind enough to point me to the website, where I found a not very surprising article providing more evidence that people don't simply decide whether they're going to be homo- or heterosexual.  You disagree?  Great! I guess the only difference between you and the Brain Research Institute is they have data.

But let's get to the real heart of the matter, shall we? I mean, who cares whether it's the direct action of a gene, or the indirect result of dozens genes interacting with who knows what in the environment? Anyone with half a brain will surely agree that (1) sexual orientation is largely a product of biology (2) that a small, but significant, fraction of kids will turn out to be homosexual. So, given that, what do you, Thorguy, propose should be taught in school about it?

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,01:40   

Quote (Seven Popes @ April 06 2006,18:12)
I wonder who has more STD's and domestic violence, redneck men or Lesbians?  Should we teach the virtues of the Lesbian Lifestyle, and warn the flower of American womanhood about rednecks?

LOL!

Who said you can't know your science and have a sense of humour at the same time...

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,02:06   

Quote
Why and/or how are we teaching the "complex set of behaviors" of homosexuality to grade school children?  And secondly, what is the strong science that LEADS one away from the free-will hypothesis?


Regarding free will you seem to be confusing two issues. Indeed it is a choice to live a homosexual 'lifestyle' and to have homosexual sex. But I am curious as to what evidence you have that in the majority of cases the feelings of attraction towards the same sex are a result of free will.

Most gay people I know started to have these feelings at the same time or slightly later than the rest of us do. Many people struglle with it for years and it can take a psychological toll, especially when they have been raised in an environment where they have come to regard it is sinful. Additionally if they decide to come out they can expect much ridicule and bullying, especially if it is at a young age. Im not sure what you mean by teaching that homosexuality is normal, but it is very important that people who are gay are taught that there is nothing wrong with that. Of course they should be taught the statistics about AIDs etc, I certainly was when I was in high school, in the US is there a deliberate attempt to hide this information?

Teaching people that it is not OK to be gay will not make less people gay it will just make more people depressed and unhappy.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,03:29   

Quote
teaching the "complex set of behaviors" of homosexuality to grade school children
LOL. Yeah, being gay takes training. You bet.

"I wish I could quit you! But I'm so well trained."

   
qetzal



Posts: 311
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,03:47   

Quote (thordaddy @ April 06 2006,17:53)
Given these very simple facts, is it wise and prudent, let alone "educational," to teach children of the "normalcy" of homosexuality (normal as compared to what)?

Quote (thordaddy @ April 06 2006,18:17)
I only asked if it was wise and prudent, let alone "educational," to teach about the "normalcy" of homosexuality.

Quote (thordaddy @ April 06 2006,22:33)
Why and/or how are we teaching the "complex set of behaviors" of homosexuality to grade school children?

It has been repeatedly pointed out that public schools do not teach grade school children about homosexuality! Yet you keep asking the question. Why, I wondered?

Suddenly, I realized my misunderstanding. "We" in your questions obviously refers to you and your spouse/significant other/life partner/whatever. You are teaching your grade school children that homosexuality is normal, and you want to know if we can explain why. Right?

Sorry, can't help you. I have no idea why you teach your grade school children that homosexuality is normal, since you clearly don't believe it. Maybe you need some counseling?

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,10:31   

Russell opines,

Quote
But let's get to the real heart of the matter, shall we? I mean, who cares whether it's the direct action of a gene, or the indirect result of dozens genes interacting with who knows what in the environment? Anyone with half a brain will surely agree that (1) sexual orientation is largely a product of biology (2) that a small, but significant, fraction of kids will turn out to be homosexual. So, given that, what do you, Thorguy, propose should be taught in school about it?


First, you play the wise, cool, calm and collected scientist well.  Unfortunately, I am having the most enjoyable time on this site.

1. What is sexual orientation in evolutionary matters?  

2. Why would evolution produce a "homosexual" orientation in humans?

3. Why would we teach a behavior as "normal" if statistics show a high correlation (over-representation) between the behavior (homosexuality) and AIDS, STDs, drug abuse and domestic violence?

These are very simple and straighforward questions.  I assume you will impart upon me your wisdom that coincides with your answers?

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,10:46   

Chris Hyland opines,

Quote
Regarding free will you seem to be confusing two issues. Indeed it is a choice to live a homosexual 'lifestyle' and to have homosexual sex. But I am curious as to what evidence you have that in the majority of cases the feelings of attraction towards the same sex are a result of free will.


There is NO strong evidence for anything else.  An evolutionary pathway to a "homosexual" orientation seems contradictory on its face.  The search for a "gay gene" has resulted in nothing accept the exposure of science's corruptability under the pressure of political ideologues.  Homosexuals and Lesbians differentiate in many respects in terms of their "gay" behaviors suggesting 2 "gay genes" or evolutionary pathways towards "gayness."  Then we must throw in "bisexuality" which makes an evolutionary explanation all that more improbable.  

Quote
Most gay people I know started to have these feelings at the same time or slightly later than the rest of us do. Many people struglle with it for years and it can take a psychological toll, especially when they have been raised in an environment where they have come to regard it is sinful. Additionally if they decide to come out they can expect much ridicule and bullying, especially if it is at a young age. Im not sure what you mean by teaching that homosexuality is normal, but it is very important that people who are gay are taught that there is nothing wrong with that. Of course they should be taught the statistics about AIDs etc, I certainly was when I was in high school, in the US is there a deliberate attempt to hide this information?


Nothing wrong?  If the behavior shows overrepresentation in terms of AIDS, STDs, drug abuse, domestic violence and early morality then how can you say there is "nothing wrong" with that behavior?

With friends like Chris, homosexuals need more friends like thordaddy.

Is "nothing wrong" the equivalent of saying it's "normal?"

Quote
Teaching people that it is not OK to be gay will not make less people gay it will just make more people depressed and unhappy.


But you're assuming an unmalleable biological "orientation."  What's the evidence, I ask?

  
avocationist



Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,10:54   

Thor,

You said,
Quote
Most of us don't choose our heterosexuality, but a very few of us have inclinations that defy evolution.
Is that your answer to my question about whether or not you could easily turn off your attraction to the female body? That some people can but most can't? That it takes a strong (and presumably wicked) inclination to go against the tide of attraction but that it's really there all along? Would you be happy letting your daughter marry a gay guy who realized it was wrong/impractical to be gay and repented? I'm not talking about disease - let's say he's young and healthy. A woman kind of thrives when her husband is attracted to her. Do you really think this guy will give her that? Because I've spent a lot of time around gay guys, and I never felt from them any attraction or tension of the sort that usually occurs when males are around. It is so extremely comfortable that women often say gay guys make great friends.

Have they just buried their attraction to the female? Why doesn't it jump out at odd moments?

Quote

2. Why would evolution produce a "homosexual" orientation in humans?
That question has been answered. Why do you repeat it as if you had not read the responses. Tell us why you disagree with the answers, don't ignore them.

  
jeannot



Posts: 1201
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,10:58   

Quote

There is now strong evidence for anything else.

If you think you freely chose your attraction towards females, you're profoundly mistaken.
 
Quote
A evolutionary pathway to a "homosexual" orientation seems contradictory on its face.

Care to read what we told you?
Quote
 The search for a "gay gene" has resulted in nothing accept the exposure of science's corruptability under the pressure of political ideologues.  

Could you back-up your assertion?

(why do I ask anyway...?  :( )

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,11:02   

Thordaddy, do honestly believe anyone would actually choose to be gay? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to be gay in America? If being homosexual were some sort of "choice," no one in his or her right mind would "choose" to be homosexual.

I actually live in a region of the country where a significant fraction of the population is gay. And if you think that gay people suffer by comparison to straight people in any significant moral or ethical way, you're not just wrong, you're ignorant. I generally find gay people more intelligent, more engaging, more compassionate, more considerate, and generally more admirable than straight people. And I'm straight myself, if you think that I might in some way be prejudiced against straight people.

Are there gay people who are jerks? Of course. On the other hand, gay jerks are massively outnumbered by straight jerks.

And if you think defining the "beginning of life" is hard, try defining "normal."

As usual, you're trying to find some way to get science to support your bigotries and prejudices. It ain't gonna work.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,11:53   

Quote (thordaddy @ April 07 2006,15:31)
3. Why would we teach a behavior as "normal" if statistics show a high correlation (over-representation) between the behavior (homosexuality) and AIDS, STDs, drug abuse and domestic violence?

You mean, why is it considered normal to like a drink, even though alcohol is the number one factor in late evening violence, wife beating, liver cirhosis, etc etc?  You'd think that if alcohol was relly as bad as it was we would all hate the stuff.  

And just to drive the point home again- the difference between the alcohol and homosexuality is that you dont have brain structures and hormones pushing you to take a drink, at least not as far as I know.  There is more "free will" involved.  But with sexuality, all the available evidence says it is hard wired in.  Your pupils dilate and other bodily signs change when you see an attractive member of the opposite sex.  

Besides, I note you havnt actually produced any of these studies that show high correlations with anything, and of course you keep leaving lesbians out of it.  I wonder why?

  
jeannot



Posts: 1201
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,12:08   

I don't think homosexuality should be taugh as "normal", since it's obviously not the norm (heterosexuality is).
However, since it's pretty common and, more importantly, not a reprehensible behavior (it's just two people that love each other), I don't get your concern here, daddy. ???

BTW, do you know the difference between correlation and causation?
Don't you grasp that, since homosexuals are constantly rejected, they are more susceptible to fall into drug addiction and violence?

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,12:17   

Our disagreement appears to rest mainly on the fact that you believe homosexuality to be a choice. You ask for proof otherwise, Im not sure what form this would take, as I would guess you think gay people are lying about this fact.

Quote
An evolutionary pathway to a "homosexual" orientation seems contradictory on its face.
I never said there was one, assuming it's psychological that does not mean it is the result of free will. However as I pointed out before, the existence of a 'gay gene' will lead many people to feel justified in calling it a genetic disease.

Quote
Homosexuals and Lesbians differentiate in many respects in terms of their "gay" behaviors.
Lesbians are homosexuals.

Quote
Nothing wrong?  If the behavior shows overrepresentation in terms of AIDS, STDs, drug abuse, domestic violence and early morality then how can you say there is "nothing wrong" with that behavior?

Again they should be told this, Im not saying you should encourage people to be gay, but people do commit suicide because they are gay in a society where it is seen as a sin. Students have an over representation of stds, religious people have an over representation of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STDs, teen pregnancy, and abortion. I do not think we should tell people religion and going to university are wrong, but these things are more of a choice than being gay. Again just because you are gay does not mean you go out and sleep with loads of random guys and take drugs, these things are choices, being attracted to the same sex is not.

Quote
But you're assuming an unmalleable biological "orientation."  What's the evidence, I ask?
I am happy for ther sake of argument to assume its psychological, but in the vast majority of cases it is not a choice, unless of course there is a big gay conspiracy I am not aware of. As for malleability, electric shock therapy has been shown to do the trick.

Quote
Is "nothing wrong" the equivalent of saying it's "normal?"
The most important question. No it is not, nothing wrong means that they are not automatically bad people, or sinners. They need all the information about the statistics you mentioned, and then they may or may not choose to live that lifestyle.

  
avocationist



Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,12:40   

I am more than willing to put my vast reputation on the line with the prediction that homosexuality in the majority of cases can be traced to the brain.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,13:28   

Quote
Nothing wrong?  If the behavior shows overrepresentation in terms of AIDS, STDs, drug abuse, domestic violence and early morality then how can you say there is "nothing wrong" with that behavior?


Again (third time! ), got any EVIDENCE for the assertion that gays disproportionately have problems with domestic violence or drug abuse? Cuz you see, TD, you just hating gays does not constitute 'evidence', doncha know...

Also, 3rd time again, these figures are not true of gay women. Gay women have lower STD and 'early morality' rates than any other group. Does that mean they're the most moral people in society of all? Shouldn't we be teaching women to emulate them? If not, why not?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2006,14:15   

Quote
(Arden Chatfield: ) Again (third time! ), got any EVIDENCE for the assertion ...
Also, 3rd time again,...Shouldn't we be teaching women to emulate [lesbians]? If not, why not?

I don't suppose I'm going to have any more luck with my question:
Quote
Anyone with half a brain will surely agree that (1) sexual orientation is largely a product of biology (2) that a small, but significant, fraction of kids will turn out to be homosexual. So, given that, what do you, Thorguy, propose should be taught in school about it?

Because apparently Thordude has the "most enjoyable time on this website" by avoiding ever answering questions.

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
qetzal



Posts: 311
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,04:34   

Quote (Russell @ April 07 2006,19:15)
[A]pparently Thordude has the "most enjoyable time on this website" by avoiding ever answering questions.
Nor ever reading any answers to his.

I see no point in attempting to engage him in honest discussion. He is quite clearly incapable of it. He's either being deliberately obtuse and dishonest, or he has some deficit in mental capacity. Perhaps both.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,06:33   

Quote
Thordaddy:  Why would we teach a behavior as "normal" if statistics show a high correlation (over-representation) between the behavior (homosexuality) and AIDS, STDs, drug abuse and domestic violence?


As others have alluded to, that correlation implies causation is a logical fallacy.

Correlation DOES NOT imply causation

This is Basic Logic 101, but it seems to have eluded Thordaddy.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1776
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,09:33   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ April 08 2006,11:33)
...

This is Basic Logic 101, but it seems to have eluded Thordaddy.

Many things elude Thordaddy.

I would guess that Thordaddy believes himself a moral person. Yet his behaviour here so-far indicates otherwise.

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,11:01   

avocationist opines,

Quote
Is that your answer to my question about whether or not you could easily turn off your attraction to the female body? That some people can but most can't? That it takes a strong (and presumably wicked) inclination to go against the tide of attraction but that it's really there all along? Would you be happy letting your daughter marry a gay guy who realized it was wrong/impractical to be gay and repented? I'm not talking about disease - let's say he's young and healthy. A woman kind of thrives when her husband is attracted to her. Do you really think this guy will give her that? Because I've spent a lot of time around gay guys, and I never felt from them any attraction or tension of the sort that usually occurs when males are around. It is so extremely comfortable that women often say gay guys make great friends.


I don't think there is any evidence that people choose their heterosexuality.  Most people will readily admit that they didn't.  This seems to make sense because evolution HAS NO NEED to devise "sexual orientations" especially those (homosexuality, lesbianism, bisexuality) that seemingly defy the basis for evolution, namely, reproduction.  There are a lot of "choices" people make that they wish that hadn't.  Does this means they are ALL genetically-based "choices?"

Quote
Have they just buried their attraction to the female? Why doesn't it jump out at odd moments?


Or they are really just attracted to other males and they rely on those like you who say, "Who would choose this lifestyle?"  They derive benefit from the behavior?


Quote
That question has been answered. Why do you repeat it as if you had not read the responses. Tell us why you disagree with the answers, don't ignore them.


Then write the answer out specifically so I don't miss again, please?

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,11:16   

ericmurphy opines,

Quote
Thordaddy, do honestly believe anyone would actually choose to be gay? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to be gay in America? If being homosexual were some sort of "choice," no one in his or her right mind would "choose" to be homosexual.


Would anyone honestly choose to do a lot of things that have negative consequences?  Obviously, they do! Is your stance that all such situations genetically-based?  So if no one would "choose" to be homosexual, is such an orientation ABNORMAL?

Quote
I actually live in a region of the country where a significant fraction of the population is gay. And if you think that gay people suffer by comparison to straight people in any significant moral or ethical way, you're not just wrong, you're ignorant. I generally find gay people more intelligent, more engaging, more compassionate, more considerate, and generally more admirable than straight people. And I'm straight myself, if you think that I might in some way be prejudiced against straight people.


That matters NOT A WIT to a father who has 2 young children and has to make a decision to send his children into a very deceitful school system.

I mean, look at all the responses from supposed scientists, and the total denial of the fact that American homosexuals are HIGHLY-OVERREPRESENTATED in incidences of AIDS, STDs, drug abuse, domestic violence and early mortality.

This is a fact and you are suggesting I should remain ignorant to the fact that the California school system has a friendly pro-gay stance.  Homosexuality is "normal," but then it isn't because NO ONE would CHOOSE such a lifestyle, right?

Quote
Are there gay people who are jerks? Of course. On the other hand, gay jerks are massively outnumbered by straight jerks.


But I could care less about "homosexual" personalities.  I've known gay people and whatever they do in their personal life is their business.  Teaching the "normalcy" of homosexuality is a whole other ballgame for a father of two.

Quote
And if you think defining the "beginning of life" is hard, try defining "normal."


So again we play the game.  Blur what it is to mean "normal" and abracadabra... Homsexuality is normal.

Quote
As usual, you're trying to find some way to get science to support your bigotries and prejudices. It ain't gonna work.


But of course... do you do anything different?  Your whole retort was devoid of any science and totally represented your biases and prejudices in favor of the "normalcy" of homosexuals.  Then again, NO ONE would choose to be "homosexual."  But they're still "normal."

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,12:17   

Quote
I mean, look at all the responses from supposed scientists, and the total denial of the fact that American homosexuals are HIGHLY-OVERREPRESENTATED in incidences of AIDS, STDs, drug abuse, domestic violence and early mortality.


'OVERREPRESENTATED', eh? Sounds pretty bad, whatever it means. The caps just make it more severe...

And last time you said they had high rates of 'early morality'. Which is it, 'early morality' or 'early mortality'?

So, for the 4th time, have any EVIDENCE for these claims, TD?

Cuz, you know, hating gays and putting your comments in boldface doesn't prove shlt, don't you know.

Well, I don't know, maybe that IS proof if you think that science and religion are the same thing.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,12:25   

Could somebody explain to me what you guys get out of arguing "issues" with the mentally retarded?

It's amazing how long these ridiculous threads go.

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,13:07   

Arden,

You asking me to provide evidence for my assertions is like me asking you for evidence of evolution.

You want to say I'm in denial while you are in denial.

The difference is that I don't claim to be an "objective" scientist.

Let's ask a scientific question?

Why would evolution devise a "sexual orientation?"

  
avocationist



Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,13:27   

Thor,

Quote
I don't think there is any evidence that people choose their heterosexuality.  Most people will readily admit that they didn't.  This seems to make sense because evolution HAS NO NEED to devise "sexual orientations" especially those (homosexuality, lesbianism, bisexuality) that seemingly defy the basis for evolution, namely, reproduction.  There are a lot of "choices" people make that they wish that hadn't.  Does this means they are ALL genetically-based "choices?"
No, it does not. but evidence from animal studies that I have read, which were about pollution and not sexuality, discovered that in nature there is a wide array of sexual expressions in, for example, mice, and it depends upon the levels of hormone that each embryo was exposed to in the womb. This is normal variation, not pathological. For example, a male lying between two sisters or a female lying between two brothers will get a bigger dose of exposure to the opposite sex hormones. This affects brain development and later sexual expression. The more masculine females are less common and less attractive to the males, but under adverse conditions are more likely to thrive. There are just too many stories of people feeling different from childhood and being bewildered by their lack of attraction to the opposite sex, which they fully expected. There are many tragic stories of suicidal despair by homosexual who tried and wished they could change. Tchaikovsky is supposed to have killed himself over it, and died believing he was headed to ####.

Quote

Have they just buried their attraction to the female? Why doesn't it jump out at odd moments?
__
Or they are really just attracted to other males and they rely on those like you
Thor this response makes absolutely no sense. Because yes, we are saying exactly that - they are just attracted to other males. and why is that?

Quote
Then write the answer out specifically so I don't miss again, please?
Briefly, that a human group which has the occasional adult who isn't marrying and producing kids has extra assistance in raising the young. I've certainly noticed that gay people are often close to their parents and lend them more support in their old age. It is pretty taxing to have a family of your own as you well know. A childless uncle may take greater interest in his nieces and nephews since he is less burdened. And someone quoted a study showing that women with a gay relative seem to have more children.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,13:34   

Quote
Thordaddy: I mean, look at all the responses from supposed scientists, and the total denial of the fact that American homosexuals are HIGHLY-OVERREPRESENTATED in incidences of AIDS, STDs, drug abuse, domestic violence and early mortality.


And African-American males ages 18-29 are also HIGHLY-OVERREPRESENTATED in the same areas.  For the third time, correlation DOES NOT imply causation.

Has it ever dawned on your bigoted little brain that such numbers could be affected by the stress due to discrimination, social ostracism, and threats of physical violence that gays are subjected to?

The Australian Medical Association did detailed studies in 2002 that came to exactly that conclusion.

Please read carefully the sections on discrimination, and its negative effect on health.

Quote
1.Sexual Diversity in Society
1.1 Homosexuality is defined as the sexual and emotional attraction to members of the same sex, and has existed in most societies for as long as sexual beliefs and practices have been recorded. The proportion of the population that is not exclusively heterosexual has been estimated at between 8 and 11 percent. This figure will naturally vary depending on the definitions used to describe the continuum of sexual identity that exists in our society.

1.2 Societal attitudes towards homosexuality have had a decisive impact on the extent to which individuals have been able to express their sexual orientation. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. Subsequently homosexuality was recognised as a form of sexual orientation or expression rather than a mental illness.2 This move by the medical professional was instrumental in improving the health and welfare of this population.

1.3 Strong family connections are important to the health and well being of individuals, and recently there has been greater recognition of the diversity of family structures that exist in our society. These family structures could include nuclear families, single parents, blended families from remarriages as well as gay and lesbian parents. Accurate statistics regarding the number of parents who are gay or lesbian is difficult to obtain, as this data is not routinely collected. However, the American Academy of Paediatrics states that ‘the weight of evidence gathered during several decades using diverse samples and methodologies is persuasive in demonstrating that there is no systematic difference between gay and nongay parents in emotional health, parenting skills, and attitudes towards parenting. No data have pointed to any risk to children as a result of growing up in a family with one or more gay parents.’

2. Discrimination
2.1 The term “heterosexism” has been used to describe the discrimination against gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and intersex (GLBTI) populations. Heterosexism encompasses the belief that all people are and should be heterosexual and that alternative sexualities pose a threat to society. In this way heterosexism includes homophobia, a fear of alternative sexualities, and transphobia, a fear of alternative gender identities. It may also include a fear of intersex people who do not fit neatly into the binary categories of male and female.

2.2 Discrimination may be overt as in verbal abuse and physical violence or as covert as the silence that surrounds talking about GLBTI issues. This affects all members of society as individuals comply with gender role stereotypes in order to avoid homophobic discrimination. It is a constraint on human behavior that serves to diminish individual potential for development as well as diversity in our community.

2.3 The common experience of discrimination means that the health of GLBTI populations differs from that of the general population. This discrimination leads to health problems that are shared by this group as well as health problems specific to each subgroup. For GLBTI individuals the impact of this discrimination can lead to a poorer general health status, diminished utilization of healthcare facilities and a decreased quality of health services.

3. Shared Health Issues
3.1 Society’s acceptance of diverse sexualities and gender identities is a major factor in an individual’s successful transition through various lifestages. These significant lifestages include childhood, youth, middle age and ageing. As GLBTI people transition through these lifestages there are a number of health issues that are commonly faced.

3.2 Mental health problems are statistically over-represented in this population throughout life due to exposure to discriminatory behavior. One of the main groups affected by homophobia is same-sex attracted young people, particularly those living in rural areas where there is greater social isolation from GLBTI peers and role models. A consequence of this discrimination for GLBTI young people is that they have increased rates of homelessness, risk-taking behavior, depression, suicide and episodes of self-harm compared to their heterosexual cohorts.

3.3 The experience of violence is higher for the GLBTI community than the general population10 and a recent survey of the GLBTI community in Victoria indicated that “over 70% of respondents had been subject to an experience of public abuse in the past 5 years”. This experience may range from verbal abuse to physical attack. The experience or threat of violence has the potential to have a significant impact on an individual’s physical and mental health.

3.4 Patterns of drug and alcohol use within the GLBTI community are greater that that of the general population. The increased incidence of smoking and alcohol intake is also of concern in relation to cardiovascular risk factors. There is support for the theory linking individual patterns of drug and alcohol misuse with experiences of discrimination.


AMA Position Statement on Sexual Diversity

If you wish to raise your kids to be as bigoted as you are, that's your decision.  Just don't expect them to get very far in the modern world.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,13:35   

Quote
Arden,
...

Let's ask a scientific question?

Why would evolution devise a "sexual orientation?"

Yeah Arden! You got an answer for that? Got something for that in your big answer-book? Huh?

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 08 2006,13:59   

:07-->
Quote (thordaddy @ April 08 2006,18:07)
Arden,

You asking me to provide evidence for my assertions is like me asking you for evidence of evolution.

You want to say I'm in denial while you are in denial.

The difference is that I don't claim to be an "objective" scientist.

Let's ask a scientific question?

Why would evolution devise a "sexual orientation?"


Gotcha, TD. Beautiful nonanswer. Basically, you're making shlt up. Thanks for clarifying that.

I forgot, this is Planet Thordaddy, where if Thordaddy believes anything strongly enough that makes it true.

And if someone else shows him he's full of shlt, that proves that person is 'nonobjective'.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
  112 replies since April 06 2006,06:47 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (4) < 1 [2] 3 4 >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]