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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 5

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Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,17:12    Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2016,16:52) Clownfish got some teeth :p Check out zeroseven. My hat's off to him/her/it.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,17:14    Quote 367 clown fishMay 30, 2016 at 4:08 pm KairosFocus: “The price tag for clinging to subjectivism, radical root level[ relativism and linked extreme nominalism…” If you are going to characterize everything anyone says who disagrees with you as “radical” and “extreme”, why should we put in any effort to explain our views? Please grow up and discuss issues as mature adults do. “as a quick note, difference of views in a world in which error exists is irrelevant to objectivity of moral truths, e.g. principles of justice.” I agree. When the errors are on the order of five or ten percent, you have a point. But when the errors range from human sacrifice is morally acceptable to human sacrifice is morally unacceptable (multiplied by thousands of similar examples), we are not talking about experimental or observational error. We are talking about fundamental differences in fundamental moral values. Where is the objectivity in this? linky

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,17:26    Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2016,16:52) Clownfish got some teeth :p Teeth that "naturally" change from male to female part way through their lives. That must really piss off Mullings.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,17:40    I didn't know that clown fish were sequential hermaphrodites til you said that. It's guaranteed that Kairosdoofus isn't getting that.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,17:52    Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2016,17:40) I didn't know that clown fish were sequential hermaphrodites til you said that. It's guaranteed that Kairosdoofus isn't getting that. You think?

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,17:54    Hopefully he'll be made aware of it eventually.

Jkrebs Posts: 590 Joined: Sep. 2004 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,18:45    Hey, ask StephenB about war: is that murder? We got into it about this one time, and of course he did the same thing: there are "just" wars, and he offered some various subjective ways to defend his view that he knew how to tell which was which, and I didn't. So, more generally, he says "Thou Shalt Not Murder" is absolute, but then he weasels out of that by adding this subjective criteria about what constitutes murder, and what doesn't.

Jkrebs Posts: 590 Joined: Sep. 2004 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,20:44    Clown fish writes, Quote Vividbleu: “Is that an absolute “may be” ? “ Of course. Have I not always admitted that I may be wrong? Unlike a certain person named Mullings that we both know? Anybody who doesn’t admit that they may be wrong is an absolute moron. Oops: kf isn't going to like his name being mentioned, or being called a moron.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,20:48    Quote (Jkrebs @ May 30 2016,20:44) Clown fish writes, Quote Vividbleu: “Is that an absolute “may be” ? “ Of course. Have I not always admitted that I may be wrong? Unlike a certain person named Mullings that we both know? Anybody who doesn’t admit that they may be wrong is an absolute moron. Oops: kf isn't going to like his name being mentioned, or being called a moron. But he didn't say that KF was Mullings. Who would ever make that link?:)

Jkrebs Posts: 590 Joined: Sep. 2004 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,22:39    I just read that Ben Carson said today, "America right now is like a cruise ship that is about to go off of Niagara Falls with tremendous carnage and death.” Perhaps he and kf ought to compare apocalyptic metaphors: a waterfall is really better than a slippery slope for conveying the sense of immediate and irrevocable doom that kf sees coming.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 30 2016,23:35    Quote (Jkrebs @ May 30 2016,22:39) I just read that Ben Carson said today, "America right now is like a cruise ship that is about to go off of Niagara Falls with tremendous carnage and death.” Perhaps he and kf ought to compare apocalyptic metaphors: a waterfall is really better than a slippery slope for conveying the sense of immediate and irrevocable doom that kf sees coming. Well, he is American so he must be talking about the American part of Niagara Falls. They are pretty lame. Everybody knows that the Canadian Horseshoe falls are the majestic part of Niagara Falls.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,09:01    Quote clown fishMay 31, 2016 at 7:55 am Kairosfocus: “First, self-evident truth is not a logical trap, nor is it stupid.”[/] In the way you are using the term, yes it is. “[i]Let us list MSETs 1 – 3 again, as a reminder of what you are lashing out at:” I have already addressed these in detail. I have no desire to keep repeating myself. Too bad that you don’t have that same desire. “I suggest there is nothing in that that should so trigger hostility and lashing out.” Who is being hostile and lashing out? I am simply disagreeing with you. “The reaction is disproportionate, and suggests much more is at work than mere differences of opinion.” I agree that your reaction is disproportionate, and suggests that much more is at work than mere differences of opinion. I recommend that you adopt a tone similar to Vividbleu’s or Zeroseven’s. They are capable of disagreeing without patronizing, sermonizing and tossing ad hominems. “As for oh you can live with sliding ever faster down moral slippery slopes, the problem is the hard landing at rock bottom as nihilism and ruthless factionalism working through agit prop and lawfare utterly take over.” Have you ever heard of Chicken Little and The Boy Who Cried Wolf? “As is patently in progress across or civilisation.” Putting the word “patently” in front of your assertion does not make it any more true.Unfortunately, the evidence does not support your dooms-day scenario.. “With a long and painful history paid for in blood and tears that we neglect at peril.” Repeat after me. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. “I suggest that it is time to think again.” Yes, it might do you some good. “[i]PPS: Lessons of history, most recently administered over the past 100 years with over 100 million victims, and many hundreds of millions more as a result of the ongoing global abortion holocaust:[/]” You need to learn a lot about how to present a convincing argument to change a person’s mind about abortion. Accusing pro-choice advocates of contributing to a holocaust will not win over any converts. If anything, your insulting hyperbole will just drive them deeper into their convictions. Since I am pro-choice, I certainly hope that you continue in this tone. And Mullings only used2,868 words to voice his opinion. The man is improving.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,09:26    Quote (Jkrebs @ May 30 2016,21:39) I just read that Ben Carson said today, "America right now is like a cruise ship that is about to go off of Niagara Falls with tremendous carnage and death.” So he's saying that the honeymoon is over? And, any subsequent event is after the Fall(s)?

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,10:06    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 30 2016,15:12) Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2016,16:52) Clownfish got some teeth :p Check out zeroseven. My hat's off to him/her/it. Maybe we should adopt the safe "them". -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,10:23    Quote (fnxtr @ May 31 2016,10:06) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 30 2016,15:12) Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2016,16:52) Clownfish got some teeth :p Check out zeroseven. My hat's off to him/her/it. Maybe we should adopt the safe "them". Maybe zeroseven is a serial hermaphrodite like Clown Fish.

KevinB Posts: 525 Joined: April 2013 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,11:13    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 31 2016,10:23)   Quote (fnxtr @ May 31 2016,10:06)   Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 30 2016,15:12)     Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2016,16:52) Clownfish got some teeth :p Check out zeroseven. My hat's off to him/her/it. Maybe we should adopt the safe "them". Maybe zeroseven is a serial hermaphrodite like Clown Fish. The choice of screen name puts me in mind of a Borg collective. :)

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,14:01    There Reverend Mullingds is back on his pulpit. Quote kairosfocusMay 31, 2016 at 11:33 am CF, at this stage, with all due respects it seems you are simply using words in ways you hope will be rhetorically manipulative or will give signals to those of your ilk as to dismissive talking points. On the substance at work, it is quite clear that the matter has long since been decided against your cause. Evolutionary materialistic scientism is both incoherent and amoral, something fellow travellers try to get along with. Thus, it tries to reduce morality to relativism, subjectivism and nominalism in a context of might and manipulation making right. Meanwhile trying to dodge the glaring fact of individuality which it reduces to illusion. For, neuronal chemistry or the like cannot account for responsible, rational freedom, at best it might get to some sort of zombie running programs that are rooted in blind chance and/or mechanical necessity. A civilisation like that dominated by such notions will then be wide open for ruthless, nihilistic manipulators. And the evidence of trends, common sense and history alike is such is headed for a fast slide down a slippery slope of irresponsibility, irrationality and mob behaviour, until it has a very hard collision with rock bottom reality. That south wind you think is favourable to get you to the hoped for secularist utopia is actually the warning sign of a wicked, typhoon force nor’easter. This civilisational voyage will not end well, on current track. And, those who dismissed Cassandra in legend, or Jeremiah and Paul in real life (The latter had survived three shipwrecks by mid Oct 59 AD at Fair Havens, Crete), were the ones on the wrong side of history. Never mind what they imagined at the time. As for me, I have the specific advantage of having seen this sort of pattern play out twice already. KF Who would have thought that talking about abortion would set him off?

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,14:03    OK. Slap me upside the head. I pasted the wrong comment in my previous post. This is the one where Mullings preaches to the fallen. Quote kairosfocusMay 31, 2016 at 11:48 am CF, specifically on the ongoing 50 millions per year global, 60 millions cumulative in 40-odd years in the USA, slaughter of the most innocent with connivance of law, that speaks for itself; just multiply by 40 years, even if you divide by 2 to account for growth. The worst holocaust in history, bar none. And it speaks for our civilisation with the most decisive terms possible. This is a dark age, an evil and corrupt generation, save yourselves as a remnant snatched from the burning. And if you have personally been implicated in bloodguilt in this matter, or have enabled it at some level, down to voting for those who have put this into practice under false colours of law, repent and seek forgiveness. Where also, we must realise that bloodguilt is the most corrupting force in the world, hardening the heart to the cry of the very first right of all, life. If you do not feel pangs of guilt over being implicated, that is a very bad sign, ask God for the mercy of guilt and the gift of repentance. And, in so doing, understand that Almighty God is now the number one security threat facing our blood-stained, brazen civilisation. Have enough sense to repent and throw one’s soul on him, for there is at least a rumour that he is merciful. KF

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,14:27    A: All science so far. 2: Yep, if there's one thing Gordon Mullings of Manjack(ing off in his mom's basement) Heights, Monserrat knows about, it's wind. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

NoName Posts: 2729 Joined: Mar. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,14:34    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 31 2016,15:03) OK. Slap me upside the head. I pasted the wrong comment in my previous post. This is the one where Mullings preaches to the fallen. Quote kairosfocusMay 31, 2016 at 11:48 am CF, specifically on the ongoing 50 millions per year global, 60 millions cumulative in 40-odd years in the USA, slaughter of the most innocent with connivance of law, that speaks for itself; just multiply by 40 years, even if you divide by 2 to account for growth. The worst holocaust in history, bar none. And it speaks for our civilisation with the most decisive terms possible. This is a dark age, an evil and corrupt generation, save yourselves as a remnant snatched from the burning. And if you have personally been implicated in bloodguilt in this matter, or have enabled it at some level, down to voting for those who have put this into practice under false colours of law, repent and seek forgiveness. Where also, we must realise that bloodguilt is the most corrupting force in the world, hardening the heart to the cry of the very first right of all, life. If you do not feel pangs of guilt over being implicated, that is a very bad sign, ask God for the mercy of guilt and the gift of repentance. And, in so doing, understand that Almighty God is now the number one security threat facing our blood-stained, brazen civilisation. Have enough sense to repent and throw one’s soul on him, for there is at least a rumour that he is merciful. KF Or in fewer words -- this is a terrorist we can't defeat, he's the biggest enemy we face, so surrender to him and then he won't hurt us. Contemptible. Objectively so, GEM, objectively so.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,14:37    Quote (fnxtr @ May 31 2016,11:06) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 30 2016,15:12) Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2016,16:52) Clownfish got some teeth :p Check out zeroseven. My hat's off to him/her/it. Maybe we should adopt the safe "them". I have started using the singular them. It works well.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,14:38    Quote And the evidence of trends, common sense and history alike is such is headed for a fast slide down a slippery slope of irresponsibility, irrationality and mob behaviour, until it has a very hard collision with rock bottom reality. That south wind you think is favourable to get you to the hoped for secularist utopia is actually the warning sign of a wicked, typhoon force nor’easter. This civilisational voyage will not end well, on current track. I've seen better sentences at the Bulwer-Lytton Contest.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,14:43    Quote And, in so doing, understand that Almighty God is now the number one security threat facing our blood-stained, brazen civilisation. Have enough sense to repent and throw one’s soul on him, for there is at least a rumour that he is merciful. Jonathan Edwards called, he said Bro, take it down a notch.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,16:28    Quote 413 zerosevenMay 31, 2016 at 3:11 pm Vivid @398: I guess so. But I’m actually not convinced its as clear as that. Maybe some morals are subjective and some are objective. Maybe they should be looked at in some whole different way rather than as objective or subjective. And we haven’t even defined the terms “objective” and “subjective” which can mean different things in different contexts. Not trying to be difficult, but I just don’t see it as so black and white. StephenB: If you really thought your society was slicing up and scalding babies by the millions every year you would not be living there. Or if you were, it would only be as a freedom fighter to overturn the evil mass murderers. You sure as hell would be doing more than posting comments on a rather obscure blog. Stephen B calls himself a moral coward, just not in those words.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,16:38    Quote 410 clown fishMay 31, 2016 at 12:58 pm Kairosfocus: “This is a dark age, an evil and corrupt generation, save yourselves as a remnant snatched from the burning.” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “And if you have personally been implicated in bloodguilt in this matter, or have enabled it at some level, down to voting for those who have put this into practice under false colours of law, repent and seek forgiveness. “ Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “If you do not feel pangs of guilt over being implicated, that is a very bad sign, ask God for the mercy of guilt and the gift of repentance.”” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “And, in so doing, understand that Almighty God is now the number one security threat facing our blood-stained, brazen civilisation.” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “Have enough sense to repent and throw one’s soul on him, for there is at least a rumour that he is merciful.” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. Didn’t I already correct you on your patronizing and sermonizing? If you want to discuss the substantive issues, I am willing. If I want to be preached to, I will go to church. linky

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,17:02    Quote (stevestory @ May 31 2016,16:38) Quote 410 clown fishMay 31, 2016 at 12:58 pm Kairosfocus: “This is a dark age, an evil and corrupt generation, save yourselves as a remnant snatched from the burning.” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “And if you have personally been implicated in bloodguilt in this matter, or have enabled it at some level, down to voting for those who have put this into practice under false colours of law, repent and seek forgiveness. “ Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “If you do not feel pangs of guilt over being implicated, that is a very bad sign, ask God for the mercy of guilt and the gift of repentance.”” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “And, in so doing, understand that Almighty God is now the number one security threat facing our blood-stained, brazen civilisation.” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. “Have enough sense to repent and throw one’s soul on him, for there is at least a rumour that he is merciful.” Save your sermon for your fellow travellers. Didn’t I already correct you on your patronizing and sermonizing? If you want to discuss the substantive issues, I am willing. If I want to be preached to, I will go to church. linky I see your Clown Fish and raise you another Clown Fish. Quote clown fishMay 31, 2016 at 3:59 pm Kairosfocus: “CF, you confirmed the concerns and just what sort of generation we have become; along the way exposing that your reasoning on matters of morality is very likely to be questionable.” As far as I’m concerned, civilization has been improving morally for decades. With the exception of a radical religious fringe, we no longer treat homosexuals as deviant perverted sinners. We allow inter-racial marriage. We are legalizing Doctor assisted suicide for the dying. We are removing the defence of religious freedom for discrimination. We are teaching children the facts, including the risks, about sex, sexual orientation and tolerance of differences. We provide free health care to all citizens, regardless of income. Frankly, I am glad that the type of prurient, judgemental morality that you worship is dying out.

KevinB Posts: 525 Joined: April 2013 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2016,17:26    Quote (Jkrebs @ May 30 2016,20:44) Clown fish writes, Quote Vividbleu: “Is that an absolute “may be” ? “ Of course. Have I not always admitted that I may be wrong? Unlike a certain person named Mullings that we both know? Anybody who doesn’t admit that they may be wrong is an absolute moron. Oops: kf isn't going to like his name being mentioned, or being called a moron. I though he liked self-evident truths.

Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 01 2016,00:45    I see StephenB has finally - after several false starts - managed to turn the theme on the Subjectivists Need to Check Their Moral Privilege thread to abortion, and lately, the evils of contraception. It's giving him the opportunity to show the kinder, more tolerant face of UD. Edited by Ptaylor on June 01 2016,21:43 -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: June 01 2016,08:46    Quote (Ptaylor @ June 01 2016,00:45) I see StephenB has finally - after several false starts - managed to turn the theme on the Subjectivists Need to Check Their Moral Privilege thread to abortion, and lately, the evils of contraception. It's giving him the opportunity to show the kinder, more tolerant face of UD. And here is what passes for fact in StephenB's little mind: Quote Among those who use artificial birth control, the divorce rate is 50%. Among those who use natural family planning, it is 2%.

KevinB Posts: 525 Joined: April 2013 (Permalink) Posted: June 01 2016,09:04    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 01 2016,08:46)   Quote (Ptaylor @ June 01 2016,00:45) I see StephenB has finally - after several false starts - managed to turn the theme on the Subjectivists Need to Check Their Moral Privilege thread to abortion, and lately, the evils of contraception. It's giving him the opportunity to show the kinder, more tolerant face of UD. And here is what passes for fact in StephenB's little mind:   Quote Among those who use artificial birth control, the divorce rate is 50%. Among those who use natural family planning, it is 2%. You are making the unwarranted assumption that "those" refers to "married couples". What percentage of unmarried teenage mothers were using natural birth control methods?

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