Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::The Bathroom Wall

Posted: July 26 2007,07:06

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,06:45)

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,06:14)

It certainly lays to rest the notion that atheists have a problem with killing!

I'm not an atheist, you twit. (shrug)

No, but Marx was. Er, uh, thats who were we discussing.

IanBrown_101

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: July 26 2007,07:09

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,07:06)

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,06:45)

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,06:14)

It certainly lays to rest the notion that atheists have a problem with killing!

I'm not an atheist, you twit. (shrug)

No, but Marx was. Er, uh, thats who were we discussing.

So, what exactly is wrong with athesits?

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

Blair

Posts: 13
Joined: July 2007

Posted: July 26 2007,07:10

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ July 26 2007,07:01)

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,06:01)

Oh, I see, he altered it rather than misinterpreted it.

So we must stick to the ORIGINAL text, and avoid FALSE PROHETS who "add to or take away from" the text!

Yes, yes...that makes sense. Otherwise one could get the impression that Marx was some kind of hack concocting pseudo scientific "laws" of history.

Wouldn't want that!

I'm not saying he was a prophet either, I'm just saying that Marx wasn't a socialist, and even more distinctly, Lenin wasn't a Marxist.....

I don't know what you're trying to say, I was just clearing up where you had made a clearly false statement which you had based your argument on.

Is it just me who thinks this stuff should ALL get moved to the bathroom wall?

You mean Lenin was not a TRUE Marxist?

So who says you understand Marx better than Lenin?

Why is YOUR interpretation better?

Blair

Posts: 13
Joined: July 2007

Posted: July 26 2007,07:14

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,06:48)

By the way, Blair, I care what you think about me.

No, really, I do.

(yawn)

You sure do!

Or you wouldn't be masking your rage with sarcasm and little swipes!

Come on Lenny, don't hold back!

Bring it on!!! Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

Posted: July 26 2007,07:27

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ July 26 2007,07:09)

So, what exactly is wrong with athesits?

Dude, you're arguing with a halfwit.

Don't bother.

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Posted: July 26 2007,07:29

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,07:14)

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,06:48)

By the way, Blair, I care what you think about me.

No, really, I do.

(yawn)

You sure do!

Or you wouldn't be masking your rage with sarcasm and little swipes!

Come on Lenny, don't hold back!

Bring it on!!! Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!

Dude, THAT is the best you can do . . . ?

Seriously?

THAT is all you've got?

Pfffft. You're just a pit yorkie. Yap, yap, yap. You're not even worth the effort it would take to dropkick you across the room.

So let go of my ankle, and just run along, dearie.

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IanBrown_101

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: July 26 2007,07:30

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,07:27)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ July 26 2007,07:09)

So, what exactly is wrong with athesits?

Dude, you're arguing with a halfwit.

Don't bother.

True, but what the hell, it's amusing for now.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

IanBrown_101

Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

Posted: July 26 2007,07:34

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,07:10)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ July 26 2007,07:01)

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,06:01)

Oh, I see, he altered it rather than misinterpreted it.

So we must stick to the ORIGINAL text, and avoid FALSE PROHETS who "add to or take away from" the text!

Yes, yes...that makes sense. Otherwise one could get the impression that Marx was some kind of hack concocting pseudo scientific "laws" of history.

Wouldn't want that!

I'm not saying he was a prophet either, I'm just saying that Marx wasn't a socialist, and even more distinctly, Lenin wasn't a Marxist.....

I don't know what you're trying to say, I was just clearing up where you had made a clearly false statement which you had based your argument on.

Is it just me who thinks this stuff should ALL get moved to the bathroom wall?

You mean Lenin was not a TRUE Marxist?

So who says you understand Marx better than Lenin?

Why is YOUR interpretation better?

This is a ridiculous argument. It is the equivalent of insisting that the protestants are still catholics. They altered the catholic religion into something vastly, but not totally, different and even put a new name on it. There was a distict split between the two factions (and if you think there was no split in Russia over Lenin's alterations to Marx then you're ignorant) and therefore Lenin could not be a true Marxist, because he was no longer working from Marx.

Good show, shift this too.

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I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

guthrie

Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: July 26 2007,09:28

The first major change Lenin made to Marxism was to abandon the idea of th eproletariat itself leading things on, and instead posit a vanguard who had the job of leading and cajoling the proletariat into the bright new future. When I first read about this crucial difference I was amazed.

The fact that Lenin also spent a fair bit of time exterminating Marxists, anarchists and anyone else who disagreed with him also tends to pass people by.

Erasmus, FCD

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Posted: July 26 2007,09:49

Lenny i've been meaning to read some books about marx and, for lack of a better word that i can't remember, millennial eschatologies. i think it was referenced in Mircea Eliade 'Myth and Reality' and probably others under 'eternal return'.

never thought about that before but it somehow made sense to me, that there are some similarities between the ultimate proletariat revolution and the return of jesus or what have ya. was wondering if you had ever come across that stuff and if so what you thought about it.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Arden Chatfield

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Posted: July 26 2007,10:06

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,07:06)

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,06:45)

Quote (Blair @ July 26 2007,06:14)

It certainly lays to rest the notion that atheists have a problem with killing!

I'm not an atheist, you twit. (shrug)

No, but Marx was. Er, uh, thats who were we discussing.

Hey Blair, are you Legion/Emanuel Goldstein/Clarissa? You're certainly enough of an asshole to be him.

[EDIT: Yep, we were right and now he's banned. Never mind!]

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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Posted: July 26 2007,14:31

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,06:27)

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ July 26 2007,07:09)

So, what exactly is wrong with athesits?

Dude, you're arguing with a halfwit.

Don't bother.

Oh, he's been all over the place with this latest moniker and this old complaint. Never stays long enough to address the answers, just keeps changing tennis courts instead of practicing not to hit 'em into the net.

I'll tell you who has been hanging out at the gym - moi. And I'll tell you who has not - bloi (Blair). I just made that pronoun up right now.

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Posted: July 26 2007,17:27

Like a bad penny.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

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"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

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Posted: July 26 2007,18:44

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ July 26 2007,09:49)

never thought about that before but it somehow made sense to me, that there are some similarities between the ultimate proletariat revolution and the return of jesus or what have ya. was wondering if you had ever come across that stuff and if so what you thought about it.

It's crap.

It's all part of that whole "marxism is a religion" baloney. And they treat Marxism as if it were just an ideology or a political program based on some pie-in-the-sky Holy Writ. It's not. Marxism is a way of looking at human social constructs and how they change. It's just as applicable to feudalism as it is to capitalism. Indeed, the vast majority of Marx's writings don't say a single word about socialism or what it would look like, and the ones that do are very vague and generalized. Nearly everything that Marx wrote, was an analysis of *capitalism*, how it works, and why it historically works that way.

But . . . .

I have over the years noted that there are several distinct similarities between marxism as a way of looking at the world (and it is that, more than being an "ideology"), and the Asian traditions like Buddhism and Taoism.

Both base most of their analysis on the unity of opposites and the interplay of all things.

Both view ideological and theological "truths" as mere abstractions from existing social conditions, that cannot be given an independent existence. At the same time, both recognize that what we THINK about the world is a PART of that world, and that our thoughts and ideas help produce that world, and can help alter it. Human history and reality is therefore neither matter nor idea, but the interplay of both.

Both depend heavily on direct observation of existing reality, rather than on scholarly debate over abstract ideas or intellectual philosophical postulates which are disconnected from reality. (One of my favorite aphorisms from marx is "Philosophy and the study of the actual world have the same relationship to one another as mastrubation and esexual intercourse".)

Both conclude that everything we see around us is historical, that everything is both in a state of being what it is and at the same time of becoming something else, and that the current state of any thing cannot be separated from its history.

Both conclude that reality is neither the product of chance, nor of law, but of the interplay of both.

Both conclude that there is no way to "objectively" study the world, since we ourselves are a part of that world and our viewpoints cannot be removed from it -- we cannot study the world as if we were not a part of it, because we ARE a part of it, and we help make it what it is.

Both conclude that ideas, morals, ethics and ideological systems cannot be separated from the material conditions which produce them -- there are no universally-true ideas, morals, ethics or ideologies. What is "right" here and now may be "wrong" there and then. Ideologies of all sorts are the products of underlying social conditions, and at the same time they help construct and propogate those social conditions.

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Posted: July 26 2007,18:59

Quote (guthrie @ July 26 2007,09:28)

The first major change Lenin made to Marxism was to abandon the idea of th eproletariat itself leading things on, and instead posit a vanguard who had the job of leading and cajoling the proletariat into the bright new future. When I first read about this crucial difference I was amazed.

It's more basic than that --- Lenin was indeed a quite good economic analyst, and his explanations of the economics of imperialism can still be usefully read today, and still apply. He was, though, forced into his entire RUSSIAN ideological program because of the social and economic realities in the Russia of the time.

Socialism (or communism, or economic democracy, or whatever the heck else one wants to call it) is absolutely dependent upon two things (both in order to introduce socialism, and in order to maintain it):

1. a high level of political democracy
2. a high level of economic productivity

Russia in 1917 had neither of these. Nor did China in 1949, Cuba in 1959, or Vietnam in 1972.

That simple fact leads directly to everything else in the Leninist program.

Where there is no political democracy, there is no way for any large democratic organized mass of people to fight for political power. It can ONLY be done by a small, secret, conspiratorial underground party that can avoid the police. Hence, Lenin's "vanguard party".

Where there is no high level of economic productivity, there is simply no wealth to BE "socialized" (not to mention no organized industrial working class). Hence, the only task that CAN be undertaken by any successful Leninist revolution is to BUILD a high level of economic productivity (by industrializing the country). Hence, the Leninist program of nationalization and planned economic growth, and its forced reliance on the peasantry instead of the industrial working class.

The Leninist system is "state capitalistic" --- it takes what economic investment it can get (or, more usually, that it can forcibly coerce) from the agrarian sector, invests this into productive capacity, and siphons off most of the wealth that is thus created, for itself.

That is not the RESULT of Lenin's ideology --- it is the CAUSE of it.

If you're up for it, I've written a Marxist history of the Soviet Union, here:

http://www.geocities.com/lflank/counter.html

which explains all of this in great detail.

Leninism didn't collapse because it didn't work -- it collapsed because it DID work. In the USSR, Leninism/Stalinism did what it set out to do -- it industrialized the country and removed it from foreign economic domination. Once that task was done, Leninist state capitalism no longer had any useful purpose. And like any other social system with no useful purpose, it collapsed from within.

I, for one, don't miss it. (shrug)

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Posted: July 26 2007,19:05

Quote (guthrie @ July 26 2007,09:28)

The fact that Lenin also spent a fair bit of time exterminating Marxists, anarchists and anyone else who disagreed with him also tends to pass people by.

Indeed, the primary victims of Lenin/Stalin/Mao/Castro/Ho's repression, were other leftists. Just within the early Soviet Union, there were council communists, Workers Oppositionists, the Makhnovschina, and the Kronstadt Rebellion -- all of which were shot by the Leninists.

If you're up for a critique of Leninism, and a sketch of the non-Leninist Marxist alternative, I point you to:

http://www.geocities.com/lflank/nonlenin.html

It's written specifically for Leftists (indeed, it's aimed mostly at disaffected Leninists), so you probably won't be familiar with some of what it discusses, but it should still be clear enough to get the basic idea.

Most Americans, of course, don't even know that there ever WAS any such thing as a non-Leninist Marxism . . .

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Posted: July 26 2007,19:51

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 26 2007,18:44)

Both conclude that everything we see around us is historical, that everything is both in a state of being what it is and at the same time of becoming something else, and that the current state of any thing cannot be separated from its history.

And this, by the way, is why, I think, so many prominent biologists have been Marxists (historical contingency, of course, being one of Stephen Gould's favorite themes in his writings about evolution and science.)

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JohnW

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Posted: July 27 2007,17:53

In case anyone else is going through a severe bout of Friday afternoon, there's some Grade A woowoo going down here, starting with Brenda Tucker's comment #195576 about half way down. Enjoy!

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... Â The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

k.e

Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

Posted: July 29 2007,08:55

Quote (Louis @ July 26 2007,10:45)

Quote (k.e @ July 26 2007,04:58)

There's nothing better, standing in a Aussie pub with a cold Guiness or two and watching 'The Blacks' (insert outrageous hyperbolic sporting simile here) the 'Wallabies'.

Oh there is.

Watching the final of the world cup when a young chap from England kicked a drop goal in the dying seconds of extra time to win the tournament and then collecting £200 off your arrogant Aussie mate who bet against England.

Sadly I don't think this will be happeneing again this year!

Oh and J-Dog, we are lucky with international rugby, but getting somestic games on TV here requires satellite or cable and then you don't even get all the games even for the big teams. Anything out of the top league of rugby....forget it!

You can however watch Accrington Stanley play Poole Town FC at kiss chase (or soccer as some people call it) on sixteen different channels for free day or night.

Oh and just to delineate the differene between soccer and rugby a little further: during the recent floods we've had in the UK (Steve have you been affected? We've escaped) two members of the England Rugby team were stranded returning to the Midlands. Ben Kay and former England captain Martin Corry helped locals where they were stranded by carrying old people to safety through the flood waters, helping build barricades and then slept in their car. Had it been one of those over paid ponces that plays footballs they would have whined until they were airlifted to the nearest hairdressing salon and carefully coiffured. Wankers to a man!

Not that I'm at all biased.

Louis

Just one word **** and it's not printable.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

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Posted: July 29 2007,22:51

Quote (JohnW @ July 27 2007,16:53)

In case anyone else is going through a severe bout of Friday afternoon, there's some Grade A woowoo going down here, starting with Brenda Tucker's comment #195576 about half way down. Enjoy!

Whoa, JohnW, you've struck gold. From Brenda's website:

Quote

Spiritual people have been burned by not getting the facts from their reading. Look at what happened to the Heaven's Gate family. It was all a misunderstanding! Are you going to stand by and let these misunderstandings perpetuate?

Perpetuate? They cut off their own thingies, for pity's sake!

Quote

I have been a student for 25 years. I don't think I'm unusual or any different than the rest of the human family, except for one thing: I've been studying the new age, ascended master, literature and trying it exactly as they recommend: live purely, meditate; I do it all. And to what result you might ask? Now that I have something to report, I can't find the way to get listened to. H.P. Blavatsky in THE SECRET DOCTRINE makes history by reporting on the existence of seven races, only how are the races different? Since all of recorded human history is reportedly the fifth root race, what comparisons can be made?

Comparisons? Uhh...anybody?

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

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"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

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Posted: July 30 2007,07:14

Quote (Kristine @ July 29 2007,22:51)

I've been studying the new age, ascended master, literature and trying it exactly as they recommend

Alas, she misses the whole point -- as do all the New Agers.

In the words of Princess Leia: "He's got to choose his own path -- no one can do it for him."

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stevestory

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Posted: July 31 2007,08:12

Does anybody else feel that Neil Tyson is the new Carl Sagan?

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Posted: July 31 2007,09:26

Quote (stevestory @ July 31 2007,07:12)

Does anybody else feel that Neil Tyson is the new Carl Sagan?

Oh, yes. Cubiclegrrl at RedStateRabble listed him in response to our discussion on the subject, which was my introduction to the guy. I must say that I'm very impressed by him - great speaker, great humor.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Henry J

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Posted: July 31 2007,11:05

Re "In the words of Princess Leia:"

Course, that was after she told him to get the big walking carpet out of her way.

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Posted: July 31 2007,11:34

Quote (Henry J @ July 31 2007,10:05)

Re "In the words of Princess Leia:"

Course, that was after she told him to get the big walking carpet out of her way.

And before his "chosen path" led him to her.

Princess Leia was not stupid.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

djmullen

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Posted: Aug. 02 2007,03:04

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

TOTALLY OFF TOPIC, BUT I CAN'T RESIST

Hermagoras: "I've been traveling for a couple of days and my crappy motel didn't have an internet connection in my room. (The Comfort Inn in Newark, Delaware is a fleabag horror-show)."

Sorry, Mate, but THIS is a crappy motel: About fifteen years ago, my Aunt and Uncle wanted to go to Oregon to visit some friends and also see their daughter in Great Falls, Montana on the way. My mother decided to go along and I was "invited" to join them and handle the baggage and do all the driving. So we took Amtrak (which was only six hours late leaving Wisconsin, a record, I hear) from Wisconsin to Great Falls, then rented a car and drove to some national park, then took a train, then a car and finally we ended up I don't remember exactly where, but it was a medium sized city where my Uncle (who, bless his departed soul was rather tight with a buck) had made a reservation at a Super-8 motel.

I found the address on a map and started tracking towards it and we couldn't help notice that the town, which shall remain nameless because I can't remember it, started out looking kind of pretty, but as we drove on it was starting to look rather ... industrial. Low rent industrial. And the closer we got to Ground-8, the more low rent and industrial things got.

We finally found the Super-8 motel and I swear, it had a refinery behind it, a quarry/rock crushing plant to one side of it and something that smelled like a skunk rendering plant on the other side. The front faced a freeway interchange (with 24 hour semi traffic, of course).

We checked in ("Find another motel? But we have reservations here!") and the place seemed to have been made by parking a bunch of double-wide trailers next to one another and punching a hallway through them. The surface of the floor varied up and down by at least eight inches as we walked to our room (which was on the rock-crushing end of the motel). I couldn't help but notice that our room (me and mom- don't ask) also had a floor that listed perceptibly, but that was okay because I like to sleep with my head higher than my feet. So we all went to sleep.

We were awakened at about 6:30 am by a loud, piercing shriek coming from the connecting door that led to my aunt and uncle's room. The loud, piercing shriek turned out to be coming from my aunt. She had woken up, walked into the bathroom and stepped into something wet. She turned on the bathroom light and discovered that the sewers had backed up and every bowel movement that every inhabitant of that cursed motel had taken in the last two weeks had gurgled out of the toilet and all over the bathroom floor and half of their bedroom floor. (That was about the time the shriek started.) When I got there, I noted that the bathtub was about two thirds full too. My aunt was and is rather fastidious (think O'Leary, but with a sense of humor) and stepping into three inches of crap upset her a tad. As did discovering that she had the remains of a turd squished between her toes. IIRC, she didn't stop shrieking until exhaustion and fumes from the bathroom overcame her.

We left that enchanting place as soon as four people could use the one remaining non-BMed bathroom (and my aunt could pry the rest of the turd from between her toes) and my final view of that wonderful Super-8 motel, which was in my rear-view mirror as we headed for the freeway at about a hundred miles an hour, was of the sewage truck sucking out their cesspool.

Now THAT is a bad motel!

We now return you to your regular programming where I invite you to note the top of the page where young Salvador Cordova, YEC, reminds us all that his blog is "Dedicated to exploring the possibility that all universe(sic) and life have come into existence very recently by an act of Inteligent Design".

Now don't go calling ID Creationism again, you heathens!

k.e

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Posted: Aug. 02 2007,09:00

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

djmullen regales

Quote

Sorry, Mate, but THIS is a crappy motel: About fifteen years ago,......

Ha, you only spent one night there!
And, you didn't mention the quality of the food.
Nor the staff's attention to detail. Did they provide free female condoms in the rooms as does the 'Granville' in Port Moresby Papua New Guinea? Which has excellent food, cheap beer if slightly warm and between each run down 40 year old breeze block room a covered walkway. It sits next to a betel nut market and so the 12 foot high fence capped with razor wire and the guards patrolling 24 hour a day gives you a nice feeling of security especially after dark. Since walking in the street outside is completely out of the question you will appreciate the friendly bus service however the driver is nowhere near as good as the driver from the Hideaway Hotel a short walk (which must be driven) around the corner. Now not only can the driver from the Hideaway dodge every pothole in the road from his hotel to your chosen destination, he speaks perfect English and welcomes praise on his ability to dodge potholes. The food at the Hideaway leaves a little ...oh OK, a lot to be desired. Bacon and eggs is a slice of fried spam with eggs but hey the place has a pool and they do put extra charges on your credit card, you have been warned. Now the Gateway Hotel on the other hand is fabulous.....except for the food and if you are planning on staying there don't ever check out because the place is always full and you could end up at the Granville. The Lamana is also fabulous except for the rooms and the TV but the food is great. François the French chef there manages to produce the finest Indian food I have tasted and it turns out that he likes to take credit for it too. I happen to know he has an Indian Chef but don't tell him he's a big guy and you never know. The staff are great and the 'Gold Club' night club really rocks (I'm told).
I didn't deliberately set out to stay at all those places but the various stuff ups that happened while I was supposed to be in the jungle on the side of a mountain 90 minutes away by helicopter meant I got to see more crappy hotels in 2 weeks than I bargained for.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

stevestory

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Posted: Aug. 03 2007,22:10

I really did not expect to see this.

Quote

Gingrich says war on terror 'phony'
Former speaker says energy independence is key

By BOB DEANS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/03/07

Washington — Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said Thursday the Bush administration is waging a "phony war" on terrorism, warning that the country is losing ground against the kind of Islamic radicals who attacked the country on Sept. 11, 2001.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2007/08/03/newt0803.html

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http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2007/08/03/newt0803.html

Posted: Aug. 03 2007,22:45

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 03 2007,22:10)

I really did not expect to see this.

Quote

Gingrich says war on terror 'phony'
Former speaker says energy independence is key

By BOB DEANS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/03/07

Washington — Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said Thursday the Bush administration is waging a "phony war" on terrorism, warning that the country is losing ground against the kind of Islamic radicals who attacked the country on Sept. 11, 2001.

Oh heck, every Republicrat in the country knows that Dubya is about as popular as rabies, and are all scrambling frantically to distance themselves as far from him as they possibly can. It's the only prayer they have of getting elected. Or even taken seriously.

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

stevestory

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