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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,05:15   

Quote
God is powerful enough to combine apparent contradictions in his person.  He is three, yet he is only one.  He is both immanent and transcendent.  He is sovereign, omniscient, omnipotent; yet despite the evil that exists in the universe he created, he is also omni-benevolent.  It never ceases to amaze me that skeptics are surprised when they are unable to fit God into neat human categories.  But if we could understand God completely, would we not be gods ourselves?  I know I am no god, so I am unsurprised to find that I cannot comprehend God in his fullness or understand fully how such contradictions can be combined in him.  Nevertheless, I am quite certain they are.


What a load of irrational shit.






--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,06:21   

Quote (The whole truth @ July 23 2012,12:10)
Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 23 2012,01:47)
 
Quote (keiths @ July 23 2012,01:08)
This is pitiful.  Barry "Law of Non-Contradiction" Arrington suddenly decides that contradictions are a-ok after all... as long as you're talking about God:
   
Quote
God is powerful enough to combine apparent contradictions in his person.  He is three, yet he is only one.  He is both immanent and transcendent.  He is sovereign, omniscient, omnipotent; yet despite the evil that exists in the universe he created, he is also omni-benevolent.  It never ceases to amaze me that skeptics are surprised when they are unable to fit God into neat human categories.  But if we could understand God completely, would we not be gods ourselves?  I know I am no god, so I am unsurprised to find that I cannot comprehend God in his fullness or understand fully how such contradictions can be combined in him.  Nevertheless, I am quite certain they are.

That post is a textbook example of how faith addles the mind.

Barry, ban yourself.

"Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi".
It's knitted in their sweaters and embroidered in their handkerchiefs.

And 'pia fraus' should be tattooed on their foreheads.

Are you suggesting a religious false miracle?

KF (k.e..Waves)  what say you?

Now let’s get to the difficult subject of Adam and his rib.

Or for that matter Mary not being the mother of God.

What is ID's position on the Higgs's Boson, could that explain the lack of a very expensive large Hardron collider buried under the French Swiss border devoted to the theory of instant human flesh from dirt?

No?

Has a detector not yet been invented?

Has the theory not been fully developed?

Has the mathmatics only been published by a Sunday sck0000l teacher on sabatical from a spare rib barbeque joint on the the outskirts of the south Texas coastal town;  Corpus Christi now en route to Iowa ?

The world's press awaits.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,06:26   

Quote (The whole truth @ July 23 2012,13:15)
Quote
God is powerful enough to combine apparent contradictions in his person.  He is three, yet he is only one.  He is both immanent and transcendent.  He is sovereign, omniscient, omnipotent; yet despite the evil that exists in the universe he created, he is also omni-benevolent.  It never ceases to amaze me that skeptics are surprised when they are unable to fit God into neat human categories.  But if we could understand God completely, would we not be gods ourselves?  I know I am no god, so I am unsurprised to find that I cannot comprehend God in his fullness or understand fully how such contradictions can be combined in him.  Nevertheless, I am quite certain they are.


What a load of irrational shit.





If God really existed He would get his great big fat cheesy ass on this blog and tell those pizzle dicks to put up or shut up.

Oh wait a minute .......he's omnipotent ........that means i'm God.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,06:31   

Quote (keiths @ July 23 2012,01:08)
This is pitiful.  Barry "Law of Non-Contradiction" Arrington suddenly decides that contradictions are a-ok after all... as long as you're talking about God:
Quote
God is powerful enough to combine apparent contradictions in his person.  He is three, yet he is only one.  He is both immanent and transcendent.  He is sovereign, omniscient, omnipotent; yet despite the evil that exists in the universe he created, he is also omni-benevolent.  It never ceases to amaze me that skeptics are surprised when they are unable to fit God into neat human categories.  But if we could understand God completely, would we not be gods ourselves?  I know I am no god, so I am unsurprised to find that I cannot comprehend God in his fullness or understand fully how such contradictions can be combined in him.  Nevertheless, I am quite certain they are.

That post is a textbook example of how faith addles the mind.

Barry, ban yourself.

I think he'd ban God instead.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,06:51   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 21 2012,04:18)
   
Quote (BillB @ July 21 2012,01:45)
Anyone care to place bets on whick UD regular will be first to blame the cinema shootings on Darwin?

It will be someone who can write a nice No True Scotsman script accounting for the fact that the shooter was a churchgoing Christian. So my bet is on KF.

ETA: I feel deeply sorry for the victims and their friends and families.

KF:
   
Quote
“He wasn’t an extrovert at all. If there was any conversation, it would be because I initiated it, not because he did,” said Jerald Borgie, senior pastor of Penasquitos Lutheran Church. Borgie said he never saw the suspect mingle with others his age at church.

Italics by KF
   
Quote
If you have a bright, somewhat shy academically inclined kid of a family in your church, who is pursuing university studies for an advanced degree, it would be reasonable that a pastor would try to keep in touch. That suggests that the lack of interaction basically since Holmes went off to college was probably because the young man drifted from church involvement, which was already inadequate

   
Quote
He also probably had very little social and counselling support, in a context where a solid line to a good pastor, priest or Rabbi would be worth its weight in gold.

Quote
Multiply that by the evolutionary materialistic scientism milieu of neuroscience and the top candidate explanation is that this young man was moving to the sort of worldview that dominates this field and similar fields.



Told you so.  ;-)

UD link

ETA last quote

Edited by Kattarina98 on July 23 2012,07:01

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,06:51   

Quote
What do you say you lying windbag, are you ready to rumble in a court of law?

Attaboy, knows how to throw a glove...


Edited by Quack on July 23 2012,06:58

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Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,07:37   

Does anyone seriously doubt that the theater shooter is mentally ill? Schizophrenic or organic, as in tumor?

I hesitate to say this, but I have a nephew whose life history paralles this guy's, minus the shooting. I was once a counselor in children's protective services, and ran into several bright young people who had successful childhoods and college careers, only to have their lives destroyed by schizophrenia.

Violence is rare, but paranoia and gun collecting are not rare.

This is the cruelest disease.

Edited for typos. Posted on a tablet.

Edited by midwifetoad on July 23 2012,07:39

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
BillB



Posts: 388
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,07:51   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 23 2012,12:51)
Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 21 2012,04:18)
     
Quote (BillB @ July 21 2012,01:45)
Anyone care to place bets on whick UD regular will be first to blame the cinema shootings on Darwin?

It will be someone who can write a nice No True Scotsman script accounting for the fact that the shooter was a churchgoing Christian. So my bet is on KF.

ETA: I feel deeply sorry for the victims and their friends and families.

KF:
     
Quote
“He wasn’t an extrovert at all. If there was any conversation, it would be because I initiated it, not because he did,” said Jerald Borgie, senior pastor of Penasquitos Lutheran Church. Borgie said he never saw the suspect mingle with others his age at church.

Italics by KF
     
Quote
If you have a bright, somewhat shy academically inclined kid of a family in your church, who is pursuing university studies for an advanced degree, it would be reasonable that a pastor would try to keep in touch. That suggests that the lack of interaction basically since Holmes went off to college was probably because the young man drifted from church involvement, which was already inadequate

     
Quote
He also probably had very little social and counselling support, in a context where a solid line to a good pastor, priest or Rabbi would be worth its weight in gold.

 
Quote
Multiply that by the evolutionary materialistic scientism milieu of neuroscience and the top candidate explanation is that this young man was moving to the sort of worldview that dominates this field and similar fields.



Told you so.  ;-)

UD link

ETA last quote

KF:  
Quote
I would normally recommend a Master’s programme for at least a year, then an upgrade to a PhD if there is some showing of the ability.


You can recommend all you like KF but you don't have the qualifications, training or work experience for your recommendations about academic training to actually mean anything.

Quote
Multiply that by the evolutionary materialistic scientism milieu of neuroscience and the top candidate explanation is that this young man was moving to the sort of worldview that dominates this field and similar fields. Which is the expected ideology. And indeed, the bright kid from church not prepared for the issues and rhetoric of the college campus going off to college with the Bible on the top of his clothes in his suitcase and coming back home with it under the bottom — or outright dumping it across his first year — is a stock story.


So is that based on your years of experience in academic life KF, or are you just making it up again?

  
BillB



Posts: 388
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,08:09   

Quote (BillB @ July 23 2012,13:51)
Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 23 2012,12:51)
 
Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 21 2012,04:18)
     
Quote (BillB @ July 21 2012,01:45)
Anyone care to place bets on whick UD regular will be first to blame the cinema shootings on Darwin?

It will be someone who can write a nice No True Scotsman script accounting for the fact that the shooter was a churchgoing Christian. So my bet is on KF.

ETA: I feel deeply sorry for the victims and their friends and families.

KF:
     
Quote
“He wasn’t an extrovert at all. If there was any conversation, it would be because I initiated it, not because he did,” said Jerald Borgie, senior pastor of Penasquitos Lutheran Church. Borgie said he never saw the suspect mingle with others his age at church.

Italics by KF
     
Quote
If you have a bright, somewhat shy academically inclined kid of a family in your church, who is pursuing university studies for an advanced degree, it would be reasonable that a pastor would try to keep in touch. That suggests that the lack of interaction basically since Holmes went off to college was probably because the young man drifted from church involvement, which was already inadequate

     
Quote
He also probably had very little social and counselling support, in a context where a solid line to a good pastor, priest or Rabbi would be worth its weight in gold.

 
Quote
Multiply that by the evolutionary materialistic scientism milieu of neuroscience and the top candidate explanation is that this young man was moving to the sort of worldview that dominates this field and similar fields.



Told you so.  ;-)

UD link

ETA last quote

KF:  
Quote
I would normally recommend a Master’s programme for at least a year, then an upgrade to a PhD if there is some showing of the ability.


You can recommend all you like KF but you don't have the qualifications, training or work experience for your recommendations about academic training to actually mean anything.

 
Quote
Multiply that by the evolutionary materialistic scientism milieu of neuroscience and the top candidate explanation is that this young man was moving to the sort of worldview that dominates this field and similar fields. Which is the expected ideology. And indeed, the bright kid from church not prepared for the issues and rhetoric of the college campus going off to college with the Bible on the top of his clothes in his suitcase and coming back home with it under the bottom — or outright dumping it across his first year — is a stock story.


So is that based on your years of experience in academic life KF, or are you just making it up again?

KF, (because I know your watching)

It tends to be the case that people who dress up in costume in order to go off on a killing spree either have some severe mental health problems or have experienced a major psychological trauma.

Just being shy and going to university doesn't tend to cause killing sprees, as evidenced by the almost total majority of students not engaging in killing sprees.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,09:07   

Hey KF,

I was very, very shy growing up.  I was picked on by people in and out of church.  I am extremely smart.

Oh and I collect guns and have several thousand rounds of ammunition.

I also thing that evolution is not only a valid explanation, but correct and that your religion of Intelligent Design is full of crap.

Shockingly, I have never gone on a killing spree.  

Perhaps, you ought to examine your hypothesis for flaws.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
BillB



Posts: 388
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,09:19   

Quote (OgreMkV @ July 23 2012,15:07)
Hey KF,

I was very, very shy growing up.  I was picked on by people in and out of church.  I am extremely smart.

Oh and I collect guns and have several thousand rounds of ammunition.

I also thing that evolution is not only a valid explanation, but correct and that your religion of Intelligent Design is full of crap.

Shockingly, I have never gone on a killing spree.  

Perhaps, you ought to examine your hypothesis for flaws.

Me to - but without the guns.

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,09:22   

Quote (midwifetoad @ July 23 2012,07:37)
Does anyone seriously doubt that the theater shooter is mentally ill? Schizophrenic or organic, as in tumor?

I do. Look at Breivik - I don't think there's evidence of insanity, even if have difficulty understanding how he came to the decision to commit the murders he did.

Blaming mental illness stigmatises it just as much as blaming Darwinism (or indeed bowling) is meant to. Let's wait to see what he says, and what's decided about his state of mind and motivations.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,09:37   

Blame and causation are complicated. There are millions of schizophrenic people who are harmless. If I had to guess I would guess the percentage of murderers is lower among schziophrenics than in the general population.

But in cases like this, mental illness is pretty likely. I'm going to be shocked if he has a well organized political agenda.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,09:45   

Quote (midwifetoad @ July 23 2012,07:37)
Blame and causation are complicated. There are millions of schizophrenic people who are harmless. If I had to guess I would guess the percentage of murderers is lower among schziophrenics than in the general population.

But in cases like this, mental illness is pretty likely. I'm going to be shocked if he has a well organized political agenda.

My brother has been schizophrenic since late adolescence.  The only violence I've heard of is some household item damage, mainly in an attempt to make the voices go away.  Apparently it's common for the afflicted to hear voices telling them to do things that they know are wrong.  Also, a little booze can help some individuals.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,09:51   

I'm one of those materialists that creationists rant about. I think behavioral tendencies form distributions just like height and weight.

There seem to be people  born with a diminished capacity for empathy and compassion. And the reverse. These things fall on a spectrum.

But I haven't yet seen anything in this shooter's history to indicate he tortured cats as a child, or anything like that. Nor does he have any obvious history of political affiliation.

Ergo, the way to bet is organic impairment.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,09:57   

Quote (midwifetoad @ July 23 2012,09:51)
I'm one of those materialists that creationists rant about. I think behavioral tendencies form distributions just like height and weight.

There seem to be people  born with a diminished capacity for empathy and compassion. And the reverse. These things fall on a spectrum.

But I haven't yet seen anything in this shooter's history to indicate he tortured cats as a child, or anything like that. Nor does he have any obvious history of political affiliation.

Ergo, the way to bet is organic impairment.

I wouldn't bet against this one.

From the accounts I've heard, he could have done so much more damage than he actually did.

And that's the thing that always gets me.  It doesn't take much mental capacity to realize that there are many ways of really doing damage on a scale that makes this guy look like a schoolyard fight.  It also doesn't take much to come up with ways that would enhance one's ability to escape without being arrested... should one choose to think along these lines... not that I would know.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,10:14   

My nephew made it through college with high honors. It wasn't until graduate school and the prospect of marriage that he snapped.

He had symptoms before. Paranoia. He shared a college apartment with my son and scared the shit out of him with his collection of knives and guns.

But he is entirely in self defence mode. He is afraid rather than angry. It strikes me that I know of no study of schizophrenics that treats them as human beings on a spectrum. I would like to see some statistics on their political and religious opinions, collected by someone who can earn their trust.

I know from personal experience that it is difficult to have a straight conversation with someone you think is crazy, but I think it would be useful research.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
BillB



Posts: 388
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,10:16   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 23 2012,15:22)
Blaming mental illness stigmatises it just as much as blaming Darwinism (or indeed bowling) is meant to. Let's wait to see what he says, and what's decided about his state of mind and motivations.

Fair point, humbly accepted :)

  
Mark Frank



Posts: 46
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,10:58   

Quote (midwifetoad @ July 23 2012,09:37)
If I had to guess I would guess the percentage of murderers is lower among schziophrenics than in the general population.


It is higher among schizophrenics - but that is because a higher proportion of schizophrenics use drugs.  They are no more violent than other drug users.

Here is a recent metastudy

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,11:31   

I certainly am willing to consider expert opinion after he is evaluated, but despite what seems like a rash of mass murders, you are more likely to die from being struck by lightening. This is highly unusual behavior.

Unlike murders for money or revenge or politics, or even for entertainment. There seem to be subcultures -- gangs and such -- that amuse themselves with meyhem, but I haven't seen the signs of that here.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,14:07   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 23 2012,06:31)
I think he'd ban God instead.

Well, look at how the bible describes "Mr. Omnipotent". I mean...there's a good chunk of the OT demonstrating some serious incivility on God's part. And then there's the whole arrogant snarkfesty Jesus getting in Satan's face on the mountain top and like totally dissing the dude's offers. If that isn't against the UD policy, I don't know what is...

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,14:33   

I didn't start shooting people when I became a "Darwinist," but I must confess that I did start thinking in a paranoid manner, blaming creationists for Nazism, social problems, and for controlling speech and illicitly imposing itself onto the educational system.  I made up strawman versions of ID, and claimed that complexity alone indicates that evolution happened, without providing explicit evidence that is expected from evolutionary mechanisms.  I credited the pathetic "reasons" that Klebold and Harris, and also Jeffrey Dahmer, used for "explanation" as legitimate, just so long as it discredited creationism.

I complained that the entire collection of thousands of pages of productive ID output was based completely upon ideological prejudice, that converging lines of ID evidence were meaningless based upon some faked numbers.  I claimed that ID was due entirely to atheism, and that religious ID proponents were merely lackeys sucking up to the atheists.  I demanded explanations from ID, without providing any (real, that is, beyond mere complexity) evidence for evolution.

So I must admit that I acted quite sociopathically due to my "Darwinism."

Oh no, that was Barry, the Frill, and the rest of the UD sad sacks (with the obvious word changes), propping up pseudoscience.  But none of that would have occurred if evolutionary theory had never existed, so clearly it's the fault "Darwinism."

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,15:03   

Hi Glen,
you do realise that your post is a treasure trove for KF to quote-mine?    ;-)

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,17:30   

PaV:  
Quote

I’ve read a whole host of books on population genetics. Nowhere have I seen anything that comes remotely close to a viable mechanism for large speciation events.

Hmm. Tell me PaV, what is ID's "viable mechanism for large speciation events" exactly?
Quote

Yes, using certain assumptions, you can assume a certain linkage between various lineages and such. I suspect there’s some validity, and, hence, utility to such methods—but probably more limited that evolutionary biologists would think.


Wtf? He says he knows nothing about it (suspects it's validity) and then pronounces that an entire field has got it wrong and he knows better?

Wow. The hubris!

What mental defence will he use when in 20 years ID still is nothing but Joe and KF and BA77 in the same circle jerk?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,17:42   

20years is nothing. I've been watching scientific creationism since 1970 and Armstrong's Plain Truth magazine. Before that  I became aware of the problem in 1956 when Life Magazine did a series on The Epic of Man.

I was 11 and taking confirmation classes. At the time I suspected fossils were a trick. I don't know where that came from. My family didn't dicsuss theology except to tell preacher jokes.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
REC



Posts: 638
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,18:04   

O'Leary....where to begin....

Regarding the Carl Zimmer saga, she says:
 
Quote
Well, a reader writes to say, here is where the idea might have originated:

This 1991 Pub Med paper:


Which:
1a) The linked paper isn't from 1991. It is from 2001.
1b) Isn't the paper she's posted the abstract of
2) The posted abstract undermines Klinghoffer's claim
3) The linked paper supports human evolution, and has a population size in the tens of thousands circa the last common ancestor with chimps.

Own goal on a neighboring field?

Edited by REC on July 23 2012,18:08

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,18:23   

What's a "large" speciation event?

I thought speciation just meant that two population go separate ways and diverge from each other - there's no size parameter in that. (Also no need to presume a distinct mechanism for it to happen.)

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,18:49   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 23 2012,04:51)
Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 21 2012,04:18)
     
Quote (BillB @ July 21 2012,01:45)
Anyone care to place bets on whick UD regular will be first to blame the cinema shootings on Darwin?

It will be someone who can write a nice No True Scotsman script accounting for the fact that the shooter was a churchgoing Christian. So my bet is on KF.

ETA: I feel deeply sorry for the victims and their friends and families.

KF:
     
Quote
“He wasn’t an extrovert at all. If there was any conversation, it would be because I initiated it, not because he did,” said Jerald Borgie, senior pastor of Penasquitos Lutheran Church. Borgie said he never saw the suspect mingle with others his age at church.

Italics by KF
     
Quote
If you have a bright, somewhat shy academically inclined kid of a family in your church, who is pursuing university studies for an advanced degree, it would be reasonable that a pastor would try to keep in touch. That suggests that the lack of interaction basically since Holmes went off to college was probably because the young man drifted from church involvement, which was already inadequate

     
Quote
He also probably had very little social and counselling support, in a context where a solid line to a good pastor, priest or Rabbi would be worth its weight in gold.

 
Quote
Multiply that by the evolutionary materialistic scientism milieu of neuroscience and the top candidate explanation is that this young man was moving to the sort of worldview that dominates this field and similar fields.



Told you so.  ;-)

UD link

ETA last quote

Yep, you were right, but can I share in the prize because I got it right that gordo would blame evolutionary materialism? ;)

By the way, what is the prize?  :D

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,19:04   

Regarding who or what gordo blames, he of course won't accept the fact that the killer attended a church for a long time and has a mother who is obviously very religious and when it comes to the 'self worth' gordo brought up nothing could be more destructive to self worth than having it pounded into you (especially from early childhood onward) that you're a dirty worthless evil sinner, and are gripped by "Satan", and will burn in hell for eternity unless you get down on your knees and worship some so-called god that is allegedly the only redeemer and the only way to goodness, salvation, and worth.  

One of the fundamental things about the christian crap gordo pushes is that it preys on and amplifies peoples' lack of self worth. The whole 'look outside yourself', to "God", for guidance, morals, redemption, salvation, and worth is a profound example of christianity (and many other religions) brainwashing people into believing that they are powerless, worthless, amoral slaves that must blindly serve and worship some so-called all powerful "God" if they want to be "saved" from their evil, sinful, intrinsic worthlessness.

The entire premise of christanity is based on the worthlessness of people: "God" creates people (slaves) to serve and worship him. "God" kills people and destroys entire cultures because they don't meet his demands and are therefor worthless to him. "God" floods the entire planet to wipe out everyone and everything that has no worth to him. "God" punishes and kills whomever and whatever has no worth to him, or commands his obedient, slaves to do it for him, and even sends the worthless 'souls' of people who don't kiss his tyrannical ass to suffer in hell for eternity. "God" regularly reminds people that they are worthless to him unless they blindly worship him, and if they don't like being his obedient worthless, 'owned' slaves he will punish or kill them or their worthless first born or other children or all of their descendants, or wipe out their crops/cities/livestock, etc. "Jesus" is sent by "God" to remind people that they had better be obedient slaves to "God", or else, and to "die"* for the evil, sinful worthlessness of the human race that his sky daddy specially created to be worthless slaves to him.  

christianity, like many other religions, is abuse.


*According to christians, "Jesus" is the son of "God" but also IS "God", so how can he "die"? An all powerful, perpetual "God" can't "die", and especially one that was allegedly up and walking around a short time after he allegedly "died".

Religion is insanity, and christianity is one of the most insane, abusive, and tyrannical religious cults that have ever been conjured up.

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2012,19:35   

I hate to keep up what must appear to be a reverse Gill, but my brother has been a fundamentalist for most of his adult life. (And a psychiatrist!) He pretty much disowned his children for apostasy. Has rarely spoken to them since they were in high school.

I suspect when the favorite, nicest, smartest and most promising son developed adolescent onset schizophrenia, it snapped something in my brother's mind. Maybe God was punishing him in the way calculated to be most painful and ironic. I don't know. He doesn't talk to me either.

There's something about an illness that so obviously and totally deprives a person of rationality that must rankle religious people. I'm sure it hurts everyone, but it must be particularly painful to people who think the mind is tucked away in some non-physical safehouse. If you are a dualist, how can you cope with the evidence that the mind itself is damaged?

Edited by midwifetoad on July 23 2012,19:36

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
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