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  Topic: Joe G.'s Tardgasm, How long can it last?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
George



Posts: 316
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 03 2012,14:55   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ May 03 2012,13:11)
And now I give you a thing of rare beauty:

Joe G:
Evidence- no one cares what any “theory” says. People care about the evidence. And to date there isn’t any evidence for a self-replicator and no evidence tat a self-replicator can become a living organism.


Elizabeth:
Joe, living organisms are self-replicators.

Joe G:
Humans are living organisms and we are not self-replicators.


 
Quote (blipey @ May 01 2012,13:25)
I agree; Joe's run his course and has become boring.


In fairness, Joe's just refuted blipey.  Who would've thought?

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1692
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 03 2012,15:47   

Quote (George @ May 03 2012,21:55)
Quote (Kattarina98 @ May 03 2012,13:11)
And now I give you a thing of rare beauty:

Joe G:
Evidence- no one cares what any “theory” says. People care about the evidence. And to date there isn’t any evidence for a self-replicator and no evidence tat a self-replicator can become a living organism.


Elizabeth:
Joe, living organisms are self-replicators.

Joe G:
Humans are living organisms and we are not self-replicators.


 

I don't have enough facepalms at my disposition to even start to express my facepalmation.

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 03 2012,16:17   



--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 03 2012,18:01   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ May 03 2012,11:11)
Quote (Woodbine @ May 01 2012,04:32)

Well, it looks like Joe has earned NCSE another 30 bucks. However, he missed a golden opportunity when he used a scientific term when he could have used something fit for a bathroom wall. - No, I'm not going to elaborate.

And now I give you a thing of rare beauty:

Joe G:
Evidence- no one cares what any “theory” says. People care about the evidence. And to date there isn’t any evidence for a self-replicator and no evidence tat a self-replicator can become a living organism.


Elizabeth:
Joe, living organisms are self-replicators.

Joe G:
Humans are living organisms and we are not self-replicators.

Hmm, maybe joe was designed, but certainly not by an "intelligent" designer.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,10:05   

Joe's war on materialism continues, largely in moderation. This nugget still needs to be released :

Quote
Submitted on 2012/05/04 at 1:27 pm
Evidence- evidence is what materialism doesn’t have


Especially PHYSICAL evidence, Joe.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,10:25   

Quote
largely in moderation

At least that's a virtue! Or so I've heard. :p

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,10:26   

Quote (Richardthughes @ May 04 2012,09:05)
Especially PHYSICAL evidence, Joe.

That's probably easier than collecting mental evidence! :p

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,11:13   

Quote (Richardthughes @ May 04 2012,08:05)
Joe's war on materialism continues, largely in moderation. This nugget still needs to be released :

 
Quote
Submitted on 2012/05/04 at 1:27 pm
Evidence- evidence is what materialism doesn’t have


Especially PHYSICAL evidence, Joe.

joe likes to believe in 'immaterial' things, like ghosts.

Awhile back he said that he would bet money that no one would spend a night in a haunted place of his choosing. I asked him to reveal the places and said that I would spend a night in any of them if he would actually pay up. Guess what? No response from him.

There is one haunted place where I wouldn't spend a night or a day or any other amount of time, for any amount of money: joe's delusional mind.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,11:17   

Quote (Henry J @ May 03 2012,14:44)
Maybe he thinks "self replication" excludes sexual reproduction?

(It wouldn't be hard to interpret the phrase that way.)

To be rilly rilly fair (why?) I guess a pedant's self-replicator would be a DNA strand stripped of all RNA and enzymes transcribed from a prior copy of that strand and isolated from other cells, which was still capable of replication. Since that never happens, the DNA-protein world contains no examples of a 'true' self-replicator. And given the role of somatic cells, definitely not a multicellular one, sexual or otherwise. You can use that, Joe!

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SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,11:58   

If memory serves, Richard Dawkins makes a distinction between replicators and reproducers.

A DNA molecule, he points out, is a replicator because it produces an exact copy of itself (under normal circumstances). Organisms cannot achieve this level of copying fidelity and so are termed 'reproducers'.

I'm buggered if I can remember in which of his books I read it, though....... ???

Edited by Woodbine on May 04 2012,17:59

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,12:51   

Would it be fair to say that organisms are a collection of molecules?

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,12:59   

Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,12:51)
Would it be fair to say that organisms are a collection of molecules?

Sure... but then, so is a rock.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,13:04   

Oh, Ceiling Cat, he's at it again.
Quote
Archaeology and forensic science definitely care about purpose as opposed to nature, operating freely. Ya see it changes the investigation- for example geologists make way for archaeologists wrt Stonehenge.


Which explains why archaeologist have a lot of training in geology and why geologists work side by side with archaeologists at most archaeological sites. Archaeology, done right, is multidisciplinary and draws on expertise from other fields to the extent that, quite frequently those outside experts have a say in the research design.

Edit to correct error

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,13:11   

Quote (afarensis @ May 04 2012,19:04)


Archaeology, done right, is multidisciplinary and draws on expertise from other fields to the extent that, quite frequently those outside experts have a say in the research design.

AHA! You expose the flaw in your own argument, Puny Evo!

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,13:14   

Quote (OgreMkV @ May 04 2012,10:59)
Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,12:51)
Would it be fair to say that organisms are a collection of molecules?

Sure... but then, so is a rock.

Is a rock a collection of molecules, or is it a collection of bonded atoms (sometimes containing molecules)?

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,14:18   

Molecules, atoms, and ions.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,14:19   

Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,13:14)
Quote (OgreMkV @ May 04 2012,10:59)
Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,12:51)
Would it be fair to say that organisms are a collection of molecules?

Sure... but then, so is a rock.

Is a rock a collection of molecules, or is it a collection of bonded atoms (sometimes containing molecules)?

Well if you're using the chemistry definition of molecule, then you're probably right... there are some minerals that would considered molecules (Carbon subsulfide can be a solid) and rocks are collections of minerals.  I really was being imprecise.

That's really an interesting question and chemistry is my worst subject (which explains why I taught it for 5 years).

I would be willing to argue that the chemical structure of many minerals is as complex as the smaller life-based molecules.  Montmorillonite being a good example with the formula

(Na,Ca)0.33(Al,Mg)2(Si4O10)(OH)2·nH2O

But (like DNA) capable of forming long strands of repeated units.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,14:28   

Hey joe g, since you watch this thread, maybe you will answer these questions:

Does anything in nature 'operate freely'? If so, what, and how do you know? If not, what, and how do you know? What's your definition of "operating freely".

Also, who designed and built Stonehenge? Was it beings from another planet? How about the Nazca Lines?

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,14:45   

Quote (OgreMkV @ May 04 2012,12:19)
Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,13:14)
Quote (OgreMkV @ May 04 2012,10:59)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,12:51)
Would it be fair to say that organisms are a collection of molecules?

Sure... but then, so is a rock.

Is a rock a collection of molecules, or is it a collection of bonded atoms (sometimes containing molecules)?

Well if you're using the chemistry definition of molecule, then you're probably right... there are some minerals that would considered molecules (Carbon subsulfide can be a solid) and rocks are collections of minerals.  I really was being imprecise.

That's really an interesting question and chemistry is my worst subject (which explains why I taught it for 5 years).

I would be willing to argue that the chemical structure of many minerals is as complex as the smaller life-based molecules.  Montmorillonite being a good example with the formula

(Na,Ca)0.33(Al,Mg)2(Si4O10)(OH)2·nH2O

But (like DNA) capable of forming long strands of repeated units.

That's okay, I guess I'm being pretty imprecise too.

I'm just curious about how others define some things, and how it might relate to "self-replicators".

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,14:57   

In (Na,Ca)0.33(Al,Mg)2(Si4O10)(OH)2·nH2O, do the numbers after the parentheses apply to the thing before the number, or the thing after?

And how does it have 0.33 of something? Does that mean that the thing the 0.33 applies to is shared among three of everything else?

Are the metal atoms in that list all ionized to the usual oxidation number of that element? (Na +1, Ca +2, Al +3, Mg +2)

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,15:52   

Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,12:13)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 04 2012,08:05)
Joe's war on materialism continues, largely in moderation. This nugget still needs to be released :

       
Quote
Submitted on 2012/05/04 at 1:27 pm
Evidence- evidence is what materialism doesn’t have


Especially PHYSICAL evidence, Joe.

joe likes to believe in 'immaterial' things, like ghosts.

Awhile back he said that he would bet money that no one would spend a night in a haunted place of his choosing. I asked him to reveal the places and said that I would spend a night in any of them if he would actually pay up. Guess what? No response from him.

There is one haunted place where I wouldn't spend a night or a day or any other amount of time, for any amount of money: joe's delusional mind.

Dollars to donuts says that, had you actually followed through on your side of the bet, Dishonest Joe would have stiffed you on the grounds that you couldn't prove that the place that he had chosen was actually haunted.

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,16:12   

Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,14:28)
Hey joe g, since you watch this thread, maybe you will answer these questions:

Does anything in nature 'operate freely'? If so, what, and how do you know? If not, what, and how do you know? What's your definition of "operating freely".

Also, who designed and built Stonehenge? Was it beings from another planet? How about the Nazca Lines?

And here are two more.

1) Do archaeologists use artifacts to make inferences about the designers of those artifacts?

2) Is the "Starchild" human?

Edit to correct spelling

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,19:47   

Friday meltdown in progress.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,21:05   

Quote (Henry J @ May 04 2012,14:57)
In (Na,Ca)0.33(Al,Mg)2(Si4O10)(OH)2·nH2O, do the numbers after the parentheses apply to the thing before the number, or the thing after?

And how does it have 0.33 of something? Does that mean that the thing the 0.33 applies to is shared among three of everything else?

Are the metal atoms in that list all ionized to the usual oxidation number of that element? (Na +1, Ca +2, Al +3, Mg +2)

Heh, I FINALLY get to use my geology.

OK, the parans contain options.  In the first case, it can be either a sodium or a calcium in that spot.  

The formula for minerals is more of a crystal structure than a chemical formula.  In this case, the .33 is a mole number relating to the weight of the oxides.  This is why the formula is Si4O10, instead of the chemically proper Si2O5.

Yes, the follow the normal oxidation rules, though different minerals will use different oxidations. For example wustite is FeO while magnetite if Fe2O3.

Montmorillonite has a very complex structure with a middle layer of the sodium/calcium (usually mixed with water).  This layer is why clay feels slippery.

Lightly bonded to that (top and bottom is a oxygen silicon tetrahedron with the base of the tetrahedron facing the middle layer.  Bonded to the top oxygen is the aluminum/magnesium.  Every pair of aluminum s has a pair of OHs bonded to them (and I mean "them" not "one of them").  Then there's another oxygen silicon tetrahedron on top.

I'm sure that's as clear as mud.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 04 2012,23:19   

Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ May 04 2012,13:52)
Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,12:13)
     
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 04 2012,08:05)
Joe's war on materialism continues, largely in moderation. This nugget still needs to be released :

       
Quote
Submitted on 2012/05/04 at 1:27 pm
Evidence- evidence is what materialism doesn’t have


Especially PHYSICAL evidence, Joe.

joe likes to believe in 'immaterial' things, like ghosts.

Awhile back he said that he would bet money that no one would spend a night in a haunted place of his choosing. I asked him to reveal the places and said that I would spend a night in any of them if he would actually pay up. Guess what? No response from him.

There is one haunted place where I wouldn't spend a night or a day or any other amount of time, for any amount of money: joe's delusional mind.

Dollars to donuts says that, had you actually followed through on your side of the bet, Dishonest Joe would have stiffed you on the grounds that you couldn't prove that the place that he had chosen was actually haunted.

Yep, joe is quick to challenge people to bet, fight, or whatever blustering BS pops into his feeble mind, but he always runs away.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2012,06:21   

Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,20:28)
Hey joe g, since you watch this thread, maybe you will answer these questions:

Does anything in nature 'operate freely'? If so, what, and how do you know? If not, what, and how do you know? What's your definition of "operating freely".

Also, who designed and built Stonehenge? Was it beings from another planet? How about the Nazca Lines?

Sorry TWT: if ya got NO evidence, ya don't get to ask questions.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2012,07:40   



--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2012,11:58   

Quote (Woodbine @ May 04 2012,11:58)
If memory serves, Richard Dawkins makes a distinction between replicators and reproducers.

A DNA molecule, he points out, is a replicator because it produces an exact copy of itself (under normal circumstances). Organisms cannot achieve this level of copying fidelity and so are termed 'reproducers'.

I'm buggered if I can remember in which of his books I read it, though....... ???

Joe, I'm sorry I made fun of you. Your were right, vindicated by Richard Dawkins, no less.

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2012,12:00   

Quote (afarensis @ May 04 2012,16:12)
2) Is the "Starchild" human?

Only 50%.  ;-p

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2012,15:41   

Quote (Amadan @ May 05 2012,04:21)
Quote (The whole truth @ May 04 2012,20:28)
Hey joe g, since you watch this thread, maybe you will answer these questions:

Does anything in nature 'operate freely'? If so, what, and how do you know? If not, what, and how do you know? What's your definition of "operating freely".

Also, who designed and built Stonehenge? Was it beings from another planet? How about the Nazca Lines?

Sorry TWT: if ya got NO evidence, ya don't get to ask questions.

Is that straight from the joe g rules of IDiot procedure?  :)

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
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