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k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,18:46   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 07 2007,18:37)
Oh, fine K.E. - qoute him but don't bother with mine:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....p=45961

*sulks*

Oh ....missed that one ...humble apologies Richard ..thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I'll bend, fold, spindle, staple and mutilate it and send it to the Dept. of FUD for further processing...hopefully DT will attend to it ASP.

You put it in the wrong hole again Homo -DT

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,20:41   

DaveScot:
Quote
Don’t refer me to any crank science again.

Savor this moment.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,21:07   

StephenA sez ...
Quote
Personally I think God does like to do things that seem a bit bizzare every so often. For example, I have no doubt that he was breastfed at one stage.

Thank God God was not bottlefed ...

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,21:30   

Zero surfaces:

http://scienceblogs.com/goodmat....-309053

Quote
Zero:

I deleted your comment as spam. Your endless, pointless numerology has absolutely nothing to do with this post. If you want to post more of your silly gibberish, you can wait until I post something else about numerology; otherwise, take
it somewhere were someone cares.


Posted by: Mark C. Chu-Carroll | January 7, 2007 08:48 PM


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,22:04   

russ  
Quote
Not to digress too much, but could someone please explain to me the reason that the term “natural selection” is always used when referring to NDE, but “random mutation” is generally dropped.

Faulty premise. Natural selection has been integral to the Theory of Evolution since Darwin. Random mutation is something that was first observed in the 20th century, and is integral to modern Neutral Theory. "Random" means not correlated, in this case, with any chance for survival and reproduction that those mutated genes confer on individuals who possess them.

Joseph  
Quote
I guess it was a non-random catstrophe that ended the (alleged) reign of the dinosaurs.

Excellent example. Meteor and cometary impacts are contingent on factors that are uncorrelated with any chance for survival and reproduction. They are random with respect to what we wish would happen. Wishes on the X-axis. Impacts on the Y-axis. Random distribution.

Just as we know that lottery balls move according to known laws of physics, their results are uncorrelated with what we wish might happen (no correlation yields a random distribution).

Gildodgen  
Quote
I’ve made more that 1,500 hang glider flights, and have logged nearly a thousand hours of airtime in hang gliders since 1973.

Argument by hang gliding.

sabre  
Quote
If a mathamatical equation has any random term(s) random in it, the answer is by definition random.

No. It's not. (He claims to be an engineer.)

shaner74  
Quote
A sidewalk won’t sweep itself given a billion years.

Wrong again.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,23:17   

The conversation is now in the toilet at the I-married-a-creationist thread.

Well, as I have it on dubious authority (JAD) that I am not a lady, I'll go ahead and say that I don't care what a man does--if he stands, fine by me. But I never understood all this pride in men about being able to rester debout. Sitting allows women to, er, shall we say, differentiate two functions at the same time!  :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,23:28   

I should go to bed earlier. This thread gets real creepy at night.

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,23:52   

Oops! Double standard!

The interest listed on your profile isn't creepy?

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,00:35   

Guilty as charged.

   
Ra-Úl



Posts: 93
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,00:37   

Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 07 2007,23:52)
Oops! Double standard!

The interest listed on your profile isn't creepy?

Eeeeeewwww! Now that I've read both posts and the UD thread I feel so dirty. . . and totally out of Festive Welsh Ale. No Chimay in the cellar. No hard liquor. No more afdave thread. And now the visions in my head. I may not sleep tonight. Thanks :angry:

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Beauty is that which makes us desperate. - P Valery

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,06:40   

DaveScot
Quote
So you navigate by instinct in the dark with arms outstretched like a blind man to the front of the toilet, lift the lid, aim in the right general direction, listen for the splash, then center it by ear.

Super-secret ID research under way.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,06:45   

malnutritious            
Quote
Speaking of limited environments, Biosphere 2 is an interesting example. It was not a failed ecology, it only failed to meet the expectations of being a self contained environment which can support 8 human beings. In it’s natural tendancy to equilibrium the biosphere ecology destroyed much of the larger more dependent lifeforms in favor of a more suitable balance.

DaveScot            
Quote
Actually almost all vertebrates died and all pollinating insects died.

I’m getting a little tired of correcting you. Either improve the quality of your comments or find a different blog.

You didn't correct him, DaveScot. That's what he said. The ecosystem rejected some species, while others thrived. It was a disappointment, even a failure, from the point-of-view of humans. But the bacteria, cockroaches and apparently ants liked the ecology just fine, even adjusting it to arrive at a reasonable balance. Your original comment was perhaps more accurate, that "Attempts at designing such an ecology by humans have all failed," assuming you mean a completely enclosed artificial structure as a human domicile. Even in this context, malnutritious made a valid comment extending the idea of ecological balance to more accurately reflect nature. Perhaps you are being just a wee bit vertebrate-centric in your views.

But, of course, that's not the point of your post.

--
Edit:

DaveScot    
Quote
Perhaps the original poster should have said a viable, self-sufficient ecology instead of just an ecology. In any designed ecology the usual result is death for everything. Attempts at designing such an ecology by humans have all failed.

I reread your comment. It was not accurate whatsoever. The result was not "death for everything".  The comment by malnutritious not only corrected the error, but provided valid reasoning that accurately extends the notion of ecosystem.

Now we know why your threatened to ban malnutritious. He caught you in a flagrant error and added a significant view to the discussion. By the way, most of the living world is prokaryotes. A significant portion of your own body mass is prokaryotes.  Most of the animal world is invertebrate. Why do you hate most of the living world?

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,07:19   

:O

Quote
21. Designed Jacob // Jan 7th 2007 at 11:17 pm

Even without urinals, I’m still gonna stand up.

The ladies should just be glad we sit for the other function.

Comment by Designed Jacob — January 7, 2007 @ 11:17 pm


S-so should you, Jacob. So should you.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,07:22   

Quote
56. DaveScot  // Jan 8th 2007 at 7:56 am

Freelurker

If you’re an engineer and you’ve never had to find an answer using the scientific method then IMO you’re not doing anything really interesting. Conversely, if you’re a scientist and you haven’t had to engineer experimental apparatus in seeking answers to questions you’re not doing anything really interesting. Both disciplines overlap. The only real difference is motivation. Engineers only do science as needed and scientists only do engineering as needed.

I wouldn’t give you a plugged nickel for any engineering professor. Surely you’ve heard the saying “if you can’t do, then teach”.

Comment by DaveScot — January 8, 2007 @ 7:56 am


####, DaveTard never fails to maintain his idiocy.  Every post by him on this thread has at least one idiotic statement.  And BTW, DaveTard, it's "No True Scotsman" Fallacy, not the "True Scotman" fallacy.  He can't even get his logical errors straight.  

So according to DT's logic, if a scientist hasn't invented a new contraption in order to do his experiment, his experiment is worthless.  What a first class TARD statement from a first class TARD.

"If you can't do, teach"???????   LOL, I work in an academic clinical setting.  I have to "do" in order to "teach" everyday.  If I didn't, patients would die at the hands of residents.  I've worked private practice and academics.  Academics is by far more challenging in terms of the "do" portion of things.  Another baseless statement from the TARD-extraordinaire.  His level of experience in these matters is limited, yet he proceeds as if he is an expert in these areas.  Pathetic.

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,07:29   

Quote (jujuquisp @ Jan. 08 2007,07:22)
So according to DT's logic, if a scientist hasn't invented a new contraption in order to do his experiment, his experiment is worthless.  What a first class TARD statement from a first class TARD.

Scientists can be engineers. Engineers can be scientists. But science is not the same as engineering.

Scientists can be cooks, too.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,07:33   

Quote
Conversely, if you’re a scientist and you haven’t had to engineer experimental apparatus in seeking answers to questions you’re not doing anything really interesting.



ooohhhhkay.


So, Einstein was a boring useless slacker who did nothing of interest, while Wilhelm Reich was an amazing scientist who accomplished much more interesting things for science.

And Newton was only doing something worthwhile when he was playing with the pipes in his Alchemy set.



Does Davetard even think before he posts? Or is he just pleased to see his magnificent words all neatly typed on the screen?

150 IQ my asss.  :p

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,07:57   

Quote
Faid   Posted on Jan. 08 2007,07:33


150 IQ my asss.


Asss?  Asses is the correct plural form of ass.  Get the donkey farmer off of here, please.

You forgot--it is a 150 IQ based on a weak correlation of an SAT score from 1974.  With inflation, his IQ today is somewhere around 450.  (I know, that is a ridiculous IQ score, but so is 150 for an adult, depending on the type of IQ test administered).

  
Ogee



Posts: 89
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,08:58   

Quote (jujuquisp @ Jan. 08 2007,07:22)
"If you can't do, teach"???????   LOL, I work in an academic clinical setting.  I have to "do" in order to "teach" everyday.  

You'll have to forgive Davetard:  he has absolutely no clue as to what real engineers, much less scientists or engineering professors, actually do for a living, or what goes on at universities.  I have never encountered anyone so transparently insecure about their lack of credentials or education.

  
Steverino



Posts: 411
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,09:10   

Again, where is the science or the evidence that proves if something has the appearance of design, that design took place?

Don't they have to prove that for any part of their argument to work?

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,09:11   

Così fan Tardi, troppo tardo.
More cruncy idiocy from Tardo de Tardis.


 
Quote
You forgot--it is a 150 IQ based on a weak correlation of an SAT score from 1974.  With inflation, his IQ today is somewhere around 450.  (I know, that is a ridiculous IQ score, but so is 150 for an adult, depending on the type of IQ test administered).


A very weak correlation since that correlation is only valid for a 17 year old. He took his SAT after being in the Marines in his  20's IIRC. Any extra military vocational training skews the results further and a discount is normally applied to remove the skew. A correlated IQ score of 150 on SAT gives a  'mental age' 50% higher than 17, say 25 years equivalent mental age. After 50 years age a very high IQ is practically meaningless.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Bebbo



Posts: 161
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,09:37   

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 08 2007,06:45)
malnutritious            
Quote
Speaking of limited environments, Biosphere 2 is an interesting example. It was not a failed ecology, it only failed to meet the expectations of being a self contained environment which can support 8 human beings. In it’s natural tendancy to equilibrium the biosphere ecology destroyed much of the larger more dependent lifeforms in favor of a more suitable balance.

DaveScot            
Quote
Actually almost all vertebrates died and all pollinating insects died.

I’m getting a little tired of correcting you. Either improve the quality of your comments or find a different blog.

You didn't correct him, DaveScot. That's what he said. The ecosystem rejected some species, while others thrived. It was a disappointment, even a failure, from the point-of-view of humans. But the bacteria, cockroaches and apparently ants liked the ecology just fine, even adjusting it to arrive at a reasonable balance. Your original comment was perhaps more accurate, that "Attempts at designing such an ecology by humans have all failed," assuming you mean a completely enclosed artificial structure as a human domicile. Even in this context, malnutritious made a valid comment extending the idea of ecological balance to more accurately reflect nature. Perhaps you are being just a wee bit vertebrate-centric in your views.

But, of course, that's not the point of your post.

--
Edit:

DaveScot      
Quote
Perhaps the original poster should have said a viable, self-sufficient ecology instead of just an ecology. In any designed ecology the usual result is death for everything. Attempts at designing such an ecology by humans have all failed.

I reread your comment. It was not accurate whatsoever. The result was not "death for everything".  The comment by malnutritious not only corrected the error, but provided valid reasoning that accurately extends the notion of ecosystem.

Now we know why your threatened to ban malnutritious. He caught you in a flagrant error and added a significant view to the discussion. By the way, most of the living world is prokaryotes. A significant portion of your own body mass is prokaryotes.  Most of the animal world is invertebrate. Why do you hate most of the living world?

Hmmm. Dave often refers to human designs to back up his case for ID. So, if designed ecosystems don't work is that reason to infer to ecosystems aren't designed?!

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,09:40   

Quote (jujuquisp @ Jan. 08 2007,08:22)
Quote
56. DaveScot  // Jan 8th 2007 at 7:56 am
Conversely, if you’re a scientist and you haven’t had to engineer experimental apparatus in seeking answers to questions you’re not doing anything really interesting.

Comment by DaveScot — January 8, 2007 @ 7:56 am
.

Can someone show me the experimental apparatus Dembski engineered to study ID?

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,09:41   

Hey DT since WAD is a statistics whiz ask him to calculate your IQ corrected for age, should be a dawdle for him.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,09:44   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 08 2007,09:40)
Quote (jujuquisp @ Jan. 08 2007,08:22)
Quote
56. DaveScot  // Jan 8th 2007 at 7:56 am
Conversely, if you’re a scientist and you haven’t had to engineer experimental apparatus in seeking answers to questions you’re not doing anything really interesting.

Comment by DaveScot — January 8, 2007 @ 7:56 am
.

Can someone show me the experimental apparatus Dembski engineered to study ID?

Does a flash animation count?

*fart*

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
2ndclass



Posts: 182
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,10:14   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 08 2007,09:40)
Can someone show me the experimental apparatus Dembski engineered to study ID?



--------------
"I wasn't aware that classical physics had established a position on whether intelligent agents exercising free were constrained by 2LOT into increasing entropy." -DaveScot

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,10:17   

PZ claims that common descent implies nested hierarchies. I guess PZ hasn't attended JoeG's lecture.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,10:35   

Freelurker    
Quote
Does anyone here claim that a majority, or even a large percentage, of engineers believes that ID would be useful in the practice of science? Notice that teleology plays no role in the practice of engineering.

Columbo    
Quote
You’ll have to help me here, Freelurker…. 1) What does majority thinking have to do with correctness?

Columbo, I believe your statement would be more approprately posed to Gildodgen, Stephen Meyers, IDist, idnet.com.au and DaveScot who made these statements before Freelurker added his simple (and unanswered) query.

Gildodgen offering the text of Meyer’s response to the question, Why are many engineers intrigued by intelligent design theory?
   
Quote
And when you have so many top-level professors of engineering — in mechanical, electrical or software engineering — saying, I think we’re looking at systems that clearly show evidence of design, I think the Darwinists have a serious problem. If they can’t persuade those people, that the 19th-century mechanism of selection and variation is up to this task, I think that the theory is in serious trouble.

IDist    
Quote
A very good number of medical doctors are skeptical of darwinisim, and I think they count as biologists.

IDist    
Quote
BTW, any idea about when the updated version of the dissent list will be available?

idnet.com.au    
Quote
ID will become main stream within 5-10 years and the vast majority of accademia, who have only played lip service to the mighty power of RM+NS, in order to maintain their social respectability, will discard the myth without another thought.

DaveScot    
Quote
It appears that engineers, medical doctors, and mathematicians are more likely than others to reject the chance hypothesis for the origin of life.


--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,10:43   

Any evidence for this bold statement?????

 
Quote
DaveScot    
Quote
It appears that engineers, medical doctors, and mathematicians are more likely than others to reject the chance hypothesis for the origin of life.


Hey look!  I can make up stuff without any evidence too!!  

 
Quote
JujuQuisp    
Quote
It appears that engineers, medical doctors, and mathematicians are more likely than others to ACCEPT the chance hypothesis for the origin of life. *fart*


TARD

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,11:57   

This is becoming very entertaining.  Review the Meyer quote:
Quote
Oftentimes people have criticized the intelligent design movement because there are so many prominent professors of engineering in our number. But we don’t make any apologies for that, because engineers are precisely the scientists that know what it takes to design things, to build things.

My emphasis.  

But DaveScot says:
Quote
I wouldn’t give you a plugged nickel for any engineering professor. Surely you’ve heard the saying “if you can’t do, then teach”.

Again, my emphasis.

So, Davey, it follows that the value of Meyer’s view, and GilDodg’em’s quote of Meyer’s view is...

(And the full quote is, “If you can’t do, teach.  And if you can’t teach, become Blog Czar where neither doing nor teaching matter.”)

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2007,12:33   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 08 2007,10:17)
PZ claims that common descent implies nested hierarchies. I guess PZ hasn't attended JoeG's lecture.

We can only assume that if only PZ were an electrical engineer, he'd realize how wrong he is.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
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