Altabin
Posts: 308
Joined: Sep. 2006
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OK, so Dimbski posts a transcript from a book signing with Dawkins, which he purports to be shocked at. Dawkins, in effect, says that, yes, in a sense if we follow through the logic of determinism, we would have to blame atoms for the the terrible things people do. BUT, he acknowledges that we feel like we are free, that he doesn't have a philosophical solution to this problem, and it's a contradiction, a grey area, that he just has to live with.
Dimbo smirks when Dawkins says this has nothing to do with his views on religion - implying (WD, that is) that it has everything to do with religion, though in his mealy-mouthed way he won't commit to saying it on UD.
The UD footsoldiers, following their Dear Leader's cue, jump all over Dawkins - if only he believed in God, he wouldn't need to live with this contradiction any more! Yet one more proof that materialism is wrong!!
At which point, JaredL jumps in with a few very astute posts, pointing out politely that theists seem to be no better off than materialists. If God creates everything, he must also be responsible for Dawkins and the God Delusion; and arguing that there is free will gets you nowhere if you also believe God is omniscient. The conclusion: | Quote |
The classical theist is also a determinist, unless he simply declares, by fiat, free will and infallible foreknowledge are logically compatible, and this despite the argument given in my post at #5. |
The UnDead reply politely -- as they usually do to anyone with some intelligence who visits them -- but mostly cluelessly, simply repeating again and again that there is free will, or merely asserting that there is no contradiction, or observing that it sure feels like we have free will (which no one, even Dawkins, denies). Some do attempt to make reasoned responses, however, and it's beginning actually to look like that rarest of things: an interesting discussion on UD which actually might produce some productive philosophical argument and change some minds.
Eventually, you guessed it, the WAD makes the only intellectual contribution he's ever made to any thread at UD: | Quote |
JaredL: You are herewith limited to two theological posts on any thread. Your confidence in your theological position is out of keeping with its pedigree. Augustine, the Cappadocian Fathers, and Thomas were not slouches and did not derive the reductio ad absurdum that you do. Let’s get this thread back on track, which is the connection between atheistic Darwinism, determinism, and the inability, as a matter of practical life, to live out the latter. |
Pathetic. I agree, it's time to leave them to their own irrelevance.
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