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VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,10:32   

Like father and son, what do you mean?




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I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,10:34   

Quote (VMartin @ Aug. 10 2007,10:32)
Like father and son, what do you mean?



Yes, because Wesley often waxes lyrical about Marxism.....


NURSE" He's out of bed again! (compliments to Mr Stephen Fry for that one)

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,10:49   

Actually, I had a professor at TAMU say that I looked like Alfred Russel Wallace.



Maybe VMartin has me confused with Lenny... One thing's for sure, VMartin certainly has enough confusion to satisfy a legion.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,11:08   

My guess is that anyone who advocates evolution is the same as a Marxist in VMartin's little world.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,11:12   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 10 2007,11:08)
My guess is that anyone who advocates evolution is the same as a Marxist in VMartin's little world.

Which is even more bizarre, since Marxism is, by it's very nature, a benign entity. Irrespective of whether you think it's a good thing, it has, at it's heart, the concpet that everyone should be more equal than they are, and that those who push others into the dirt are acting in a harmful way.

It took Lenin to make it into a psychopathic, murderous quasi-religion.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,12:15   


Darwin's discovery is the highest triumph of the dialectic in the whole field of organic matter.





Hurrah, Comrades!





Charles Darwin's evolution is right.


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I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,12:21   

Since you're not exactly being witty OR coherent, maybe you could tell us what your point is?

For instance, why did you compare Wes to Marx, when the two of them look nothing alike?

Come on, V, make sense for once in your life. You can do it!

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,13:05   

Quote (VMartin @ Aug. 10 2007,12:15)

Darwin's discovery is the highest triumph of the dialectic in the whole field of organic matter.





Hurrah, Comrades!





Charles Darwin's evolution is right.

One word. Lysenkoism.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,13:13   

Quote

One word. Lysenkoism.


Lysenko was kind of a lamarckian:

Quote

The most glaring manifestation of such debasement of Darwinism is to be found in the teachings of Weismann, Mendel, and Morgan, the founders of modern reactionary genetics.


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I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,13:17   

Quote

As a rule, each given generation of a plant or animal develops largely in the same way as its predecessors, particularly its close predecessors. Reproduction of beings similar to itself is the general characteristic of every living body.


Trofim Denisovitch Lysenko, July 31, 1948

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,13:18   

Quote (VMartin @ Aug. 10 2007,13:13)
Quote

One word. Lysenkoism.


Lysenko was kind of a lamarckian:

 
Quote

The most glaring manifestation of such debasement of Darwinism is to be found in the teachings of Weismann, Mendel, and Morgan, the founders of modern reactionary genetics.

Yes. Well done, an actually lucid point. An actual point, no less.

Now, was the CCCP favourable to Lysenkoism, yes or no?

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,13:18   

Quote (VMartin @ Aug. 10 2007,13:13)
Quote

One word. Lysenkoism.


Lysenko was kind of a lamarckian:

 
Quote

The most glaring manifestation of such debasement of Darwinism is to be found in the teachings of Weismann, Mendel, and Morgan, the founders of modern reactionary genetics.

A classic VMartin nonanswer.

A hint, V: in the West, calling your opponents Commies is considered kind of unimpressive.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,13:58   

Be careful, VMartin, don't admit Arden is right, you don't want to "come to bad end" like Legion. Hahaha!

A comment thread that I think should be gold-plated, if I may brag. Some chemist could do that.

Louis. :)

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 10 2007,15:03   

Yeah, here is the authority beyond all others for VMartin and Davison, the one person they should be quoting to show just how wonderful their ideas are:

Quote


We must realize that the formation of a species is a transition -- in the course of a historical process -- from quantitative to qualitative variations.  Such as[sic] leap is prepared by the vital activity of organic forms themselves, as the result of quantitative accumulations of responses to the action of definite conditions of life, and that is something that can definitely be studied and directed.  

Such an understanding of the formation of species, an understanding of its natural laws, places in the hands of biologists a powerful means of regulating the vital process itself and consequently also the formation of species.

I think that, in posing the question this way, we may take it for granted that what leads to the formation of a new specific form, to the formation of a new species out of an old one, is not the accumulation of quantitative distinctions by which varieties within a species are usually recognized.  The quantitative accumulations of variations which lead to the change from an old form of species to a new form are variations of a different order.

[...]

Living nature is a biological chain separated, as it were, into individual links, or species.  It is therefore wrong to say that a species does not retain the constancy of its qualitative definiteness as a species for any length of time.  To insist on that would be to regard the evolution of living nature as proceeding as if along a plane, without any leaps.


And just for the whipped topping, our sterling expert delves into Davison's favored mechanism, change of karyotype:

Quote

Durum, i.e., a hard 28-chromosome wheat, is converted into several varieties of soft 42-chromosome wheat; nor do we, in this case, find any transitional forms between the durum and the vulgare species. The conversion of one species into another takes place by a leap.


Yes, Davison's unacknowledged hero truly is:

Trofim Denisovitch Lysenko, 1948, "The Science of Biology Today," Presidential Address, Session of the Soviet Academy of Agricultural Sciences, International Publishers: New York.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
VMartin



Posts: 525
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,02:31   

John Davison and me are now something like "lysenkoists".

Lysenko:
   
Quote

We must realize that the formation of a species is a transition -- in the course of a historical process -- from quantitative to qualitative variations.


Another lysenkoist was the late Stephen J. Gould. In Panda's Thumb he wrote:

   
Quote

"In the Soviet Union, for example, scientists are trained with a very different philosophy of change - the so-called dialectical laws, reformulated by Engels from Hegel's philosophy. The dialectical laws are explicitly punctuational. They speak, for example, of the 'transformation of quantity into quality.' This may sound like mumbo jumbo, but it suggests that change occurs in large leaps following a slow accumulation of stresses that a system resists until it reaches the breaking point. Heat water and it eventually boils. Oppress the workers more and more and bring on the revolution. Eldredge and I were fascinated to learn that many Russian palaeontologists support a model similar to our punctuated equilibria."


Beware of "lysenkoists". They are like "trockists" everywhere.

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I could not answer, but should maintain my ground.-
Charles Darwin

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,03:19   

One thing Gould has going for him is that he's written a humongous book that goes on at length about his views on evolutionary science. The content that Gould wrote there is at significant variance with Lysenko's Michurinism.

VMartin and Davison, on the other hand, have not distinguished their position from that taken by Lysenko, and have a history of supporting argument by quotation of dead authority rather than how scientists usually approach things. VMartin and Davison seem to believe that guilt by association works.  (And apparently VMartin is stunned by the idea that someone else could not only return the favor, but do so with evidence of shared conceptual viewpoint between himself and the figure of historical villainy rather than flailing away, as VMartin does, at non-existent connections.) They don't have much room to talk concerning the obvious consilience of their position, so far as it is stated, with that of Comrade Lysenko. The obvious way to show that they don't share Lysenko's views is to repudiate the view, not to claim that others share their taste in conceptual company. Especially when that last bit of theirs, the supposed identity between Gould's views and those of Lysenko, is an obvious lie. Pretty desperate move, VMartin, but no amount of incompetence from VMartin is likely to surprise me.

Gould's The Structure of Evolutionary Theory vs. Lysenko's The Science of Biology Today

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,12:07   

Quote
John Davison and me are now something like "lysenkoists".


This from the person who calls Darwinists Communists and Nazis.

Seriously, I suggest VMartin be moved to the 'pirahna' list.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,17:18   

What the heck does "accumulation of stresses" have to do with biological evolution, which is accumulation of hereditable changes?

Henry

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,19:30   

I see VMartin's English is improving...

again...

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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,20:33   

I'm watching Die Hard 3:

Quote


John: There's gold in the Federal Reserve! And they took a shit load of it!
They are heading North in dump trucks!

Walter: Have you been drinking McClane?

John: No, not since this morning.


   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,21:09   

"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"

How can someone so smart make such a dumb comment?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20226452/site/newsweek/from/RS.5/

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,21:42   

For those who've seen The Wire, did you know there was a real-life Omar?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007....emc=rss

My professional career has had its ups and downs, but "robber of drug dealers" would never have struck me as a reasonable profession.

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 11 2007,21:51   

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 11 2007,21:09)
"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"

How can someone so smart make such a dumb comment?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20226452/site/newsweek/from/RS.5/

Reminiscent of Michael "Belgian Endive" Dukakis.  He better pass on the Snoopy helmet if they ever offer to let him drive a tank.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 12 2007,04:19   

Quote (Kristine @ Aug. 10 2007,19:58)
Be careful, VMartin, don't admit Arden is right, you don't want to "come to bad end" like Legion. Hahaha!

A comment thread that I think should be gold-plated, if I may brag. Some chemist could do that.

Louis. :)

Wrong kind of chemist (ah the tragedy of specialisation), but I do like to play with new kit. I haven't electroplated anything since I was at school! Did a bit of cyclic voltametry as an undergrad. Sort of the same thing! ;-)

Louis

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Bye.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 12 2007,12:53   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Hey!  I thought DaveScot was banned from posting here!

How come this private message for him, wound up here where everyone can...ummm... see it?

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 12 2007,13:08   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

{wakes up}

Wooohhooo! Did someone say porn?

Oh sorry, erm, I meant did someone say "corn", mmm tasty yellow corn, yeah that's it, I loves me some corn.

Corn. Yeah!

Louis

P.S. Porn is bad children, don't do porn. Corn is good children. Mmkay

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Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 12 2007,13:15   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote
I find some links!


Hmmm. Is this VMartin?

(Sorry. That was mean.)

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 13 2007,12:12   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Anyone else presume this was more porn links?

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 13 2007,16:02   

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 11 2007,20:09)
"Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?"

How can someone so smart make such a dumb comment?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20226452/site/newsweek/from/RS.5/

Quote
Anybody gone into Whole Foods lately and see what they charge for arugula?" he asked. Unfortunately, Adel isn't exactly arugula country. "Someone near me whispered, 'What's arugula?' " says Van Fossen, 74. " 'You can't find that in Iowa'." Same goes for Whole Foods. The closest locations, reported The New York Times that evening, are in Omaha, Neb.; Kansas City, Kans., and Minneapolis. Whoops. Right-wing bloggers pounced. The dishy Wonkette called Obama a "super rich Ivy League elitist."

Too much arugula makes you fart, ironically. :)

They don't have dijon mustard in Utah either, apparently.

So it's not all Obama's fault, Steve.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 13 2007,16:16   

And here I was upset over the high price of rats.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
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