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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Goldilocks and the Three Finches

evopeach Posts: 248 Joined: July 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 14 2005,10:56    According to the evo press there are three dominant ground finches in the Galopolas Islands: Baby beak, Momma Beak and Poppa Beak. Baby Beak is short and able only to penetrate small soft seeds. Momma Beak can eat BabyBeaks seeds if required by climate but prefers the somewhat larger harder seeds that Baby cannot eat. Poppa Beak can in principle eat any of the seeds on the Island but would prefer the large hard shelled seeds that neither Mommma Beak nor Baby Beak can crack or penetrate. Now the Islands are fairly small, geographically compact and so there should not be too much trouble finding the fossils of these and other failed varieties of ground finches. So where can we see the huge number of finch fossils with intermediate sized beaks all the way up to huge beaks and down to tiny beaks and in small gradations since in a random walk without design or purpose there should be beaks that can't penetrate any of the seeds or could but are too large or small to be used for eating seeds or whatever. Surely the perfect muation did not occur that just exactly fit the several varieties of seeds ... that is a saltation event and we know all about those don't we Dr. Goldsmith. Are there hundreds yea thousands of such finch fossils ..please show me. You know this seed is too hard, this seed is too soft this seed is ....oops extinct a million times over. "Our theory of evolution has become ... one which cannot be refuted by any possible observations. Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is thus 'outside of empirical science' but not necessarily false. No one can think of ways to test it. Ideas, either without basis or based on a few laboratory experiments carried out in extremely simplified systems, have attained currency far beyond their validity. They have become part of an evolutionary dogma accepted by most of us as part of our training." Paul Ehrlich (Stanford Biology Professor) and L. Charles Birch (Sydney Biology Professor), 1967 tic toc tic toc

rimby Posts: 15 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 14 2005,14:10    Why do you think there would be "thousands" of finch fossils? The Galapagos Islands are, as you say, compact, furthermore they are volcanic; fossils of any type should be pretty rare. Since you are obviously a creationist burdened with emotional baggage (from the sneering tenor of your post), consider the following: Quote Indeed, it was Darwin who first recognized their volcanic origin, and who understood the profound implications of this origin for the history of life. For if the islands were volcanic, they must have formed after the creation of the world, and the organisms living there must have migrated there from someplace else. But since those organisms are found nowhere else, Darwin finally had to conclude that they had evolved there from South American ancestors.

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 14 2005,22:27    Evopeach. I think it's reasonable to give the source when you cut and paste. We all then have the opportunity to see the full context.

rimby Posts: 15 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 15 2005,06:41    Sorry, did you mean me? Here it is: Formation of the Islands

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 15 2005,09:05    Rimby No, I'd already seen something on PT about this, so sorry to put you to any trouble. It's evopeach. Whenever you see text without spelling mistakes, you can be sure he's just lifted it from somewhere (probably a creationist site such as AIG) and pasted it. I think he should at least acknowledge the source.

evopeach Posts: 248 Joined: July 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2005,03:34    I guess giving you  the year and names of the people quoted is not a sourcing. Quotes are to be performed accurately so cut and paste is a pretty good way to insure that. I take it that fossils that cannot be found either formed too slowly or too fast, in the wrong place, at the wrong time or only the beaks that were perfect fits for the seeds available resulted from the random mutations on the genes controlling beak characteristics. Were the finches that flew over from South America birds or non-birds?

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