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k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2008,20:45   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ June 02 2008,20:22)


I heard you disappeared with a chisel and a 5 gallon tub of lube when your tour bus stopped there.  also something about crazy horse's bung.


haha this is you


You're telling the story but just for the record there are a couple of errors in that fanciful tale legend.

1. I never take tour busses .....mostly because I always forget to pick up the passengers ....so they won't let me drive them anymore AND BESIDES you only meet other tourists which no matter how fuckable they are constantly remind you of home and why you left in the first place. Plus they can't be trusted with my phone number and they know how to use google.

2. I've never called Mr. Midnight a chisel, even would lube be required.

3. Crazy Horses is booked out months in advance so if you do plan to visit Paris, get tickets in advance. The bung (with a tail) is a nice idea though.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,02:59   

BornAgain77 gets a reply to his "science via proxy" letter:
 
Quote
Dr. Cano wrote me back to say he doesn’t have an opinion one way or the other as far as gaining or losing complexity. So I asked (begged) him for more detailed information so the guys around here could do a detailed analysis of the differences. (Because of EXPELLED) I assured him that his personal opinion will be stated clearly. In which his stated opinion is firmly undecided as to whether it has gained or lost complexity.


Now, if he gets the information he wants I can't wait to see the detailed analysis that the UD gang will provide :)
Link

BA77 also said  
Quote
Gpuccio, correct me if I’m wrong but this shows a “narrowing” of flexibility for the modern bacteria thus conforming to genetic entropy.


Now, we're comparing millions of years old bacteria to "normal" bacteria here. If genetic entropy is in fact a real effect does it really matter if after millions of years you only get a "narrowing" of flexibility? It seems to me what BornAgain is going to do is disprove "genetic entropy" is real.

Go BA, go!

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,06:55   

Quote
F2XL: I will likely start responding to comments from 129 on up. It seems like there is one commenter in particular who doesn’t know how to take into account the odds of multiple events occurring.

Rather than offering an argument, F2XL hand waves.

Quote
F2XL: Nonetheless though I would like to quickly say that I agree with the notion that random number generators are pseudo-random, eventually they will repeat the same pattern if given enough trials (as far as I know).

A simple proof. Assuming finite memory (a reasonable assumption for a Pseudo-Random Number Generator), then there are a finite number of possible states of the system. At some point, it must repeat itself.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,07:06   

Quote
kairosfocus: By way of illustration, consider yourself on a raft in a vast pacific, moving at random.

In how many dimensions? Just two? How quaint.

Quote
kairosfocus: If instead you start on any given island, what are the odds that you will be able to drift at random to a remote archipelago? [Negligible]

Yet somehow the Polynesians managed to populate the Pacific Islands—long before the Age of (European) Discovery.

Quote
kairosfocus: Similarly, what are the odds that you will be able to move at random from one peak to another at random?

You forgot to account for recombination. That's the mega-dimensional interconnections that an analogy to Earth-bound archipelagos doesn't accurately represent.

Quote
kairosfocus: Such a search, on the gamut of our onbserved planet [or even cosmos] will be maximally unlikely to succeed.

Except we already know that evolutionary algorithms can successfully search spaces well in excess of the so-called Universal Probability Bound.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,07:28   

Quote
Yet somehow the Polynesians managed to populate the Pacific Islands—long before the Age of (European) Discovery.


Well, Duh.  The Gud Lard gave them a map after they climbed out of the ark.  Note that because of their shall we say colored persuasion that the polynesians are undoubtedly under the Curse of Ham.  This would explain why they do nothing but hang 10 on longboards, roast pigs and wear flower necklaces all day long, instead of more civilized exercises involving tall buildings, short hair, tax brackets and machine guns or bulldozers.

who needs a map when you have a great bearded thunderer for an interactive gazeteer?  the rise of publicly available popular maps is proof that our society is quickly degrading, avoiding the free and consummate aid of our risen haploid son of man in favor of things you can actually touch and see.  pshaw

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,07:50   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,June 03 2008,15:28)
Quote
Yet somehow the Polynesians managed to populate the Pacific Islands—long before the Age of (European) Discovery.


Well, Duh.  The Gud Lard gave them a map after they climbed out of the ark.  Note that because of their shall we say colored persuasion that the polynesians are undoubtedly under the Curse of Ham.  This would explain why they do nothing but hang 10 on longboards, roast pigs and wear flower necklaces all day long, instead of more civilized exercises involving tall buildings, short hair, tax brackets and machine guns or bulldozers.

who needs a map when you have a great bearded thunderer for an interactive gazeteer?  the rise of publicly available popular maps is proof that our society is quickly degrading, avoiding the free and consummate aid of our risen haploid son of man in favor of things you can actually touch and see.  pshaw

You forgot one important thing about Polynesians.

When Captain Cook and later English & French (remember them) explorers visited Tahiti the Captains of said ships ran into serious problems with the male crew members stealing so many iron nails to exchange for favors from the very willing female inhabitants of those islands that it became a hanging offense. Fletcher Christian himself torn between the moral imperative of the traditional ferrous Xtian restrainer and matters of the corporeal decided to steal the whole frigging boat and sail into the sunset with a whole boatload of Polys.

If anyone is planning a visit to Polynesia …make it quick the place is going under due to Global Cooling …RIGHT dt?

And don't forget Micronesia either ...it's smaller.

*edit to make micronesia bigger*

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,07:58   

Quote
haploid son of man



So you are saying Pontius Pilot  should have said

Ecce Half Homo?

or Pres. Bush our modern Imperial equivalent

"Behold, that half cocksucker Saddam Hussein  
"

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,08:52   

Gpuccio is actually trying to think this through.
Quote
gpuccio: I would really like to know your opinion aboutthe second point I make (indeed a more quantitatively relevant one), that the probability to obtain a specific single nucleotide mutation is 3 * 4.7 million, and not 3 to the 4.7 millionth power.

The reason for that is that the number of possible single mutations, with one mutational events, is exactly that: 3 * 4.7 million. Instead, 4 to the 4.7 millionth power is the total number of combinations of the whole genome, that is the whole search space. In other words, there are 4^4.7million different sequences that a genome that long can assume. That’s an important value, but it is not the one pertinent here.

Given an abstract genome, for any given sequence of length N, there are indeed only about 3*N possible point mutations. (We could add deletions and insertions, but that would still be of the same order of magnitude.) The important point is that evolution doesn't explore the entire range of sequence space, but only the very tiniest subset of the range of possibilities, 3*N (linear) compared to 3^N (exponential) in each step. Evolution will never consider the vast majority of sequences!

We can do a similar abstraction for sequence recombination, but again, each step of the search still represents the tiniest sliver when compared to an exhaustive search, N^3 (geometric) compared to 3^N (exponential). While recombination (including duplication) has the effect of allowing evolution to create and manipulate sub-modules that can then be swapped in and out.

Quote
gpuccio: Anyway, that consideration should not affect much your reasoning, because, if I am right, the real probability for a single coordinated mutation of 490 specific nucleotides, after 490 mutational events, is however low enough to give strength to any possible reasoning against chance, being (again, if I am not wrong) equal to the probability for a single mutation at the 490th power, that is about 1 : 10^3430.

Oh well. Gpuccio retreats to his preconceptions. If each step is selectable, then the odds are approximately additive, not multiplicative.

And we still haven't considered the utility of recombination.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,08:53   

You realize how totally fubar Uncommon Descent is when BA77 acts like the voice of reason:
Quote

3
DLH
06/02/2008
10:28 pm
bornagain77

Quote
Thus the YECists commit an egregious violation of . . .
what is currently known to be true in science.”


The instant violation appears to be your violation of logic.

Quote
. . .unchanging universal constants (which is what is actually at the very basis of all dating techniques)


See NIST’s Constants in the category ” Universal constants Which of those address dating methods?

Please read up on dating methods. There are many more issues in dating different from changing “universal constants”. Many are addressed in Don DeYoung’s Thousands not Billions. 2005, ISBN 0-89051-441-0.

DeYoung in Ch 9 suggests that actual evidence may fit with accelerating radioactive decay rate models.
How do you see that as any “universal constant” varying.

Some YEC may have proposed that some “constants” may be varying parameters. However, do not tar all with the same brush.

Please detail, document and support your criticism rather than trying to start a flame war.


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,09:11   

Quote (Zachriel @ June 03 2008,15:06)
 
Quote
kairosfocus: By way of illustration, consider yourself on a raft in a vast pacific, moving at random.

In how many dimensions? Just two? How quaint.


From The Hunting of the Snark by Lewis Carroll

THE BELLMAN'S SPEECH.


The Bellman himself they all praised to the skies--
 Such a carriage, such ease and such grace!
Such solemnity, too! One could see he was wise,
 The moment one looked in his face!

Kariofocus had bought a large map representing the sea,
 Without the least vestige of land:
And the crew were much pleased when they found it to be
 A map they could all understand.


"What's the good of Mercator's North Poles and Equators,
 Tropics, Zones, and Meridian Lines?"
So the Bellman would cry: and the crew would reply
  "They are merely conventional signs!

"Other maps are such shapes, with their islands and capes!
 But we've got our brave Captain to thank
(So the crew would protest) "that he's bought us the best--
 A perfect and absolute blank!"

This was charming, no doubt; but they shortly found out
 That the Captain they trusted so well
Had only one notion for crossing the ocean,
 And that was to tingle his bell.

He was thoughtful and grave--but the orders he gave
 Were enough to bewilder a crew.
When he cried "Steer to starboard, but keep her head larboard!"
 What on earth was the helmsman to do?

Then the bowsprit got mixed with the rudder sometimes:
 A thing, as the Bellman remarked,
That frequently happens in tropical climes,
 When a vessel is, so to speak, "snarked."

But the principal failing occurred in the sailing,
  And the Bellman, perplexed and distressed,
Said he had hoped, at least, when the wind blew due East,
 That the ship would not travel due West!

But the danger was past--they had landed at last,
 With their boxes, portmanteaus, and bags:
Yet at first sight the crew were not pleased with the view,
 Which consisted to chasms and crags.

The Bellman perceived that their spirits were low,
 And repeated in musical tone
Some jokes he had kept for a season of woe--
 But the crew would do nothing but groan.

He served out some grog with a liberal hand,
 And bade them sit down on the beach:
And they could not but own that their Captain looked grand,
 As he stood and delivered his speech.

"Friends, Romans, and countrymen, lend me your ears!"
 (They were all of them fond of quotations:
So they drank to his health, and they gave him three cheers,
 While he served out additional rations).

"We have sailed many months, we have sailed many weeks,
  (Four weeks to the month you may mark),
But never as yet ('tis your Captain who speaks)
 Have we caught the least glimpse of a Snark!

"We have sailed many weeks, we have sailed many days,
 (Seven days to the week I allow),
But a Snark, on the which we might lovingly gaze,
 We have never beheld till now!

"Come, listen, my men, while I tell you again
 The five unmistakable marks
By which you may know, wheresoever you go,
 The warranted genuine Snarks.

"Let us take them in order. The first is the taste,
 Which is meagre and hollow, but crisp:
Like a coat that is rather too tight in the waist,
 With a flavour of Will-o-the-wisp.

"Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
 That it carries too far, when I say
That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea,
 And dines on the following day.

"The third is its slowness in taking a jest.
 Should you happen to venture on one,
It will sigh like a thing that is deeply distressed:
 And it always looks grave at a pun.

"The fourth is its fondness for bathing-machines,
 Which is constantly carries about,
And believes that they add to the beauty of scenes--
 A sentiment open to doubt.

"The fifth is ambition. It next will be right
 To describe each particular batch:
Distinguishing those that have feathers, and bite,
 From those that have whiskers, and scratch.

"For, although common Snarks do no manner of harm,
 Yet, I feel it my duty to say,
Some are Boojums--" The Bellman broke off in alarm,
 For the Baker had fainted away.


--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,09:33   

Quote
A simple proof. Assuming finite memory (a reasonable assumption for a Pseudo-Random Number Generator), then there are a finite number of possible states of the system. At some point, it must repeat itself.


Except that random number generators don't simply spit out lists from memory. The best of them use radioactive decay events to generate binary streams.

But algorithms will do. The digits of Pi are indistinguishable from a random stream, and it is possible to jump to any arbitrary position in the binary expression of pi and begin spewing out a stream of binary digits.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,09:41   

Quote (midwifetoad @ June 03 2008,17:33)
Quote
A simple proof. Assuming finite memory (a reasonable assumption for a Pseudo-Random Number Generator), then there are a finite number of possible states of the system. At some point, it must repeat itself.


Except that random number generators don't simply spit out lists from memory. The best of them use radioactive decay events to generate binary streams.

But algorithms will do. The digits of Pi are indistinguishable from a random stream, and it is possible to jump to any arbitrary position in the binary expression of pi and begin spewing out a stream of binary digits.

Unless you use a billion monkeys to type out the Holy Bible.

teh repetition gets a little boring after a while.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,10:24   

Quote (midwifetoad @ June 03 2008,09:33)
         
Quote
A simple proof. Assuming finite memory (a reasonable assumption for a Pseudo-Random Number Generator), then there are a finite number of possible states of the system. At some point, it must repeat itself.

Except that random number generators don't simply spit out lists from memory. The best of them use radioactive decay events to generate binary streams.

Those are not usually considered pseudo-random number generators.

Quote (midwifetoad @ June 03 2008,09:33)
But algorithms will do. The digits of Pi are indistinguishable from a random stream, and it is possible to jump to any arbitrary position in the binary expression of pi and begin spewing out a stream of binary digits.

If we can prove that Pi is normal (i.e., statistical randomness of digits in a certain sense), then we could theoretically use Pi to generate non-repeating pseudo-random numbers, but we are still limited by memory as we have to at the very least increment a counter, typically starting from a very large number.

Analysis of the digits of Pi show the typical variations of random numbers, *but* that also means that the peculiarities of the early digits skews the distribution somewhat. As we can't pick a random starting digit from an infinite series, other methods can actually work better, even though most mathematicians think that Pi is normal.

Other numbers might suit. Alpha 2,3 has been proven normal. David Bailey calculated its googolth binary digit as 0.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,10:24   

A bit OT but some great research being reported on by Ed Brayton:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....hp#more

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,10:46   

HAR HAR!

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....omments


Quote
3 June 2008
Judge Tells Yoko Ono: Imagine Fair Use
DaveScot
Yoko Ono’s copyright infringement suit against the makers of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed for using 15 seconds of the Lennon song Imagine was thrown out of court. Of course we all knew it was no more than a nuisance suit brought because Ono didn’t approve of the film’s negative view of the philosophy expressed in Imagine.

Stanford Law School’s Fair Use Project: Yoko Ono’s Injunction Against “Expelled” Producers Denied

The Fair Use Project of Stanford Law School’s Center for Internet and Society today announced that Yoko Ono’s attempt to enjoin Premise Media’s documentary, “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed,” has been denied.

The film, released in the United States last month on more than 1000 theater screens nationwide, explores whether proponents of intelligent design are being discriminated against unfairly in academia and beyond. The film uses a 15-second clip from John Lennon’s song “Imagine” to criticize both the song and the anti-religious message it conveys—that the world might be a better place without religion. Ono asked the court to enjoin continued distribution of the film in its present form and to recall and destroy existing copies. The Fair Use Project is representing Premise Media and the other defendants in the case pro bono, along with the national law firm Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell LLP.

In a ruling issued today, Judge Sidney H. Stein of the U.S. District Court Southern District of New York rejected Ono’s request. In holding that Premise Media is likely to prevail under copyright’s fair use doctrine, the court recognized that the film used a limited portion of “Imagine” to criticize the song and the views expressed in it, and to make further social commentary. While the lawsuit is still pending, today’s decision helps pave the way for further distribution of the film in theaters and on DVD.

“This case is not just about fair use, it is about free speech,” explained Anthony Falzone, executive director of the Fair Use Project and lead counsel on the case. “The right to use portions of copyrighted works in order to criticize them and discuss the views they represent lies at the heart of the fair use doctrine because that right is essential to the free flow of ideas, thoughts, and debate.”
.
       

1

poachy

06/03/2008

9:41 am
Actually, Dave, the case was not thrown out of court. The judge only turned down the Ono’s request for a preliminary injunction. Indeed the press release specifically says:

“While the lawsuit is still pending, today’s decision helps pave the way for further distribution of the film in theaters and on DVD.”


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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,12:06   

DLH doesn't know what universal means, and gives The Argument Regarding Decay:

Quote
See NIST’s Constants in the category ” Universal constants Which of those address dating methods?


The decay constant for U-238 is not the same as the decay constant  for K-40 is not he same as the  constant for Pu-244 is not the same as the constant for ...

DLH also can't figure which part of the government to look at for nuclear data.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,15:30   

How stupid are young earth creationists? So stupid that bornagain77 is trying to talk some sense into them.

Quote


10

bornagain77

06/03/2008

9:53 am

Tard Alert!

DLH,
Instead of citations, I will first appeal to the heart of your reasoning.
Do you believe that sedimentary layers, cratering on the moon, weathering of the appalachian mountains, continental drift, the constant of the speed of light etc..etc..etc.. all in harmony with one another, point to a very old earth? If you do agree that they do indeed give the appearance of a very old earth, Then I must ask you. Do you think God would create a world with all the appearances of old age, when in fact the old age does not actually exist? If you maintain that this appearance of old age is so and God created it as such, Then this seems to be bordering on heresy for me, for YEC’s are in effect saying that God willingly misled us by creating an overwhelming illusion of old age. I firmly believe that overwhelming illusions are definitely not part of God’s foundational Character. i.e. (No deceit is found in Him)


eta: linky

Edited by stevestory on June 03 2008,16:31

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,15:48   

Quote (k.e.. @ June 03 2008,05:50)

If anyone is planning a visit to Polynesia …make it quick the place is going under due to Global Cooling …RIGHT dt?

And don't forget Miconesia either ...it's smaller.

I'd say that everyone who denies global warming should be shipped off to Tuvalu, except that they'd just fuck the place up:

 
Quote
Tuvalu is one of the smallest and most remote countries on earth. Located in the Pacific Ocean, it can barely be seen on most maps. The country is in danger of disappearing beneath the waves. Not an Atlantis myth but the reality of this century. Plans for evacuation are being made right now. Tuvalu is destined to become one of earth’s first nations to be washed away due to the effect of global warming, making the Tuvaluans the first complete nation of climate refugees, banned from their home-islands, their culture and identity taken away.


I guess Bill would approve of this logic:

   
Quote
Located halfway between Hawaii and Australia and once part of the British empire, Tuvalu's total land mass comprises only 26 square kilometres, scattered over 900.000 square kilometres of Pacific Ocean.
Beyond the appearance of an easygoing life, the threat to Tuvalu’s future is an obvious danger that everyone has been forced to recognize. The highest point of Tuvalu is only four and a half meters above sea level. The average elevation is not even two.
But still, in spite of the evidence of climate change, many people in Tuvalu don’t believe they will be forced to leave, and point to their bibles for proof. In the deeply Christian country, great faith is placed in the words of Genesis, which says that rainbows are proof God is keeping his covenant made with Noah to never again flood the earth.


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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,15:54   

Quote (stevestory @ June 03 2008,13:30)
How stupid are young earth creationists? So stupid that bornagain77 is trying to talk some sense into them.

   
Quote


10

bornagain77

06/03/2008

9:53 am

Tard Alert!

DLH,
Instead of citations, I will first appeal to the heart of your reasoning.
Do you believe that sedimentary layers, cratering on the moon, weathering of the appalachian mountains, continental drift, the constant of the speed of light etc..etc..etc.. all in harmony with one another, point to a very old earth? If you do agree that they do indeed give the appearance of a very old earth, Then I must ask you. Do you think God would create a world with all the appearances of old age, when in fact the old age does not actually exist? If you maintain that this appearance of old age is so and God created it as such, Then this seems to be bordering on heresy for me, for YEC’s are in effect saying that God willingly misled us by creating an overwhelming illusion of old age. I firmly believe that overwhelming illusions are definitely not part of God’s foundational Character. i.e. (No deceit is found in Him)


eta: linky

No, Steve, you don't understand. You see, God loves us so much that He created the appearance of great age on the Earth in order to trick us into believing in an old earth, so that when we die, we can be sent to undergo eternal torture in Hell for believing this.

Yeesh, how many times do I have to EXPLAIN this to you??  :angry:

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,16:35   

Quote (Richardthughes @ June 03 2008,08:24)
A bit OT but some great research being reported on by Ed Brayton:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....hp#more

My take



But get the best article by Carl Zimmer.


--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,16:55   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....omments
Quote


6

F2XL

06/03/2008

3:21 pm
...
BTW just read Traipsing Into Evolution a second time to make sure it said what I thought it said and boy does it make you wonder why nobody is holding Jones accountable.


Here's an idea, genius: nobody's holding Jones accountable because he didn't do anything wrong.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,17:12   

Quote (stevestory @ June 03 2008,16:55)
http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....omments
Quote


6

F2XL

06/03/2008

3:21 pm
...
BTW just read Traipsing Into Evolution a second time to make sure it said what I thought it said and boy does it make you wonder why nobody is holding Jones accountable.


Here's an idea, genius: nobody's holding Jones accountable because he didn't do anything wrong.

His TiaJY Fracterial Blagella has gone quiet.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,17:47   

Larry Fafarman is a tard
Quote

poachy driveled (#4) –
Quote
Thanks, Larry. It’s always good to hear a lawyer’s perspective.

And it is always bad to hear the perspective of an ignoramus like yourself. Just because I am not a lawyer does not mean that I don’t have common sense. I have been following this case diligently and it is my opinion that the judge’s decision is final. So take your sarcasm and shove it.


Is that the dread triple negative? Rare to see those in the wild.

   
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,19:29   

... how can you have an "opinion" that something is final when it's preliminary and open to appeal? That's like having an "opinion" that gravity pulls things upwards.

--------------
"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,21:01   

Quote (Annyday @ June 03 2008,20:29)
... how can you have an "opinion" that something is final when it's preliminary and open to appeal? That's like having an "opinion" that gravity pulls things upwards.

In Fundyland, there is no issue with that.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,21:55   

the following two comments have been deleted from UD:

Quote


9

Larry Fafarman

06/03/2008

4:49 pm

Tard Alert!

poachy driveled (#4) –
Quote
Thanks, Larry. It’s always good to hear a lawyer’s perspective.
And it is always bad to hear the perspective of an ignoramus like yourself. Just because I am not a lawyer does not mean that I don’t have common sense. I have been following this case diligently and it is my opinion that the judge’s decision is final. So take your sarcasm and shove it.
Quote


10

poachy

06/03/2008

6:03 pm

Tard Alert!
So take your sarcasm and shove it.

Sarcasm? Umm, okay, whatever.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,21:58   

I wonder if Davetard is gnashing his teeth about the YEC vs OEC argument on http://www.uncommondescent.com/creatio....omments that thread

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,22:06   

DLH is a tard

Quote
PS on your question: “How in the world can there be 24 hour days without a sun?”
Do you recognize evidence of a start to the universe? e.g., the background microwave radiation from a “big bang”? If so, do you see that as evidence for an original intense level of light - before there were any suns? If there were spatial variations in that light around the earth, with a rotating earth, could there be “evening and morning” without a “sun”?


Yeah. That's what was going on. The earth was bathed in an extremely anisotropic background radiation as bright as daylight. Yeah that makes sense.

   
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,22:52   

Happy anniversary Dr. Dembski      
Quote
Mr. Dembski also has little interest in publicizing his research through traditional means. "I've just gotten kind of blasé about submitting things to journals where you often wait two years to get things into print," he says. "And I find I can actually get the turnaround faster by writing a book and getting the ideas expressed there. My books sell well. I get a royalty. And the material gets read more."

Looks as if Dr. Dembski changed his mind on June 5th 2007 and now is seemingly quite willing to wait two years to get things into print:
   
Quote
Conservation of Information in Search: Measuring the Cost of Success. [posted 5jun07] Paper currently under review on the mathematical foundations of intelligent design coauthored with Robert J. Marks II. This paper develops a general method for critiquing inflated claims about the power of evolutionary computing.

This paper is still available on the publication page of the The Evolutionary Informatics Lab
     
Quote
Active Information in Evolutionary Search. [posted 5jun07] Paper currently under review on the mathematical foundations of intelligent design coauthored with Robert J. Marks II. This paper critiques Olle Häggström’s 2007 article in Biology and Philosophy titled “Intelligent Design and the NFL Theorems.”

The link leads to a paper on the publications page of the The Evolutionary Informatics Lab. However, the title is different. Currently it is titled  "The Information Cost of No Free Lunch"
         
Quote
Unacknowledged Information Costs in Evolutionary Computing: A Case Study on the Evolution of Nucleotide Binding Sites. [posted 5jun07] Paper currently under review on the mathematical foundations of intelligent design coauthored with Robert J. Marks II. This paper critiques Thomas Schneider’s 2000 article in Nucleic Acids Research titled “Evolution of Biological Information.”

This link leads into the 404-Nirvana.

365 days under review and counting. Peer review indeed is a pain in the ass.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2008,23:26   

Quote (sparc @ June 03 2008,22:52)
365 days under review and counting. Peer review indeed is a pain in the ass.

Well, it does take a while to find a peer for Dembski.  How many double doctorates in giant sweater wearing/farty-noise animation can there be?

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
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