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Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2008,13:53    Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 06 2008,16:13) Quote In recent years, geologists have bandied about two different theories on when exactly this natural wonder began to form, said Carol Hill of the University of New Mexico, co-author of a new study on the canyon's age. One camp dated it to a modest 5 million to 6 million years old based on the age of gravel washed down by the early Colorado River, while another group suspected that the western portion of the canyon is much older than that. Hill, along with lead author Victor Polyak and co-author Yemane Asmerom, also of the University of New Mexico, used a recently-improved technique to date mineral deposits in cave formations in one layer of the canyon's rock and arrived at the more ancient age of 16 million to 17 million years old. That's still relatively young considering Earth's 4.5 billion years. The finding is detailed in the March 7 issue of the journal Science. It just sucks to be a creationist. It sucks to be a idiot, too: Quote WeWantScientificTruth wrote: sorry Clabber, faulty logic yet again. The SAME people (calling themselves "scientists") who already espoused their erroneous religious belief that the Grand Canyon is (a) OLD, and (b) CARVED OUT BY A RIVER, have simply changed their lying numbers. Look, they call themselves scientists so I know it hurts their feelings to call them stupid (although they really sound stupid when they talk about this mysterious "millions of years") but they are not arguing with logical nor scientific methods. Their dating techniques have been consistently shown to be completely inaccurate. Also ask yourself: how did the trickling Colorado River "carve" a huge canyon out of hard rock when massive surging rivers like Missouri, Mississipi, Nile, Amazon etc cannot carve even a tiny canyon out of much softer material. WE WANT THE TRUTH YOU "SCIENTISTS"!! QUIT SPEWING YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. YOU ARE LYING AND YOU KNOW IT. This story goes to prove that Creation and the Hydroplate Theory are more correct than ever - they have been around for over 4000 years and don't have to make massive changes to their theory like these "scientists" do every few months. Clabber, do you even know what the Hydroplate Theory is? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2008,14:17    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 07 2008,11:53) [quote=Lou FCD,Mar. 06 2008,16:13] It sucks to be a idiot, too: Quote WeWantScientificTruth wrote: sorry Clabber, faulty logic yet again. The SAME people (calling themselves "scientists") who already espoused their erroneous religious belief that the Grand Canyon is (a) OLD, and (b) CARVED OUT BY A RIVER, have simply changed their lying numbers. Look, they call themselves scientists so I know it hurts their feelings to call them stupid (although they really sound stupid when they talk about this mysterious "millions of years") but they are not arguing with logical nor scientific methods. Their dating techniques have been consistently shown to be completely inaccurate. Also ask yourself: how did the trickling Colorado River "carve" a huge canyon out of hard rock when massive surging rivers like Missouri, Mississipi, Nile, Amazon etc cannot carve even a tiny canyon out of much softer material. WE WANT THE TRUTH YOU "SCIENTISTS"!! QUIT SPEWING YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. YOU ARE LYING AND YOU KNOW IT. This story goes to prove that Creation and the Hydroplate Theory are more correct than ever - they have been around for over 4000 years and don't have to make massive changes to their theory like these "scientists" do every few months. Clabber, do you even know what the Hydroplate Theory is? The Mississippi in a 5000-foot-deep canyon at Memphis, then flowing uphill to New Orleans.   I like it. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2008,15:06    I'm sorry, I was just proud of this one and wanted to share: -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2008,07:46    Turncoat said: Quote I once went out with a hospital CEO who explained at length how Jesus had made her a success. Then she tried to get me to fuck her. (Sorry, but fuck is le mot juste.) Physically, she was an absolute beauty, but somehow I'd lost interest Haven't you heard about the bedroom conversion? I would have hapily joined in her in her fundagarments and converted her to Jainism and given her the first hundred pages of the Kama Sutra to study while showing her how to achieve Moksha the release from the cycle of death and rebirth.....then left town. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2008,08:30    Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 09 2008,07:46) Turncoat said:   Quote I once went out with a hospital CEO who explained at length how Jesus had made her a success. Then she tried to get me to fuck her. (Sorry, but fuck is le mot juste.) Physically, she was an absolute beauty, but somehow I'd lost interest Haven't you heard about the bedroom conversion? I would have hapily joined in her in her fundagarments and converted her to Jainism and given her the first hundred pages of the Kama Sutra to study while showing her how to achieve Moksha the release from the cycle of death and rebirth.....then left town. Ohhhh is that what you call whimpering about mother while in a fetal ball.  I'm sure that works with all the ladies -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2008,10:08    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 09 2008,08:30) Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 09 2008,07:46) Turncoat said:   Quote I once went out with a hospital CEO who explained at length how Jesus had made her a success. Then she tried to get me to fuck her. (Sorry, but fuck is le mot juste.) Physically, she was an absolute beauty, but somehow I'd lost interest Haven't you heard about the bedroom conversion? I would have hapily joined in her in her fundagarments and converted her to Jainism and given her the first hundred pages of the Kama Sutra to study while showing her how to achieve Moksha the release from the cycle of death and rebirth.....then left town. Ohhhh is that what you call whimpering about mother while in a fetal ball.  I'm sure that works with all the ladies Mommy, that nasty man is following me around... -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2008,14:04    Or maybe her attention is drawn by Aqualung, who watches through the railings as they play. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2008,14:10    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 09 2008,15:04) Or maybe her attention is drawn by Aqualung, who watches through the railings as they play. Don't you start away uneasy... -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Richard Simons Posts: 425 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2008,18:02    Quote (Guest @ Mar. 09 2008,14:37) ABC/Larry said: (quoting sorted out)   Quote Mike Elzinga said: There have been a number of proposals and course designs that would integrate evolution throughout the entire course by making it the central theme or thread that runs throughout. That's ridiculous -- it would be like trying to integrate Newton's laws of motion throughout an entire physics course.    It either couldn't be done or it would look ridiculous -- like a physics textbook chapter on electricity & magnetism having a big discussion on how Newton's laws of motion apply to the parts of a generator.     You Darwinist crackpots are really going off the deep end.    You are living in a dream world where you think that you can have a biology course that is designed to insult fundies and other Darwin Doubters.    You ought to be locked up in a looney bin.   Not at all. Comments like this merely serve to emphasize how little you know of biology. When I took both botany and zoology at high school in the UK (they were taught as separate subjects) evolution was the thread than ran through them both. I think it was required by the curriculum but the botany teacher in particular emphasized the way in which the organisms' evolution tied everything together. -------------- All sweeping statements are wrong.

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2008,19:29    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 09 2008,14:04) Or maybe her attention is drawn by Aqualung, who watches through the railings as they play. looking out or looking in ? ..I'm not hiding my swami-ness under a bushel choose your poison Addiction K?l? O victorious one -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2008,21:18    Someone needs to call David Fafarman and tell him his brother appears to be off his meds again. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2008,21:30    why don't you roll over and whisper it in his ear? -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2008,21:54    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 10 2008,21:30) why don't you roll over and whisper it in his ear? Ras, I know how things are where you come from, but he's not some barnyard sow or something. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2008,23:05    me thinks the cunning linguist doth protest too much. did you know that goats don't like water?  you can take them down to the creek and try to push them in and they just back on up.   don't like that water do you boy.  better back that ass up arden. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Crazyharp81602 Posts: 3 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2008,23:27    Hi! I'm new here. I'm here to tell you about my blog Dinosaurs and The Bible A Creationist's Fairy Tale that exposes and debunks the myths and falsehoods surrounding the creationists' claims on dinosaurs. It's becoming one of the best science blogs out there and I would like to invite you all to come check out my blog. Right now when you go visit the site look at the upper right hand corner to find that I'm almost up to a whopping 100,000 hits! :D To commemorate this special event, I'm staging a contest in which one lucky winner gets a special prize package. See this post on my blog for details. Dinosaurs and The Bible A Creationists' Fairy Tale 100,000 Giveaway -------------- "And if you love music, than you can play music. And all it takes is just love, because eh, because baby, in the final analysis love is power. That's where the power's at!" - Mike from The Monkees episode The Devil and Peter Tork.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2008,23:42    Submitted for the sake of my sanity, because I need a second opinion: The new president of Minnesota Atheists writes in our latest newsletter: Quote Every time I speak at a Christian college, I become more convinced of several things: 1) The vast majority of these students, while dedicated Christians, are open to hearing and discussing other points of view in a thoughtful manner. 2) They respect our right to be atheists and to not be discriminated against or have religion forced on us. 3) They value the American ideals of separation and state and church and have a "live and let live" attitude that almost always extends to atheists and gays. (We must admit that there are some atheists who do not have a "live and let live" attitude toward religious people.) 4) They are as genuinely concerned about the welfare of the poor and our environment as any of the rest of us flaming liberals. 5) That the percentage of Christians who are good and decent is about the same as the percentage [of] atheists who are good and decent [well, duh]. There are bad apples in both groups, but they are by far the minority. 6) That the Minnesota Atheists [sic] attitude of non-ridiculing, positive, friendly neighborhood atheism works. We need to continue to tear down walls, rather than put up barriers. My attitude is that we have already won the intellectual war, now we just have to spread the good news [emphasis mine]. I submit this without comment - or without naming "those bad apples" - I just want to solicit your opinions. Believe me, I have an opinion on this. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2008,23:59    i would agree with 1,2,4 and maybe 5 but not exactly as he states it.  3 and 6 just ring of propaganda to me.

gcbrown200 Posts: 1 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,00:22    [Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin] Don’t really know where to post this, so I will try the bathroom wall, and since this thread is talking about miracles and other crap, here goes. As a long time lurker here, I would like to thank all of the regular contributors to Panda’s Thumb for giving people with a thirst for knowledge a place to find reason. Sometimes it is hard to see the lies of the creationists, if you don’t have the background or information to see how they are lying. You do perform a valuable service. The reason I am writing is to ask an opinion on something I have recently came across. To me it explains a lot about the bible, the Christian creation myth and how they came to be what they are today.  I do not believe in astrology, but I can see how an ancient civilization could form their myths out of what the read in the sky. http://www.usbible.com/Creation/elements_of_creation.htm http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/gospel_zodiac.htm http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/christ2002.htm I have looked for Christian apologists answers (I like to see both sides of the argument) and found almost nothing. This link is the best I could do. http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c019.html Thank you, gcbrown200 BTW, if this is something that has already been addressed, sorry.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,00:33    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 10 2008,23:05) me thinks the cunning linguist doth protest too much. did you know that goats don't like water?  you can take them down to the creek and try to push them in and they just back on up.   don't like that water do you boy.  better back that ass up arden. It's a little disconcerting how much you know about farm animals, Ras. HA HA NOW THIS IS YOU: -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Mister DNA Posts: 466 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,00:41    Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 10 2008,23:42) Submitted for the sake of my sanity, because I need a second opinion: The new president of Minnesota Atheists writes in our latest newsletter:     Quote Every time I speak at a Christian college, I become more convinced of several things: 1) The vast majority of these students, while dedicated Christians, are open to hearing and discussing other points of view in a thoughtful manner. 2) They respect our right to be atheists and to not be discriminated against or have religion forced on us. 3) They value the American ideals of separation and state and church and have a "live and let live" attitude that almost always extends to atheists and gays. (We must admit that there are some atheists who do not have a "live and let live" attitude toward religious people.) 4) They are as genuinely concerned about the welfare of the poor and our environment as any of the rest of us flaming liberals. 5) That the percentage of Christians who are good and decent is about the same as the percentage [of] atheists who are good and decent [well, duh]. There are bad apples in both groups, but they are by far the minority. 6) That the Minnesota Atheists [sic] attitude of non-ridiculing, positive, friendly neighborhood atheism works. We need to continue to tear down walls, rather than put up barriers. My attitude is that we have already won the intellectual war, now we just have to spread the good news [emphasis mine]. I submit this without comment - or without naming "those bad apples" - I just want to solicit your opinions. Believe me, I have an opinion on this. Hmmm... I'm almost inclined to believe that there's a certain atheist in Minnesota with a reputation for being abrasive towards Christians. re: Item #6 - I'm personally aware that there are Christians who are receptive to friendly communication with atheists, but to claim that "we have already won the intellectual war" is delusional wishful thinking. It reminds me of AFDave's style of arguing a premise: Step 1: Make your claim Step 2: Claim victory Step 3: Remain oblivious to other people's viewpoints Step 4: Repeat steps 1, 2 & 3 I blogged about atheist activism the other day, if anyone wants to know more about what I think... -------------- CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,02:04    I think atheist activism is silly and a waste of time. If it has a name besides or attached to "atheist", it's demanding more attention than atheism deserves for me. I realize this is possibly like telling someone asking about a midterm assignment to drop out, but really. I can almost understand the need for books and other such fun in protest of "atheists are the antichrist!" garbage, but beyond that I just don't get it at all. On a separate note and in partial response to the CBEB post, I think suggesting atheist groups are sometimes like a religious institution is misleading. First, it never seems to get the intended point across to the targets. Atheists are nothing if not pedantic, and they'll never hesitate to focus on why they think the label of "religion" is technically inappropriate for what they're doing. Normally this has something to do with a lack of supernaturalism. So, it might be cleaner to call atheist activism a "weird social club" or "unthinking identity community" or something like that to convey distaste. "Screwy cult" would be useful under extreme circumstances, because amusingly "cult" doesn't connote supernaturalism quite like "religion" does. -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

slpage Posts: 349 Joined: June 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,08:04    [Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin] Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 10 2008,01:21) bFast - just a couple of observations. 1. It would help if you could clarify your terminology. Well, he is a computer programmer creationist with no background in biology. Which is why, of course, he must be right on everything he writes.  Because creationists without biology backgrounds with computer/engineering backgrounds know everything about everything.   And if there are any truly brilliant engineers out there, they would side with creationist bfast and his ilk on these issues.

slpage Posts: 349 Joined: June 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,08:06    [Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin] Quote (bFast @ Mar. 10 2008,09:53) JAM, you bore me.  You don't at all answer my real question, but spend all your energy trying to twist what I am saying into something racist. Do you think anyone is not bored by your typical, mundane, arrogant creationist pontificating? And you might want to work on your spelling - it detracts from your vacuous claims.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,09:10    Thank you all. Everyone has basically said what I feared. I joined thinking that I had a lot in common with these folks and that I’d meet interesting people. Well, I could deal with people turning out to be ordinary, but not turning out to be propagandists talking about “bad apples” in the “atheist movement.” (*edit -Oops, I did include that part.*) I just wanted to make sure that I wasn’t skewing this. If this has taught me anything, it’s taught me about what happens when people don’t solicit outside opinions. (Actually, Mister DNA, I liked your post and I’m not even the one who caused the controversy up here – although I am now, for sticking up for the person who caused the controversy. He’s now decided to quit.) We live in the United States, where everything has to be a “movement.” -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,09:55    This will make Tarden Chattersnatch have a movement.  Downstairs. Whoa boy it's just a picture on a computer screen!  Easy now. Proof that the God of the bible created the world and wants us to be happy:  a full grown man can just fit in a chicken.  Course that don't help you much now does it arden. Hey FtK them'ar atheists are talkin' bout bestiality again!  can't you still post on the wall? -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,10:30    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 11 2008,09:55) Proof that the God of the bible created the world and wants us to be happy:  a full grown man can just fit in a chicken. It's probably best if you don't tell us how you know this. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

bFast Posts: 44 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,11:19    [Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin] slpage, you are distracting from this topic.  Please go away.

slpage Posts: 349 Joined: June 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,13:05    [Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin] Quote (bFast @ Mar. 11 2008,11:19) slpage, you are distracting from this topic.  Please go away. Sorry, you can't pull strings with your imbecilic buddies and order people around on here. You don't seem to understand the difference between genes and alleles, that much is obvious.  You are clueless.

phantomreader42 Unregistered (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,15:04    Hey, Cowardheart!  Ever get around to explaining what this "PT-mafia" you keep babbling about is?  Got any evidence for it, outside of your delusional fantasies?  Or are you just flinging around false accusations?  Isn't your imaginary god supposed to have some sort of problem with bearing false witness?   <blockquote> <strong>William Wallace:</strong> <blockquote> <strong>Paul M lied:</strong> Are we making progress? The creationists (WiyC, WW) here are now openly admitting that they're lying but trying to claim that their ends justify the means. </blockquote> Typical PT-mafia tactics, while PvM watches. </blockquote>

Mister DNA Posts: 466 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,16:50    Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 11 2008,09:10) Thank you all. Everyone has basically said what I feared. I joined thinking that I had a lot in common with these folks and that I’d meet interesting people. Well, I could deal with people turning out to be ordinary, but not turning out to be propagandists talking about “bad apples” in the “atheist movement.” (*edit -Oops, I did include that part.*) I just wanted to make sure that I wasn’t skewing this. If this has taught me anything, it’s taught me about what happens when people don’t solicit outside opinions. (Actually, Mister DNA, I liked your post and I’m not even the one who caused the controversy up here – although I am now, for sticking up for the person who caused the controversy. He’s now decided to quit.) We live in the United States, where everything has to be a “movement.” :( Maybe I'll do a part two on that post... I had intended to write a little bit on "fellowshipping" (poor word choice, I know) with other atheists, but the post got kinda long. For the most part, atheists are smart, witty people. I like smart, witty people. If I feel a bond with other atheists, it's usually because they possess qualities other than their atheism that I like. Instead of a "big tent" policy like ID, I see atheism as having a "many tents" atmosphere. My tent might temporarily share the same space with some other atheists, but the boundaries are usually set by factors other than atheism. For example, if I were to join a local atheist group, it would probably be for the purpose of achieving a certain goal - enacting or repealing some sort of legislation, perhaps. Once that goal was reached, I'd probably no longer feel any need to remain in the organization. I might have established relationships with other atheists I have met, but I would feel no obligation at all to remain a member of the group. Does that make sense? -------------- CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

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