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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,14:12   

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 23 2012,10:34)
Quote
Axe and Gauger challenge Shapiro to show that their approach is wrong: We can go into the lab and modify bacterial cells by deleting the entire set of genes dedicated to the synthesis of tryptophan, one of the essential building blocks of proteins. When we observe what happens when these modified cells are given just enough tryptophan to grow and reproduce, we will see lots of things happening, but none that can be expected to reinvent a set of genes for making tryptophan, even in a large population over billions of years.

Two scientists are talking in a lab one day and one says to the other, "Wait till you see my latest discovery. It'll blow your mind!" Naturally intrigued, the second scientist asks for a demonstration of this amazing discovery. At his request, the first scientist gets a spider out of a matchbox, places it on the desk and says, "Spider FORWARD!" At his command, the spider moves forwards. The second scientist, impressed with his friend's command of the spider, congratulates him on his work.

The first scientist then replies, "No, you haven't seen my discovery yet. Wait till you see *THIS*", and he then pulls all of the spiders legs off and places it back on the desk. The first scientist then repeats his order to the spider "Spider, FORWARD", but the spider doesn't move. "Spider, FORWARD". But it still doesn't move. By this point the second scientist is getting a little confused, and so asks his friend what it is he's trying to do, pointing out that the spider isn't going to move. "Exactly!" the first replies. "I've just discovered that when you pull a spider's legs out, they go deaf!"



A spider hears with very tiny hairs, thrichobotria, on its legs.

Now I'm curious: Are the genes for those hairs known?

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,14:21   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 23 2012,09:52)
Joe:    
Quote
Elizabeth,

We will add nested hierarchies to the growing list of things you do not understand.


It's funny how nobody else on UD ever supports Joe's position on anything at all...

Well, the other day kf awared him a brownie point. I'll try and find it. Joe has probably printed it out and put into a golden frame, and now it is hanging next to a crucifix in his workshop.

Edit:
Here it is: http://tinyurl.com/86lwbzk....86lwbzk
Quote
Joe: Thanks for a good response on the tangential matter, as you will see, I am redirecting discussion of the tangential issue elsewhere. KF

I bet Joe copypasta'ed this text from somewhere.

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 1180
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,15:11   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Jan. 23 2012,23:53)

Aha! I peel back my cunning disguise to reveal ... another cunning disguise! Sorry, all of us here at 113 Acacia Avenue, Christchurch are determined that the utmost secrecy must be maintained.

Right in the thick of things for the last year and a half. You have my commiserations.

--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 1180
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,16:31   

Teh funny - Joe to Elizabeth Liddle:  
Quote
Yeah, I admit that you do know quite a bit about silly arguments, but in this case your example does not fit.

If we were to find Tiktaalik-like things in strata before there were tetrapods and after there were fish, then yes, Tiktaalik was just a very long-lived transitional.

EL's response:  
Quote
 
Quote
   and after there were fish

There are still fish.


--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,17:02   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Jan. 23 2012,15:11)

Right in the thick of things for the last year and a half. You have my commiserations.


No, not that long! In and out in flurries for 9 months or so. Regular lurker and gasper!

--------------
SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,17:45   

I present to you......

dFSCI!

gpuccio:
Quote
I have uploaded my scatterplot of Durston’s data about sequence length and functional complexity at imageshack. Here is the link:


It's a start! :P

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,17:55   

It's almost as if dFSCI = sequence length multiplied by the  hocuspocus constant.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
damitall



Posts: 331
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,18:15   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 23 2012,17:55)
It's almost as if dFSCI = sequence length multiplied by the  hocuspocus constant.

You know, there are probably folk at UD who haven't realised that yet, EVEN THOUGH hocuspocus is their very stock-in-trade

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,19:23   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 23 2012,06:45)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 23 2012,08:15)
 
Quote (Kattarina98 @ Jan. 23 2012,03:25)
Well, Cornelius provides good fun, too.


Yeah, Cornelius and his little flock of indoctrinated sheep are fun to prod and play with.

Yeah, it's an addiction.  I just don't feel right unless I get a cuss out from Joe in my inbox every morning.

Too bad he's too scared to say how he really feels on the UD board.

Also too bad that they refuse to actually discuss ID there.

You know what we ought to do.  We ought to start an ID board that actually talks about ID, presents coherent arguments, etc.  We could drive visitors from UD to our site.

We'd become the biggest pro-ID site in the world.  

Then, we tell everyone that, after all this time, we haven't actually found any evidence for ID and therefore must abandon it as a hypothesis.


The ultimate in sock puppetry... a whole puppet website.



Your idea of a puppet site is interesting. The hard part would be coming up with coherent arguments for ID.

I've noticed that joe has been dishing out a lot of insulting remarks on UD lately but as you say he's afraid to say what he really feels. It's entertaining to watch him cowardly dodge direct challenges from you and others to actually back up his claims. He always resorts to calling his opponents a coward even though he and the other IDiots are the ones who always run away from substantiating their claims.

The recent challenge from eigenstate to kairosfocus (gordon elliott mullings) that gordo is running away from as fast as he can is especially demonstrative of just how empty ID 'theory' is. gordo's dictatorial tantrums, and threats of disciplinary steps and beatings with "Mr. Leathers", not only show how crazy gordo is but also how bald his assertions are. gordo, joe, and the rest of the IDiots obviously think that just because they say it, everyone else better believe it, and that settles it, or else! Their dictatorial attitude is just like that of their imaginary god. In their feeble minds, they ARE god.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,19:35   

Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 23 2012,19:23)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 23 2012,06:45)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 23 2012,08:15)
   
Quote (Kattarina98 @ Jan. 23 2012,03:25)
Well, Cornelius provides good fun, too.


Yeah, Cornelius and his little flock of indoctrinated sheep are fun to prod and play with.

Yeah, it's an addiction.  I just don't feel right unless I get a cuss out from Joe in my inbox every morning.

Too bad he's too scared to say how he really feels on the UD board.

Also too bad that they refuse to actually discuss ID there.

You know what we ought to do.  We ought to start an ID board that actually talks about ID, presents coherent arguments, etc.  We could drive visitors from UD to our site.

We'd become the biggest pro-ID site in the world.  

Then, we tell everyone that, after all this time, we haven't actually found any evidence for ID and therefore must abandon it as a hypothesis.


The ultimate in sock puppetry... a whole puppet website.



Your idea of a puppet site is interesting. The hard part would be coming up with coherent arguments for ID.

I've noticed that joe has been dishing out a lot of insulting remarks on UD lately but as you say he's afraid to say what he really feels. It's entertaining to watch him cowardly dodge direct challenges from you and others to actually back up his claims. He always resorts to calling his opponents a coward even though he and the other IDiots are the ones who always run away from substantiating their claims.

The recent challenge from eigenstate to kairosfocus (gordon elliott mullings) that gordo is running away from as fast as he can is especially demonstrative of just how empty ID 'theory' is. gordo's dictatorial tantrums, and threats of disciplinary steps and beatings with "Mr. Leathers", not only show how crazy gordo is but also how bald his assertions are. gordo, joe, and the rest of the IDiots obviously think that just because they say it, everyone else better believe it, and that settles it, or else! Their dictatorial attitude is just like that of their imaginary god. In their feeble minds, they ARE god.

There has been an offer of support for such an enterprise.  I'm not willing to take up solely, though I would be willing to admin/mod it.

If there is some interest in articles and discussion, then I would be willing to ask for the site and contribute (some) and admin/mod...

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Patrick



Posts: 666
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,19:52   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 23 2012,20:35)
Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 23 2012,19:23)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 23 2012,06:45)
   
Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 23 2012,08:15)
   
Quote (Kattarina98 @ Jan. 23 2012,03:25)
Well, Cornelius provides good fun, too.


Yeah, Cornelius and his little flock of indoctrinated sheep are fun to prod and play with.

Yeah, it's an addiction.  I just don't feel right unless I get a cuss out from Joe in my inbox every morning.

Too bad he's too scared to say how he really feels on the UD board.

Also too bad that they refuse to actually discuss ID there.

You know what we ought to do.  We ought to start an ID board that actually talks about ID, presents coherent arguments, etc.  We could drive visitors from UD to our site.

We'd become the biggest pro-ID site in the world.  

Then, we tell everyone that, after all this time, we haven't actually found any evidence for ID and therefore must abandon it as a hypothesis.


The ultimate in sock puppetry... a whole puppet website.



Your idea of a puppet site is interesting. The hard part would be coming up with coherent arguments for ID.

I've noticed that joe has been dishing out a lot of insulting remarks on UD lately but as you say he's afraid to say what he really feels. It's entertaining to watch him cowardly dodge direct challenges from you and others to actually back up his claims. He always resorts to calling his opponents a coward even though he and the other IDiots are the ones who always run away from substantiating their claims.

The recent challenge from eigenstate to kairosfocus (gordon elliott mullings) that gordo is running away from as fast as he can is especially demonstrative of just how empty ID 'theory' is. gordo's dictatorial tantrums, and threats of disciplinary steps and beatings with "Mr. Leathers", not only show how crazy gordo is but also how bald his assertions are. gordo, joe, and the rest of the IDiots obviously think that just because they say it, everyone else better believe it, and that settles it, or else! Their dictatorial attitude is just like that of their imaginary god. In their feeble minds, they ARE god.

There has been an offer of support for such an enterprise.  I'm not willing to take up solely, though I would be willing to admin/mod it.

If there is some interest in articles and discussion, then I would be willing to ask for the site and contribute (some) and admin/mod...


  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,20:13   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 23 2012,09:45)

You know what we ought to do.  We ought to start an ID board that actually talks about ID, presents coherent arguments, etc.  We could drive visitors from UD to our site.

We'd become the biggest pro-ID site in the world.  

Then, we tell everyone that, after all this time, we haven't actually found any evidence for ID and therefore must abandon it as a hypothesis.

The ultimate in sock puppetry... a whole puppet website.

Been done already!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
eigenstate



Posts: 78
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,20:22   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 23 2012,17:45)
I present to you......

dFSCI!

gpuccio:
   
Quote
I have uploaded my scatterplot of Durston’s data about sequence length and functional complexity at imageshack. Here is the link:


It's a start! :P

Geez, I feel like an idiot -- maybe here's the place to receive my "twenty lashes" for getting suckered by gpuccio in taking this dFSCI nonsense seriously enough to critique it on info theory terms:

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/id-foundations-11-borels-infinite-monkeys-analysis-and-the-significance-of-the-log-reduced

-chi-metric-chi_500-is-500/comment-page-1/#comment-416763]eigenstate is a chump[/URL]

Many years ago I had an acquaintance give me the whole schpiel on homeopathy. I was not familiar with the term, and for a good bit, was keenly interested, as this acquaintance wasn't talking about the formulation of homeopathic medicines, but discussed the "proven results", and how certain medicines had been found to be effective against particular ailments, with the novel insight that "like cures like".

Well, "like cures like" didn't match anything I knew about medicine (which, admittedly, isn't very much), but I kept listening, intently. At length, I got around to asking who made the medicine.

"We do", she said. "Although you don't have to make it yourself, you can buy it premade." Whereupon I learned that the cure for "mercury poisoning" per homeopathy was a 100,000:1 water dilution of mercury.

"You mean, all this is based on... you just..."

*face palm*

I have the exact same feeling now. dFSCI makes homeopathy look grounded by comparison. So gpuccio is the "homeopathic practitioner" of the ID world. That's too bad for him, but really, it's just an embarrassing joke on me to get led down the yellow brick road that far.

I am chump, I'm sorry to report.

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,20:58   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 23 2012,17:55)
It's almost as if dFSCI = sequence length multiplied by the  hocuspocus constant.

It looks like sequence length* ~2.14. One wonders if he forgot the value of pi.

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Patrick



Posts: 666
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,21:01   

Quote (eigenstate @ Jan. 23 2012,21:22)
*face palm*

I have the exact same feeling now. dFSCI makes homeopathy look grounded by comparison. So gpuccio is the "homeopathic practitioner" of the ID world. That's too bad for him, but really, it's just an embarrassing joke on me to get led down the yellow brick road that far.

I am chump, I'm sorry to report.

Nah, he's very good at continuously changing his definitions when you get close to wringing a straight answer out of him.  I wasted a huge amount of time over four threads on Mark Frank's blog as gpuccio's definition of dFSCI mutated from a qualitative metric that could be measured in a specific number of bits to a quantitative "it looks kinda designed" indicator.

gpuccio has repeatedly proven himself to be just as dishonest as kairosfocus, albeit more articulate.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,21:19   

Quote (afarensis @ Jan. 23 2012,20:58)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 23 2012,17:55)
It's almost as if dFSCI = sequence length multiplied by the  hocuspocus constant.

It looks like sequence length* ~2.14. One wonders if he forgot the value of pi.

Maybe he took some technical advice from Joe and counted the number of letters.  And since you have to take an e off pie to make pi it had to be lower.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2012,21:46   

Quote (eigenstate @ Jan. 23 2012,18:22)
 
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 23 2012,17:45)
I present to you......

dFSCI!

gpuccio:
       
Quote
I have uploaded my scatterplot of Durston’s data about sequence length and functional complexity at imageshack. Here is the link:


It's a start! :p

Geez, I feel like an idiot -- maybe here's the place to receive my "twenty lashes" for getting suckered by gpuccio in taking this dFSCI nonsense seriously enough to critique it on info theory terms:

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/id-foundations-11-borels-infinite-monkeys-analysis-and-the-significance-of-the-log-reduced




-chi-metric-chi_500-is-500/comment-page-1/#comment-416763]eigenstate is a chump[/URL]

Many years ago I had an acquaintance give me the whole schpiel on homeopathy. I was not familiar with the term, and for a good bit, was keenly interested, as this acquaintance wasn't talking about the formulation of homeopathic medicines, but discussed the "proven results", and how certain medicines had been found to be effective against particular ailments, with the novel insight that "like cures like".

Well, "like cures like" didn't match anything I knew about medicine (which, admittedly, isn't very much), but I kept listening, intently. At length, I got around to asking who made the medicine.

"We do", she said. "Although you don't have to make it yourself, you can buy it premade." Whereupon I learned that the cure for "mercury poisoning" per homeopathy was a 100,000:1 water dilution of mercury.

"You mean, all this is based on... you just..."

*face palm*

I have the exact same feeling now. dFSCI makes homeopathy look grounded by comparison. So gpuccio is the "homeopathic practitioner" of the ID world. That's too bad for him, but really, it's just an embarrassing joke on me to get led down the yellow brick road that far.

I am chump, I'm sorry to report.


I don't think you should feel like a chump at all. If anything you should feel good about the way you have dissected and exposed the absolute bullshit in the IDiot-babble that is spewed by gpuccio, kairosfocus, etc., and I must say that watching kairosfocus having his childish (and very revealing) meltdowns 'in the teeth' of your demolition of his bald assertions has been thoroughly enjoyable.

I appreciate you putting in the time and effort to take on the IDiots and showing how non-evidential and ridiculous their claims are, and I'm sure that many other people do too.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,03:13   

Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 23 2012,21:46)
I appreciate you putting in the time and effort to take on the IDiots and showing how non-evidential and ridiculous their claims are, and I'm sure that many other people do too.

Seconded. In fact everything that's been written could be (perhaps for this site Ogre speculates about) collected together into a central resource and used as reference instead of going round and round over and over.

Then just as KF repeats stuff over and over the rebuttals (unanswered no doubt) can also just be pasted back in.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,03:47   

Some day when I'm old and retarded, I'm going to become an ID theorist because you don't have to work very hard at it.  A case in point:

From the James Shapiro Responds to Douggy Axe thread:  
Quote
vh: The other problem is that all creatures have these internal capabilities, thus making individuals evolve. Darwinism says only populations evolve.


Ah, but Axe and Gauger aren't going to take that laying down!  
Quote
Axe: I can make this point most clearly with a concrete example. We can go into the lab and modify bacterial cells by deleting the entire set of genes dedicated to the synthesis of tryptophan, one of the essential building blocks of proteins. When we observe what happens when these modified cells are given just enough tryptophan to grow and reproduce, we will see lots of things happening, but none that can be expected to reinvent a set of genes for making tryptophan, even in a large population over billions of years.
You mean you watched that experiment for billions of years?  Or are you bullshitting us?
Axe and Gauger Challenge Shapiro...

F/N A few months ago, Shapiro was Denyse's fair-haired boy and she was highly recommending his "anti-Darwin" book.  How times change.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,03:52   

Oops, got beat to it.  Sorry.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,05:07   

According to Intelligent Design the Future, a new "Peer-Reviewed Paper Argues for an Engineered Universe"
       
Quote
On this episode of ID the Future, Dr. Dominic Halsmer, Dean of the College of Science and Engineering at Oral Roberts University, discusses his 2010 peer-reviewed paper, "The Coherence Of An Engineered World," published in the International Journal of Design & Nature and Ecodynamics. Listen in as Dr. Halsmer explains to Casey Luskin why the universe is bio-friendly and the signs of engineering he sees in Nature.

Hmmm....  Call me suspicious, but when anybody connected with Oral Roberts University publishes a pro-ID screed in a "peer reviewed" anything, I start to wonder.

So, Google "International Journal of Design & Nature and Ecodynamics."  There it is.  "Published by WITPress Journals."

Under "General Information", click on "Wessex Institute of Technology"  Very impressive web page.

Google "Wessex Institute of Technology".  Let's see what Wikipedia says about them.  Oops:
   
Quote
Contributions to its International conference programme have included papers promoting intelligent design creationism from Dominic Hassler, Dean of the College of Science and Engineering at Oral Roberts University ("The Coherence of an Engineered World"),[citation needed] and a joint paper by Scott A. Minnich and Stephen C. Meyer reiterating claims disputing evolution of the bacterial flagellum.[3]

WIT Press is the publishing service of the Wessex Institute of Technology. It publishes conference proceedings and a number of specialized research monographs and edited works. There are, however, doubts about the seriousness of some of these publications, as the case of the VIDEA conference in 1995 documents.[4][5]
   
Quote

3.^ "Claims about evolution of flagella". National Center for Science Education. August 5th, 2008. http://ncse.com/creatio....agella. Retrieved 16 July 2011.
4.^ "The VIDEA case". http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/~wp........a.html.
5.^ Wessex to sue over net 'slur' on conference, Aisling Irwin, Times Higher Education, 7 April 1995


Here's NCSE's entry:      
Quote
Additionally, the other thirty proteins in the flagellar motor (that are not present in the TTSS) are unique to the motor and are not found in any other living system. From whence, then, were these protein parts co-opted?
Minnich (2005) expert report, March 31, 2005 / Scott A. Minnich & Stephen C. Meyer (2004). "Genetic Analysis of Coordinate Flagellar and Type III Regulatory Circuits in Pathogenic Bacteria." Second International Conference on Design & Nature, Rhodes Greece. Wessex Institute of Technology, September 1, 2004.


But the VIDEA entry is even better: http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/~wp........ea.html which leads to http://www.cg.tuwien.ac.at/~wp........er.html      
Quote
WARNING: Beware of VIDEA!
Werner Purgathofer, Eduard Groeller, Martin Feda,
TU Wien / Austria.

Abstract
This paper illustrates that there are conferences which will destroy confidence in scientific life if the community does not forbid them. The Wessex Institute of Technology (UK) [1] organizes a whole series of regular conferences on various topics [2]. Our experiences are only with one of these, "VIDEA", but one should probably also be careful with the others. It is an offense against honorable scientists to offer false publication possibilities under a scientifically serious disguise for high fees. Our conclusion is: VIDEA accepts EVERYTHING! And we conclude from that that a publication in the VIDEA proceedings is worth NOTHING AT ALL! And to organize such a conference is simply a fraud. Conferences like VIDEA are a morally dispisable scheme to allow people to buy themselves publications without having to undergo any type of reviewing. It simply increases the flow of worthless data and makes it more difficult for scientists to extract really useful information
     
Quote
When two of the authors were asked to become members of the program committee for VIDEA'95 (to take place in La Coruna, Spain), we planned to test if any reviews take place at all. We would send them four abstracts that are obviously plain nonsense, that no excuse for accepting them could be taken seriously. This paper reports about this activity.

The submitted abstracts
We decided to write more than one crazy abstract to make sure that an acceptance cannot be interpreted as accident and so we tried different types of weird papers proposals. The first of four abstracts we produced was simply a completely irrelevant topic, namely how to create footprints on the walls of public rooms. It includes several statements that every reviewer must recognize as joke. The complete text is given in abstract 1.
The second abstract describes a correct method which makes no sense at all, that is how to render interior rooms without light. Obviously, the resulting image will be completely black. This was written as in abstract 2.

These first two productions have at least a little bit the structure of a scientific paper abstract. What we also wanted to try was, if VIDEA would accept its own text as abstract. So we copied the complete introduction from the "Call for Papers" and gave this abstract the title of the conference. Minor changes were only made like changing the word "conference" to "paper". The result is given in abstract 3.

Last but not least we decided to produce an abstract without any content, just complete nonsense. So we took a dictionary of information processing words and selected randomly some 40 phrases from there and joined them together to a fantastically technical sounding text. The given reference is, of course, the utilized dictionary! We had much fun with abstract 4.
     
Quote
Results
All abstracts were sent to the conference in November 1994 and on January 14th, 1995 we received the results. All four abstract have been "reviewed and provisionally accepted"! This means, that the VIDEA conference organizers [3] claim someone has reviewed these abstracts and has found them suitable for the conference! As members of the program committee two of us had nothing to do with reviewing.
The acceptance letter also contains information from which can be concluded that final papers will only be printed in the proceedings if the registration fee is paid together with the final paper.
No word on how that lawsuit turned out.

F/N  Dembski and Marks have been publishing in "peer reviewed" IEEE papers.  Google "ieee fake journal" (without the quotes) sometime.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,06:38   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 23 2012,17:45)
I present to you......

dFSCI!

gpuccio:
Quote
I have uploaded my scatterplot of Durston’s data about sequence length and functional complexity at imageshack. Here is the link:


It's a start! :P

Gpuccio:
Quote
The “simple linear equeztion” you speak of is the regression. The regression explains much of the variance (about 80% of it). That means that about 80% of the variance in dFSCI depends on sequence length. But there is a residual 20% variance that dependes on some other thing: the most reasonable hypothesis is that it depends on the specific structure function relationship in that protein family.

So, Durston’s data are very useful, not only to support the ID theory, but also as a tool to investigate the strucutre function relationship for different protein functions, and in general the protein functional space.


Hmmm.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,06:38   

Nature & Ecodynamics? That sure sounds familiar.

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If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
George



Posts: 316
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,07:08   

I used to get all sorts of conference advertising spam from Wessex IT before I blacklisted their email domain.  Noodling on their website, they appear to have a thriving conference farm and several dodgy journals.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,07:18   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 24 2012,03:47)
Some day when I'm old and retarded, I'm going to become an ID theorist because you don't have to work very hard at it.  A case in point:

From the James Shapiro Responds to Douggy Axe thread:  
Quote
vh: The other problem is that all creatures have these internal capabilities, thus making individuals evolve. Darwinism says only populations evolve.


Ah, but Axe and Gauger aren't going to take that laying down!  
Quote
Axe: I can make this point most clearly with a concrete example. We can go into the lab and modify bacterial cells by deleting the entire set of genes dedicated to the synthesis of tryptophan, one of the essential building blocks of proteins. When we observe what happens when these modified cells are given just enough tryptophan to grow and reproduce, we will see lots of things happening, but none that can be expected to reinvent a set of genes for making tryptophan, even in a large population over billions of years.
You mean you watched that experiment for billions of years?  Or are you bullshitting us?
Axe and Gauger Challenge Shapiro...

F/N A few months ago, Shapiro was Denyse's fair-haired boy and she was highly recommending his "anti-Darwin" book.  How times change.

So Axe looks at it for 35 seconds and declares it can't happen.

Lenski observes it for 25 years and notices that it does happen.

Me thinks Axe doesn't know how to do science.

P.S. Names for this new Website?  "ID Done Right" ?

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,07:48   

Is anyone else having trouble loading UD?

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,07:52   

Somebody's picking up bad habits from the IDC crowd.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
eigenstate



Posts: 78
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,08:25   

Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 23 2012,21:46)
I don't think you should feel like a chump at all. If anything you should feel good about the way you have dissected and exposed the absolute bullshit in the IDiot-babble that is spewed by gpuccio, kairosfocus, etc., and I must say that watching kairosfocus having his childish (and very revealing) meltdowns 'in the teeth' of your demolition of his bald assertions has been thoroughly enjoyable.

I appreciate you putting in the time and effort to take on the IDiots and showing how non-evidential and ridiculous their claims are, and I'm sure that many other people do too.

Thanks for the positive feedback. I don't mind taking time to take up an issue like that, it's just that I really should have figured out there's no there, there, far earlier than I did.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,13:20   

Welcome, eigenstate!
Thanks for making me think and learn over at UD.

You do realise that the administrators of UD patrol our forum and check for familiar names, earmarking them for blocking?

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2012,13:31   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 23 2012,20:13)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 23 2012,09:45)

You know what we ought to do.  We ought to start an ID board that actually talks about ID, presents coherent arguments, etc.  We could drive visitors from UD to our site.

We'd become the biggest pro-ID site in the world.  

Then, we tell everyone that, after all this time, we haven't actually found any evidence for ID and therefore must abandon it as a hypothesis.

The ultimate in sock puppetry... a whole puppet website.

Been done already!

This site was sooo wrong! In the banner, you need to put a crucifix, blending smartly over into something sciencey.

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
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