Lou FCD
Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006
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Raw notes, from the time Twitter Expelled me to when my battery ran out just before they cut off questions.
I was trying to type as fast as I could to get it all down and not miss anything, so it's a little hard to tell where I've interjected my own comments.
where it says (up to) means that the quote appeared without ellipses to that point. I didn't have time to type the whole quote out as it appeared, so I would type the beginning, then (up to) then the part right before the ellipses, the ellipses, the part right after the ellipses (up to) and the end of the quote.
Forgive the typos.
I'll try and clean it all up tomorrow.
20090226
Michael Behe @ UNCW.
Sitting with Doc and Paul Flocken and JP
200ish in attendance, Doc spots no Bio dept faculty.
Twitter just cut me off after watching the definition of IC evolve (again) right before my eyes.
Peter Atkins review of DBB on infidels.org graphic
brags about lack of imagination, says evolution is fantasy.
Quotes Ken Miller. “Behe argues that MacDonald's (up to) Behe would be right.”
“If simpler version (up to) as well... elipsis and this means that (up to) precursors.
Says Ken Miller misquoted him. Puts up Miller's photo of the tie clip.
Repeats lie, and just changed the definition of IC again. (twice in one night)
Now it's “if any of the parts are missing, they don't function the same as a system any more”.
I was going to talk about Edge
I want to move beyond the “he said she said”
Over his alloted time.
“Darwinism” is a multipart theory. Some parts may be right others wrong.
Common descent (interesting but trivial)
Natural selection (interesting but trivial)
Random mutation
The critical claim of Darwinism
Infection of a human by the malaria parasite Plasmodium falciparum
People have evolved resistance to malaria. Sickle cell. Some IDiot laughed. Whoops. Guess he didn't know Behe accepts evolution.
Red blood cells “If you get two doses of sickle cell..”? Did he just say “two doses”? Funny.
Hemoglobin, G6PD, some others listed missed them
Much Darwinian evolution proceeds by breaking old genes
Disabling a gene will occur at a rate hundereds of times faster than making a specific change in a gene
Very very few of possible accessible mutatioins are helfpul.
Random changes are incoherent
Random mutation in a china shop. (image of a bull)
Lenski and his 20 year experiment on E. coli.
40,000 generations some idiot is laughing, because he has no idea what'sgoing on.
Lenski has seen beneficial mutations. Behe just admitted this? Yes, he did.
But that doesn't tell you how you make a new gene. “you can get something helpful by breaking something”
He just chucked ID under the bus. Don't worry, nobody noticed. Plenty of books sales to follow.
Still yacking, way over his time, limiting Q and A (DI's latest tactic?)
Shows a blown bridge, compares it to “Darwinian Evolution” but that doesn't give an idea how to build a bridge.
Just one lie after another, and not one new argument.
“I have answered what I consider to be more interesting objections on my blog on Amazon”
Doesn't mention the censoring of critics.
Finished.
Q and A?
Two guys lined up at the microphones. Art dude lays down ground rules that amount to “don't ask inconvenient questions”
First question: You don't reject the view that diversity of species owes to evolution but you're not on board with creation? What is the physical process of ID and what are the steps to get from one species to another?
The short answer is 'we don't know'. In the history of science, that's ok.
Creobot in front of Doc says “it's better than BSing.” I say, “You just sat through an hour and a half of BS” Dude: “that's your view' Me: “No, that's the science” Him: “”. lulz
Behe still blathering, big bang, blah not answering the question. Big bang started by something outside of nature. Still blathering. Been 5 minutes, still hasn't talked about species. Cannonballs? We still don't know what caused the Big Bang. “To answer your question, I don't know what the answer is” Unfolding of a planned universe. Or maybe something happened along the way.
Dude is still after him. “You're an evolutionist, but God could have shown up went on vacation and left”
I don't like evolutionist as a term for me, I think the earth is old accept common descent. Minnesota Fats can sink pool balls, just extrapolate.
ID is not concerned with process as much as end product. Purposeful arrangement of parts. Jungle trap. We don't know who did it.
You need more evidence to answer the who what where when why.
Disemble, disemble,
Next question
So you don't like the mechanism darwinian evolution, but you don't haave aa mechanism for it... genrate testable predcitions, evilution can do it, but I would think as a scientist, I would think you would support an even better theory. Where is the evidence?
Behe: blah blah Mechanism. “I don't have a mechanism to substitute for the Darwinian mechanism.” Direct quote. Newton. Newton didn't know. “You don't you need a mechanism. It'd be nice.” Quantum mechanics.
Testable predictions: That's lumped in with falsifying. Popper. ID is easily falsified. Conversely, Darwin claims are not easily falsifyable. Flagellum.
I said the BacFlag was IC and therefore requires design, all someone has to do is show that it could arise without design.
Lenski. No bacs grew a flag or complex motility system. But if lenski grew a bunch of bacs that didn't do much, would he say that Darwin was wrong? No, he'd make excuses.
Evidence for common descent is not evidence for Darwinism. Teleological process, Darwin's claim to fame was that it could happen without design.
ID doesn't challenge evolution. It just focuses on unintelligent design. People confuse common descent with darwinism.
New dude: spontaneous order, an individual loses their eyesight, senses transfer to hearing, isn't this an example of Darwinism?
Behe: No, not because of random mutation nat sel, the ability was already present, not what Darwin meant.
New Dude: HIV, someone in the family died this week. Evolutionary Biology, according to evolutionary biology says that HIV comes from some predecessor. That provided a research program. Let's look at the closest relative. Cousin doesn't kill chimpanzees. So I question this, this is an example that Darwinian evolution producing a research program to help people. What's ID done?
Behe: big sigh, I want to stress, but the talk goes quickly, but ID doesn't say that Darwinian evolution can't do anything, just not everything. Accepts genetic change, common descent, but at the molecular level,, evolutiion is breaking things. Doesn't explain molecular machinery.
In Hiv it evolves, rapidly, and it looks like it came from chimps, made the leap, rabies, not unique, at the molecular level just takes a couple changes in a preexisting protein....
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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?
Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend
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