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  Topic: MrIntelligentDesign, Edgar Postrado's new Intelligent Design< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,12:30   

*they're doing science*

Damn, where is the edit button?

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,12:43   

Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 11 2015,13:20)
 
Quote
They are absolutists in a very bad sense -- once they have convinced themselves, or become convinced, that they have THE TRUTH, well, they must be correct and so everyone else must be wrong.  It is a self-reinforcing system of errors.
They are psychologically highly invested in their constructs, for certain.

     
Quote
[Religion is] an enabler, for sure

Yes.  Neither one is endlessly going on about religion.  Gary spent quite a bit of time at ARN arguing against literalist interpretations and creationism.  However, he keeps throwing in unnecessary religious dogwhistles (the finger of god as a directional arrow in his diagram, references to trinities of things, Adam and Eve, etc.) and clearly wants to save ID from itself and thereby unify religion and science.  Religion is not driving him the way it drives Phillip Johnson, William Dembski, and Jonathan Wells, for example, and he's not a fundamentalist, but it's a reinforcer.  Edgar is also not front-and-center about religion, but unlike Gary he does seem to be a young-earther, and his insistence on animals being intellen is because he is presuming divine creation, so I think religion is a bit more fundamental for him (in both senses, I guess).

I'd have to agree.  Can't believe I'm saying this, but Gary does seem to be slightly more sane than Edgar.  Edgar is far more invested in Christianity than Gary, although both are stuck tight to it.
   
Quote
 
Quote
he's literally stuck in place and will defend his position until something truly over-powers his ability to hold to his interlocking set of errors.
 Exactly.  So what does that take?  What's the best route to showing or convincing him that he's wrong?

Therapy?
I'm honestly not sure there is a 'best route'.
How do you convince someone that their 'evidence' has no evidentiary force or standing?
How do you convince them that their 'logic' is anything but?
How do you teach adults, in particular, how to abstract, generalize, analyze?
How do you even get them to see that there's something there that's worth learning?  If they don't already see it, I think it's all but impossible.
And once you're dealing with someone who is obsessed with their own "insights" who thinks you are trying to change them, well, kiss the effort goodbye.
 
Quote
 
Quote
What must be really really devastating for Gaulin and Postardo is that they can't even catch the ID crowd's eye
 If I was them, that would be eating me up, but they don't seem nearly as bothered as I would expect.

True enough, although I think they are both whistling past the graveyard and are putting on brave fronts.
We're "the enemy" and so cannot be allowed to see how much their failures have damaged them.
Gary let's it leak through sometimes as part of his "poor poor unjustly unappreciated me" schtick.
Edgar is too loony-tunes to be sufficiently self-aware and so probably doesn't see it as clearly as Gary, dimly though Gary might see it.

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,12:58   

Quote (ChemiCat @ Oct. 11 2015,05:25)
Postcardo

Are trees "intellen" or "naturen"?

Using your not-a-theory explain why;

Oak trees, when attacked by a predator (insects, caterpillars etc.) they increase tannin production in the leaves to repel the attack.

Not only this But they send chemical signals to other oaks in the vicinity which increase tannin production even though they are not under attack.

Note I said "explain" not come out with bald assertions as usual.

Also, genius, why don't you write in your native language and employ a translator? This would save a lot of time and effort trying to understand your execrable grammar and syntax.

Yes, trees are intellen but what they are doing are naturen.

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,13:04   

Quote (The whole truth @ Oct. 11 2015,06:42)
Edgar, at [URL=http://www.sciforums.com/threads/founder-discoverer-scientist-researcher-and-author-of-the-new-intelligent-design-id-and-th

e-dis.152790/page-9]sciforums[/URL] you said: "Thus, the conclusion that the earth is young is logical and scientific and close to reality than old earth!"

In your opinion, how old is Earth?

In your opinion, how old is this universe?

Do you believe that humans existed during the time that trilobites existed?

In your opinion, why are trilobites extinct?

How old is the earth? I really don't know since I did not yet test it since I don't have enough money to test it. Once I become famous and rich and all taxes and grants will flood to me, I will do it as one of my research topic.

Universe's age? I don't know but I think that it is young since if the universe is old, we will never find any blackholes...

Trilobites and humans? Probably since if IA can designed all Xs at will, then, that is a possibility..

Why trilobites extinct? Well, they had just followed the Biological Interrelation, BiTs, with time.

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,13:09   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 11 2015,10:30)
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 11 2015,17:05)
Quote
Combining all this with his childishness and his complete failure to comprehend the slightest thing about science as a process or as a product, well, you have the train-wreck in which we are currently participating.


Incomprehension of science is common to both Edgar and Gary. My reading of them is that both of them had an insight that seemed so blazingly obvious to them that they skipped over the need to document supporting evidence and to test their hypotheses, and rushed straight into building highly elaborate and detailed (but wrong) models of reality.  Both are reinforced by thinking that they have supported their religious preconceptions.  However, both of them recognize the importance of science as a way of knowing, so both of them claim to doing science (or 'real-science' in Gary's words), and it is highly important to both of them for their ideas to be accepted primarily as science.  I'm fascinated by the combination of both of them insisting that only they have real science (and that everyone else is mistaken) with the cognitive dissonance that they share in that neither of them understand how science works.  It is also interesting that they do not pick up any clues from each other's mistakes, although neither of them seems strong on picking up clues of any kind whatsoever.  Both are completely resistant to recognizing their mistakes: Gary doubles down when he is wrong on fundamental facts, but Edgar retreats into circular reasoning.

What does it take to collapse such an intricate and reinforced but patently wrong view of reality, and what happens afterward?  How do people who claim to be operating from logic and evidence ignore evidence of their being wrong?  How do we convince people who insist on deluding themselves about something?

Postardo is a special kind of retard. Gaulin seems to at least unsderstand some of the criticism.

Postardo doesn't even attempt to address the logical issues, and the fundamental misconceptions pointed out to him, he just handwaives and repeats the same crap over and over again. Even the most simple refutations seem to completely go over his head.

If potholer was still awarding his Golden Crocoduck of the year, this guy would win hands down

It is simple in science.

I will only accept scientific criticisms if the critics have a replacement for my new discoveries of real intelligence. If not, I consider them religious rants.

Why? Since I did it. I criticized the 80+ definitions of intelligence, and I have one that could sum up all of them all..

I criticized ToE and I had a replacement and called Biological Interrelation, BiTs.

I criticized Uncertainty Principle and I had replacement and called Certainty Principle...thus, I have science and I am a good critic! THERE ARE MORE actually!

That is how you must do in science and not illogical and nonsense rantings!

DO THEM and I will believe you. Don't do them and you will never win!

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,13:16   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,20:04)
Universe's age? I don't know but I think that it is young since if the universe is old, we will never find any blackholes...

Gem after gem after gem...

POSretardo, what fancy science are you going to use for your experiment to determine the age of the earth once you're loaded?

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,13:22   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,14:09)
 
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 11 2015,10:30)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 11 2015,17:05)
   
Quote
Combining all this with his childishness and his complete failure to comprehend the slightest thing about science as a process or as a product, well, you have the train-wreck in which we are currently participating.


Incomprehension of science is common to both Edgar and Gary. My reading of them is that both of them had an insight that seemed so blazingly obvious to them that they skipped over the need to document supporting evidence and to test their hypotheses, and rushed straight into building highly elaborate and detailed (but wrong) models of reality.  Both are reinforced by thinking that they have supported their religious preconceptions.  However, both of them recognize the importance of science as a way of knowing, so both of them claim to doing science (or 'real-science' in Gary's words), and it is highly important to both of them for their ideas to be accepted primarily as science.  I'm fascinated by the combination of both of them insisting that only they have real science (and that everyone else is mistaken) with the cognitive dissonance that they share in that neither of them understand how science works.  It is also interesting that they do not pick up any clues from each other's mistakes, although neither of them seems strong on picking up clues of any kind whatsoever.  Both are completely resistant to recognizing their mistakes: Gary doubles down when he is wrong on fundamental facts, but Edgar retreats into circular reasoning.

What does it take to collapse such an intricate and reinforced but patently wrong view of reality, and what happens afterward?  How do people who claim to be operating from logic and evidence ignore evidence of their being wrong?  How do we convince people who insist on deluding themselves about something?

Postardo is a special kind of retard. Gaulin seems to at least unsderstand some of the criticism.

Postardo doesn't even attempt to address the logical issues, and the fundamental misconceptions pointed out to him, he just handwaives and repeats the same crap over and over again. Even the most simple refutations seem to completely go over his head.

If potholer was still awarding his Golden Crocoduck of the year, this guy would win hands down

It is simple in science.

I will only accept scientific criticisms if the critics have a replacement for my new discoveries of real intelligence. If not, I consider them religious rants.

Yet this is not how science works.
Not even remotely.
Provide a single bit of evidence from genuine science and scientists to support this absurd claim or stop making it.l
 
Quote
Why? Since I did it. I criticized the 80+ definitions of intelligence, and I have one that could sum up all of them all..

ROFLMAO
You have done no such thing.
Your "definition" is no such thing.  Your notions have no explanatory power.
They are ad hoc, arbitrary, capricious, usable only by you, and enjoying neither notice nor success in the world of science.
You are disqualified by your own ridiculous criteria.

 
Quote
I criticized ToE and I had a replacement and called Biological Interrelation, BiTs.

Nonsense.
Literally.
 
Quote
I criticized Uncertainty Principle and I had replacement and called Certainty Principle...thus, I have science and I am a good critic! THERE ARE MORE actually!

You are hardly a reliable source for attestations as to what you have done.
Again, that's not how science works.  At all.
Quote
That is how you must do in science and not illogical and nonsense rantings!

DO THEM and I will believe you. Don't do them and you will never win!

Absurd.
You've done nothing worthy of anything beyond composting.

Who are you to dictate to science how it 'must' operate?
Science is doing just fine without you.
Science does not work the way you want it to.
Science does not work the way you pretend it does.

You are a lunatic.  A pathetic lunatic.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,13:48   

Edgar, what validates your insights and intuitions?
What experiments support your work?
What experiment(s) would falsify your results?

If the only support you have for your nonsense is your own high opinion of them, then you have nothing but unfounded opinion.  That is not science.
That is not technology.

You cannot identify the necessary and sufficient conditions for intelligence.
You cannot provide an operational definition for intelligence.

Your "example" of 'hungry therefore eat' falls to the criticisms I and others have made.  "Eat" is a problem that has far more than 3 possible solutions.  Even in the most trivial, one can consume solid food, liquid food, or be fed via an intravenous drip.  So eating is clearly, by your own standards 'intellen'.

You have not justification for your terms 'intellen' and 'naturen'.
Worse, you assume a large part of your "conclusion" when you assert without evidence, reason or logic, that intelligence is not a natural phenomenon.
What counts as an unnatural phenomenon?  That which occurs occurs in nature.  That's what the words mean.

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,14:58   

This is hilarious. Guess what Posretardo's "new philosophy" is all about? Yes, the SAME argument he uses for biology, verbatim, just sticking philosophy in place of biology. It's amazing the fixation this guy has with Darwin.

https://youtu.be/rZyi8Wb....g?t=755

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,15:01   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 11 2015,15:58)
This is hilarious. Guess what Posretardo's "new philosophy" is all about? Yes, the SAME argument he uses for biology, verbatim, just sticking philosophy in place of biology. It's amazing the fixation this guy has with Darwin.

https://youtu.be/rZyi8Wb....g?t=755

The man is clearly a loon for all seasons.

One has to wonder if his mother dresses him in the morning.
And whether he wears sandals or goes barefoot -- it is clear even velcro would be beyond his skill level, and shoe laces are right out.

His job should be Head Loony at the Ministry of Silly Thoughts.

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,15:07   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 11 2015,22:01)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 11 2015,15:58)
This is hilarious. Guess what Posretardo's "new philosophy" is all about? Yes, the SAME argument he uses for biology, verbatim, just sticking philosophy in place of biology. It's amazing the fixation this guy has with Darwin.

https://youtu.be/rZyi8Wb....g?t=755

The man is clearly a loon for all seasons.

One has to wonder if his mother dresses him in the morning.
And whether he wears sandals -- it is clear even velcro would be beyond his skill level, and shoe laces are right out.

His job should be Head Loony at the Ministry of Silly Thoughts.

For all we know he could be a missing link. Somebody needs to send some experts from the Smithsonian to Japan and study this guy, I'm pretty sure he's good evidence for evolution

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,15:42   



--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,20:14   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 11 2015,13:16)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,20:04)
Universe's age? I don't know but I think that it is young since if the universe is old, we will never find any blackholes...

Gem after gem after gem...

POSretardo, what fancy science are you going to use for your experiment to determine the age of the earth once you're loaded?

I'm thinking about it. Give me time.

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,20:22   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 12 2015,03:14)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 11 2015,13:16)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,20:04)
Universe's age? I don't know but I think that it is young since if the universe is old, we will never find any blackholes...

Gem after gem after gem...

POSretardo, what fancy science are you going to use for your experiment to determine the age of the earth once you're loaded?

I'm thinking about it. Give me time.

oh boy, what did I just do? Oh my Flying Tortellini Phantasm! Please don't let POSretardo figure out the universe!

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,20:29   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 11 2015,13:22)
[quote=MrIntelligentDesign,Oct. 11 2015,14:09]  

Who are you to dictate to science how it 'must' operate?
Science is doing just fine without you.
Science does not work the way you want it to.
Science does not work the way you pretend it does.

You are a lunatic.  A pathetic lunatic.

Who are you to dictate to science how it 'must' operate?
ME: I am just following how the great GIANTS in science did. When they made discoveries, they replaced the old explanations. Einstein did it, Galileo did it, Newton did it, Max Planck did it, so many...thus, I am not alone in this system.



Science is doing just fine without you.
ME: No, it is not since you yourselves could witness how science could not even categorize if eating because someone is hungry is intellen or naturen! Thus, we have a problem and dilemma in science. If I did not have new discoveries to explain this simple natural phenomenon, we will never know the answer. Thus, you must be grateful to me and support me and send my name to Nobel Prize committee or any organization that could recognize my great contribution to science. OR SHUT UP!

.
Science does not work the way you want it to.
ME: As I had told you that it is not I that violate that. Science is progressing in where the old explanations are being replaced with new explanations. And my new discoveries are all new explanations. Deal with them! or SHUT UP!



Science does not work the way you pretend it does.
ME: Science is actually what I've been doing. I attempted peer-review. The peer-reviewers were dumb. I am attempting Adversarial Review, they are also dumb. I wrote science books but the critics are poorer than me that they could not afford USD 4.50 for my single book but they could afford paying porn sites, probably...LOL! I am so serious but my critics are not! I have replacements for science but my critics have only religious rants! THUS, I am doing science and my critics are doing nothing!

Thus, SHUT UP if you have nothing to offer in science.


You are a lunatic.  A pathetic lunatic.
ME: If my science books have only life, they will slap your face for not reading and see for yourselves that I have science! LOL!

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2015,20:59   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 11 2015,13:48)
Edgar, what validates your insights and intuitions?
What experiments support your work?
What experiment(s) would falsify your results?

If the only support you have for your nonsense is your own high opinion of them, then you have nothing but unfounded opinion.  That is not science.
That is not technology.

You cannot identify the necessary and sufficient conditions for intelligence.
You cannot provide an operational definition for intelligence.

Your "example" of 'hungry therefore eat' falls to the criticisms I and others have made.  "Eat" is a problem that has far more than 3 possible solutions.  Even in the most trivial, one can consume solid food, liquid food, or be fed via an intravenous drip.  So eating is clearly, by your own standards 'intellen'.

You have not justification for your terms 'intellen' and 'naturen'.
Worse, you assume a large part of your "conclusion" when you assert without evidence, reason or logic, that intelligence is not a natural phenomenon.
What counts as an unnatural phenomenon?  That which occurs occurs in nature.  That's what the words mean.

Edgar, what validates your insights and intuitions?
ME: My science.


What experiments support your work?
ME: I have gioven you an empirical evidence that you yourself can confirm and test.


What experiment(s) would falsify your results?
ME: Any experiments that could show that intelligence is also a natural phenomenon, no categorization of intellen to naturen.


If the only support you have for your nonsense is your own high opinion of them, then you have nothing but unfounded opinion.  That is not science.
That is not technology.

ME: I don't care if you will not accept my new discoveries.



You cannot identify the necessary and sufficient conditions for intelligence.
You cannot provide an operational definition for intelligence.
ME: That is not true since I've already shown you the natural phenomenon, a symmetry and the intelligent phenomenon is asymmetry..that is so obvious as obvious as the sun!



Your "example" of 'hungry therefore eat' falls to the criticisms I and others have made.  "Eat" is a problem that has far more than 3 possible solutions.  Even in the most trivial, one can consume solid food, liquid food, or be fed via an intravenous drip.  So eating is clearly, by your own standards 'intellen'.
ME: I said "hungry" and "eat". I did not say the process of eating. Three processes of eating but one principle of eating to satisfy the hunger.



You have not justification for your terms 'intellen' and 'naturen'.
ME: I did.



Worse, you assume a large part of your "conclusion" when you assert without evidence, reason or logic, that intelligence is not a natural phenomenon.
ME: Yes, intelligence is part of nature but intelligent is not a natural phenomenon since there is also an intelligent phenomenon..



What counts as an unnatural phenomenon?  That which occurs occurs in nature.  That's what the words mean.
ME: Unnatural phenomenon is an intelligent phenomenon but both of them are part of collective nature.

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,01:30   

Quote
Yes, trees are intellen but what they are doing are naturen.


That's it? That's an explanation? Another evidence-free assertion?

You are a bullshitting fraud with an IQ less than your hat size. A total waste of skin. Please do the world a favour and never breed.

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,01:38   

Noname,

Quote
What experiments support your work?


You take a box with holes in it, Cover the holes with tissue and drop a 68g egg through the holes, add tissue until both the egg and tissue don't break. This hen disproves the ToE!

IT DOES I TELL YOU. I AM NAPOLEON!!!1!!!x+x+x!!!111

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,01:51   

Forgot to add the linky thing





Quote
This hen disproves the ToE!


Should have been "This THEN..." but with it using an egg......

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,01:54   

why can't I add the link?

Try again;

http://talkrational.org/showthr....page=10

Let's see if that works!

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,03:12   

F60.81.
JM2C.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,03:29   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 10 2015,00:43)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 09 2015,21:22)
WHS Jr. appears to have a thing for apologetics and intelligent design creationism, judging from his other reviews. There's nothing to indicate that WHS Jr. brings any scientific acumen to the table.

I've already told you that I don't care anybody, OK? I will only care if you bring one experiment showing that I am wrong. Thus, I will surely care.

Thus, I have the best science and you have religion only.

Irrelevancy (I didn't say Edgar cared about WHS Jr.), irrelevancy (one can be shown wrong in many other ways than by experiment), arguing from facts not in evidence ("best science"?), and ignorance (Edgar, like many others responding to me, has no clue what my stances are).

Edgar can "agree" with WHS Jr. all he likes, but the fact remains that endorsement by WHS Jr. appears to have little merit based upon WHS Jr.'s other review history. Edgar need not care about that; I and others are doing fine making our own assessments of the rigor of any and all positive notices of Edgar's work; it isn't something that requires Edgar's validation.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:08   

Here is a thread at talkrational.org in which Edgar said:

"...you can see that bonobo, orangutan, chimps, and the likes don't use "intelligence" but instinct only. When they faced one problem, they have only one solution - thus, it is always symmetrical phenomenon."

Edgar, your lack of knowledge in regard to animals (and lots of other things) is extreme.

I have more questions for you: You've said that the non-existence of the universe (before it existed) was a "problem". So, when the so-called "IA" (intelligent agent, i.e 'God') allegedly created the universe the problem was solved, right? And this universe is one universe, right? So, the so-called "IA" used one solution to solve one problem, right? The "IA" and the universe are therefor "naturen", right? And since the universe includes everything in it, the universe and everything in it is "naturen" according to your 'theory', right?

I'm curious about something else. You believe that the so-called "IA" (intelligent agent, i.e. 'God') existed before the universe existed and that the "IA" has always existed, right? If the "IA" existed before the universe existed and the "IA" always existed the "IA" obviously didn't and doesn't need the universe, which means that the "IA" didn't need to create the universe to solve a "problem". And if the "IA" existed before the universe and always existed, where did the "IA" exist? After all, the "IA" couldn't have existed in the universe before the universe existed, so it had to exist somewhere else, right? Where is that place and what do you think it's like there?

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:19   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,21:29)
   
Quote (NoName @ Oct. 11 2015,13:22)
   
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,14:09)
 

Who are you to dictate to science how it 'must' operate?
Science is doing just fine without you.
Science does not work the way you want it to.
Science does not work the way you pretend it does.

You are a lunatic.  A pathetic lunatic.

Who are you to dictate to science how it 'must' operate?
ME: I am just following how the great GIANTS in science did. When they made discoveries, they replaced the old explanations. Einstein did it, Galileo did it, Newton did it, Max Planck did it, so many...thus, I am not alone in this system.

Wrong again.
That is definitely not how it happened.
That you think it is is yet another sign of how badly educated you were, how little you know about science and the history of science.
The most relevant bit of where you've gone wrong is that none of these gentlemen, nor any scientist, declares that they've replaced prior explanations and thereby triumphed.
They did the work, they convinced others, sometimes slowly and painfully, and others came to see that what they had was better than what preceded their work.
They identified problems with existing, working, explanations (which they understood), did the work, and came up with new, better explanations.  They presented reasons why the new explanation worked, why it was better.  Note, too, that their new explanations covered what the prior accepted versions did, but did so demonstrably better and/or with wider application, wider/greater explanatory power.  They also presented what would support their work, what would falsify it, they (at least for the a last few hundred years) went through genuine peer review, they were published (again, at least for the last few hundred years, that's published, not self-published).  They did not crow or gloat about their "success", they kept working.
The difference between real scientists and you remains stark.


   
Quote
Science is doing just fine without you.
ME: No, it is not since you yourselves could witness how science could not even categorize if eating because someone is hungry is intellen or naturen! Thus, we have a problem and dilemma in science. If I did not have new discoveries to explain this simple natural phenomenon, we will never know the answer. Thus, you must be grateful to me and support me and send my name to Nobel Prize committee or any organization that could recognize my great contribution to science. OR SHUT UP!


Sheer lunacy.  The alleged distinction between 'intellen' and 'naturen' is meaningless, as are those terms.
You've made up a spurious problem based on pseudo-concepts you've also made up.
Provide a concrete example of a specific problem in current biology or Cognitive Science and provide a better explanation of it.  This requires that you show that a difficulty exists, that you understand how that difficult arises in the face of current understanding, conceptualize a difference in understanding that can be supported by experiment, reason, and logic, demonstrate that the new understanding (expressed clearly, coherently, with operational definitions and  standard terminology used in the standard meanings of the subject at hand) works, show what would falsify the new understanding, show what new predictions, new directions of research, new results are predicted by the new understanding, convince qualified others (to wit, scientists in the field under investigation) that you are on to something, write it up (properly), submit it for peer review, see it published, keep working, defend the work against criticisms raised against it, always discussing and arguing in good faith, etc.
None of which apply to what you've done.
So it remains true that science is doing just fine without you.
Science doesn't even know you exist.
   
Quote
Science does not work the way you want it to.
ME: As I had told you that it is not I that violate that. Science is progressing in where the old explanations are being replaced with new explanations. And my new discoveries are all new explanations. Deal with them! or SHUT UP!

Precisely the problem.  This is not how science is done.
See above.
Get a qualified person to sit down and explain it to you if necessary.  Get training in the history of science.  Get training in the work of science.  Get training in the scientific disciplines you mistakenly believe you are working in.
Do the work.
Scientists do not  tell critics to "SHUT UP", least of all when they are trying to get new ideas, new discoveries, recognized and accepted.
That's not how science is done.
You wish it were otherwise.
You lose.


   
Quote
Science does not work the way you pretend it does.
ME: Science is actually what I've been doing. I attempted peer-review. The peer-reviewers were dumb. I am attempting Adversarial Review, they are also dumb. I wrote science books but the critics are poorer than me that they could not afford USD 4.50 for my single book but they could afford paying porn sites, probably...LOL! I am so serious but my critics are not! I have replacements for science but my critics have only religious rants! THUS, I am doing science and my critics are doing nothing!

In other words,  you tried peer review but didn't like the results.  You haven't been able to convince anyone that you have anything, so you insult them.
And at the end of the day, you simply declare that you are doing science, really and truly.  Despite the simple and obvious fact that you have done no science at all.
What problem are you attempting to address?  Why is it a problem?
What work have you done to understand the problem from  the current perspective?
What work have you done to validate your 'new insights'?
What work have you done to attempt to falsify your work?
Etc.
You are not doing science.  You can't even figure out how to use the quote and editor functions on this board.
No matter how hard you stamp your little feet no matter how loud you shout, you have nothing but foot-stomping and assertions.  And those aren't science.  Yet they are all you have.


   
Quote
Thus, SHUT UP if you have nothing to offer in science.

What I have to offer science is what every sane rational interested individual has to offer science -- consideration of the materials at hand and reasoned acceptance or questions.
That you can only scream "SHUT UP!" to reasoned and reasonable questions about your work shows you are not doing science.
And prove that my subsequent remarks are correct.

Quote
You are a lunatic.  A pathetic lunatic.
ME: If my science books have only life, they will slap your face for not reading and see for yourselves that I have science! LOL!

Your "science books" are vanity publishing at its worst.

Science is not a contest of 'who published the most'.
Self-publishing your work and asserting that  because you've published books that you've labeled 'science' means that you are doing science is pathetic lunacy.
Exactly as all of us here have pointed out.
Your response is precisely what one would expect from a lunatic.  And precisely not what one would expect from anyone with the faintest understanding of the process and products of science.

You've got nothing.

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:27   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 12 2015,03:29)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 10 2015,00:43)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 09 2015,21:22)
WHS Jr. appears to have a thing for apologetics and intelligent design creationism, judging from his other reviews. There's nothing to indicate that WHS Jr. brings any scientific acumen to the table.

I've already told you that I don't care anybody, OK? I will only care if you bring one experiment showing that I am wrong. Thus, I will surely care.

Thus, I have the best science and you have religion only.

Irrelevancy (I didn't say Edgar cared about WHS Jr.), irrelevancy (one can be shown wrong in many other ways than by experiment), arguing from facts not in evidence ("best science"?), and ignorance (Edgar, like many others responding to me, has no clue what my stances are).

Edgar can "agree" with WHS Jr. all he likes, but the fact remains that endorsement by WHS Jr. appears to have little merit based upon WHS Jr.'s other review history. Edgar need not care about that; I and others are doing fine making our own assessments of the rigor of any and all positive notices of Edgar's work; it isn't something that requires Edgar's validation.

As I said that I don't care whoever they are. I only care if one person has commented with experiment in his hand, then, I will be very attentive to that person.

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:40   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 12 2015,14:27)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 12 2015,03:29)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 10 2015,00:43)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 09 2015,21:22)
WHS Jr. appears to have a thing for apologetics and intelligent design creationism, judging from his other reviews. There's nothing to indicate that WHS Jr. brings any scientific acumen to the table.

I've already told you that I don't care anybody, OK? I will only care if you bring one experiment showing that I am wrong. Thus, I will surely care.

Thus, I have the best science and you have religion only.

Irrelevancy (I didn't say Edgar cared about WHS Jr.), irrelevancy (one can be shown wrong in many other ways than by experiment), arguing from facts not in evidence ("best science"?), and ignorance (Edgar, like many others responding to me, has no clue what my stances are).

Edgar can "agree" with WHS Jr. all he likes, but the fact remains that endorsement by WHS Jr. appears to have little merit based upon WHS Jr.'s other review history. Edgar need not care about that; I and others are doing fine making our own assessments of the rigor of any and all positive notices of Edgar's work; it isn't something that requires Edgar's validation.

As I said that I don't care whoever they are. I only care if one person has commented with experiment in his hand, then, I will be very attentive to that person.

And you've been told time and again to provide that experiment.
If you were actually doing science, it should be falsifiable, so you should be able to provide with an experiment to test your "theory".

We can't disprove your shit with an experiment because that experiment doesn't exist, you don't even make testable predictions, hence, it's not science!

And stop littering Sandwalk now fucking loonie

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:41   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 12 2015,07:19)
[quote=MrIntelligentDesign,Oct. 11 2015,21:29]  standing of the process and products of science.

You are becoming crazy, like dazz! lol!

1, About Peer-Review. I don't care about the peer-reviewers since they did not understand my new discoveries. If you want to see the documentary, I've written a book about this and you can see the e-mails that we had made..and see for yourself! You had never seen my manuscripts! LOL!

2. About science books. Yes. If your science is really correct and if you have a nerve or confidence to say that I am wrong and you are right, you should write book about that and publish it. But of course, you must include at least one experiment showing that your version of "intelligence" is right! BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA of the topic of intelligence and you rant a lot!

LOL!

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:51   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 12 2015,14:41)
[quote=NoName,Oct. 12 2015,07:19]
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,21:29)
 standing of the process and products of science.

You are becoming crazy, like dazz! lol!

1, About Peer-Review. I don't care about the peer-reviewers since they did not understand my new discoveries. If you want to see the documentary, I've written a book about this and you can see the e-mails that we had made..and see for yourself! You had never seen my manuscripts! LOL!

2. About science books. Yes. If your science is really correct and if you have a nerve or confidence to say that I am wrong and you are right, you should write book about that and publish it. But of course, you must include at least one experiment showing that your version of "intelligence" is right! BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA of the topic of intelligence and you rant a lot!

LOL!

How about this "experiment"?

Problem: Drop an egg and keep it from breaking.

Solution: Put ONE piece of rag below.

Result: The egg doesn't break

You run this same "experiment" and you concluded that because you were "intellen" and you found a solution with more that one paper tissue, then multiple solutions implied "intellen"

I run the same experiment and I concluded the opposite: that one solution is "intellen"

Hence, you are disproved with your own "experiment"

Can you take down your books now please? Thank you

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:54   

Quote (The whole truth @ Oct. 12 2015,07:08)
Here is a thread at talkrational.org in which Edgar said:

"...you can see that bonobo, orangutan, chimps, and the likes don't use "intelligence" but instinct only. When they faced one problem, they have only one solution - thus, it is always symmetrical phenomenon."

Edgar, your lack of knowledge in regard to animals (and lots of other things) is extreme.

I have more questions for you: You've said that the non-existence of the universe (before it existed) was a "problem". So, when the so-called "IA" (intelligent agent, i.e 'God') allegedly created the universe the problem was solved, right? And this universe is one universe, right? So, the so-called "IA" used one solution to solve one problem, right? The "IA" and the universe are therefor "naturen", right? And since the universe includes everything in it, the universe and everything in it is "naturen" according to your 'theory', right?

I'm curious about something else. You believe that the so-called "IA" (intelligent agent, i.e. 'God') existed before the universe existed and that the "IA" has always existed, right? If the "IA" existed before the universe existed and the "IA" always existed the "IA" obviously didn't and doesn't need the universe, which means that the "IA" didn't need to create the universe to solve a "problem". And if the "IA" existed before the universe and always existed, where did the "IA" exist? After all, the "IA" couldn't have existed in the universe before the universe existed, so it had to exist somewhere else, right? Where is that place and what do you think it's like there?

You have a good post and questions.

Yes, I mean that animals are only doing the instinct ways to do...more problems will mean more solutions. One problem will mean one solution..they are all animals and they are not humans.

So far, the only known observable physical universe is ours.

And if the "IA" existed before the universe and always existed, [b]where did the "IA" exist? [/B]
ME: Intelligence predicts so that any X could exist, X must have an asymmetrical phenomenon for origin.

non-existence:existence

is a typical asymmetrical phenomenon.

But if we translate that to "physical" reality, it will look like this

non-physical:physical

Thus, since the universe is physical, the IA, aka God, must had come from non-physical since that IA cannot design a physical universe without a non-physical reality...

Thus, that IA exists in the non-physical universe, that is how intelligence predicts it.



Where is that place and what do you think it's like there? ME: Non-physical universe  or...Heaven?? or Spiritual Realm?? I don't know the term...but it must be non-physical

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 12 2015,07:58   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 12 2015,07:51)
[quote=MrIntelligentDesign,Oct. 12 2015,14:41]
Quote (NoName @ Oct. 12 2015,07:19)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 11 2015,21:29)
 standing of the process and products of science.

You are becoming crazy, like dazz! lol!

1, About Peer-Review. I don't care about the peer-reviewers since they did not understand my new discoveries. If you want to see the documentary, I've written a book about this and you can see the e-mails that we had made..and see for yourself! You had never seen my manuscripts! LOL!

2. About science books. Yes. If your science is really correct and if you have a nerve or confidence to say that I am wrong and you are right, you should write book about that and publish it. But of course, you must include at least one experiment showing that your version of "intelligence" is right! BUT YOU HAVE NO IDEA of the topic of intelligence and you rant a lot!

LOL!

How about this "experiment"?

Problem: Drop an egg and keep it from breaking.

Solution: Put ONE piece of rag below.

Result: The egg doesn't break

You run this same "experiment" and you concluded that because you were "intellen" and you found a solution with more that one paper tissue, then multiple solutions implied "intellen"

I run the same experiment and I concluded the opposite: that one solution is "intellen"

Hence, you are disproved with your own "experiment"

Can you take down your books now please? Thank you

Good!


But that experiment had violated the rules of nature, the very nature that we've been talking to: eat and hungry.

Hungry is problem, eat is solution ...symmetry

egg is problem...rag is solution...symmetry...thus, you made just an instinct and not intelligence...

Thus, I will never delete all my science books!

  
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