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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Kent Hovind on tape

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k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,20:10    Quote (Bing @ Feb. 25 2007,00:45) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,14:37) Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. He was sorta alone (as in he did not have a coleague), he did have his young (bored looking) son with him. It was quite amazing with the arguments he used. Micro/Macro evolution, Why do we still have monkeys, The list of scientists etc etc where all mentioned. This site gave me enough counter-arguments to send him packing without being rude. He didn't even leave me the pamphlets he was going to. This place and PT had me well prepared in my arguments. Seen them before and had answers/refutations. With hindsight I could have handled it better. Invited him in and show him where he had been lied to. OTOH I did not want to upset him too much. I believe that he thought he was doing good work. That's where you and I differ.  I had one coming to my door every Saturday for weeks on end.  He seemed like a nice old geezer but polite requests to leave me alone and not knock on my door were ignored. So finally fed up, I invited him in.  When I asked him to light the candles in the points of the pentagram that I had painted on the basement floor while I went and got the chicken he took off like a scalded cat. And the next week I saw him cross the street as he walked up the sidewalk.  Guess I musta scared him or something? Brilliant! Not that I would do anything like that (stifled guffaw). What was going on in that guy's head? The thought of the equally real 'other' invading his earthly carcass? Why not? At least he was aware that it had already happened once. When he walks down a street does he see demons and devils which are by comparison just as real as his gods? The fear of the fear that made him jump in through the door of a church of loonies who ......surprise surprise confirmed his deepest fears. The thought that his character was too weak to counteract someone strong and free enough to perform satanic acts in his own basement? And his fear that he could be sucked in just as easily to his cult of current choice. If you wait long enough they all give themselves away. Empty words, nice uniforms and one whole day a week devoted to stroking inner fears by the self deluded. Religion.... can't shoot it, can't eat it -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:09    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,19:48)   Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,17:12)   Quote I believe that he thought he was doing good work. and THAT'S the real problem. instead of taking down his arguments, I would suggest a more productive approach would be to show the DAMAGE his "good work" has and is causing to education in this country. then he can ask himself where his arguments went wrong. Fair point Ichy. How would you suggest going about that? I wouldn't know where to start. yes, more difficult, but I would use studies like that in the nat. geo. issue on evolution that came out a couple of years ago (nov 2004 I think) where the there was data on the influence of extreme religious indoctrination on education. or, you could go and show him data on the trends in homeschooled kids over the last few decades, and see how well in the sciences these religiously homeschooled kids have placed on standard tests. or you could talk in more general terms of the impacts of science and technology on the economy of the US - talk about the role of science in medicine; the role of evolution, for example, in cancer research and epidemiology. by teaching kids falsities about science in general, they are causing direct damage to the future quality of life of the very people they want to "help". I'm just scratching the surface here; entire books have been written on the subject, which you might want to read. one that pops off the top of my head is the Ehrlich's "The Betrayal of Science and Reason" http://www.amazon.com/Betraya....9634847 IOW, there are many different directions you can take to show that breeding ignorance causes direct damage to the very quality of life we have come to expect as "1st worlders". and it saves you having to counter every little bit of ignorant claptrap they try to spew at you, unless, like myself, you actually enjoy wasting their time by doing just that. for fun, you might try seeing if you can find the movie: Idiocracy It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:40    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,14:37) Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. My favorite tactic for dealing with Witnesses (and any other fundy nutters who came to my door): For years, I kept a large collection of reptiles and exotic animals in my house (I used to do educational talks and shows for school classes, scout troops, etc).  One of my pets was an adult black racer snake, wildcaught -- about four feet long, glossy black, very fast, very alert, and hated humans with an absolute passion.  Every time his cage was approached, he'd instantly rear up in the classic S-shaped snake-attack position.  Everyone who saw him assumed he was some sort of mamba or something. Also had a tank full of African emperor scorpions.  The largest scorp species in the world -- eight inches tip to tip, huge pincers, with a highly visible stinger at least a quarter-inch long at the end of their graceful curving tail.  Glossy black.  The most evil-looking thing you can imagine. Both critters were, of course, utterly harmless to humans.   So, whenever the god-botherers would show up, I'd invite them in and sit them down, on a love seat that just happened to be right between these two cages.  After they had a good long look, I'd ask to borrow their Bible, and open it to Luke 10:19: "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,  and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall by any means hurt you." I then asked them to go ahead and demonstrate their faith in the Bible by opening either cage and handing me its occupant.  Their choice which one. For some odd reason, no one ever took me up on my offer, and they all decided that they had better places to be. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:41    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned).

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:54    Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 24 2007,21:40) ... "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,  and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall by any means hurt you." I then asked them to go ahead and demonstrate their faith in the Bible by opening either cage and handing me its occupant.  Their choice which one. For some odd reason, no one ever took me up on my offer, and they all decided that they had better places to be. ROFL. Now that is pretty funny. Not an option for me though (I have no pets). TBH, I didn't really mind the visit. I found it quite interesting and was fair pleased that my exposure to here and PT bore some fruit. It was a tad surprising that he was using arguments that had been discussed here many times.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,22:52    Quote One of my pets was an adult black racer snake ouch. especially the wild caught ones. unless they were different in your neck o the woods, those things are some of the nastiest snakes I've ever tried to catch. at least they're not poisonous. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,22:55    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,21:41) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned). oh, i really recommend you check out that movie if you haven't seen it yet. rent the DVD or grab a torrent of it. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,12:40    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,22:55) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,21:41)   Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned). oh, i really recommend you check out that movie if you haven't seen it yet. rent the DVD or grab a torrent of it. Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online.

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,14:40    Stephen asks: Quote Can you expand on that Alan? TBH, I haven't got a clue as to what you mean. I was just saying that whilst you and I might try to convince others with logic, reason and evidence, some with political ambitions or aspiring cult leaders adopt and discard ideas as expediency dictates. Their motive is not to expand the boundaries of human knowledge but to gain power and control for its own sake. I doubt that, for example, Pol Pot, could have been dissuaded from his takeover of Cambodia by a lively debate of the issues. ID was important for what it was thought might be delivered politically, those who were using it have not gone away, and will still need watching.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,15:34    Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,15:40    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,16:34) Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org Mike Judge made it.  He's the guy behind Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill.  He also did Office Space, an all time classic.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,16:03    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,22:52) Quote One of my pets was an adult black racer snake ouch. especially the wild caught ones. unless they were different in your neck o the woods, those things are some of the nastiest snakes I've ever tried to catch. at least they're not poisonous. I used them in talks because they were the snake most of the kids were likely to have seen.  I would always say to them, "The good news is that you probably won't catch them anyway.  The bad news is that you just MIGHT."     ;> I had him for years, fed him, cleaned him, cared for him like a child -- and he still bit me every chance he had. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,17:32    Quote (GCT @ Feb. 25 2007,15:40) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,16:34) Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org Mike Judge made it.  He's the guy behind Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill.  He also did Office Space, an all time classic. ahh, thanks. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,18:35    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,18:32) Quote (GCT @ Feb. 25 2007,15:40) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,16:34)   Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org Mike Judge made it.  He's the guy behind Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill.  He also did Office Space, an all time classic. ahh, thanks. No worries bro.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,18:48    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,23:55) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,21:41) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned). oh, i really recommend you check out that movie if you haven't seen it yet. rent the DVD or grab a torrent of it. Florida is a terrible and crazy place to be, though there are some upsides. Every few months a screaming girlfriend demands that you remove a snake from her bedroom. Whereupon you go in, and find a harmless green snake, and grab him by the tail, and sling him into the woods in the back yard, and consequently appear to be Conan the Barbarian. And lets just say there are worse things to be, boyfriend-wise.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,19:22    Quote And lets just say there are worse things to be, boyfriend-wise. gator wrangler? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Mike PSS Posts: 428 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,21:11    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,20:22) Quote And lets just say there are worse things to be, boyfriend-wise. gator wrangler? In Florida... Facility Maintenance at a retirement trailer park. That scene could generate a TV series all on its own.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,06:59    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,19:55) That is not an action that I would use. Main reason being, it would involve me having to lie. That is not an option that I am willing to do. Stephen, it's only a lie if you don't really have the pentagram, candles, and chicken. Just a thought. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,07:04    Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 25 2007,16:03) I had him for years, fed him, cleaned him, cared for him like a child -- and he still bit me every chance he had. Sounds like my kids. Just sayin'. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,12:24    Quote (Lou FCD @ Feb. 26 2007,06:59) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,19:55) That is not an action that I would use. Main reason being, it would involve me having to lie. That is not an option that I am willing to do. Stephen, it's only a lie if you don't really have the pentagram, candles, and chicken. Just a thought. :D LOL! Made me laugh. Physically, I don't even have a basement (there is a river within a few feet of my backdoor{makes a basement somewhat problematic}). But, (and I suspect you know) it wasn't the physical reality that I would consider dishonest. It was the mental atitude (and I don't posses a live chicken). I am just not prepared for a hospitable Satanic visit (very remiss of me, I guess). Still, got some ebola and a flaming torch.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,21:12    Man, you guys are easy... I always tell them I had a vision from God, and He told me that they are going to ####.  There is nothing they can say to counter that, and I have had excellent results.  Which means of course, that I get left alone. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,00:49    BTW, if someone is looking for Idiocracy and they really can't locate it, let me know (PM). -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,04:32    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 01 2007,00:49) BTW, if someone is looking for Idiocracy and they really can't locate it, let me know (PM). According to Amazon it isn't released just yet. Sure does explain why I had a problem locating one in the shops.   :-)

don_quixote Posts: 110 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,09:16    Found a torrent for Idiocracy at thepiratebay. It really does seem to divide opinion!

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,17:22    Quote (don_quixote @ Mar. 01 2007,09:16) Found a torrent for Idiocracy at thepiratebay. It really does seem to divide opinion! for future reference, there is a reason I mentioned using my PM. I don't think Wes has a problem with posting links to places like PirateBay, but others might, if you get my drift. just a suggestion. btw, it came out in 2005, IIRC, and you can certainly rent it: http://www.netflix.com/MovieDi....0028899 if you don't want to buy it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000K7VHOG/km-20/ref=nosim -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

don_quixote Posts: 110 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,18:40    Point taken, Ichthyic. That was indeed inconsiderate of me.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,18:56    no worries -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2007,06:01    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) for fun, you might try seeing if you can find the movie: Idiocracy It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. Just pre-ordered it at Amazon. It isn't due for release over here until about the 19th of this month. Still, I ordered "office space" as well and should get that about Wed.

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2007,07:13    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Mar. 04 2007,07:01) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) for fun, you might try seeing if you can find the movie: Idiocracy It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. Just pre-ordered it at Amazon. It isn't due for release over here until about the 19th of this month. Still, I ordered "office space" as well and should get that about Wed. Office Space is very funny IMO.  Let us know how you like it.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,13:11    Quote (GCT @ Mar. 04 2007,07:13) Office Space is very funny IMO.  Let us know how you like it. Got it today. Just finished watching it. I thought it was Ok and quite funny but nothing special. Having said that, I have only just watched it and most reports say it is better on 2nd (or 3rd) viewing. The start was very astute on the way people behave (I am talking about the traffic jam). An awfull lot of people will still drive, even when walking is quicker.

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