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Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,12:46   

Any cosmologists on this board? Over at UD someone named sinclairjd, who gives as his home page URL the "Reasons to Believe" website of Hugh Ross et al., writes:  
Quote
The direction of quantum cosmology is to deconstruct the notion of time, causation, or both. Hence these cosmologists deny the basic concept of evolution (things change with respect to time as described by reliable laws of physics). Given that biological macroevolution is a special case of capital-E Evolution, these cosmologists are essentially (but unknowingly) denying Darwinism.

I suggest pitting the cosmologists against the biologists. If the cosmologists blink (and they will), they will vindicate the cosmological argument (Kalam version).


--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,13:29   

I'm not sure if this deserves it's own topic, but thanks to Red State Rabble for the heads up on the ICR blasting the DI (and hence Dr. Dr. Dembski & his lickspittles).

http://www.icr.org/pdf/af/af0707.pdf

Are Dembski, DaveScot and Denyse feverishly working on damage control to protect their source of funding from their followers?

Oh.  Wait.  Never mind, I forgot.  ID is not about religion so it won't matter to Jehu et al!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,13:38   

Oops.  Looks like the ICR has stepped outside the big tent, and has started to piss in.

Bob

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,13:40   

Hang on-let me go make some popcorn....

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,14:55   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 09 2007,12:46)
Any cosmologists on this board? Over at UD someone named sinclairjd, who gives as his home page URL the "Reasons to Believe" website of Hugh Ross et al., writes:    
Quote
The direction of quantum cosmology is to deconstruct the notion of time, causation, or both. Hence these cosmologists deny the basic concept of evolution (things change with respect to time as described by reliable laws of physics). Given that biological macroevolution is a special case of capital-E Evolution, these cosmologists are essentially (but unknowingly) denying Darwinism.

I suggest pitting the cosmologists against the biologists. If the cosmologists blink (and they will), they will vindicate the cosmological argument (Kalam version).

What we learn here is that sinclairjd has a talking bum.

I've never heard of any cosmologist who denies that "things change with respect to time as described by reliable laws of physics".  Quantum physics does show that causality gets a little weird at the Planck scale.  The only way that this can be extrapolated to mean what sinclairjd claims is through the application of several thick coats of tard.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,15:27   

it's amazing the amount of unknowing support of ID out there. Maybe one day they will also get some knowing support!

Sal:
   
Quote
Mark Pagel, an evolutionary biologist, gives an unwitting slam of Darwinism. The review was published in the prestigious scientific journal Nature.

   
Quote
Biology has unwittingly adopted the central tenets of ID.

   
Quote
it should be noted Barrow and Davies won an almost combined 3 million dollars in the form of Templeton Prizes for their (perhaps unwitting) ID-sympathetic works. Some of the best ID literature is in places you’d least expect!
Uncommon Descent will from time to time point out other books like Tipler’s Physics of Christianity and now this (unwitting) ID-sympathetic book by renowned scientist Owen Gingerich: God’s Universe

   
Quote
ironically, Daniel Dennett unwittingly gives powerful “scientific” reasons why secularism is doomed and why religion (which tends to be ID-friendly) will prevail

   
Quote
DNA researcher Andras Pellionisz has found unwitting friends in the ID community.

   
Quote
Francis Crick (a Nobel laureate) and Fred Hoyle (author of Intelligent Universe) were valuable (perhaps unwitting) pioneers of modern ID theory. Even today, SETI is used as a staple example for the ID movement.

   
Quote
Last month I pointed out the unwitting admission by some Darwinists that Darwinism is useless to modern medicine (and for that matter modern science).

   
Quote
This month I’m pleased that world’s most prestigious scientific journal, Nature, has published a letter from a biophysicist who has (perhaps unwittingly) shown that the design revolution continues, and Darwinism is slipping into total irrelevance.

   
Quote
And to finish the irony, Darwinist Ken Miller (of all people) unwittingly supports ID in his books:

   
Quote
The point was to show MacCallum is forced to admit Medical Doctors today find little use for Darwinism. Her article unwittingly demonstrates Egnor’s point.

   
Quote
The very existence of her editorial refutes the point she was arguing for. It was an unwitting admission of Darwinism’s irrelevance.

I suppose It kinda makes sense then for Dembski to say:
   
Quote
Unwitting Pro-ID Peer-Reviewed Articles on the Increase . . .

Link

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,16:06   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 09 2007,15:27)
it's amazing the amount of unknowing support of ID out there. Maybe one day they will also get some knowing support!
--snip--
         
Quote
DNA researcher Andras Pellionisz has found unwitting friends in the ID community.

They keep using that word. I do not think it means what they think it means. Perhaps Sal meant witless fiends?

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,16:58   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 09 2007,12:46)
The direction of quantum cosmology is to deconstruct the notion of time, causation, or both. Hence these cosmologists deny the basic concept of evolution (things change with respect to time as described by reliable laws of physics). Given that biological macroevolution is a special case of capital-E Evolution, these cosmologists are essentially (but unknowingly) denying Darwinism.

Cosmology and biology are, of course, two utterly different things.

It's not surprising that creationists are too stupid to realize that.  (shrug)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,18:01   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 09 2007,15:27)
it's amazing the amount of unknowing support of ID out there. Maybe one day they will also get some knowing support!

Sal:
     
Quote
Mark Pagel, an evolutionary biologist, gives an unwitting slam of Darwinism. The review was published in the prestigious scientific journal Nature.

     
Quote
Biology has unwittingly adopted the central tenets of ID.

     
Quote
it should be noted Barrow and Davies won an almost combined 3 million dollars in the form of Templeton Prizes for their (perhaps unwitting) ID-sympathetic works. Some of the best ID literature is in places you’d least expect!
Uncommon Descent will from time to time point out other books like Tipler’s Physics of Christianity and now this (unwitting) ID-sympathetic book by renowned scientist Owen Gingerich: God’s Universe

     
Quote
ironically, Daniel Dennett unwittingly gives powerful “scientific” reasons why secularism is doomed and why religion (which tends to be ID-friendly) will prevail

     
Quote
DNA researcher Andras Pellionisz has found unwitting friends in the ID community.

     
Quote
Francis Crick (a Nobel laureate) and Fred Hoyle (author of Intelligent Universe) were valuable (perhaps unwitting) pioneers of modern ID theory. Even today, SETI is used as a staple example for the ID movement.

     
Quote
Last month I pointed out the unwitting admission by some Darwinists that Darwinism is useless to modern medicine (and for that matter modern science).

     
Quote
This month I’m pleased that world’s most prestigious scientific journal, Nature, has published a letter from a biophysicist who has (perhaps unwittingly) shown that the design revolution continues, and Darwinism is slipping into total irrelevance.

     
Quote
And to finish the irony, Darwinist Ken Miller (of all people) unwittingly supports ID in his books:

     
Quote
The point was to show MacCallum is forced to admit Medical Doctors today find little use for Darwinism. Her article unwittingly demonstrates Egnor’s point.

     
Quote
The very existence of her editorial refutes the point she was arguing for. It was an unwitting admission of Darwinism’s irrelevance.

I suppose It kinda makes sense then for Dembski to say:
     
Quote
Unwitting Pro-ID Peer-Reviewed Articles on the Increase . . .

Link

Maybe this is what Joe the Maytag Man means when he claims most scientists don't support evolution: evidently, most scientists support ID without knowing it.

Shit! We're doing all those UD assholes' work FOR them! Lazy bums.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,18:03   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 09 2007,16:58)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 09 2007,12:46)
The direction of quantum cosmology is to deconstruct the notion of time, causation, or both. Hence these cosmologists deny the basic concept of evolution (things change with respect to time as described by reliable laws of physics). Given that biological macroevolution is a special case of capital-E Evolution, these cosmologists are essentially (but unknowingly) denying Darwinism.


Cosmology and biology are, of course, two utterly different things.

Ah, but this makes sense: from the perspective of the UD crowd, they both fall into the same category, 'fancy book larnin'.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,18:03   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 09 2007,17:58)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 09 2007,12:46)
The direction of quantum cosmology is to deconstruct the notion of time, causation, or both. Hence these cosmologists deny the basic concept of evolution (things change with respect to time as described by reliable laws of physics). Given that biological macroevolution is a special case of capital-E Evolution, these cosmologists are essentially (but unknowingly) denying Darwinism.

Cosmology and biology are, of course, two utterly different things.

It's not surprising that creationists are too stupid to realize that.  (shrug)

With equal logic, SinclairJD can claim that cosmologists are essentially (but unknowingly) denying, say, the Civil War, the eruption of Krakatoa, the industrial revolution, the Edsel  - "things that changed with respect to time as described by reliable laws of physics."

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,20:34   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 09 2007,18:03)
Ah, but this makes sense: from the perspective of the UD crowd, they both fall into the same category, 'fancy book larnin'.

Or, "godless atheism".

Odd that some IDers argue that fine-tuning of the Big Bang proves that God exists, while other IDers argue that the Big Bang is demonstrably wrong, which, uh, proves God exists.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Freelurker



Posts: 82
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2007,21:54   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 09 2007,01:29)
More EF on the Sci Phi Show:

http://thesciphishow.com/forums/index.php?topic=114.msg2026#msg2026


Worth a gander.

See Sal extol previously unknown capabilities of the EF in this UD thread: MIT's Department of Biological Engineering

From my latest comment there:
   
Quote
You claimed that the EF could be used to identify designs such as backup systems. Please show how the EF, a tool that is intended to do nothing more than attribute things to law, chance, or design, can do this.

You don’t have to go through the steps of the EF; just start from the end of the EF process, where you have already determined whether or not there was intelligent causation. Then take us to where you have identified a backup system.

From here, it looks like you are just equivocating on the word “design.”


--------------
Invoking intelligent design in science is like invoking gremlins in engineering. [after Mark Isaak.]
All models are wrong, some models are useful. - George E. P. Box

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,01:34   

There's a nice tale in the history of science, involving Euclid, Newton, Riemann and Einstein, isn't there?

Bob
P.S. Wintermute's Greasemonkey script is great, although I don't appreciate having "Tard Alert!" written next to my name.  :-(

EDIT: OK, so the Greasemonkey script didn't work quite the way I expected it to.  And UD seems to be down at the moment, but the comment came just after below this one.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,06:18   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 09 2007,15:27)
unwitting... unwittingly... unwitting... unwittingly...

Another unwitting research project in support of ID.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,06:23   

For posterity,

crandaddy  
Quote
We need a paradigm case of design in order to have any idea what it looks like, so design (and a designer) at the ground level of our reasoning processes starts with the self as a designer. In this way, I suppose you might say that ID postulates the self as a designer.

Any attribution of design to anything else (i.e. not caused by the self) must be built up from this foundation, and any conclusions of design arrived at are epistimic–they are beliefs which sit atop structures of rational argumentation. Any statement such as “P is designed” is ontological; it is a statement about the way things really are.

Talk of a designer as a designer of some particular object includes the presumption that the particular object is designed. That the particular object is designed is what the IDist concerns himself trying to justify. To employ the use of a proposition asserting the ontic status of design for the particular object (or similarly, postulating the designer qua the designer of the particular object) in the course of rationally justifying belief that the object is designed would be to commit argumentive circularity.

Is it starting to become clearer?

Does anybody know what it means? Is it another unwitting argument in support of ID?

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,06:32   

kairosfocus
Quote
In short, we are NOT merely abstractly “postulating a designer” but reliably abductively inferring from FSCI to design and may then similarly infer from design to designer.

...

–> So, provisonally but confidently, we infer from design to agency as the most factually adequate explanation of design. (Those who would overturn this inference, need to provide observable cases of design that do not trace to agency as the underlying cause. Genetic Algorithms and the like, don’t count, for very obvious reasons tracing to the source of algorithms, the artificial languages and source code used to write them in machine readable form, and the mechanical means of their implementation.)

No, kairosfocus. Not if you want your claim to have scientific validity. All you have done is come up with a hypothesis based on an analogy or perhaps an example. Now, you must treat your claim as a hypothesis, deduce empirical implications, and search for evidence. The most direct implication of design is the existence of a designer (and its characteristics) and a mechanism of implementing the design (and the marks it left behind).

kairosfocus
Quote
PPS: This inference chain: FSCI –> Design –> Agent action pattern of reasoning also resolves the common, “science stopper” objection.

No, it doesn't. You have reached your desired conclusion and don't feel it worth further investigation or skeptical inquiry. The scientific method is not an end-point, but a process of investigation.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,08:58   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 09 2007,15:27)
it's amazing the amount of unknowing support of ID out there. Maybe one day they will also get some knowing support!

Sal:
         
Quote
Mark Pagel, an evolutionary biologist, gives an unwitting slam of Darwinism. The review was published in the prestigious scientific journal Nature.

         
Quote
Biology has unwittingly adopted the central tenets of ID.

         
Quote
it should be noted Barrow and Davies won an almost combined 3 million dollars in the form of Templeton Prizes for their (perhaps unwitting) ID-sympathetic works. Some of the best ID literature is in places you’d least expect!
Uncommon Descent will from time to time point out other books like Tipler’s Physics of Christianity and now this (unwitting) ID-sympathetic book by renowned scientist Owen Gingerich: God’s Universe

         
Quote
ironically, Daniel Dennett unwittingly gives powerful “scientific” reasons why secularism is doomed and why religion (which tends to be ID-friendly) will prevail

         
Quote
DNA researcher Andras Pellionisz has found unwitting friends in the ID community.

         
Quote
Francis Crick (a Nobel laureate) and Fred Hoyle (author of Intelligent Universe) were valuable (perhaps unwitting) pioneers of modern ID theory. Even today, SETI is used as a staple example for the ID movement.

         
Quote
Last month I pointed out the unwitting admission by some Darwinists that Darwinism is useless to modern medicine (and for that matter modern science).

       
Quote
This month I’m pleased that world’s most prestigious scientific journal, Nature, has published a letter from a biophysicist who has (perhaps unwittingly) shown that the design revolution continues, and Darwinism is slipping into total irrelevance.

       
Quote
And to finish the irony, Darwinist Ken Miller (of all people) unwittingly supports ID in his books:

       
Quote
The point was to show MacCallum is forced to admit Medical Doctors today find little use for Darwinism. Her article unwittingly demonstrates Egnor’s point.

       
Quote
The very existence of her editorial refutes the point she was arguing for. It was an unwitting admission of Darwinism’s irrelevance.

I suppose It kinda makes sense then for Dembski to say:
         
Quote
Unwitting Pro-ID Peer-Reviewed Articles on the Increase . . .

Link

It's amazing that even though every piece of research published by "Darwinists" apparently supports the contradictory conjecture of ID--by complete accident!--the stupIDs can't seem to do a single iota of original research to support their own assumed conclusion, even on purpose.

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,09:02   

Quote
Is it starting to become clearer?

Clearer that crandaddy is a pedantic, pseudointellectual, pompous ass who should burn his thesaurus?  Crystal clear.

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,09:06   

Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ July 10 2007,09:02)
Quote
Is it starting to become clearer?

Clearer that crandaddy is a pedantic, pseudointellectual, pompous ass who should burn his thesaurus?  Crystal clear.

Wittingly....or Unwittingly?  
:)

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,09:22   

Quote
It's amazing that even though every piece of research published by "Darwinists" apparently supports the contradictory conjecture of ID


And yet despite all that, the IDers hate 'Darwinists' worse than poison. I'll never understand this.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,09:52   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 10 2007,09:22)
Quote
It's amazing that even though every piece of research published by "Darwinists" apparently supports the contradictory conjecture of ID


And yet despite all that, the IDers hate 'Darwinists' worse than poison. I'll never understand this.

"Data belongs to everyone!"

Set serachbots to "evolution, suprise, machine"

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
hooligans



Posts: 114
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,10:05   

Would you pass Dembski's Final Exam on Rhetoric?

I especially like this question:
 
Quote
13. You are the head of a large public relations firm in New York. A consortium of Christian
businessmen and foundations is fed up with the godlessness of our society and approaches
you to run a “rhetorical campaign” to make Christianity and its moral values credible again
to the wider culture. You have $100,000,000 a year for five years to make the campaign
work (i.e., half a billion dollars total over five years). What programs are you going to
institute and how are you going to allocate that money to restore Christianity as a credible
world view? What objectives could you realistically hope to accomplish? [Example of a
zero-credit answer: give all the money to the ACLU or to the UN.]


Here is another great question from his class about Intelligent Design. I'm wondering what counts as a correct answer, seeing that I can't think of a way to answer the question without running away. Oh wait, Dembski did run away from the Dover Trial. He must of not got any good material from his students to use in the trial. Here is the essaay prompt:
Quote
2. You are an expert witness in the Dover case. You’ve been asked to summarize why you think intelligent design is a fully scientific theory. Do so here. Sketch out ID’s method of design detection and then show how it applies (or could apply) to biological systems. Further, indicate how ID is testable: what evidence would confirm ID and what evidence would disconfirm ID?

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,10:09   

Quote
restore Christianity as a credible
world view?


There's a tacit admission in there somewhere...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,10:14   

Quote (hooligans @ July 10 2007,10:05)
Would you pass Dembski's Final Exam on Rhetoric?

I especially like this question:
 
Quote
13. You are the head of a large public relations firm in New York (Seattle). A consortium of Christian
businessmen and foundations is fed up with the godlessness of our society and approaches
you to run a “rhetorical campaign” to make Christianity and its moral values credible again
to the wider culture. You have $100,000,000 a year for five years to make the campaign
work (i.e., half a billion dollars total over five years). What programs are you going to
institute and how are you going to allocate that money to restore Christianity as a credible
world view? What objectives could you realistically hope to accomplish? [Example of a
zero-credit answer: give all the money to the ACLU or to the UN.]

You are the head of a large public relations firm in New York (or, say Seattle?)...

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,10:17   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 10 2007,10:09)
 
Quote
restore Christianity as a credible
world view?


There's a tacit admission in there somewhere...

More like unwitting...

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,11:11   

Quote (hooligans @ July 10 2007,10:05)
Would you pass Dembski's Final Exam on Rhetoric?

Probably not: and it's my field.  Aside from the ridiculous final question, the whole thing is designed by a philosopher, and philosophers generally have contempt for rhetoric.  Questions are either pointless or philosophical, based on some crudely wielded concepts in logic.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,11:14   

Quote (hooligans @ July 10 2007,10:05)
Here is another great question from his class about Intelligent Design. I'm wondering what counts as a correct answer, seeing that I can't think of a way to answer the question without running away. Oh wait, Dembski did run away from the Dover Trial. He must of not got any good material from his students to use in the trial. Here is the essaay prompt:
Quote
2. You are an expert witness in the Dover case. You’ve been asked to summarize why you think intelligent design is a fully scientific theory. Do so here. Sketch out ID’s method of design detection and then show how it applies (or could apply) to biological systems. Further, indicate how ID is testable: what evidence would confirm ID and what evidence would disconfirm ID?

I've heard of faculty people getting students to do all the legwork, but this is ridiculous.  In all these years, Dembski has failed to do any of these things.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,11:37   

Quote (JohnW @ July 10 2007,11:14)
Quote (hooligans @ July 10 2007,10:05)
Here is another great question from his class about Intelligent Design. I'm wondering what counts as a correct answer, seeing that I can't think of a way to answer the question without running away. Oh wait, Dembski did run away from the Dover Trial. He must of not got any good material from his students to use in the trial. Here is the essay prompt:  
Quote
2. You are an expert witness in the Dover case. You’ve been asked to summarize why you think intelligent design is a fully scientific theory. Do so here. Sketch out ID’s method of design detection and then show how it applies (or could apply) to biological systems. Further, indicate how ID is testable: what evidence would confirm ID and what evidence would disconfirm ID?

I've heard of faculty people getting students to do all the legwork, but this is ridiculous.  In all these years, Dembski has failed to do any of these things.

I guess Bill figures he's out of steam, so he better steal his ideas wherever he can...

However, methinks that East Jesus Bible and Polytechnic is not the place to find great scientific minds.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2007,11:44   

Quote

East Jesus Bible and Polytechnic


Now, now... Will Rogers said that Dallas was where the East petered out, and Fort Worth was where the West began.

Dembski's primary job is in Fort Worth.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
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