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fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2011,20:04    Damn. There was a gorgeous, bright-peach coloured, 20-armed sea star at the job site today. No camera.  :-( -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 16 2011,13:47    Cloudy, rainy day so the nighthawks are all sitting in trees waiting for the insects to start flying again... -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,21:27    I don't really have pictures, but a couple of weeks ago a couple of baby raccoons wandered into my back yard and I couldn't get them to leave. After chasing them out a couple of times I finally had to capture them because I have a couple of big dogs that required the use of the backyard. I spent the next week trying to find someplace that rehabilitated raccoons back into the wild to take them. Finally found a place not all that far from Springfield, Mo (about 200 miles away) luckily the lady agreed to meet us half way. Then a few days later I am standing on my front porch smoking (yes I know an evil habit and I am trying to quit) when I saw something drop about 20 feet out of a tree and then fly off. Then about five minutes later it happened again. At which point I realized they were bats. In total I saw about four of them - one even came back to buzz a street lamp, I assume after some insects. I haven't seen any since so I'm thinking they were transients that had taken shelter in the tree for the day. -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

dhogaza Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,18:26    Quote Then a few days later I am standing on my front porch smoking (yes I know an evil habit...) Depends on what you're smoking :)

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,19:04    Quote (dhogaza @ June 25 2011,18:26) Quote Then a few days later I am standing on my front porch smoking (yes I know an evil habit...) Depends on what you're smoking :) cigarettes - I was worshiping the evil god Nicotine -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,19:18    Our baby robins flew the nest - there were four of them. The baby mourning doves flew off, too. We have had a bluejay, unusual for our area, in our backyard as well, picking off yellow jacket larvae. (Good! -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2011,20:32    Quote (afarensis @ June 25 2011,17:04) Quote (dhogaza @ June 25 2011,18:26)   Quote Then a few days later I am standing on my front porch smoking (yes I know an evil habit...) Depends on what you're smoking :) cigarettes - I was worshiping the evil god Nicotine you do know that's in insecticide, right? eta I get it, you were just keeping the mosquitos away... -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,08:52    A few flying insect pics from the weekend: Monarch Danaus plexippus Common Wood-nymph Cercyonis pegala (flash shot) Pearl Crescent Phyciodes tharos Male Blue Dasher Pachydiplax longipennis Blue Dasher Pachydiplax longipennis (I believe this is the female, but not sure) I think this is also a Blue Dasher, but I'm not sure. In any event, the pearly diamond tabs on the wings were just stunning, particularly showing when this guy flew. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,09:06    BTW, a question for all you experienced digital shooters: On several occasions if found that a subject that looks like it is in perfect focus through the view finder isn't actually in focus in the pic. This happens slightly more than 50% of the time I think. Any explanations and suggestions to reduce or remove this? -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,13:14    Quote (Robin @ July 18 2011,09:06) BTW, a question for all you experienced digital shooters: On several occasions if found that a subject that looks like it is in perfect focus through the view finder isn't actually in focus in the pic. This happens slightly more than 50% of the time I think. Any explanations and suggestions to reduce or remove this? Nice shots, Robin. Dragonflies can be particularly challenging, but those are great pics! Re your question, I might need more information to answer it. Are you using a camera with an optical viewfinder, or the LCD screen viewfinder? And is the camera/lens using autofocus, or are you using manual focusing? Thanks! -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,14:08    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 18 2011,13:14) Quote (Robin @ July 18 2011,09:06) BTW, a question for all you experienced digital shooters: On several occasions if found that a subject that looks like it is in perfect focus through the view finder isn't actually in focus in the pic. This happens slightly more than 50% of the time I think. Any explanations and suggestions to reduce or remove this? Nice shots, Robin. Dragonflies can be particularly challenging, but those are great pics! Thanks! I've been trying to work on my techniques with the butterflies and dragonflies. For some odd reason they tend to sit still for me. Case in point, I literally got within a 4 inches of the Pearl Crescent and shot about two dozen pics at different angles. He just didn't seem to care. Quote Re your question, I might need more information to answer it. Are you using a camera with an optical viewfinder, or the LCD screen viewfinder? Optical viewfinder. Quote And is the camera/lens using autofocus, or are you using manual focusing? I'm letting the lens autofocus. Quote Thanks! NP. Hope the answers give you an idea. Any suggestions would be most welcome. Oh...and just to add to the info in case it helps, I'm shooting a Nikon D3100. I was in the macro mode for most of this since all of the insects I shot were within 15 inches. I'm using the Nikkor 18-55mm AF-S DX f3.5-5.6G VR (Vibration Reduction). -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,14:27    Quote (Robin @ July 18 2011,14:08) Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 18 2011,13:14)   Quote (Robin @ July 18 2011,09:06) BTW, a question for all you experienced digital shooters: On several occasions if found that a subject that looks like it is in perfect focus through the view finder isn't actually in focus in the pic. This happens slightly more than 50% of the time I think. Any explanations and suggestions to reduce or remove this? Nice shots, Robin. Dragonflies can be particularly challenging, but those are great pics! Thanks! I've been trying to work on my techniques with the butterflies and dragonflies. For some odd reason they tend to sit still for me. Case in point, I literally got within a 4 inches of the Pearl Crescent and shot about two dozen pics at different angles. He just didn't seem to care.   Quote Re your question, I might need more information to answer it. Are you using a camera with an optical viewfinder, or the LCD screen viewfinder? Optical viewfinder.   Quote And is the camera/lens using autofocus, or are you using manual focusing? I'm letting the lens autofocus.   Quote Thanks! NP. Hope the answers give you an idea. Any suggestions would be most welcome. Oh...and just to add to the info in case it helps, I'm shooting a Nikon D3100. I was in the macro mode for most of this since all of the insects I shot were within 15 inches. I'm using the Nikkor 18-55mm AF-S DX f3.5-5.6G VR (Vibration Reduction). Well, if you are not using a flash  and small f/stops, or not using a tripod, when shooting small critters like insects it can be tough to hold that camera still. Or the subject moves, or the wind moves the perch, or whatever. So something that is in focus the second before you press the shutter button can be out of focus by the time your camera takes the shot. If you don't see this problem with larger subjects, or landscapes, then this could be the diagnosis. If that is the correct diagnosis, then using a flash and small f/stops to freeze small motions and give you better depth of field might solve it. Or using a tripod or beanbag to steady the camera. Or both. HTH -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,15:00    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 18 2011,14:27) Well, if you are not using a flash  and small f/stops, or not using a tripod, when shooting small critters like insects it can be tough to hold that camera still. Or the subject moves, or the wind moves the perch, or whatever. So something that is in focus the second before you press the shutter button can be out of focus by the time your camera takes the shot. If you don't see this problem with larger subjects, or landscapes, then this could be the diagnosis. If that is the correct diagnosis, then using a flash and small f/stops to freeze small motions and give you better depth of field might solve it. Or using a tripod or beanbag to steady the camera. Or both. HTH Thanks Alby! Good suggestion. I've read/heard that from other photographers as well. I'll do some comparisons with larger subjects and see if I get the effect as much. I'm pretty sure the problem is me and not the camera. Like me twitching when I hit the button or shifting my weight ever so slightly something like that. The camera is just so light that any tiny movement effortlessly wobbles it; I'm used to more heft from my days of film SLR. And it's not only light, it's really small, so I'm still getting used to holding it. But it gives me something to work on and the learning experience is fun. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 18 2011,15:14    Quote For some odd reason they tend to sit still for me. Case in point, I literally got within a 4 inches of the Pearl Crescent and shot about two dozen pics at different angles. He just didn't seem to care. I guess you didn't look hungry?

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2011,08:24    Quote (Henry J @ July 18 2011,15:14) Quote For some odd reason they tend to sit still for me. Case in point, I literally got within a 4 inches of the Pearl Crescent and shot about two dozen pics at different angles. He just didn't seem to care. I guess you didn't look hungry? Heh! Or maybe the ones I'm picking all want to be famous. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

dhogaza Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2011,13:44    Robin, remember that for small things, the ratio of the physical dimensions of the flash to the subject isn't nearly as low as when you use the flash to light a subject several feet away. That's why flash photos of macro subject tend to look more softly lit/less spectral light source than flash photos of large subjects (when the bare flash is used, the point of bouncing a flash or using a diffuser or umbrella is to increase the physical area of the light source compared to the subject). A small bracket that holds the flash at about a 45 degree angle at the front of the lens usually works pretty well.  You'd want to experiment to get just the right angle for your lens and shooting distance.  Usually the flash will light a large enough area that you don't have to fiddle with the bracket each time you find a new subject to shoot close-up.

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2011,14:01    Quote (dhogaza @ July 19 2011,13:44) Robin, remember that for small things, the ratio of the physical dimensions of the flash to the subject isn't nearly as low as when you use the flash to light a subject several feet away. That's why flash photos of macro subject tend to look more softly lit/less spectral light source than flash photos of large subjects (when the bare flash is used, the point of bouncing a flash or using a diffuser or umbrella is to increase the physical area of the light source compared to the subject). A small bracket that holds the flash at about a 45 degree angle at the front of the lens usually works pretty well.  You'd want to experiment to get just the right angle for your lens and shooting distance.  Usually the flash will light a large enough area that you don't have to fiddle with the bracket each time you find a new subject to shoot close-up. Good suggestion, though admittedly I don't normally shoot insects with a flash. I find that if the insect is near the ground or some other background, the picture tends to look a little harsh. The only pic in the group above that I used a flash on was on the Common Wood Nymph and that was only because the stupid butterfly flew into a shadowed area to look at me. Of course, I think it ended up being a nice, sharp, detailed pic, so I'm going to cut the Nymph some slack. In any event, I'll definitely keep this in mind. Thanks! -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,07:26    This guy was hanging out front of Alderman Hall. Red-tailed Hawk (Buteo jamaicensis). He even turned around for me and posed. Yesterday, there seemed to be quite a few Anhinga (Anhinga anhinga) willing to get in front of my camera down at Greenfield Lake. Here's one spear-fishing. (There are a couple more shots at the link.) And one hanging out in a Bald Cypress tree out in the middle of the lake. Here's a closer shot And here's one drying the wings between fishing expeditions. I liked this early-morning shot of a Great Blue Heron (Ardea herodias), and thought I'd share. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,07:44    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 20 2011,07:26) Red-tailed Hawk (Buteo jamaicensis). He even turned around for me and posed. Stunning shots, Lou! I love this one in particular. Can you tell me what lens you shot this guy with and the settings if you know them? -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,08:27    Sure, Robin, and thanks, btw. I link to each of my photos on Flickr when I post them here (it's actually required in Flickr's TOS). If you go to any of my photos there, just above and to the left of the photo is a drop-down menu labeled "Actions". One of the options in that menu is "View Exif Info". I leave mine public, so clicking that will get you there. Data from that page for this particular shot that might interest you (though there's plenty more there):     Quote Exif data Camera - Canon EOS 5D Mark II Lens - EF100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM Exposure - 0.017 sec (1/60) Aperture - f/5.6 Focal Length - 400 mm ISO Speed - 400 Exposure Bias - 0 EV Subject Distance - 10.8 m Metering Mode - Spot -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,09:16    Quote (Robin @ July 18 2011,09:06) BTW, a question for all you experienced digital shooters: On several occasions if found that a subject that looks like it is in perfect focus through the view finder isn't actually in focus in the pic. This happens slightly more than 50% of the time I think. Any explanations and suggestions to reduce or remove this? Another thing to consider is the number of points that are used to get a focus lock.  Being a rank amateur, I had problems with the wrong parts of pictures being in focus versus what I wanted.  I changed my camera from multiple autofocus points over to having only one point in the center of the frame.  If you want your subject to be off-center, you will need to focus before framing.  This could be a problem when you don't have alot of time to snap or have a subject moving rapidly (although using AI Servo mode may help mitigate the latter.) -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,10:00    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 20 2011,08:27) Sure, Robin, and thanks, btw. I link to each of my photos on Flickr when I post them here (it's actually required in Flickr's TOS). If you go to any of my photos there, just above and to the left of the photo is a drop-down menu labeled "Actions". One of the options in that menu is "View Exif Info". I leave mine public, so clicking that will get you there. Data from that page for this particular shot that might interest you (though there's plenty more there): Thanks! Next time I'll search more in the Flicker page. I'm just trying to get an idea of how certain settings effect the pictures. For example, I was under the impression that pictures tended to come out a bit sharper if one shoots in the middle of a lens' focal range (using the "sweet spot" as it were, usually around F8 or so), but this pic indicates otherwise. Clearly the lens and photographer have some impact as well.   -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,10:03    Quote (carlsonjok @ July 20 2011,09:16) Quote Another thing to consider is the number of points that are used to get a focus lock.  Being a rank amateur, I had problems with the wrong parts of pictures being in focus versus what I wanted.  I changed my camera from multiple autofocus points over to having only one point in the center of the frame.  If you want your subject to be off-center, you will need to focus before framing.  This could be a problem when you don't have alot of time to snap or have a subject moving rapidly (although using AI Servo mode may help mitigate the latter.) Actually, this is a really good point Carlson and something I've been concerned about myself. I need to pay more attention to that because in a number of situations (and you can see this in a few of my dragonfly shots) there are quite a few other objects to focus on - usually leaves and branches or blades of grass. Thanks for the suggestion! -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,10:42    Quote (Robin @ July 20 2011,11:00) Quote (Lou FCD @ July 20 2011,08:27) Sure, Robin, and thanks, btw. I link to each of my photos on Flickr when I post them here (it's actually required in Flickr's TOS). If you go to any of my photos there, just above and to the left of the photo is a drop-down menu labeled "Actions". One of the options in that menu is "View Exif Info". I leave mine public, so clicking that will get you there. Data from that page for this particular shot that might interest you (though there's plenty more there): Thanks! Next time I'll search more in the Flicker page. I'm just trying to get an idea of how certain settings effect the pictures. For example, I was under the impression that pictures tended to come out a bit sharper if one shoots in the middle of a lens' focal range (using the "sweet spot" as it were, usually around F8 or so), but this pic indicates otherwise. Clearly the lens and photographer have some impact as well.  :) Well, personally, unless I have a very specific reason not to, I jack my aperture wide open and leave it there. I probably shoot with a wide open aperture 99% of the time. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,11:30    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 20 2011,10:42) Quote Well, personally, unless I have a very specific reason not to, I jack my aperture wide open and leave it there. I probably shoot with a wide open aperture 99% of the time. Ahhh...well, then clearly my inference and some of the other bits I've read are wrong then! Good to know. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,14:47    Quote (Robin @ July 18 2011,09:52) pics of dragonflies hard to tell from the angles but the first one might be slaty skimmer not blue dasher the next two might be pondhawks.  at any rate they are both males.  check it http://homepage.mac.com/edlam/dragonfly.html this cat is crazy good -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2011,15:22    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,July 20 2011,14:47)   Quote (Robin @ July 18 2011,09:52) pics of dragonflies hard to tell from the angles but the first one might be slaty skimmer not blue dasher the next two might be pondhawks.  at any rate they are both males.  check it http://homepage.mac.com/edlam/dragonfly.html this cat is crazy good HOLY! That is some amazing stuff! I feel depressed now.   At any rate, that's a much better source than the one I've been using. I agree on the Slaty Skimmer for the first one, but I don't think that the other two are pondhawks. Maybe Spangled Skimmers. That is some collection of shots though. Wow! Thanks! -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 31 2011,09:49    Okay, so he isn't really an example of "wildlife", except at dinner time, but he is a critter.  This is one of the puppies from the last litter I bred.  He finished his AKC conformation championship in Pennsylvania this morning (if anybody cares about such nonsense) and I'm very proud of him, not only for his being so beautiful and gaining his title at such a young age, but for being such a sweet, wonderful pet for his doting owner who exhibits him herself, going up against "professionals" who show other people's dogs for lots of money (upwards of $100 for 2 minutes in the show ring). So, here is "Jude" in the show ring yesterday: And Jude as an 8 week old baby at my home in Florida in the summer of 2009: Thanks for indulging me.   -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 31 2011,13:54    Beautiful dog. Congratulations. We have a mated pair of downy woodpeckers in the neighborhood. I see them in the willows around the house, but have never managed a photo. Fishing on Wednesday afternoon, I also snagged 2 Brown Pelicans, 3 Brandt's Cormorants, 1 each of California and Heermann's Gulls, and 1 Common Tern. They were all released with out incident. Actually, I think one of the cormorants was caught twice by me, and two or three other times by other people on the boat. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 31 2011,21:12    Quote (Wolfhound @ July 31 2011,09:49) Okay, so he isn't really an example of "wildlife", except at dinner time, but he is a critter.  This is one of the puppies from the last litter I bred.  He finished his AKC conformation championship in Pennsylvania this morning (if anybody cares about such nonsense) and I'm very proud of him, not only for his being so beautiful and gaining his title at such a young age, but for being such a sweet, wonderful pet for his doting owner who exhibits him herself, going up against "professionals" who show other people's dogs for lots of money (upwards of $100 for 2 minutes in the show ring). Looks pretty wild to me, Wolfie! Congrats on raising such a fine pup. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

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