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  Topic: MrIntelligentDesign, Edgar Postrado's new Intelligent Design< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,15:28   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,16:11)
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 05 2015,12:19)
Quote
Origin of Species. Let us make that to ORIGIN of X...

Is the origin of X always, universally follows Darwin's idea?


That is uniquely awful, on par with any of the most stupid things ever said by any IDist.  And you are complaining about somebody else's logic???  And you want us to take you seriously?

You just don't understand why and how that is why you are complaining to me.

That's your easy out for everything isn't it?

The evidence is quite clear that you are the one who does not understand.

Your words are ridiculous, and N.Wells is quite properly ridiculing them.
That you don't understand why is your problem.

It is also a straight-forward statement of something that no one has ever suggested was the case -- no one believes that Darwin's ideas are responsible for all origins.
Yet that is what you have asserted as a sensible question.
You are a moron.

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,15:30   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 05 2015,15:24)
[quote=MrIntelligentDesign,Oct. 05 2015,16:09]
Then you are incredibly mistaken.
Existence is uncaused.
If not, then you have something that does not exist but which has the ability to cause.   This is not merely incoherent, it is contradictory.
It is literally insane.  Incoherent at best, but generally insane.
There is no explanation possible for existence as such.
There is no explanation needed for existence as such.
Existence is simply an unavoidable brute fact.

Regardless of the presence of absence of a "universal pattern", existence is not a thing amongst things.  It is not "an X".

Now, for any given thing that exists, there may or may not be a cause for its existence.
You have not supplied anything remotely resembling a universal principle for any existing thing whatsoever.
Worse, if you had, it would be useless.  It would be so generalized as to provide no explanatory power.  It would have no application, no use, not utility.
Nothing that we know about the cause of tides is informative for what we know about the cause of Scarlett O'Hara.  And vice versa.
Nothing we know about the cause of Smallpox is of any use in determining the cause of pH.
Nothing we know about the cause of continental drift is of any use in determining the cause of oxidation-reduction reactions.

Huh??? You said that "...Existence is uncaused." How do you know? That is not only an assertion but a conclusion!

How do you know?

Now, let us smash that conclusion.

Existence is uncaused. OK, I got it.

X is an existence.

X is PC, then, X has no cause and had just popped up by itself!

LOL!!

WTF! Is that science??

Oh my goodness! Oh Darwin, f--k you! What had you done to your supporters! You messed their minds!

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,15:32   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,15:26)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,15:11)
Quote
naturen = X + 0


Finally!

I managed to apply your theory to the "X" I had in front of me

since naturen = X + 0

then

naturen = X

or the equivalent....

X = naturen

So my "X" is naturen!

Is that right?

Yes, if you did not find X' in your X, then, your X in front of you is naturen.

I didn't find any X', because I have no clue how to

"measure the feature of your X that made your X really X after you threat your X with Xo"

and I didn't even threat it, god forbid...

What does it mean that my "X" is naturen then?
Does it mean that it's a product of some natural process?

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,15:34   

Causes happen within, not necessarily to, existence. Your thinking is only 2500 years out of date:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....outu.be

Good luck with the book.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,15:44   

[quote=MrIntelligentDesign,Oct. 05 2015,16:23]  
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 05 2015,09:04)
 
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,08:40)

No one has disputed that animals are largely driven by instincts.  However, some of them, to varying degrees, surpass instinct.  Your 1.5 ratio is indefensible: you have to get results you want by relying on trivial examples and twisting the bejesus out of everything else to force it to fit your conclusions.  Many animals are clearly capable of generating creative solutions above and beyond their instinctive programming, which is intelligence in any rational sense of the word.  Crows are a very good example.  Elephants, dolphins and chimpanzees are even better examples.  Chimpanzees notably come up with multiple solutions to problems (e.g., cracking nuts, getting termites out of termitaries, impressing females & getting sex, acquiring food from others, getting food from tricky experimental set-ups).

You have also not demonstrated that intelligence excludes instinct as a primitive form of intelligence, although your definition of intellen clearly excludes it, and it's certainly within your prerogatives to invent and define new terms.

Please, be careful in what you are posting since we are talking about science here. Science has evidence and has math.

That's hysterically funny coming from you.
You have already shown that you haven't a clue about science or math or evidence.  You also lack any clue about logic.
 
Quote
When you say and claim that "...However, some of them, to varying degrees, surpass instinct.", you are implying that you have a limits or ranges from naturen to instinct to intellen, just like what I've done!

Only by force fitting N.Wells words into your unqualified notions.

 
Quote
Where is that limit and what are the numerical value for those limits so that I could compare mine?

What's the largest positive number?
What's the largest prime?
What's the precise square root of pi?

 
Quote
...Thus, I cannot believe you and your are cementing my confidence that I have really the best science and you are deluded supporters of ToE -  worst than religious fanatics!

Only in your fantasies.
You've not been paying attention to what the ToE says nor to what we have had to say to you on this thread.
This renders anything you have to say ludicrous and wrong.
 
Quote
Now, to add further to your erroneous science, you said that "... Crows are a very good example.  Elephants, dolphins and chimpanzees are even better examples.  Chimpanzees notably come up with multiple solutions to problems (e.g., cracking nuts, getting termites out of termitaries, impressing females & getting sex, acquiring food from others, getting food from tricky experimental set-ups)."

If you are an English speaking person or knows English, you can see that you are using an ADJECTIVES that could be quantified.

Many things could be quantified.  How do you quantify beauty, love, the precise point where purple becomes red or blue?  You are blinded by your overemphasis on math.
One shudders to think how bad your math skills are.
 
Quote
Which means, they have limits.. But ToE has none for its 160 years of existence!

Thus, oh please, SHUT UP or PUT UP!

You first.
You've proven you do not understand the ToE.
You have not properly presented, defined, or provided evidence for any of your claims.
You are making up words, making up new meanings for words, abusing concepts, and pretending that your fantasies are evidence, are meaningful, and are applicable to the real world.  You are wrong on all those points.

 
Quote
What if I show you a picture of a birds making nests? You think that it is intellen?

No.  You have not justified your terms nor their usage.
We simply think we see a picture of birds making nests.
We think this is animal intelligence at work.
We see a range of nest-building behavior across nature.
What more is wanted?

 
Quote
...
Where is the explanatory power of ToE now?

In is ability to show how nest building behaviors change over time.  Why?  What did you expect it to explain?

Quote
My goodness, is it hard for you to support the best science from me than science from ToE's in where there are none??

Except, of course, that you have no science.

Where is your experiment?
What are your controls?
What are the operational definition for your terms?
What logic and evidence justifies those definitions?
And those controls?
And those experiments?

What evidence do you have?
Why none.  None at all.  Only assertions, bluster, and delusions of adequacy.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,16:13   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,16:30)
[quote=NoName,Oct. 05 2015,15:24]
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,16:09)

Then you are incredibly mistaken.
Existence is uncaused.
If not, then you have something that does not exist but which has the ability to cause.   This is not merely incoherent, it is contradictory.
It is literally insane.  Incoherent at best, but generally insane.
There is no explanation possible for existence as such.
There is no explanation needed for existence as such.
Existence is simply an unavoidable brute fact.

Regardless of the presence of absence of a "universal pattern", existence is not a thing amongst things.  It is not "an X".

Now, for any given thing that exists, there may or may not be a cause for its existence.
You have not supplied anything remotely resembling a universal principle for any existing thing whatsoever.
Worse, if you had, it would be useless.  It would be so generalized as to provide no explanatory power.  It would have no application, no use, not utility.
Nothing that we know about the cause of tides is informative for what we know about the cause of Scarlett O'Hara.  And vice versa.
Nothing we know about the cause of Smallpox is of any use in determining the cause of pH.
Nothing we know about the cause of continental drift is of any use in determining the cause of oxidation-reduction reactions.

Huh??? You said that "...Existence is uncaused." How do you know? That is not only an assertion but a conclusion!

How do you know?

Now, let us smash that conclusion.

Existence is uncaused. OK, I got it.

X is an existence.

X is PC, then, X has no cause and had just popped up by itself!

LOL!!

WTF! Is that science??

Oh my goodness! Oh Darwin, f--k you! What had you done to your supporters! You messed their minds!

You are incapable of drawing fine distinctions.

Existence simply is.  Individual things exist -- and they may come into existence and pass out of existence.
You focus your efforts on individual things.  But even there you go wrong -- integers exist, and are clearly not brought into existence nor do they go out of existence.  They are not caused, they just are.

Your assertion that I am trying to claim a PC just popped into existence without cause is unsupported by anything I've said.

Science only deals with a subset of existence.  Science does not concern itself with the existence of integers or of the laws of logic or geometry or calculus.  It uses them, but they already exist, always exist, and are uncaused.

You claim to be accounting for existence as such, and you assert that anything and everything which exists has a cause.
That is not just wrong, it is insane.
What does it mean to cause the number 2?
What does it mean to cause the Law of Identity or the Law of Excluded Middle?
They just are.
Without them, there is no science.

Why do you keep bringing Darwin into the discussion?
No one here is making the claim that the ToE is the explanation for every phenomenon.  Yet you persist in acting as if we did.
You are wrong, on this as on everything.

Specific things that exist, at least a subset of those which come into existence, persist for a while, then pass out of existence, can be effects.  That is equivalent to saying that they can be caused.

So here's a little problem for you -- one you cannot deal with.
Is a cause prior to its effect, or after its effect, or simultaneous with its effect?
Think carefully before you answer.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,17:27   

Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 05 2015,09:04)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,08:40)
Quote (The whole truth @ Oct. 05 2015,08:30)
Edgar, you say that animals are not intelligent. Crows are animals. Click on the links below:

http://io9.com/the-mys....0350033

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......an_crow

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2....48....486.stm

There are many more articles and videos about crows making and using tools, and crows aren't the only animals that make and use tools. And making and/or using tools isn't the only sign of intelligence.

Do you still say that humans are intelligent but all animals are not?

I did not say that animals have no instinct. I said that animals except humans exceeds the natural phenomena and they were incorrectly labeled as "intelligence". They are just using instinct.

I've already calculated that 1 is for natural process- naturen

1 ~ 1.499999999...is for instinct but it is still naturen

So, instinct is better than natural process alone..

Thus, tell those scientists and thinkers to follow me and not their incorrect mis-interpretation and incorrect explanation of biological world.

No one has disputed that animals are largely driven by instincts.  However, some of them, to varying degrees, surpass instinct.  Your 1.5 ratio is indefensible: you have to get results you want by relying on trivial examples and twisting the bejesus out of everything else to force it to fit your conclusions.  Many animals are clearly capable of generating creative solutions above and beyond their instinctive programming, which is intelligence in any rational sense of the word.  Crows are a very good example.  Elephants, dolphins and chimpanzees are even better examples.  Chimpanzees notably come up with multiple solutions to problems (e.g., cracking nuts, getting termites out of termitaries, impressing females & getting sex, acquiring food from others, getting food from tricky experimental set-ups).

You have also not demonstrated that intelligence excludes instinct as a primitive form of intelligence, although your definition of intellen clearly excludes it, and it's certainly within your prerogatives to invent and define new terms.

Even more damning for his notions than tool use is the research that shows that some tool use in chimps, orangutans, and dolphins is cultural.  It is learned.  It is specific to those individuals who have learned it from others, and is thus confined to specific groups.  I recall one example of tool use in Orangs that is different on two sides of a river because they don't cross that river.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,17:29   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 05 2015,09:04)
So far, the very best that can be said about you is that you give off carbon dioxide so you must be good for trees.

Depending on how many books he's had printed, he may have offset even that.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,18:49   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,15:32)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,15:26)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,15:11)
 
Quote
naturen = X + 0


Finally!

I managed to apply your theory to the "X" I had in front of me

since naturen = X + 0

then

naturen = X

or the equivalent....

X = naturen

So my "X" is naturen!

Is that right?

Yes, if you did not find X' in your X, then, your X in front of you is naturen.

I didn't find any X', because I have no clue how to

"measure the feature of your X that made your X really X after you threat your X with Xo"

and I didn't even threat it, god forbid...

What does it mean that my "X" is naturen then?
Does it mean that it's a product of some natural process?

Come on Edgar, we're getting somewhere

How do I...

Quote
measure the feature of my X that made my X really X after I threat my X with Xo, even if I didn't threat my X with no Xo?


?

  
someotherguy



Posts: 398
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,19:06   

Let's say I have a rock.  Now let's say that I stand over this rock holding a baseball bat with a threatening look on my face.  The rock does nothing to respond to this threat from me.  According to this new science, can I now conclude that rock = naturen?  If so, does that mean that the rock is not a product of intelligence?

--------------
Evolander in training

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,20:37   

Re "Yes, if you did not find X' in your X, then, your X in front of you is naturen. "

Then put some clothes on that X, to avoid indecent exposure.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2015,21:24   

Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 05 2015,20:37)
Re "Yes, if you did not find X' in your X, then, your X in front of you is naturen. "

Then put some clothes on that X, to avoid indecent exposure.

Actually, I suspect an indecen X poseur.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,01:03   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Sep. 30 2015,04:58)
Quote (The whole truth @ Sep. 30 2015,06:45)
So, Edgar, tell us about the "the real intelligence and the new Intelligent Design", and don't forget to include your evidence.

Thank you for this thread.

I will make it slowly since my experience in my attempts in peer-review told me that even the reviewers were not sharp enough to understand new discoveries. How about you?

I discovered many things in science and most of them are unsolved problems but in here, I will only limit ourselves on universal and real intelligence and  new Intelligent Design <id> since I have work too and I am writing many books. I don't have a full time to reply to all of you that is why I ask you to read all my posts since they are all for you...

But I will help you to understand it. I hope that you could.


I am the Founder, Discoverer, Scientist, Researcher and Author of the new Intelligent Design <id> and the discoverer of the real "intelligence".

Well, the old ID was based on "complexity" from Darwin's original idea of eyes as "complex", hence we have "irreducible complexity" and "complex specified information" from the old ID but the new Intelligent Design <id> is using the real intelligence only that I've discovered.

Difference between the old intelligence to the new intelligence?

OK, the old intelligence talks about natural phenomenon only...not the actual intelligence. The old intelligence has 60+ researched definitions as published in arxiv.org but the new intelligence has only one definition and it covers all the probably 80+ definitions of old intelligence combined. The new definition of intelligence is also universal, which means you can use it to all X in the entire existence.

Thus, when you talk intelligence without relying/using my new discovery of the real intelligence, you are talking a natural phenomenon and not the actual intelligence, thus, you are surely wrong scientifically.

Thus, I am informing all you here that your science and understanding of reality are wrong since you have no idea of the real intelligence.

In applications, (1) how do we know if a biological cell is designed or not?

Or (2) How do you know if your car is really your car?

Or (3) how do you know if a square is not a rectangle?

If we use the explanatory power from ToE (Theory of Evolution), we will have three answers to the three questions..but for the explanatory power from new Intelligent Design <id>, we will have only one answer to all questions since, as I had claimed and said, that real intelligence is universal...

We can even answer this question: How do you know if a mountain is designed or not?..same answer universally...

or particles or sub-particles or anything...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE ADVERSARIAL REVIEW of the New Intelligent Design <id> and its new discoveries
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be fair to those who bought my science books, I will be sharing you the different content of my science books and in different approach so that all of you who are interested could be a part of this Adversarial Review of the New Intelligent Design <id> and its new discoveries. I claimed that my new discoveries are universal, obvious and yet sooooooooooo profound and sooooooo straightforward. Thus, I can give you any demonstrations and experiment to show the real intelligence.


BACKGROUND
Before the new Intelligent Design <id> had discovered the real intelligence and the universal boundary line (UBL) in the topic of origin and cause and effect, our naturalistic science had no UBL to differentiate a natural phenomenon (naturen) or natural process (naturen) to intelligently designed process or intelligently designed products (intellen). Thus, when all of the scientists were asked the question of the origin of the existence, Cosmos, universe, particles, life or everything or species, the answer is always either

“GodDidIt”

Or

“NatureDidIt”.

But if the follow up question is something like this; “How do you know that it is ‘GodDidIt’ or ‘NatureDidIt’” the normal answer for “GodDidIt” is “our holy book said it”. The normal answer for “NatureDidIt” is always a question, “If nature did not do it, which?” assuming that if there is an Agent who had designed existence, Cosmos, universe, particles, life or everything or species, a collective nature did it.

They both have answers but they have both no experiments to show that. In short, they have both assumptions and conclusions or pre-determined views. Thus, we have dilemma in science and in reality.

You can choose which camps you want.



NAILING THE BOUNDARY LINE
Here is how the new Intelligent Design <id> had discovered and settled the most difficult topic in the topic of origin.

Let us assume that you are a clerk or secretary of a company and your desk is just outside the room of your manager. The manager had asked you to give him/her “one paper clip”. So, you bring one paper clip and give it to him/her. In our human’s way of dealing things, bringing one paper clip to him/her is not an act of intelligence. It is an act of a normal phenomenon or ordinary natural phenomenon. The new Intelligent Design <id> called it “naturen”. If we put that in a simple mathematical relation, we can write like this:

One problem (P) = one solution (S) or
If the problem (P) is 1, and the solution (S) is 1, then the ratio is 1.

One paper clip divided by one paper clip will always be one.

The new Intelligent Design <id> called that ratio a SYMMETRICAL PHENOMENON.

Now, let us assume that you bring two paper clips and a stapler to the same request of bringing one paper clip. It depends on the manager, but if you prepare two paper clips and a stapler to solve the future request, the new Intelligent Design <id> called that act as an intellen, for you are not only solving one problem but you are solving one problem with three solutions.

One problem (P) = three solutions (S) or
If the problem (P) is 1, and the solution (S) is 3, then the ratio is 3.

Two paper clips + one stapler divided by one paper clip will always be three.
(I am not thinking units here, OK?)

The new Intelligent Design <id> called that ratio an ASYMMETRICAL PHENOMENON.


OK, why it is naturen? If we based our Probability Calculation and its limit (0 < P < 1), we can see that any event to occur has always a probability of 1. Which mean, any natural event or natural phenomenon or natural process will always have the ratio of 1. Both reality and probability agreed that all natural event or natural phenomenon or natural processes have always a ratio of 1.

Let us make more examples in reality:
When you are hungry (problem) for 200 grams of spaghetti and you eat 200 grams of spaghetti (solution), that is also naturen. Or drink 100 ml of soda because you are thirsty of 100 soda, that is also a naturen. My discoveries had been telling and pointing us that there are really a natural process, natural phenomenon and natural event.

OK, why it is intellen? Since we have already declared and discovered that 1 is a naturen in nature and reality, we can see that more than 1 is an intellen since that is how we based our dealing with things. FAILURE or less than 1 is not intellen, obviously.

For example:
1. Paper clip. If you bring two or more paper clips, you are assuring that the work of your manager by using paper clip is successful. Success (with double or more solutions) is always an intellen.
2. Hungry and Eat. When you eat spaghetti (X) with higher nutrients (for example) that is already considered intellen since you are assuring that your health will continue. This is “life” or “survive” for the new Intelligent Design <id>.
3. Thirsty and Drink: When you drink 100 ml soda with additional nutrients, then, you are an intellen since you are solving the problem of drinking 100 soda only with more additional healthy drink.

In the new Intelligent Design <id>, the way you solve the problem with more solutions is called a principle. A principle is a method. Only an agent that knows intelligent knows this method.


Now, from the above explanations, we can derive the universal definition of intelligence:

Do you wanna guess?

Let me share it here.

Intelligence is the principle of reinforcing an X to survive, to exist and to succeed in a certain degree of importance, and it always acts on asymmetrical phenomenon.


If we use the paper clip, we can explain it from the above definition.

If you bring two or more paper clips, you are reinforcing or supporting your solution to really give your manager a paper clip. What if you give him/her a broken paper clip and you did not have reserve? He or she will tell you that you are “STUPID!” And stupidity is not intellen. So, two are better than one in intellen. And since your work and your manager is important, you keep thinking many solutions to single situation/problem. And since two or more clips are greater than 1, then, you are just doing the asymmetrical phenomenon…a problem-solution-solution principle.

THIS IS the Holy Grail of my new discovery. After you understand this, please, contact the Nobel Prize committee and given them my name and tell them my new discovery.

If we apply that to the origin and cause and effect in Physics, Biology, Philosophy, you will surely blow your intellectual mind and say, “REALLY! That is so simple and yet profound!

Thus, help me to get my Nobel Prize in both Physics, Biology, Philosophy, Psychology, mathematics…

I will be sharing more…
___
Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of Intelligent Design <id>. So, Biological Interrelation, BiTs is unproved and un-provable. We believe it only because the only alternative is evolution, and that is unthinkable.




[I][B][/B][B]

"Success (with double or more solutions) is always an intellen."

Edgar, when animals use more than one solution, aren't the animals "intellen" by your definition?

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,01:13   

May be my sensitive nostrils only but this morning I thought I could sense a whiff of Megalomania?

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,01:24   

"In the new Intelligent Design <id>, the way you solve the problem with more solutions is called a principle. A principle is a method. Only an agent that knows intelligent knows this method."

Edgar, before this universe existed, was the non-existence of this universe a "problem"? If so, how many "solutions" did the "IA" (intelligent agent) use to solve the problem?

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,03:19   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,18:49)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,15:32)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,15:26)
 
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,15:11)
 
Quote
naturen = X + 0


Finally!

I managed to apply your theory to the "X" I had in front of me

since naturen = X + 0

then

naturen = X

or the equivalent....

X = naturen

So my "X" is naturen!

Is that right?

Yes, if you did not find X' in your X, then, your X in front of you is naturen.

I didn't find any X', because I have no clue how to

"measure the feature of your X that made your X really X after you threat your X with Xo"

and I didn't even threat it, god forbid...

What does it mean that my "X" is naturen then?
Does it mean that it's a product of some natural process?

Come on Edgar, we're getting somewhere

How do I...

Quote
measure the feature of my X that made my X really X after I threat my X with Xo, even if I didn't threat my X with no Xo?


?

No answer, I'll have to keep waiting I guess.

In the mean time... you did it again. You insist once again that everything "symmetric" is "naturen"

Gods are not "made" right? So there's no X', which means gods are naturen, like boogers and farts... only that boogers and farts can be shown empirically to exist.

Your "not-a-theory" doesn't work the way you wanted it to, buddy

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,03:59   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 05 2015,15:28)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,16:11)

You just don't understand why and how that is why you are complaining to me.

That's your easy out for everything isn't it?

The evidence is quite clear that you are the one who does not understand.

Your words are ridiculous, and N.Wells is quite properly ridiculing them.
That you don't understand why is your problem.

It is also a straight-forward statement of something that no one has ever suggested was the case -- no one believes that Darwin's ideas are responsible for all origins.
Yet that is what you have asserted as a sensible question.
You are a moron.

Once you understand my new discoveries, your eyes and ignorance will be opened to the new reality...

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:01   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,15:32)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,15:26)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,15:11)
 
Quote
naturen = X + 0


Finally!

I managed to apply your theory to the "X" I had in front of me

since naturen = X + 0

then

naturen = X

or the equivalent....

X = naturen

So my "X" is naturen!

Is that right?

Yes, if you did not find X' in your X, then, your X in front of you is naturen.

I didn't find any X', because I have no clue how to

"measure the feature of your X that made your X really X after you threat your X with Xo"

and I didn't even threat it, god forbid...

What does it mean that my "X" is naturen then?
Does it mean that it's a product of some natural process?

Why are you so LAZY to read my post especially the Section of the book that I've FREELY shared here?

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:05   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 05 2015,15:44)
[quote=MrIntelligentDesign,Oct. 05 2015,16:23]  
Many things could be quantified.  How do you quantify beauty, love, the precise point where purple becomes red or blue?  You are blinded by your overemphasis on math.
One shudders to think how bad your math skills are.

Oh, you are already out of your mind!

We are talking biological world and now your are talking about beauty, love,..??

Have you lost your mind?

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:09   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 05 2015,16:13)
[quote=MrIntelligentDesign,Oct. 05 2015,16:30]
You are incapable of drawing fine distinctions.

Existence simply is.  Individual things exist -- and they may come into existence and pass out of existence.
You focus your efforts on individual things.  But even there you go wrong -- integers exist, and are clearly not brought into existence nor do they go out of existence.  They are not caused, they just are.

Your assertion that I am trying to claim a PC just popped into existence without cause is unsupported by anything I've said.

Science only deals with a subset of existence.  Science does not concern itself with the existence of integers or of the laws of logic or geometry or calculus.  It uses them, but they already exist, always exist, and are uncaused.

You claim to be accounting for existence as such, and you assert that anything and everything which exists has a cause.
That is not just wrong, it is insane.
What does it mean to cause the number 2?
What does it mean to cause the Law of Identity or the Law of Excluded Middle?
They just are.
Without them, there is no science.

Why do you keep bringing Darwin into the discussion?
No one here is making the claim that the ToE is the explanation for every phenomenon.  Yet you persist in acting as if we did.
You are wrong, on this as on everything.

Specific things that exist, at least a subset of those which come into existence, persist for a while, then pass out of existence, can be effects.  That is equivalent to saying that they can be caused.

So here's a little problem for you -- one you cannot deal with.
Is a cause prior to its effect, or after its effect, or simultaneous with its effect?
Think carefully before you answer.

We agreed that there is existence. Now, how does existence exist? What is the principle behind it?

My new discovery shows that if any agent wanted X to exist, that agent must use intelligence since intelligence is always used universally.

Now, where is your explanation if you think that I'm wrong?

YOUR science has no power, no progress, no development and new explanation. Why should I accept that?

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:11   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 05 2015,17:27)
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 05 2015,09:04)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 05 2015,08:40)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ Oct. 05 2015,08:30)
Edgar, you say that animals are not intelligent. Crows are animals. Click on the links below:

http://io9.com/the-mys....0350033

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......an_crow

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2....48....486.stm

There are many more articles and videos about crows making and using tools, and crows aren't the only animals that make and use tools. And making and/or using tools isn't the only sign of intelligence.

Do you still say that humans are intelligent but all animals are not?

I did not say that animals have no instinct. I said that animals except humans exceeds the natural phenomena and they were incorrectly labeled as "intelligence". They are just using instinct.

I've already calculated that 1 is for natural process- naturen

1 ~ 1.499999999...is for instinct but it is still naturen

So, instinct is better than natural process alone..

Thus, tell those scientists and thinkers to follow me and not their incorrect mis-interpretation and incorrect explanation of biological world.

No one has disputed that animals are largely driven by instincts.  However, some of them, to varying degrees, surpass instinct.  Your 1.5 ratio is indefensible: you have to get results you want by relying on trivial examples and twisting the bejesus out of everything else to force it to fit your conclusions.  Many animals are clearly capable of generating creative solutions above and beyond their instinctive programming, which is intelligence in any rational sense of the word.  Crows are a very good example.  Elephants, dolphins and chimpanzees are even better examples.  Chimpanzees notably come up with multiple solutions to problems (e.g., cracking nuts, getting termites out of termitaries, impressing females & getting sex, acquiring food from others, getting food from tricky experimental set-ups).

You have also not demonstrated that intelligence excludes instinct as a primitive form of intelligence, although your definition of intellen clearly excludes it, and it's certainly within your prerogatives to invent and define new terms.

Even more damning for his notions than tool use is the research that shows that some tool use in chimps, orangutans, and dolphins is cultural.  It is learned.  It is specific to those individuals who have learned it from others, and is thus confined to specific groups.  I recall one example of tool use in Orangs that is different on two sides of a river because they don't cross that river.

Learning in animals are instinctual learning...thus, those animals that you had enumerated don't use intelligence but instinct only. Did you get me?

Show me the difference between instinct and intelligence if you dis-agree. I will asking you after that.....

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:14   

Quote (The whole truth @ Oct. 06 2015,01:03)
Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Sep. 30 2015,04:58)
Quote (The whole truth @ Sep. 30 2015,06:45)
So, Edgar, tell us about the "the real intelligence and the new Intelligent Design", and don't forget to include your evidence.

Thank you for this thread.

I will make it slowly since my experience in my attempts in peer-review told me that even the reviewers were not sharp enough to understand new discoveries. How about you?

I discovered many things in science and most of them are unsolved problems but in here, I will only limit ourselves on universal and real intelligence and  new Intelligent Design <id> since I have work too and I am writing many books. I don't have a full time to reply to all of you that is why I ask you to read all my posts since they are all for you...

But I will help you to understand it. I hope that you could.


I am the Founder, Discoverer, Scientist, Researcher and Author of the new Intelligent Design <id> and the discoverer of the real "intelligence".

Well, the old ID was based on "complexity" from Darwin's original idea of eyes as "complex", hence we have "irreducible complexity" and "complex specified information" from the old ID but the new Intelligent Design <id> is using the real intelligence only that I've discovered.

Difference between the old intelligence to the new intelligence?

OK, the old intelligence talks about natural phenomenon only...not the actual intelligence. The old intelligence has 60+ researched definitions as published in arxiv.org but the new intelligence has only one definition and it covers all the probably 80+ definitions of old intelligence combined. The new definition of intelligence is also universal, which means you can use it to all X in the entire existence.

Thus, when you talk intelligence without relying/using my new discovery of the real intelligence, you are talking a natural phenomenon and not the actual intelligence, thus, you are surely wrong scientifically.

Thus, I am informing all you here that your science and understanding of reality are wrong since you have no idea of the real intelligence.

In applications, (1) how do we know if a biological cell is designed or not?

Or (2) How do you know if your car is really your car?

Or (3) how do you know if a square is not a rectangle?

If we use the explanatory power from ToE (Theory of Evolution), we will have three answers to the three questions..but for the explanatory power from new Intelligent Design <id>, we will have only one answer to all questions since, as I had claimed and said, that real intelligence is universal...

We can even answer this question: How do you know if a mountain is designed or not?..same answer universally...

or particles or sub-particles or anything...


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE ADVERSARIAL REVIEW of the New Intelligent Design <id> and its new discoveries
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be fair to those who bought my science books, I will be sharing you the different content of my science books and in different approach so that all of you who are interested could be a part of this Adversarial Review of the New Intelligent Design <id> and its new discoveries. I claimed that my new discoveries are universal, obvious and yet sooooooooooo profound and sooooooo straightforward. Thus, I can give you any demonstrations and experiment to show the real intelligence.


BACKGROUND
Before the new Intelligent Design <id> had discovered the real intelligence and the universal boundary line (UBL) in the topic of origin and cause and effect, our naturalistic science had no UBL to differentiate a natural phenomenon (naturen) or natural process (naturen) to intelligently designed process or intelligently designed products (intellen). Thus, when all of the scientists were asked the question of the origin of the existence, Cosmos, universe, particles, life or everything or species, the answer is always either

“GodDidIt”

Or

“NatureDidIt”.

But if the follow up question is something like this; “How do you know that it is ‘GodDidIt’ or ‘NatureDidIt’” the normal answer for “GodDidIt” is “our holy book said it”. The normal answer for “NatureDidIt” is always a question, “If nature did not do it, which?” assuming that if there is an Agent who had designed existence, Cosmos, universe, particles, life or everything or species, a collective nature did it.

They both have answers but they have both no experiments to show that. In short, they have both assumptions and conclusions or pre-determined views. Thus, we have dilemma in science and in reality.

You can choose which camps you want.



NAILING THE BOUNDARY LINE
Here is how the new Intelligent Design <id> had discovered and settled the most difficult topic in the topic of origin.

Let us assume that you are a clerk or secretary of a company and your desk is just outside the room of your manager. The manager had asked you to give him/her “one paper clip”. So, you bring one paper clip and give it to him/her. In our human’s way of dealing things, bringing one paper clip to him/her is not an act of intelligence. It is an act of a normal phenomenon or ordinary natural phenomenon. The new Intelligent Design <id> called it “naturen”. If we put that in a simple mathematical relation, we can write like this:

One problem (P) = one solution (S) or
If the problem (P) is 1, and the solution (S) is 1, then the ratio is 1.

One paper clip divided by one paper clip will always be one.

The new Intelligent Design <id> called that ratio a SYMMETRICAL PHENOMENON.

Now, let us assume that you bring two paper clips and a stapler to the same request of bringing one paper clip. It depends on the manager, but if you prepare two paper clips and a stapler to solve the future request, the new Intelligent Design <id> called that act as an intellen, for you are not only solving one problem but you are solving one problem with three solutions.

One problem (P) = three solutions (S) or
If the problem (P) is 1, and the solution (S) is 3, then the ratio is 3.

Two paper clips + one stapler divided by one paper clip will always be three.
(I am not thinking units here, OK?)

The new Intelligent Design <id> called that ratio an ASYMMETRICAL PHENOMENON.


OK, why it is naturen? If we based our Probability Calculation and its limit (0 < P < 1), we can see that any event to occur has always a probability of 1. Which mean, any natural event or natural phenomenon or natural process will always have the ratio of 1. Both reality and probability agreed that all natural event or natural phenomenon or natural processes have always a ratio of 1.

Let us make more examples in reality:
When you are hungry (problem) for 200 grams of spaghetti and you eat 200 grams of spaghetti (solution), that is also naturen. Or drink 100 ml of soda because you are thirsty of 100 soda, that is also a naturen. My discoveries had been telling and pointing us that there are really a natural process, natural phenomenon and natural event.

OK, why it is intellen? Since we have already declared and discovered that 1 is a naturen in nature and reality, we can see that more than 1 is an intellen since that is how we based our dealing with things. FAILURE or less than 1 is not intellen, obviously.

For example:
1. Paper clip. If you bring two or more paper clips, you are assuring that the work of your manager by using paper clip is successful. Success (with double or more solutions) is always an intellen.
2. Hungry and Eat. When you eat spaghetti (X) with higher nutrients (for example) that is already considered intellen since you are assuring that your health will continue. This is “life” or “survive” for the new Intelligent Design <id>.
3. Thirsty and Drink: When you drink 100 ml soda with additional nutrients, then, you are an intellen since you are solving the problem of drinking 100 soda only with more additional healthy drink.

In the new Intelligent Design <id>, the way you solve the problem with more solutions is called a principle. A principle is a method. Only an agent that knows intelligent knows this method.


Now, from the above explanations, we can derive the universal definition of intelligence:

Do you wanna guess?

Let me share it here.

Intelligence is the principle of reinforcing an X to survive, to exist and to succeed in a certain degree of importance, and it always acts on asymmetrical phenomenon.


If we use the paper clip, we can explain it from the above definition.

If you bring two or more paper clips, you are reinforcing or supporting your solution to really give your manager a paper clip. What if you give him/her a broken paper clip and you did not have reserve? He or she will tell you that you are “STUPID!” And stupidity is not intellen. So, two are better than one in intellen. And since your work and your manager is important, you keep thinking many solutions to single situation/problem. And since two or more clips are greater than 1, then, you are just doing the asymmetrical phenomenon…a problem-solution-solution principle.

THIS IS the Holy Grail of my new discovery. After you understand this, please, contact the Nobel Prize committee and given them my name and tell them my new discovery.

If we apply that to the origin and cause and effect in Physics, Biology, Philosophy, you will surely blow your intellectual mind and say, “REALLY! That is so simple and yet profound!

Thus, help me to get my Nobel Prize in both Physics, Biology, Philosophy, Psychology, mathematics…

I will be sharing more…
___
Nothing makes sense in science except in the light of Intelligent Design <id>. So, Biological Interrelation, BiTs is unproved and un-provable. We believe it only because the only alternative is evolution, and that is unthinkable.




[I][/B][B]

"Success (with double or more solutions) is always an intellen."

Edgar, when animals use more than one solution, aren't the animals "intellen" by [b]your definition?

Yes, intelligence is always having two or more solutions but those animals that you are saying don't use that.

Humans do it, but I don't consider humans as animals. I called them intellen beings.

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:17   

Quote
Now, how does existence exist?


Priceless.

Look Edgar, I'm going to give you the best advise anybody could ever give you.

Keep all this to yourself in your everyday life, don't mention it at work in particular, just pretend it never happened. Concentrate on breathing and just keep going, one day at a time.

You're far too stupid to even begin to understand what science is all about, and you will never become an apologist either since you seem to be the kind of simpleton with no malice or desire to fool others.

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:23   

Quote (The whole truth @ Oct. 06 2015,01:24)
"In the new Intelligent Design <id>, the way you solve the problem with more solutions is called a principle. A principle is a method. Only an agent that knows intelligent knows this method."

Edgar, before this universe existed, was the non-existence of this universe a "problem"? If so, how many "solutions" did the "IA" (intelligent agent) use to solve the problem?

WOW!! You have a right question and a good question.

Actually, I've been lingering that question for almost three years in my mind after I discovered the real intelligence.

Yes, in the new intelligence that I've discovered, intelligence is always asymmetrical phenomenon..


If you write it in problem-solution idea, you will end like this

Existence = problem/solution

But if we apply that to the universe and Cosmos, the non-existence of universe and Cosmos are the collective problem.

The solution is the universe and Cosmos...thus, symmetrical but in the making of universe, the IA used a dual nature of particle and the IA had used an asymmetrical idea of

non-existence/existence....an asymmetrical.

If there is no IA, it is predicted that there will be no existence...

or there will always be an existence...but you will never have existence if you don't have non-existence, thus, through this, intelligence predicts that

1. IA, aka God, exists
2. IA had designed the universe and Cosmos...an intellen

That is why I am here for you to help me if I'm right or wrong...but so far, I'm still right since no one had ever find a replacement for my new discoveries...

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:27   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 06 2015,04:17)
Quote
Now, how does existence exist?


Priceless.

Look Edgar, I'm going to give you the best advise anybody could ever give you.

Keep all this to yourself in your everyday life, don't mention it at work in particular, just pretend it never happened. Concentrate on breathing and just keep going, one day at a time.

You're far too stupid to even begin to understand what science is all about, and you will never become an apologist either since you seem to be the kind of simpleton with no malice or desire to fool others.

Hilarious advice!

I don't need your advice. I am a discoverer in science and I am fine with that.

Lol!

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:29   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 06 2015,03:19)
[quote=dazz,Oct. 05 2015,18:49]
No answer, I'll have to keep waiting I guess.

In the mean time... you did it again. You insist once again that everything "symmetric" is "naturen"

Gods are not "made" right? So there's no X', which means gods are naturen, like boogers and farts... only that boogers and farts can be shown empirically to exist.

Your "not-a-theory" doesn't work the way you wanted it to, buddy

Please, be specific since this is a scientific discussion,.

I am not a fortune teller like you...

  
MrIntelligentDesign



Posts: 405
Joined: Sep. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:38   

Quote (someotherguy @ Oct. 05 2015,19:06)
Let's say I have a rock.  Now let's say that I stand over this rock holding a baseball bat with a threatening look on my face.  The rock does nothing to respond to this threat from me.  According to this new science, can I now conclude that rock = naturen?  If so, does that mean that the rock is not a product of intelligence?

What I said was that, if X is you as human, you are intellen.

How do we know?

If I threat you as to kill you, you either fight back or move away..

Your feet (1) and your eyes (2) and your mind (3) are all your defense mechanisms to protect your life with my threat (Xo).

In this example,

your feet is X', eyes is X' and mind is X'...three features that support you to live.

Now, let us go to ROCK.

We already know and familiar that ROCK has a certain feature and characteristic, and it is so obvious that ROCKS are existence and yet they are all naturen.

But if one sculpture had used that ROCK to become art (Xo to rock), then, the rock is intellen.

The one that threat the ROCK for existing as "ROCK" is the art of sculpture (Xo).. The ROCK now becomes ART, losing the characteristic of ROCK as ROCK...if origin of rock's surface is in question...

PLEASE, READ one Section of my book for more examples.

  
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:40   

Quote
I am not a fortune teller like you...


I suspect that Postcardo wears his hat sideways and sticks his hand in his vest shouting "I am ze king of France, I tell you!"

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,04:55   

Quote (MrIntelligentDesign @ Oct. 06 2015,04:29)
[quote=dazz,Oct. 06 2015,03:19]
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 05 2015,18:49)

No answer, I'll have to keep waiting I guess.

In the mean time... you did it again. You insist once again that everything "symmetric" is "naturen"

Gods are not "made" right? So there's no X', which means gods are naturen, like boogers and farts... only that boogers and farts can be shown empirically to exist.

Your "not-a-theory" doesn't work the way you wanted it to, buddy

Please, be specific since this is a scientific discussion,.

I am not a fortune teller like you...

So I should be more specific? LMFAO

All you have are examples and more examples.

Quote
measure the feature of my X that made my X really X after I threat my X with Xo


This is meaningless drivel, impossible to apply without asking you what those X' and Xo are, so you can force your conclusion (god)

So there's no explanatory power in your "theory" (as with any claimed "universal" principle)
It's not repeatable.
You have no way to validate your claims empirically, you have no evidence
It's not falsifiable
It's not repeatable

...so it's not science, doesn't even look like it

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 06 2015,05:39   

Let me elaborate on why you are not doing science:

First: you don't get to redefine science

Science must:

Have explanatory power

Your "theory" doesn't explain anything about how things happen. Saying for example that something is "a natural phenomena" doesn't tell you anything about the phenomena, how it works, when it happened, etc...

Be falsifiable

You keep demanding experiments to prove you wrong, but if you were doing science, you would make sure that those experiments can be performed, and if they fail to prove your theory wrong, that would count as supportive evidence.
Unfortunately all your claims are unfalsifiable. Stuff like:

Symmetry = naturen

and

Asymmetry = intellen

are not falsifiable claims: To be able to falsify those statements, we would need an independent way of determining whether something is "naturen" or "intelen", and a precise method to identify symmetry/asymmetry. But even if you had the later, naturen and intellen, the way you define them, can't be tested empirically without using your definitions. You think that's a strong point of your theory but it's actually the opposite, and the fact that you're not aware of that proves how scientifically illiterate you are.

have supporting evidence for ALL your claims and definitions

This is key. But unfalsifiable claims can't have supporting evidence as stated above, and you have none. Dropping eggs on tissues are thought experiments at best, and don't count as empirical evidence.

Repeatability is already tackled, so I won't go there

  
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