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+--Forum: After the Bar Closes...
+---Topic: Biological Information: New Perspectives started by Wesley R. Elsberry
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 05 2012,07:36
Around June 4, 2011, the usual gaggle of antievolutionists held a closed invitation-only meeting in a rented space at Cornell University. The putative topic of discussion was "Biological Information". After the conference, they set about getting their "conference papers" published by a scientific publisher. In various places around the web, little bits of discussion turned up describing how detractors and critics had been kept out, that the unadulterated antievolution objections would be published by a major publisher not yet to be named, and that all that was needed for this plan to come to fruition was to keep the publisher's name quiet until the volume was printed.
Last week, the major scientific publisher was revealed to be Springer Verlag. Springer automatically generates pre-publication announcements for forthcoming books, so in the course of time going on, the book description popped up on Springer's web site and on Amazon.com. The cat was out of the bag.
Nick Matzke posted on Panda's Thumb that Springer had managed to get suckered by a batch of creationists. Within 24 hours, the Springer page for the book was taken down. In news reports, Springer said that the editorial staff was sending the material out for further review.
On the Discovery Institute blog, a knee-jerk post complaining about "censorship!" went up momentarily, was crawled by the Google bot, and then was taken down. Somebody on the religious antievolution side of the fence figured out, belatedly, that the best shot at getting pretty much what they thought they had in the bag would be aided by not stirring up controversy themselves. And the word appears to be going out to the faithful that it should be so. The various places where gloating comments about the conference and subsequent publication suddenly had the comments or posts deleted. Anything that can provide a record of the intentional subterfuge and misleading material provided to Springer is being expunged even now.
So this thread is open to archive and preserve that record as best we can manage, scraping sources from Google cache to Internet Archive. Please post any finds you make here.
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 05 2012,07:45
Over on TheologyWeb, "Jorge" had posted a bit of information about conference. He had requested that the moderators delete his thread, which they did. Then "Tiggy" posted a copy of "Jorge"'s post. "Jorge" has requested that that be taken down. I'll post it here, just in case TheologyWeb is inclined to < remove it >.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
You last visited: Today at 09:18 AM All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:18 AM. Forum Science Building Natural Science 301 Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience
Page 1 of 3123LastResults 1 to 15 of 43 Thread: Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience Enrolled: January 17th, 2004 Posts: 7,680 Male personal x Amen 806 Times in 529 PostsTiggy Online Thread Owner March 3rd 2012 12:48 PM Post: #1 Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience This particular bit of Creationist dishonesty needs to be archived.
Jorge recently started a thread, then for some reason demanded that it be deleted:
Jump to Post Originally posted by Jorge
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
1. I had promised you that the two papers that I co-authored would soon be published, remember?
Well, publication has occurred and release is supposed to be very soon - within days. However ...
2. ... we may be witnessing in real time another episode of 'EXPELLED'.
3. The Proceedings from the symposium, contained in a book titled Biological Information: New Perspectives, is now encountering the usual attempts at censorship practiced by the 'Thought Police' -- you know, the type of censorship that the Evo-Faithful loudly deny happens at all.
4. This was strictly a scientific symposium -- I know, I was there from start to finish. Every paper was scrutinized to be/remain science ... pure science.
5. The publisher is Springer-Verlag. I assure you, the papers were heavily peer-reviewed. But guess what? They now want to do additional peer-review because of "complaints". OMG !
6. The Evo-Faithful complain that intelligent design isn't science "because it's not peer-reviewed." When it is peer-reviewed, they say, "It shouldn't have been peer-reviewed because it's not science."
Now where did I put my shotgun?
7. In passing, do you see why I use the term "dishonest" as often as I do? Do you? Huh? Do you? It fits!
8. Lastly, wanna guess who's already involved? Yup, you guessed it, the NCSE : the 'witch' and her broomstick.
9. More details here : < http://the-scientist.com/2012.......id-book >
10. This could turn ugly, very ugly ... stay tuned ...
Jorge
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Turns out the DI and Jorge are attempting to cover up the latest bit of Creationist dishonesty.
The IDCers submitted this batch of "papers" from Jorge's recent Intelligent Design Creation conference to Springer in book form called Biological Information: New Perspectives. Apparently the work was deliberately misrepresented as being from a conference sponsored by Cornell, not merely held on the Cornell campus in publicly available rental space.
The book was mistakenly tentatively accepted by some junior editors at Springer based on the Cornell name. When the truth of the matter became clear, Springer pulled the advance notice of the book.
As reported by Allan MacNeill at Panda's thumb:
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
From the very few bits of information I have been able to gather, the symposium was apparently held in the Statler Auditorium in the School of Hotel Administration at the Ithaca campus. Unlike most of the large lecture halls at Cornell, the Statler Auditorium can be rented by outside groups for non-university functions. I know this because I have performed there with the Ithaca Ballet, which used to rent the hall for their local performances. Ergo, it appears that John Sanford and the symposium organizers rented the hall and are now claiming that the event was somehow a Cornell event rather than an event held in a rented hall at Cornell.
Statler Auditorium has almost 900 seats, but in looking at the housing reservation at one of the links above, there were apparently only 42 attendees (and that may also include the presenters), so the auditorium would have looked a littlewell, shall we say sparse?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
link
Lots more info at
Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience
Update on Springer Biological Information: New Perspectives Volume
and here
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Score one for science this week. Evolutionary biologists were horrified by the news that a scholarly press was going to publish a work in favor of intelligent design. But a spokesman for the publishing house confirmed to Inside Higher Ed Wednesday that the books publication is on hold as it is subjected to further peer review.
Earlier this week, the Pandas Thumb, a blog about evolutionary theory, posted an item about a forthcoming book from Springer called Biological Information: New Perspectives. The blog-poster and other commenters said the book was a compilation of articles by creationists and intelligent-design proponents and Springer had no business publishing such "creationist pseudoscience."
Eric Merkel-Sobotta, executive vice president of corporate communications at Springer in Germany, said in an e-mail, that the initial proposal for the book was peer-reviewed by two independent reviewers. However, once the complete manuscript had been submitted, the series editors became aware that additional peer review would be necessary, Merkel-Sobotta said. This is currently underway, and the automatically generated pre-announcement for the book on Springer has been removed until the peer-reviewers have made their final decision.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
full story
Looks like the DI has gone into full damage control / spin mode.
My guess is that Cornell found out about how its name was being misused and threatened to sue the pants off the DI and the folks who dishonestly misued the connection. All across the web Creationist sites like this one are now erasing all mention of Cornell and issuing disclaimers for CYA purposes.
Too funny!
- T
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
As someone who has publicly commented on this issue, I find "Jorge"'s "shotgun" comment above to be a palpable threat. I consider this "fair use" of his commentary.
Posted by: Dr.GH on Mar. 05 2012,07:53
"Jorge" is a particularly strange person. If he was a contributer to this "scientific" conference, I know it was a fraud.
Posted by: midwifetoad on Mar. 05 2012,08:04
< http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y202707 >
I think this is relevant.
Posted by: DiEb on Mar. 05 2012,08:21
My favorite: < http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?....he:http >
Sid Galloway (Just an OLD sheepdog of the GOOD SHEPHERD) describes his attendance of the symposium:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Biological Information - New Perspectives Symposium
Sid Galloway BS, M.Div
The following Bio-Info conference was an inspiring example of truly critical, logikos thinking in the scientific community. The symposium was not sponsored by Cornell, though Dr. John Sanford, Cornell geneticist and inventor of the Gene Gun was a principle coordinator. (Sanford is the inventor of the Biolistic Gene Gun for genetic engineering, Cornell professor for 30 years, 80 scientific papers, 30 patents, and author of GENETIC ENTROPY: The Mystery of the Genome.
Thank you to all who prayed for this event, and who helped reduce my expenses.
It was a privilege being invited to attend the BI-NP Symposium at Cornell University last summer. Twenty-three scientists from around the world, representing various fields of science presented to attendees from many countries, including Korea, China, Germany, Canada, United Kingdom, Russia, and the United States. Among those attending, 50% were PhDs, 25% were PhD candidates, and the rest were an assortment of diverse individuals - the least among them - me.
The BINPS at Cornell University was a purely scientific conference, with no public elements of religion in the presentations or discussion. However, there was a great deal of fruitful private dialogue involving philosophical, theological, and teleological implications among presenters and attendees during our free time. The coordinators decision to eliminate any public religious content was understandable given their sincere commitment as a group to trace only the "science" evidence to its best and most logical conclusion (IBE Inference to the Best Explanation.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
(read the rest under the link to the google cache...)
Posted by: Occam's Aftershave on Mar. 05 2012,08:32
Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 05 2012,07:53) | "Jorge" is a particularly strange person. If he was a contributer to this "scientific" conference, I know it was a fraud. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge Fernandez is a real piece of work. Besides being a YEC, he also went in with Werner Gitt to publish yet another book on why "information" proves ToE impossible.
The funny part was on the book's cover Jorge had himself listed as a PhD. Turns out his "Doctorate" was purchased from an unaccredited on-line diploma mill.
Posted by: midwifetoad on Mar. 05 2012,08:48
That page really needs to be save in its entirety, because google will clear it from the cache upon request of the author.
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 05 2012,10:09
I sent this email to one of the senior editors at Springer on the 27th Feb:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Hi!
(I'm not sure if you're the correct person to contact about this, if you're not, could you pass this on to whoever is responsible).
I've just found out about your forthcoming book "Biological Information:
New Perspectives" (http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+comp lexity/book/978-3-642-28453-3). This has the potential to be a controversial text (as the editors are all active in pushing Intelligent Design), so I'm wondering why it's being published as an engineering text, rather than biology: it would seem to be a better fit there.
Thanks in advance. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
and got a reply from a different senior editor on the 28th:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Dear Bob,
thank you for your important mail concerning the planned book "Biological Information: New Perspectives".
The book has been acquired and reviewed by our experienced series editors of the book series "Intelligent Systems Reference Library" so it was a natural choice to publish it there under the umbrella of applied sciences. Thank you for your very valuable remark concerning Intelligent design, we will doublecheck the situation with the reviewers and the book editors and definitely will add a suitable Biology code. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Which I read as saying that they weren't previously aware of the ID link.
Posted by: Kattarina98 on Mar. 05 2012,10:27
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 05 2012,10:09) | ... The book has been acquired ... ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Uh-oh - they actually paid in advance for this crap?
Posted by: oldmanintheskydidntdoit on Mar. 05 2012,10:46
< http://liveweb.archive.org/http...........ttp >
On that page is this text:
This document has a Mr. Galloway saying (presumably same person who wrote the above):
---------------------QUOTE------------------- PLEASE PRAY FOR MY TRIP TO CORNELL UNIVERSITY FOR THE: "BIOLOGICAL INFORMATION - NEW PERSPECTIVES SYMPOSIUM" ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
< http://tinyurl.com/85l3sq7....85l3sq7 >
Seems the people attending sure thought it was an official Cornell symposium.
Depending on who set it up this could be the clincher: < http://tinyurl.com/7w2cztu....7w2cztu >
< >
but maybe it's standard stuff.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 05 2012,11:32
Here's a copy of Jorge's post from June 2011:
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 05 2012,11:34
Phanks reaction
and Jorge's reply
ETA < link >
Posted by: OgreMkV on Mar. 05 2012,11:50
Seriously, anyone who has a clue about what is going on knows who Coppedge is and exactly why he was fired (and what's he trying to do to get the court's to allow ID related testimony in what is, essentially, a harrasement case).
Why withhold his name and then give so much information that anyone can figure it out.
You know once the conference is over, a lot of this stuff is posted on the internet.
Did anyone take video of the speakers? Anyone get copies of the powerpoint slides? Maybe even pictures of the attendees at a local hangout (or church in this case)?
Until I get some actual information, I'm not even sure that we can support the claim that this event actually occurred.
Posted by: Woodbine on Mar. 05 2012,13:06
Here's a link to a thread at FRDB 'bigging' up the event back in June last year (apologies if you're already familiar with it)....
< Anti neo-Darwinian papers coming! >
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 05 2012,14:16
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 05 2012,07:45) | Over on TheologyWeb, "Jorge" had posted a bit of information about conference. He had requested that the moderators delete his thread, which they did. Then "Tiggy" posted a copy of "Jorge"'s post. "Jorge" has requested that that be taken down. I'll post it here, just in case TheologyWeb is inclined to < remove it >.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
You last visited: Today at 09:18 AM All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:18 AM. Forum Science Building Natural Science 301 Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience
Page 1 of 3123LastResults 1 to 15 of 43 Thread: Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience Enrolled: January 17th, 2004 Posts: 7,680 Male personal x Amen 806 Times in 529 PostsTiggy Online Thread Owner March 3rd 2012 12:48 PM Post: #1 Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience This particular bit of Creationist dishonesty needs to be archived.
Jorge recently started a thread, then for some reason demanded that it be deleted:
Jump to Post Originally posted by Jorge
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
1. I had promised you that the two papers that I co-authored would soon be published, remember?
Well, publication has occurred and release is supposed to be very soon - within days. However ...
2. ... we may be witnessing in real time another episode of 'EXPELLED'.
3. The Proceedings from the symposium, contained in a book titled Biological Information: New Perspectives, is now encountering the usual attempts at censorship practiced by the 'Thought Police' -- you know, the type of censorship that the Evo-Faithful loudly deny happens at all.
4. This was strictly a scientific symposium -- I know, I was there from start to finish. Every paper was scrutinized to be/remain science ... pure science.
5. The publisher is Springer-Verlag. I assure you, the papers were heavily peer-reviewed. But guess what? They now want to do additional peer-review because of "complaints". OMG !
6. The Evo-Faithful complain that intelligent design isn't science "because it's not peer-reviewed." When it is peer-reviewed, they say, "It shouldn't have been peer-reviewed because it's not science."
Now where did I put my shotgun?
7. In passing, do you see why I use the term "dishonest" as often as I do? Do you? Huh? Do you? It fits!
8. Lastly, wanna guess who's already involved? Yup, you guessed it, the NCSE : the 'witch' and her broomstick.
9. More details here : < http://the-scientist.com/2012.......id-book >
10. This could turn ugly, very ugly ... stay tuned ...
Jorge
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Turns out the DI and Jorge are attempting to cover up the latest bit of Creationist dishonesty.
The IDCers submitted this batch of "papers" from Jorge's recent Intelligent Design Creation conference to Springer in book form called Biological Information: New Perspectives. Apparently the work was deliberately misrepresented as being from a conference sponsored by Cornell, not merely held on the Cornell campus in publicly available rental space.
The book was mistakenly tentatively accepted by some junior editors at Springer based on the Cornell name. When the truth of the matter became clear, Springer pulled the advance notice of the book.
As reported by Allan MacNeill at Panda's thumb:
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
From the very few bits of information I have been able to gather, the symposium was apparently held in the Statler Auditorium in the School of Hotel Administration at the Ithaca campus. Unlike most of the large lecture halls at Cornell, the Statler Auditorium can be rented by outside groups for non-university functions. I know this because I have performed there with the Ithaca Ballet, which used to rent the hall for their local performances. Ergo, it appears that John Sanford and the symposium organizers rented the hall and are now claiming that the event was somehow a Cornell event rather than an event held in a rented hall at Cornell.
Statler Auditorium has almost 900 seats, but in looking at the housing reservation at one of the links above, there were apparently only 42 attendees (and that may also include the presenters), so the auditorium would have looked a littlewell, shall we say sparse?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
link
Lots more info at
Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience
Update on Springer Biological Information: New Perspectives Volume
and here
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Score one for science this week. Evolutionary biologists were horrified by the news that a scholarly press was going to publish a work in favor of intelligent design. But a spokesman for the publishing house confirmed to Inside Higher Ed Wednesday that the books publication is on hold as it is subjected to further peer review.
Earlier this week, the Pandas Thumb, a blog about evolutionary theory, posted an item about a forthcoming book from Springer called Biological Information: New Perspectives. The blog-poster and other commenters said the book was a compilation of articles by creationists and intelligent-design proponents and Springer had no business publishing such "creationist pseudoscience."
Eric Merkel-Sobotta, executive vice president of corporate communications at Springer in Germany, said in an e-mail, that the initial proposal for the book was peer-reviewed by two independent reviewers. However, once the complete manuscript had been submitted, the series editors became aware that additional peer review would be necessary, Merkel-Sobotta said. This is currently underway, and the automatically generated pre-announcement for the book on Springer has been removed until the peer-reviewers have made their final decision.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
full story
Looks like the DI has gone into full damage control / spin mode.
My guess is that Cornell found out about how its name was being misused and threatened to sue the pants off the DI and the folks who dishonestly misued the connection. All across the web Creationist sites like this one are now erasing all mention of Cornell and issuing disclaimers for CYA purposes.
Too funny!
- T
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
As someone who has publicly commented on this issue, I find "Jorge"'s "shotgun" comment above to be a palpable threat. I consider this "fair use" of his commentary. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
< Tiggy > re-posted Jorge's post which d< rives Jorge mad >:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I do not know why this thread / OP is still active. I have TWICE requested the mods to remove it.
I requested that they remove my thread and they complied. In Tiggy's typical unethical style, he circumvented the intent of the law by reposting in his own thread my OP -- an OP that had been previously REMOVED by the mods.
I am hereby requesting for the THIRD TIME that the moderators of this forum remove this thread or at the very least my words (Items 1-10) which have previously been deleted from this forum.
Thank you.
Jorge ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
(emphasis by Jorge)
Luckily the moderators denied to delete Tiggy's thread because he only cited what Jorge already disclosed.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 05 2012,14:32
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 05 2012,10:09) | I sent this email to one of the senior editors at Springer on the 27th Feb:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Hi!
(I'm not sure if you're the correct person to contact about this, if you're not, could you pass this on to whoever is responsible).
I've just found out about your forthcoming book "Biological Information:
New Perspectives" (http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+comp lexity/book/978-3-642-28453-3). This has the potential to be a controversial text (as the editors are all active in pushing Intelligent Design), so I'm wondering why it's being published as an engineering text, rather than biology: it would seem to be a better fit there.
Thanks in advance. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
and got a reply from a different senior editor on the 28th:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Dear Bob,
thank you for your important mail concerning the planned book "Biological Information: New Perspectives".
The book has been acquired and reviewed by our experienced series editors of the book series "Intelligent Systems Reference Library" so it was a natural choice to publish it there under the umbrella of applied sciences. Thank you for your very valuable remark concerning Intelligent design, we will doublecheck the situation with the reviewers and the book editors and definitely will add a suitable Biology code. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Which I read as saying that they weren't previously aware of the ID link. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
The reply I obtained was similar.
Posted by: Starbuck on Mar. 05 2012,14:41
The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux?
Posted by: Occam's Aftershave on Mar. 05 2012,14:51
Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,14:41) | The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
It's a sure bet that there's money and lawyers involved. The only real question is who's suing who.
Posted by: Dr.GH on Mar. 05 2012,15:00
Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,12:41) | The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
It won't be Dover II. It cannot be.
Posted by: JohnW on Mar. 05 2012,15:17
Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,12:41) | The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Suing a publisher because they chose to reject something would be... interesting. I'm sure the outcome would be eagerly awaited by the Timecube guy, and green-ink-on-the-back-of-napkin MS writers everywhere. I don't think the rest of us need to be concerned.
My father-in-law was a law professor. He maintained that judges should have a third verdict option in lawsuits: "finding for the plaintiff", "finding for the defendant", and "get out of my court." This would be a good example of option 3.
Posted by: Erasmus, FCD on Mar. 05 2012,15:25
Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,15:41) | The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Oh dear designer please let it be so
Posted by: noncarborundum on Mar. 05 2012,15:36
Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 05 2012,15:17) | Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,12:41) | The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Suing a publisher because they chose to reject something would be... interesting. I'm sure the outcome would be eagerly awaited by the Timecube guy, and green-ink-on-the-back-of-napkin MS writers everywhere. I don't think the rest of us need to be concerned.
My father-in-law was a law professor. He maintained that judges should have a third verdict option in lawsuits: "finding for the plaintiff", "finding for the defendant", and "get out of my court." This would be a good example of option 3. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I recently saw this referred to as dismissal on the grounds of "what the fuck is wrong with you?"
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 05 2012,18:36
From Creation/Evolution Headlines there's this < at-the-time brag >:
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Biological Information Symposium a Success Posted on June 4, 2011 in Biology, Biomimetics, Cell Biology, Darwin and Evolution, Education, Genetics, Humanity, Intelligent Design, Issues, Microbiology, Mind and Brain, Origin of Life, Origins, Philosophy of Science
Friday morning June 4, participants were on their way homes across America and in Europe from a successful conference entitled Biological Information: New Perspectives. They had come to hear leading lights in the Intelligent Design movement deliver 27 scientific presentations on a variety of subtopics under the umbrella theme of information in biology. From all appearances, everyone had a great time of fellowship, encouragement and intellectual stimulation. No protestors or critics detracted from the eventpartly because it was not widely advertised, in order to protect the identity of those wanting to take part without jeopardizing their careers. The event was held at Cornell University beginning Monday night May 30 and concluding Thursday June 2.
The symposium centered around three themes: (1) Information theory and biology, (2) information and genetic theory, and (3) theoretical biology. Speakers from disciplines as diverse as thermodynamics, mathematics, linguistics, computer science, genetics, and of course biology presented their experimental findings and theories. Attempts were made to define information in robust ways, to compare and contrast cybernetic and biological information, and to describe levels of information coding in the cell. Computer models of evolution were critiqued, as were attempts to generate information by non-intelligent causes. Not every speaker was a proponent of intelligent design, but all believed it is an idea worth taking seriously.
Speakers and the audience had been instructed to steer clear of religious issues. The focus was on the science, and the content was as rigorous as that of any science symposium. While many well-known spokespersons for intelligent design led the way, there was a notable presence of young scientists with even more enthusiasm for the new design-based approaches to biology than the seniors. Their energy was palpable in breakout sessions and lunchtime conversations. Because of potential harm to careers of some participants, names of all are being withheld from this review.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
One thing is clear from this symposium: design scientists have more fun. It was an upbeat event. There was no lack of argumentation and disagreement, but it was all constructive and respectful, with the energetic give-and-take producing light, not heat. The social events were delightful, too. Cornell is a beautiful campus. Theres evidence for intelligent design all over the grounds, especially in the universitys gardens and native plant collections. A river runs through the middle of the campus and pours over several cascades.
Interestingly, there was a notable absence of participants from Cornell or the Ithaca area. It appears very likely that many who might have otherwise have attended were afraid of negative professional consequences arising from being associated in any way with this event of its participants..
Take heart, though. It was like that before Soviet communism fell. The last years of the Iron Curtain were fierce; many individuals suffered persecution, and many lived in a state of fear. The Soviet bloc seemed impregnable. Then, perestroika and glasnost came as reality set in that communism wasnt working. Within just a couple of years, thanks to pressure from Reagan and internal pressure from freedom loving unions, the Berlin wall fell. The world watched in astonishment as the Soviet Union unraveled in a precipitous and momentous collapse, and long-denied freedoms saw the light of a new day. It can happen with Darwinismunless vigilance gives way to complacency, challenge to comfort, love for truth to fear of criticism. This is no time to cower in retreat; its time to charge!
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 05 2012,18:40
From EvolutionFairyTale, here's a < "how we're going to pull off the big one" brag >:
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
performedge Don - a Child of the King Veteran Member
400 posts Gender:Male Location:South Carolina Interests:Being a logician. Debating the origins controversy. Going to heaven. Taking others with me. Seeing the creator. Age: 48 Christian Young Earth Creationist Rock Hill, SC Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:45 PM
Spectre, on Jun 9 2011, 12:53 AM, said:
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Good question, I was trying to search through google for such conventions but I have not found any results at all.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Yes, sorry guys.
The place: Cornell University What? A science symposium Topic: Biological Information New Perspectives. Date: May31st - June 2 2011
This was an invitation only event to prevent the media hype and evolutionist disrupters at bay. It was strictly science and not creation science. Twenty peer reviewed papers were presented and are in the process of being published now. All papers in some way shape or form present serious problems and even potential falsifications of the neo-Darwinian theory. The science community will be unaware of these papers until they are fully published in a scientific syposium book as is the usual procedure.
I have been asked not to present substantial information regarding this event until the publication is released. I don't know when, but expect 3-6 months. I have copies of all the abstracts and they are brutal regarding evidence against neo-Darwinian theory. Once released, the science community will for the first time have to deal wilth real contrary evidence. And it will open the doors for future symposiums where the scientific journals don't control the publications and peer review process. You will recognize several of the names of presenters. I will have access to all of these papers in the future, and I will make them available as soon as I can.
Sorry for the vagueness, but you all know the forces that work against such events. It looks like this was a success, and it opens many doors for the truth of an intelligent designer to be a real scientific topic that must be dealt with.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 05 2012,18:49
From the Mountain Daily News, David "I'm-suing-JPL-for-religious-discrimination-but-there's-nothing-religious-about-intelligent-design-nosirree-bob" Coppedge has < a brag that looks like the source for the Creation/Evolution Headlines article >:
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Biological Information Symposium a Success
Despite threat of professional retaliation
by David F. Coppedge
Friday morning June 4, participants were on their way to homes across America and in Europe from a successful conference entitled Biological Information: New Perspectives. They had come to hear leading lights in the Intelligent Design movement deliver 27 scientific presentations on a variety of subtopics under the umbrella theme of information in biology. From all appearances, everyone had a great time of fellowship, encouragement and intellectual stimulation. No protestors or critics detracted from the eventpartly because it was not widely advertised, in order to protect the identity of those wanting to take part without jeopardizing their careers. The event was held at Cornell University beginning Monday night May 30 and concluding Thursday June 2.
The symposium centered around three themes: (1) Information theory and biology, (2) information and genetic theory, and (3) theoretical biology. Speakers from disciplines as diverse as thermodynamics, mathematics, linguistics, computer science, genetics, and of course biology presented their experimental findings and theories. Attempts were made to define information in robust ways, to compare and contrast cybernetic and biological information, and to describe levels of information coding in the cell. Computer models of evolution were critiqued, as were attempts to generate information by non-intelligent causes. Not every speaker was a proponent of intelligent design, but all believed it is an idea worth taking seriously.
Speakers and the audience had been instructed to steer clear of religious issues. The focus was on the science, and the content was as rigorous as that of any science symposium. While many well-known spokespersons for intelligent design led the way, there was a notable presence of young scientists with even more enthusiasm for the new design-based approaches to biology than the seniors. Their energy was palpable in breakout sessions and lunchtime conversations. Because of potential harm to careers of some participants, names of all are being withheld from this review.
One thing is clear from this symposium: design scientists have more fun. It was an upbeat event. There was no lack of argumentation and disagreement, but it was all constructive and respectful, with the energetic give-and-take producing light, not heat. The social events were delightful, too. Cornell is a beautiful campus. There's evidence for intelligent design all over the grounds, especially in the universitys gardens and native plant collections. A river runs through the middle of the campus and pours over several cascades.
Interestingly, there was a notable absence of participants from Cornell or the Ithaca area. It appears very likely that many who might have otherwise have attended were afraid of negative professional consequences arising from being associated in any way with this event of its participants..
Take heart, though. It was like that before Soviet communism fell. The last years of the Iron Curtain were fierce; many individuals suffered persecution, and many lived in a state of fear. The Soviet bloc seemed impregnable. Then, perestroika and glasnost came as reality set in that communism wasnt working. Within just a couple of years, thanks to pressure from Reagan and internal pressure from freedom loving unions, the Berlin wall fell. The world watched in astonishment as the Soviet Union unraveled in a precipitous and momentous collapse, and long-denied freedoms saw the light of a new day. It can happen with Darwinismunless vigilance gives way to complacency, challenge to comfort, love for truth to fear of criticism. This is no time to cower in retreat; its time to charge!
This entry was posted Thursday, June 9, 2011 at 12 p.m. by David F. Coppedge and is filed under the category titled Science in the News section. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Read our Commenting Policy before you post.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 05 2012,23:22
I've already mentioned this on PT but I guess it is worth to put here again:
Mrs Johnson reported on her < Johnson and Johnson blog > that her husband attended the meeting and even included pictures from the Cornell campus:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- After leaving Heather and Andrew, we traveled about 3 1/2 hours north to Ithaca, New York. Howard was fortunate enough to be able to attend a conference on "Biological Information: New Perspectives".
Howard and I were fortunate to share a picnic dinner with this gentleman, Werner Gitt and his daughter, Roma, from Germany. He was one of the speaker's at the meeting Howard went to held on Cornell University's campus. Delightful people.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: DiEb on Mar. 06 2012,00:54
At the site of <a href="www.bobmarks.org/" target="_blank">Robert Marks II</a>, you can find a short description of the conference, as seen by his wife:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Cornell University: Next we drove to Cornell University where Bob was part of a conference called Biological Information New Perspectives. Bob was a coorganizer along with famous ID people like William Dembski (The Design Inference and No Free Lunch), Michael Behe (Darwin's Black Box and The Edge of Evolution), John Sanford (Genetic Entropy & the Mystery of the Genome) and Bruce Gordon (The Nature of Nature). The proceedings of the conference will be published in 2012. Bob thought the conference was a grand success. Bobs Ph.D. advisor, John Walkup, also came. John and his wife Pat are full time with Campus Crusades professor ministry in the Bay Area focusing on Stanford, Berkeley and San Jose State. Two of Bobs graduate students, Winston Ewert and George Montaez, were also there so we got a wonderful three generation picture. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 06 2012,01:05
While he couldn't force Tiggy to remove the quotes from his his own deleted thread < Jorge at the same time cannot shut upe >:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I keep my promises - or at least try my best to do so.
Your remark above, "... let alone one pursuant of creationist claims" is asinine.
You swallow Atheist claims of Evolution, gigayears and other anti-scriptural claims with little to no problems. At this Symposium were presented numerous solid-science papers showing that Materialistic views of information - particularly as these relate to biology - are not even wrong (that would be too kind). How do you respond? "... pursuant to creationist claims". I'm sad to say that people like you are not only ignorant, but you appear destined to remain that way. I have an entire section of my home library containing books from NON-Biblical Creationists, including Atheists. I've spent thousands of dollars collecting those books, magazines, journals, etc. That's because I want to LEARN the other POVs so that I know what I'm talking about. Like I said, your remark was asinine.
As for future updates, you can get them from Panda's Thumb or from Tiggy. You seem to have much more in common with them than you do with me.
Jorge ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 06 2012,01:12
< More from Jorge: >:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Honestly, it's hard to imagine* how you people manage to sleep at night with the things you say.
This applies to you, Tiggy, O-Mudd, Terror, R06, and a host of others here at TWeb. It's mind-boggling!!!
This event was held AT Cornell University - period. Choke on it if you must but that is what happened and that was the way it was reported. What you people suggest is ludicrous, lunacy and falling-drunk stooooopid. "DISCLAIMER : The conference will be held at Cornell University but it's not 'really' at Cornell University. This is because even though the facilities are on the campus grounds, belong to Cornell, and the service staff all work for Cornell University, the Big Wigs at Cornell do not agree with anything against Evolution. Therefore, though this conference is at Cornell University, it's "not really" at Cornell University. Did everybody get that?"
*Come to think of it, it isn't that hard to imagine at all. The more that people spend time promoting falsehoods, the easier it becomes for those people to not lose any sleep by any falsehood. Ergo, you people probably sleep like the proverbial baby after a nice bath and warm milk.
Jorge ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
(emphasis by Jorge)
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 06 2012,01:21
< KBertsche > investigates Cornell's role:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I see both sides of this issue, but I would put as much or more blame on Cornell than on groups that rent Statler Hall from them. Cornell, as a private university, has no obligation to rent their space to anyone. They try to attract rentals as a source of income. And the Cornell name is a selling point for their rentals. Cornell can't have it both ways; if they want to attract rental groups with the Cornell name, they must expect that these same groups will use the Cornell name to publicize their events.
According to the information sheet about renting Statler Hall, "The Hotel School reserves the right to refuse requests for use of space in Statler Hall that it believes is not in keeping with the mission and goals of the school." If Cornell is embarrassed by this situation, they should change their rental policy or make their approval process tighter.
Cornell's event planning information sheet shows concern about using their name or logo on "merchandise" "(i.e. shirts, hats, pens, etc.)" but specifically says, "Note that this policy does not apply to information printed on paper (i.e. posters, program booklets, etc.)."
I don't think the group did anything wrong in scheduling or publicizing their symposium. On the other hand, in attempting to use Cornell's name in the publication of their proceedings, the may well have violated Cornell's policy statement on Use of Cornell's Name, Logos, Trademarks, and Insignias. These sections of the statement are pertinent:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Cornell University
Responsibility for use of Cornells name and marks in the ordinary course of university business rests with the unit head. Questions regarding such use should be directed to the unit head. Examples of such use: 1. Official unit names. For example, Cornell Institute for Public Affairs. 2. Official event names. For example, Cornell Conference on Law, or Cornell Nutrition Conference, when approved by the appropriate dean or unit head and operated as a university event. ... Except as specifically authorized in writing, use of Cornells name and marks in advertising and other promotional vehicles is prohibited when such use is likely to be perceived as an endorsement, even if such an endorsement is not the intention of the person or organization seeking to use Cornells name or marks. ... Except those uses included in the Ordinary Course of University Business segment of this policy, the use of the name Cornell University or Cornell, in non-student organization names implying or tending to imply some official connection with the university, is prohibited except with the written permission of the university and under such restrictions as it may impose. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Jim_Wynne on Mar. 06 2012,08:43
Quote (sparc @ Mar. 06 2012,01:21) | < KBertsche > investigates Cornell's role:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I see both sides of this issue, but I would put as much or more blame on Cornell than on groups that rent Statler Hall from them. Cornell, as a private university, has no obligation to rent their space to anyone. They try to attract rentals as a source of income. And the Cornell name is a selling point for their rentals. Cornell can't have it both ways; if they want to attract rental groups with the Cornell name, they must expect that these same groups will use the Cornell name to publicize their events.
According to the information sheet about renting Statler Hall, "The Hotel School reserves the right to refuse requests for use of space in Statler Hall that it believes is not in keeping with the mission and goals of the school." If Cornell is embarrassed by this situation, they should change their rental policy or make their approval process tighter.
Cornell's event planning information sheet shows concern about using their name or logo on "merchandise" "(i.e. shirts, hats, pens, etc.)" but specifically says, "Note that this policy does not apply to information printed on paper (i.e. posters, program booklets, etc.)."
I don't think the group did anything wrong in scheduling or publicizing their symposium. On the other hand, in attempting to use Cornell's name in the publication of their proceedings, the may well have violated Cornell's policy statement on Use of Cornell's Name, Logos, Trademarks, and Insignias. These sections of the statement are pertinent:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Cornell University
Responsibility for use of Cornells name and marks in the ordinary course of university business rests with the unit head. Questions regarding such use should be directed to the unit head. Examples of such use: 1. Official unit names. For example, Cornell Institute for Public Affairs. 2. Official event names. For example, Cornell Conference on Law, or Cornell Nutrition Conference, when approved by the appropriate dean or unit head and operated as a university event. ... Except as specifically authorized in writing, use of Cornells name and marks in advertising and other promotional vehicles is prohibited when such use is likely to be perceived as an endorsement, even if such an endorsement is not the intention of the person or organization seeking to use Cornells name or marks. ... Except those uses included in the Ordinary Course of University Business segment of this policy, the use of the name Cornell University or Cornell, in non-student organization names implying or tending to imply some official connection with the university, is prohibited except with the written permission of the university and under such restrictions as it may impose. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
This person seems confused. On the one hand, he says "I don't think the group did anything wrong in scheduling or publicizing their symposium," then he quotes Cornell as saying "Except as specifically authorized in writing, use of Cornells name and marks in advertising and other promotional vehicles is prohibited when such use is likely to be perceived as an endorsement, even if such an endorsement is not the intention of the person or organization seeking to use Cornells name or marks."
It's pretty clear that the intent was to create the impression that Cornell was somehow officially complicit.
Posted by: midwifetoad on Mar. 06 2012,09:09
They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.
Posted by: Freddie on Mar. 06 2012,10:27
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
and if it hadn't been for those meddling kids ...
Posted by: Kattarina98 on Mar. 06 2012,11:05
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
And that says a lot about the review process at Springer.
Posted by: eigenstate on Mar. 06 2012,11:43
Just putting this in the thread, in case Tiggy's thread eventually gets nuked -- a Cornell reference in Dembski's CV on the boondoggle:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- No less that head IDiot William Dembski has gone the same route. From his CV:
PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES 2011 A General Theory of Information Cost Incurred by Successful Search, presented 31 May 2011 at Biological Information: New Perspectives (international conference at Cornell University, 31 May 2 June 2011).
link
The whole Intelligent Design Creation movement is based on such intellectual dishonesty.
- T ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Here's the link Tiggy supplied:
< http://www.designinference.com/documen....ski.pdf >
Posted by: OgreMkV on Mar. 06 2012,12:14
Huh... there's irony for you.
I just discovered that David Dunning of Dunning-Krueger fame works at... Cornell.
---------------------QUOTE------------------- The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those peoples ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: khan on Mar. 06 2012,14:56
The event was held at Cornell University
Is that the same as staying at Holiday Inn Express?
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 06 2012,21:17
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I thought it was Springer's automated marketing apparatus lurching into motion that spoiled their plan.
I suppose asking for an additional paragraph in the contract requiring the publisher to keep quiet about the volume until the copies are actually printed would be a bit suspicious.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 06 2012,22:47
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 06 2012,21:17) | Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I thought it was Springer's automated marketing apparatus lurching into motion that spoiled their plan.
I suppose asking for an additional paragraph in the contract requiring the publisher to keep quiet about the volume until the copies are actually printed would be a bit suspicious. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I've learned about the book from < Dembski's CV on February 27 (in the US it was still the 26th). >
---------------------QUOTE------------------- BOOKS in preparation Biological Information: New Perspectives (co-edited with Robert J. Marks II, John Sanford, Michael Behe, and Bruce Gordon). Under contract with Springer Verlag. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
There's more to come:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Substantially revised 2nd edition of No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence (with Robert J. Marks II as new co-author). Under contract with Rowman & Littlefield.
Christian Darwinism: Why Theistic Evolution Fails as Science and Theology (coauthored with Denyse OLeary, mounting a fundamental challenge to theistic evolution). Under contract with Broadman & Holman.
Mind Altering: How Culture is Changing Our Brains (co-authored with Baylor neuroscientist Matthew Stanford). ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Baylor again, his unrequited love. But how deep can one sink to co-author a book with DO'L. After all who if not Dembski must be aware of her logic and her writings. OTOH, IIRC it was Dembski who hired her for UD.
Posted by: Richardthughes on Mar. 06 2012,23:11
WRITING!: WHAT DENYSE DOES? WELL!
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 07 2012,03:12
Quick - I've written a blog post that's going to go up on a Major UK (and international) newspaper's web pages about this and it needs a picture. Can anyone suggest something, e.g. from the AtBC archives, that would be suitable, free to use, and not too offensive? I don't want to get sued.
Posted by: The whole truth on Mar. 07 2012,03:22
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,01:12) | Quick - I've written a blog post that's going to go up on a Major UK (and international) newspaper's web pages about this and it needs a picture. Can anyone suggest something, e.g. from the AtBC archives, that would be suitable, free to use, and not too offensive? I don't want to get sued. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
A picture of what?
Posted by: The whole truth on Mar. 07 2012,03:41
Bob, I'm just asking for an idea of what you're looking for. Maybe I can help.
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 07 2012,04:06
Something to illustrate the BI:NP story. I know there have been a few amusing photoshops done over the years here, and one of those might be suitable.
Other than that I'm fairly flexible. This is a last minute job (the post should go up in a couple of hours), so I'm happy for people to suggest previous work. Or a LOLcat.
Posted by: The whole truth on Mar. 07 2012,05:18
Bob, don't feel obligated to use any of these, but you can if you want.
If you like the picture but want different words, tell me what you want and I'll make it. Better hurry though because I'll be going to sleep soon.
You can also make your own < here >
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 07 2012,05:49
I like the first one. I almost said "no LOLDembskis", but now I'm glad I didn't.
Posted by: The whole truth on Mar. 07 2012,05:55
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,03:49) | I like the first one. I almost said "no LOLDembskis", but now I'm glad I didn't. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Here's a smaller version of it, that looks a little better:
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 07 2012,06:20
If we can get it passed the lawyers, it looks like we'll go for this. Who should get the credit? "The Whole Truth", or do you want your real name used?
You're not David S. Springer are you?
Posted by: The whole truth on Mar. 07 2012,06:36
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,04:20) | If we can get it passed the lawyers, it looks like we'll go for this. Who should get the credit? "The Whole Truth", or do you want your real name used?
You're not David S. Springer are you? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
You don't have to give me any credit, but if you want to just use The whole truth. Nope, I'm not David Springer.
Posted by: The whole truth on Mar. 07 2012,06:40
I just want to add that I'll accept full responsibility when it comes to any legal matters for any pictures or text that I post here or anywhere else.
Posted by: k.e.. on Mar. 07 2012,07:08
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,17:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Yeah they fluffed it
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 07 2012,07:19
OK, sparc, what I saw in the UD thread was you pointing out the Springer page for the book. Thanks for the explanation.
Posted by: Erasmus, FCD on Mar. 07 2012,08:28
Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 07 2012,08:08) | Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,17:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Yeah they fluffed it ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
what a waste, a whole department of fluffers for a couple of permanent priapisms
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 07 2012,12:12
Bob's post on BI:NP is up at the < Guardian >.
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 07 2012,12:40
Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.
I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian.
Posted by: OgreMkV on Mar. 07 2012,12:43
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,12:40) | Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.
I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Still very insightful and useful to the wider audience.
Well done.
Posted by: Reciprocating Bill on Mar. 07 2012,13:21
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,10:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
In this case premature ejubilation.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 07 2012,14:08
Bob O'H must be Dembski's nightmare:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- conducting research at the Biodiversity and Climate Research Centre in Germany ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Biodiversity and Climate Research, as if biodiversity weren't enough
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 07 2012,15:21
I guess I should start working on vaccines too, and complete the set.
Posted by: Richardthughes on Mar. 07 2012,16:13
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,12:40) | Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.
I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
EXPELLED! EVOMAT THOUGHT POLIC... wait, what?
Posted by: DiEb on Mar. 07 2012,16:16
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09) | They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I beg to differ: they have kept exceptionally quite about the whole thing, only the (automatically generated?) announcement by Springer derailed their plan.
Look how their modus operandi has changed over the last years: Marks's and Dembski's paper "Conservation of Information in Search - Measuring the Cost of Success" was available as a preprint on Marks's homepage, it was announced a couple of times at UncommonDescent, and after years of struggle it appeared in some unrelated journal.
This disadvantage is obvious: public criticism. And boy, they didn't like it.
Nowadays, they try to sneak in their articles in a kind of peer-reviewed journal first. Then they will ignore any critique which isn't itself in form of a peer-reviewed paper. And no one bothers to do so, their math is generally debunked some levels below, in blogs, wikis, etc.
What does this mean if you find an error in their publications? They don't bother! And if you try to correct them via email, you get an answer (if any!) like
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I have a policy not to engage in correspondence with anyone publically critical of me or my work. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 07 2012,21:57
The DI held a closed conference in SoCal in 1996 (collection of essays published as "Mere Creation"). They followed that up with a conference in Austin, Texas early in 1997 where they issued a public call for papers and solicited participation of people they believed would hold views counter to their own. The CFP failed to mention "intelligent design". The essays to that conference were posted online, but never collected and formally published.
IIRC, it was in 2000 that the "Polanyi Center" at Baylor hosted the "Nature of Nature" conference that invited in a bunch of big name philosophers. They didn't bother to mention their grinding ax then, either, and still hold a grudge against Barbara Forrest, who wrote a letter to various participants letting them know what they were getting themselves into. A volume finally got published with essays from that conference, but not solely material presented at the conference (again, IIRC).
In 2002, I was denied permission to attend a closed conference at Biola (the "RAPID" conference).
The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam.
Posted by: DiEb on Mar. 08 2012,02:14
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57) | [...]The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I see, I inferred a trend because my window of observation was to small. But in reality they are switching between two strategies which both don't work...
Posted by: carlsonjok on Mar. 08 2012,05:32
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57) | The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
The trend that is evident is the renting of publicly available meeting space at various respected science organizations in order to give their movement a veneer of respectability by basking in the reflected glow of that organization's hard earned reputation.
They did it with their Academic Freedom Day at Sam Noble Museum of Natural History at the University of Oklahoma. They tried to do it with their attempt to show "Darwin's Dilemma" at the California Science Center. And now they did so with Cornell.
Posted by: k.e.. on Mar. 08 2012,05:33
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 08 2012,00:13) | Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,12:40) | Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.
I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
EXPELLED! EVOMAT THOUGHT POLIC... wait, what? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
They're all worried Julian is just the begining.
Posted by: k.e.. on Mar. 08 2012,05:44
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 08 2012,13:32) | Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57) | The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
The trend that is evident is the renting of publicly available meeting space at various respected science organizations in order to give their movement a veneer of respectability by basking in the reflected glow of that organization's hard earned reputation.
They did it with their Academic Freedom Day at Sam Noble Museum of Natural History at the University of Oklahoma. They tried to do it with their attempt to show "Darwin's Dilemma" at the California Science Center. And now they did so with Cornell. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Well .....really now that just leaves "Scientific American" ....right?
In between the sit on lawn mower and Viagra ads.
It's a pity BYTE busted years ago they could have had a field day.
Posted by: Wesley R. Elsberry on Mar. 08 2012,07:29
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 08 2012,05:32) | Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57) | The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
The trend that is evident is the renting of publicly available meeting space at various respected science organizations in order to give their movement a veneer of respectability by basking in the reflected glow of that organization's hard earned reputation.
They did it with their Academic Freedom Day at Sam Noble Museum of Natural History at the University of Oklahoma. They tried to do it with their attempt to show "Darwin's Dilemma" at the California Science Center. And now they did so with Cornell. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I don't think that one can support a trend in dishonesty, either. I did mention that their 1997 and 2001 conferences-with-critics did not bother to disclose to the critics just what they were getting into.
And you missed the Smithsonian rental flap from 2005.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 08 2012,11:57
At least there is a trend to decracy because there was at least a second meeting on which only very little information has been disclosed. What we know is from the videos of Berlinski's daughter Cleire. According to < Jeff Shellit's summary > at least the following people joined the
---------------------QUOTE------------------- by-invitation only conference in Italy entitled "Great Expectations". It's hard to find anything about this conference online because, you see, it was "secret". But it's not hard to figure out the agenda. After all, the people present seem to have been - Paul Nelson [...] - Robert Marks [...] - David Berlinski [...] - Moshe Averick [...] - Stephen Meyer [...] - Richard von Sternberg [...] - Michael Denton [...] - perhaps Jonathan Wells [...] ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Since the meeting took place in Italy I was curious if Rivista di Biologica that < ID-proponents used befor to publish their drivel > might be used to publish conference proceedings. However, from its < former home page > I've learned that
---------------------QUOTE------------------- With volume 2010 the publication of the journal by Tilgher is over. The journal will be published by Publisher Fabrizio Serra (www.libraweb.net). ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Since <a href="www.libraweb.net" target="_blank">libraweb</a> doesn't list the journal and it's already 2011 it appears likely that Rivista silently passed away.
Posted by: Jkrebs on Mar. 08 2012,12:10
And they tried to use the "Kansas Science Standards Hearings" as a way to get equal time with mainstream science in a high profile venue. Real scientists refused to play the game, and so the results (the transcripts were published by the state of Kansas) mainly served to highlight the positions (mostly YEC, and/or deniers of common descent) of the ID advocates who came.
Posted by: midwifetoad on Mar. 08 2012,12:35
There's a trend. It just happens to be flat.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 08 2012,13:06
From < Todd's blog >:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Meanwhile, over at Panda's Thumb, Nick Matzke is in an uproar over the publication of a book called Biological Information: New Perspectives (BI:NP). In his usual blunt style, Matzke is upset because "Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience." For those of you who don't know, Springer is a well-known academic publisher, the kind that puts out books that cost hundreds of dollars that almost no one will ever read. (May I add, if you think he's upset now, wait till he gets a list of the contributing authors. He might go into an apoplectic seizure.) According to Matzke,
---------------------QUOTE------------------- The major publishers have enough problems at the moment ... it seems like the last thing they should be doing is frittering away their credibility even further by uncritically publishing creationist work and giving it a veneer of respectability. The mega-publishers are expensive, are making money off of largely government-funded work provided to them for free, and then the public doesnt even have access to it. The only thing they have going for them is quality control and credibility if they give that away to cranks, there is no reason at all to support them. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I'm not interested in discussing the merit of the work published in BI:NP, but I am struck by the interesting parallel between Matzke's and Redfield's complaints. From the information I have, the content of BI:NP has largely to do with natural selection, population genetics, and evolutionary biology. Yet it's being published in an engineering publication called "Intelligent Systems Reference Library." Other titles in the series cover subjects like how to solve math problems with software, robotics for assisting wheelchair navigation, and artificial neural networks. So it's a computer engineering series, not really something that would normally publish on pop genetics and evolutionary biology. I suppose technically, "biological information" falls within the extended periphery of the "Intelligent Systems Reference Library," but the publication of BI:NP leaves me a bit unsettled.
On the one hand, I understand that the authors of this volume probably believe that they cannot get their work published in conventional biology journals, because of their controversial, anti-evolution conclusions. I completely sympathize. I would love to be able to have some of my creationist ideas intelligently read and critiqued by knowledgeable individuals, rather than dismissively scoffed at by "howler monkeys" (you gotta be a real oldtimer to remember that reference). On the other hand, I'm a firm believer in the value of peer review and scientific publication. If a work is rejected, there's probably a reason for the rejection that we should take seriously. Scientific publication isn't just some political game, where friends get published and enemies get punished. It's not an inalienable right either. If we don't respect the process of peer review and publication, then what's the difference between a scientific publication and a propaganda piece? The price tag?
So I'm feeling unsettled, and I'm prepared for all sorts of rants to be directed my way. My email's listed below. Have at it. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 08 2012,22:43
Does anybody know Jonathan D.H. Smith from Iowa State University? According to his web pages (< link >) he contributed to BI:NP
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Hierarchical information theory and the modeling of biological systems, pp. 419-512 in "Biological Information: New Perspectives" (eds. R.J. Marks II et al.), Springer Intelligent Systems Reference Library, Berlin, 2012.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
He even provides < a link to a copy of the article >.
Posted by: The whole truth on Mar. 08 2012,23:31
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,10:40) | Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.
I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Bob, thank you for writing that article and helping to get the word out about the shenanigans of the IDiots. The more people learn of their sneaky games, the better.
Posted by: Dr.GH on Mar. 09 2012,11:53
Quote (sparc @ Mar. 08 2012,20:43) | Does anybody know Jonathan D.H. Smith from Iowa State University? According to his web pages (< link >) he contributed to BI:NP
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Hierarchical information theory and the modeling of biological systems, pp. 419-512 in "Biological Information: New Perspectives" (eds. R.J. Marks II et al.), Springer Intelligent Systems Reference Library, Berlin, 2012.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
He even provides < a link to a copy of the article >. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I just scanned it, and it looked OK.
Posted by: Tracy P. Hamilton on Mar. 09 2012,12:10
Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 09 2012,11:53) | Quote (sparc @ Mar. 08 2012,20:43) | Does anybody know Jonathan D.H. Smith from Iowa State University? According to his web pages (< link >) he contributed to BI:NP
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Hierarchical information theory and the modeling of biological systems, pp. 419-512 in "Biological Information: New Perspectives" (eds. R.J. Marks II et al.), Springer Intelligent Systems Reference Library, Berlin, 2012.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
He even provides < a link to a copy of the article >. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I just scanned it, and it looked OK. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Dr. GH, without your comment I would not have looked, assuming it was the usual IDiocy.
I wonder what he thought of the YEC papers at the "conference".
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 10 2012,00:00
Another BI:NP talk was from J Scott Turner, Professor at the State University of New York, Syracuse, College of Environmental Sciences and Forestry, Department of Environmental and Forest Biology:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- A Multiplicity of Memory. Toward a Coherent Theory of Adaptation. Biological InformationNew Perspectives. Cornell University. June 2011 ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
According to his < CV > it was an invited presentation.
For a start < here's > what Jeffrey Shallit had to say about Turner back in 2007.
(cross posted at PT)
ETA: based on another source PT already listed him as a contributor to BI:NP
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 10 2012,00:54
Can it be just coincidence that < Springer's newest German title > is:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Lgner - Die Wahrheit ber das Lgen (Liars - The truth about lying) ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Dr.GH on Mar. 10 2012,05:02
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Mar. 09 2012,10:10) | I just scanned it, and it looked OK.[/quote] Dr. GH, without your comment I would not have looked, assuming it was the usual IDiocy.
I wonder what he thought of the YEC papers at the "conference". ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I think that there could have been a handful of actually OK papers. These could have been the bulk of the "review" material.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 13 2012,23:49
Here's the story in < French >.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 15 2012,13:21
< Ian Iubys take on the issue > (posted at PT before)
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 15 2012,13:37
The link resulting from a google search for < "biological information: new perspectives" site:amazon.de > results in an empty page ON amazon's German pages. Before it looked like < this >. Searching directly on < Amazon.de > doesn't give any hit for the book either. However, the book is still listed at < Amazon.com >.
(cross posted at PT)
Posted by: Kattarina98 on Mar. 16 2012,03:38
Quote (sparc @ Mar. 15 2012,13:37) | However, the book is still listed at < Amazon.com >.
(cross posted at PT) ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Available for Pre-order. This item will be released on March 31, 2012 ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Can this be true? Springer couldn't be planning to make some bucks selling the book to the US creationists while bashfully hiding the mess from their German customers?
Posted by: Bob O'H on Mar. 16 2012,07:41
It's more likely that Amazon's (or Springers') system has got screwed up because the book has been delayed.
Posted by: fnxtr on Mar. 17 2012,01:14
Quote (sparc @ Mar. 09 2012,22:54) | Can it be just coincidence that < Springer's newest German title > is:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Lgner - Die Wahrheit ber das Lgen (Liars - The truth about lying) ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Wouldn't be a translation of Al Franken's book, would it?
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 18 2012,01:40
Mariano Grinbank describing himself as
---------------------QUOTE------------------- an Argentinean-American Jewish Christian ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
who
---------------------QUOTE------------------- attended private Jewish school and had Bar Mitzvah in Israel ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE------------------- is involved in Judeo-Christian apologetics as a researcher, essayist and lecturer ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
and is a self-proclaimed
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Worldview and Science Examiner ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
examines the "Biological Information: New Perspectives" story at < examiner.com >- From his self-description and this picture
it was already obvious that he would blow ID's horn - Nothing new just the usual ID spin.
I don't understand his judo-christian apologetics thing, though. Is he developing his own new bizarre private religion? His disturbing webpage is < http://www.truefreethinker.com/....ker....ker.com > where we learn that he lectured for the < New Mexico devision of the Intelligent Designe network > and that before he turned hard core religious he was
---------------------QUOTE------------------- was also involved in the New Age Movement and was a practitioner of Reiki, Tai Chi Chuan, Chi Kung and the I'Ching. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
.
Posted by: Erasmus, FCD on Mar. 18 2012,08:47
that is motherfucking hilarious
i bet we know this genius by some other name
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 27 2012,11:04
just to push this thread further up again: We are approaching the scheduled publication date for "BI:NP" (March 31, 2012) What do you think will happen?
Posted by: Kattarina98 on Mar. 27 2012,11:46
Quote (sparc @ Mar. 27 2012,11:04) | What do you think will happen? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Henry J on Mar. 27 2012,12:25
---------------------QUOTE------------------- What do you think will happen? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I don't have that information!
Posted by: sparc on April 01 2012,00:25
April 1st just started in the US and at Amazon the book is still in < pre-order status >. < Another site > lists it as just published. However, the link there will redirect you to the above mentioned Amazon pages.
Posted by: snorkild on April 02 2012,07:32
I can't find the book on Springer's homepage. Do I lack searching skills?
Posted by: sparc on April 02 2012,22:53
While the book is still not available Tom English raises an eyebrow at < Springer series editor Janusz Kacprzyk >.
Posted by: Bob O'H on April 03 2012,02:37
Quote (snorkild @ April 02 2012,07:32) | I can't find the book on Springer's homepage. Do I lack searching skills? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Not really, they took it down once a few people pointed out to them the editors were IDists/creationists
Posted by: sparc on April 09 2012,00:59
More from the Biological Information: New Perspectives "conference" from < Bob Marks' wife's Christmas 2011 greetings: >
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Cornell University: Next we drove to Cornell University where Bob was part of a conference called Biological Information New Perspectives. Bob was a coorganizer along with famous ID people like William Dembski (The Design Inference and No Free Lunch), Michael Behe (Darwins Black Box and The Edge of Evolution), John Sanford (Genetic Entropy & the Mystery of the Genome) and Bruce Gordon (The Nature of Nature). The proceedings of the conference will be published in 2012. Bob thought the conference was a grand success. Bobs Ph.D. advisor, John Walkup, also came. John and his wife Pat are full time with Campus Crusades professor ministry in the Bay Area focusing on Stanford, Berkeley and San Jose State. Two of Bobs graduate students, Winston Ewert and George Montaez, were also there so we got a wonderful three generation picture. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
On page 3 of the pdf you will find that picture of Marks, Walkup, Ewert and Montaez at the conference in front of some poster. She also mentions the other not as secret ID conference (Berlinski's daughter reported on it) held in Italy 2011
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Winston Ewert went to Italy with Bob. (I wish I could have gone, but I wanted to see Tristan more that Italy.) In Italy, Bob met Greg Chaitin who is a founder of algorithmic information theory and Chaitins number. Bob and Winston were both very excited to meet him. David Berlinski (The Devils Delusion) and Steve Myer (Signature in the Cell) were also there. After the conference, Bob was interviewed by Berlinskis daughter for the Ricochet blog. The interview is on YouTube. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Doc Bill on April 09 2012,07:54
Wow, almost makes them seem human. Almost.
And that's what they want you to think.
Posted by: sparc on April 10 2012,22:58
During < another discussion > of the Biological Information: New Perspectives "conference" < John Colliers reported on the 2007 Wistar Retrospective Symposium >:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- A few years ago I was sucked into a conference run by the Discovery Institute. Some the ID people were sincere and perhaps naive. One had done their PhD at Cambridge, and another at Northwestern, under David Hull, my own mentor. I was a bit annoyed at finding I had been duped, but was pleased to renew friendships with Dan Brooks, Bob Ulanowicz, Bruce Weber and some others, as well as meeting Gunther Wagner and Steve Chaitin, and hearing Stuart Kauffman's confusion once again about spontaneous self-organization (Prigogine style self organizing systems) and movement to a minimal energy point.
Michael Behe was there, and we talked. He is a nice guy, unlike the cads at the Discovery Institute. I had refereed a paper of his responding to criticism in Philosophy of Science. Since the criticism was both wrong and poorly argued, I thought he must have his say (as did the other reviewer, a prominent philosopher of biology whose name I am pledged not to reveal). A warning to those attacking ID: these people are much brighter than your garden variety creationists, and do be careful that you know what you are talking about, or else you guarantee them a refereed publication. In this case the original paper should never have been published.
Behe conveniently missed my talk in which I mentioned recent work showed that rotary "motors" in bacteria resulted from just two mutations, contrary to Behe's argument that they are too complicated for evolution to produce. I also showed how Rosen's non-reducibility argument applied to the resulting network, which Chaiting remarked was the clearest expression of the idea he had seen. So the meeting was worthwhile. But I still resent being duped. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
cross posted at < Panda's Thumb >
Posted by: Bob O'H on April 28 2012,04:47
I guess I'm not the only one to sign up for a review cop of BI:NP, so a few of us have probably got an email saying that our online review copy is reserved for us:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Some time ago you reserved an electronic book review copy of "Biological Information: New Perspectives", 978-3-642-28453-3 for you. We are sorry to inform you that this book is not yet available online, but is being reserved for you. You will be informed by email as soon as online access is available. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Clearly they haven't yet decided to ditch the book: my guess is that no decision has been made yet and this is just administrative.
Posted by: sparc on April 28 2012,23:59
I wonder if Springer doesn't have access to Google. It seems quite likely that most of the volume's content has been published before. Thus, critical in depth reviews that are likely to cover most of each of its chapters are already available on the web. E.g., since the announcement of BI:NP < Tom English > pointed out the fallacy at the core of Dembski's and Marks' active information and < Bob Lloyd > shredded Sewell's second law musings. OTOH, Springer is currently experiencing what happens if they don't fulfill the demands of the DI and they may be afraid of additional censorship allegations however unsubstantiated they may be.
Posted by: Bob O'H on April 29 2012,04:08
I think that would be the job of reviewers, not Springer per se. But I'm sure they were careful about who they asked to review the book this time.
Posted by: sparc on Aug. 28 2012,01:32
Today (here in Germany we have August 28 already) it is 150 days that BI:NP's scheduled publishing date passed.
Posted by: sparc on Nov. 15 2012,22:59
Limiting Google searches for Biological Information: New Perspectives to one week usually leaves us with links to a single web site, TrueFreethinker, which is one of the most bizarre pages I have encountered. This week self-described Agentinean-American Messianic Jew Mariano Grinbank who was mentioned earlier in this thread posted about the devil and rock music < here > and < here >. < Another highlight >.
Posted by: Kattarina98 on Nov. 23 2012,04:10
Granville Sewell takes scientific discussion to new heights: He has published a < YouTube video > in which he tells the sad story of "How the Scientific Consensus is Maintained".
Some minutes into the video, he tells his viewers about
---------------------QUOTE------------------- a 2011Cornell University symposium entitled Biological Information - New Perspectives. . ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
And later, he repeats this misinformation. By the way, although ID friends were present,
---------------------QUOTE------------------- ... I don't recall that Intelligent Design was ever mentioned in the talks ... ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Then he whines about the Elsevier's Applied Mathematics Letters affair (mean David vun Kannon! waaah!) and the Springer affair.
Next: Nasty Bob Lloyd attacked him in the Mathematical Intelligencer in March 2012, and Sewell's letter to the editor was rejected - unfair!
Then, he boringly reads out that letter as published in EN&V.
Last complaint: American Journal of Physics rejected his paper, too; it's a conspiracy, surely?
That's the content of 15 minutes of whining, comments are disabled, of course, as they are on UD where he announced the video.
Posted by: Glen Davidson on Nov. 23 2012,10:10
Or in other words, the scientific consensus is maintained by keeping bad creationist arguments and self-plagiarism out of journals tasked with doing exactly that.
Oh yeah, the jerk whining about censorship isn't even allowing UD's selective commenting to occur in response to his post. Cry another river about not having any right to reply, hypocrite.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: sparc on Nov. 23 2012,12:07
Quote (Kattarina98 @ Nov. 23 2012,04:10) | Granville Sewell takes scientific discussion to new heights: He has published a < YouTube video > in which he tells the sad story of "How the Scientific Consensus is Maintained".
Some minutes into the video, he tells his viewers about
---------------------QUOTE------------------- a 2011Cornell University symposium entitled Biological Information - New Perspectives. . ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
And later, he repeats this misinformation. By the way, although ID friends were present,
---------------------QUOTE------------------- ... I don't recall that Intelligent Design was ever mentioned in the talks ... ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Then he whines about the Elsevier's Applied Mathematics Letters affair (mean David vun Kannon! waaah!) and the Springer affair.
Next: Nasty Bob Lloyd attacked him in the Mathematical Intelligencer in March 2012, and Sewell's letter to the editor was rejected - unfair!
Then, he boringly reads out that letter as published in EN&V.
Last complaint: American Journal of Physics rejected his paper, too; it's a conspiracy, surely?
That's the content of 15 minutes of whining, comments are disabled, of course, as they are on UD where he announced the video. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Thanks for the link and the summary. I don't have the nerve to listen to the whole thing.
Posted by: Kattarina98 on Nov. 23 2012,12:40
Over at The Skeptical Zone, there is a new post about the video.
Posted by: sparc on Dec. 05 2012,22:20
According to < buecher.de > Springer says that "Biological Information: New Perspectives" will not be published:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Erscheint nicht laut Verlag ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
< Velbrck >, a second online book dealer says the same
So does < Lehmanns > the biggest German book dealer for science books although in other words:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Titel wird leider nicht erscheinen ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Looks like Demski has to update his < CV/resume > which still says:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- BOOKS
in preparation Biological Information: New Perspectives (co-edited with Robert J. Marks II, John Sanford, Michael Behe, and Bruce Gordon). Under contract with Springer Verlag. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
edited to correct link to the third image
Posted by: sparc on Dec. 05 2012,23:11
Springer seems to have dismissed BI:NP for quite some time already: According to < Lehmanns > BI:NP was planned as #38 of the Springer series Intelligent Systems Reference Library which is now occupied by the < Handbook of Optimization >. According to < Amazon > the later has already been published on August 19, 2012.
Posted by: Glen Davidson on Dec. 05 2012,23:16
And the Fourth Reich wins!
At least if you believe the high thin whine of outraged incompetence.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: sparc on Dec. 06 2012,21:56
The news has spread at < theoplogy web and triggered some predictable reaction >. After the book had been described as
---------------------QUOTE------------------- fraudulently misrepresenting itself as work from Cornell University ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge got mad:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- It was NOT "fraudulently misrepresented", you lying piece of recycled trash. Every title had been submitted to Springer months BEFORE the Symposium. This included authors, abstracts ... etc. Springer approved all materials submitted to them prior to the event and agreed to publish.
What happened was something entirely different than your lying reporting. It is essentially another example of intellectual censorship based on religious ideology, not on science... another example of EXPELLED.
I certainly am not expecting for you - sick carcass that you are - to comprehend nor accept any of this.
Jorge ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: sparc on Dec. 07 2012,01:49
Granville Sewell's recent < whining > about the Biological Information: New Perspectives desaster can be read as if he already knew then that Springer abonded the publication of the proceedings:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Since AML still refused to publish my accepted article I went ahead and presented it at the May 2011 Cornell symposium as originally planned and submitted a revised version for inclusion in the proceedings. Nearly a year later in March 2012 the proceedings had been peer reviewed and type set and the book was ready to be printed in accordance with the signed publication agreement with Springer were like. But once again a[???] Darwinist discovered that Springer was about to publish the proceedings and pressured the publisher into delaying and re-considering publication. According to this < article > these critics admitted not knowing anything about the contents of the proceedings they just noticed that the editors were known intelligent design supporters and based on this alone brought pressure on Springer to withdraw the book. In fact, although the editors and most of the participants were ID-friendly I dont recall that intelligent design was ever mentioned in the talks though most were critical of Darwinisms ability to explain the development of biological information. Although this time the protests were not directed specifically against my writing, the protesters didnt know what was in the book, remember, for a second time my article had been peer reviewed and accepted and close to publication when people who had no reason to be involved in the editorial process succeeded, at least temporarily, in suppressing it. As of today seven later the < Amazon.com page > for these proceedings still says sign up to be notified when this item becomes available. Here is the Amazon.com description of the conference:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- In the spring of 2011, a diverse group of scientists gathered at Cornell University to discuss their research into the nature and origin of biological information. []Several clear themes emerged from these research papers: 1) Information is indispensable to our understanding of what life is. 2) Biological information is more than the material structures that embody it. 3) Conventional chemical and evolutionary mechanisms seem insufficient to fully explain the labyrinth of information that is life. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
There you are, you know more about the proceedings than those who demanded it the publisher withdraw the book in March. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
(all emphasis mine, links added)
Posted by: damitall on Dec. 07 2012,03:54
Quote (sparc @ Dec. 06 2012,21:56) | The news has spread at < theoplogy web and triggered some predictable reaction >. After the book had been described as
---------------------QUOTE------------------- fraudulently misrepresenting itself as work from Cornell University ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge got mad:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- It was NOT "fraudulently misrepresented", you lying piece of recycled trash. Every title had been submitted to Springer months BEFORE the Symposium. This included authors, abstracts ... etc. Springer approved all materials submitted to them prior to the event and agreed to publish.
What happened was something entirely different than your lying reporting. It is essentially another example of intellectual censorship based on religious ideology, not on science... another example of EXPELLED.
I certainly am not expecting for you - sick carcass that you are - to comprehend nor accept any of this.
Jorge ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I haven't looked at TWeb for some time, but IIRC, Jorge is permanently irate.
It's his ground state.
Posted by: Erasmus, FCD on Dec. 07 2012,09:06
Quote (damitall @ Dec. 07 2012,04:54) | Quote (sparc @ Dec. 06 2012,21:56) | The news has spread at < theoplogy web and triggered some predictable reaction >. After the book had been described as
---------------------QUOTE------------------- fraudulently misrepresenting itself as work from Cornell University ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge got mad:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- It was NOT "fraudulently misrepresented", you lying piece of recycled trash. Every title had been submitted to Springer months BEFORE the Symposium. This included authors, abstracts ... etc. Springer approved all materials submitted to them prior to the event and agreed to publish.
What happened was something entirely different than your lying reporting. It is essentially another example of intellectual censorship based on religious ideology, not on science... another example of EXPELLED.
I certainly am not expecting for you - sick carcass that you are - to comprehend nor accept any of this.
Jorge ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I haven't looked at TWeb for some time, but IIRC, Jorge is permanently irate.
It's his ground state. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
those are the best kinds of tard. permarage
Posted by: midwifetoad on Dec. 07 2012,10:27
Jorge is an anagram for r JoeG. Any similarities in style?
Posted by: Jim_Wynne on Dec. 07 2012,10:38
Dembski still hasn't produced the book he was supposed to write to < fulfill his Templeton grant obligation > from 12 years ago.
ETA: He presently lists Being as Communion as "long overdue" on his CV.
Posted by: Henry J on Dec. 07 2012,22:38
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I haven't looked at TWeb for some time, but IIRC, Jorge is permanently irate.
It's his ground state. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
So his parents grounded him?
Henry
Posted by: sparc on Dec. 09 2012,02:56
While Amazon.com and many other US sites still list BI:NP as available or in print UK < pickabook > states:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- We believe that this item is permanently unavailable, and so we cannot source it. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
South-Africa's < Red Pepper Books > says it more directly:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Availability: Cancelled ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: The whole truth on Dec. 09 2012,03:24
sparc, thanks for the updates. It appears that Springer isn't going to publish BI:NP. The IDiots are probably looking for another publisher, and I can't help but wonder if they're considering or planning a lawsuit against Springer. Even if they have no chance of winning such a suit they might push it anyway just to get as much 'Expelled' publicity as they can milk from it.
Posted by: sparc on Dec. 09 2012,11:37
Wesley Brewer has removed the four articles planned to be part of the BI:NP proceedings from his < webpage >. According to < Google cache > they were still present on November 19, 2012:
Posted by: fusilier on Dec. 09 2012,13:25
Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 07 2012,11:27) | Jorge is an anagram for r JoeG. Any similarities in style? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Don't think so.
Jorge once said his eyes were opened by Kent Hovind videos - and he's a fundigelical Christian.
Posted by: fnxtr on Dec. 09 2012,15:04
Quote (The whole truth @ Dec. 09 2012,01:24) | Even if they have no chance of winning such a suit they might push it anyway just to get as much 'Expelled' publicity as they can milk from it. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
If only the movie had been called "Expressed" there'd have been a pun in there somewhere.
Hardly worth it.
Posted by: Doc Bill on Dec. 09 2012,15:47
I don't see the point in writing a book like this other than to say "we have a book coming out soon" and then forget about it.
Who's going to buy a $100-plus book of bullshit essays?
I can't imagine that Marks or Behe want a POS like this on their resume; they get enough from their colleagues as it is. It's not going to further Dr. Dr.'s "career" as an adjunct professor at a bible diploma mill.
So, no money, no bragging rights, no fame - what's the point?
Posted by: sparc on Feb. 10 2013,15:56
< Darwin's Dead Idea and the Man Who Helped Kill It > contains a modified version of John Barnham's interview with William Dembski first published on his < TheBestSchools.org blog >. At the time of the interview (it was published on January 12, 2012) Dembski was expecting that the proceedings of the secret meeting of ID-creationists at Cornell University would be published by Springer. Luckily, Biological Information: New Perspectives didn't appear and they thus removed Dembskis following statement from the current version of the interview:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- For instance, I have a very substantial anthology coming out with a major academic publisher, but Im not at liberty to say where until it actually comes out, because Darwinists have the disturbing habit of trying to get publication agreements for ID-friendly literature revoked. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I hope he knows that we found the first evidence for Biological Information: New Perspectives in his CV on his own designinference.com pages.
(edited to correct tags)
Posted by: stevestory on Feb. 10 2013,17:06
oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Book Description Publication Date: January 4, 2013 "Darwins Dead Idea and the Man Who Helped Kill It" makes for highly engaging reading. Witness the fascinating journey of a smart, inquisitive adolescent rejecting his schools ask-no-questions religious indoctrination into a mathematician, philosopher, and scientist of the highest order, one who today is powerfully and persuasively challenging academias reigning answer to the questions that haunt us all: Where did we come from? Why is there something rather than nothing? A leading spokesman for the scientific theory that is shattering materialist assumptions about reality and the origin of life, Dr. William Dembski responds to probing questions from James Barham, general editor of TheBestSchools.org. That interview forms the core of DDI. Dembskis forthright and humbly restrained responses reveal the courage, perseverance, and original thinking that have made him a lightning rod in the scientific community. The heated controversy surrounding intelligent design theory dramatically confirms Machiavellis observation that there is nothing more difficult to carry out nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. DDI introduces readers to one of the stellar lights of the new order of things now emerging on the horizon.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Wonderfully 'humbly restrained' of them, ain't it?
Posted by: Glen Davidson on Feb. 10 2013,17:17
---------------------QUOTE------------------- made him a lightning rod in the scientific community ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
One kind of rod, anyhow.
And really, like he's anything in the scientific community. Not even much of anything in the kook community, the only one that cares about him at all, aside from those of us who apparently enjoy laughing at old jokes.
Somehow I keep expecting slightly more honesty from these buffoons, mainly because the lies haven't done much for them. But lying seems to be all that they know to do.
Glen Davidson
Posted by: Doc Bill on Feb. 10 2013,18:16
I guess we're not at rock bottom! And here I thought being an adjunct "professor" at a North Carolina correspondence Bible college was rock bottom!
Just think, when collecting unemployment is a step above what you're currently doing is not rock bottom, that's a rocky bottom.
So, Dembski is reduced to charging $5 for a Kindle version of a year-old blog posting freely available, still, on the Internet. Srsly, Dembski, this is "leading edge" stuff? And edited by the folks who brought you Of Pandas and People, how nice!
For five bucks, Dembski, you should at least create an ID app. Call it:
Angry Tards
Posted by: Ptaylor on Feb. 10 2013,19:13
Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,10:06) | oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
And guess who has turned up in the reviewers' comments there? Hint: "ID is NOT anti-evolution."
Posted by: Erasmus, FCD on Feb. 10 2013,23:34
Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 10 2013,18:06) | oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Book Description Publication Date: January 4, 2013 "Darwins Dead Idea and the Man Who Helped Kill It" makes for highly engaging reading. Witness the fascinating journey of a smart, inquisitive adolescent rejecting his schools ask-no-questions religious indoctrination into a mathematician, philosopher, and scientist of the highest order, one who today is powerfully and persuasively challenging academias reigning answer to the questions that haunt us all: Where did we come from? Why is there something rather than nothing? A leading spokesman for the scientific theory that is shattering materialist assumptions about reality and the origin of life, Dr. William Dembski responds to probing questions from James Barham, general editor of TheBestSchools.org. That interview forms the core of DDI. Dembskis forthright and humbly restrained responses reveal the courage, perseverance, and original thinking that have made him a lightning rod in the scientific community. The heated controversy surrounding intelligent design theory dramatically confirms Machiavellis observation that there is nothing more difficult to carry out nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. DDI introduces readers to one of the stellar lights of the new order of things now emerging on the horizon.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Wonderfully 'humbly restrained' of them, ain't it? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
50 bucks says he wrote it
ETA It's monopoly money, bitches, I don't actually GAF :D
Posted by: JohnW on Feb. 11 2013,00:36
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 10 2013,21:34) | 50 bucks says he wrote it ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Witness the fascinating journey of a smart, inquisitive adolescent rejecting his schools ask-no-questions religious indoctrination into a mathematician, philosopher, and scientist of the highest order, one who today is powerfully and persuasively challenging academias reigning answer to the questions that haunt us all: Where did we come from? Why is there something rather than nothing? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
That's an O'Leary sentence, or I'm a duck.
Posted by: Doc Bill on Feb. 11 2013,08:32
Yeah, that sounds Dense enough; highly compacted bullshit.
Besides, the original interview was posted on the blog where Dense hangs out now.
Just imagine a threesome between Dumbski, Dense and Buell.
(I know, Jon or Linda - doesn't matter.)
Posted by: DiEb on Feb. 11 2013,09:20
Quote (Doc Bill @ Feb. 11 2013,14:32) | Yeah, that sounds Dense enough; highly compacted bullshit.
Besides, the original interview was posted on the blog where Dense hangs out now.
Just imagine a threesome between Dumbski, Dense and Buell.
(I know, Jon or Linda - doesn't matter.) ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
And Denyse < uses the handle "news" at UncommonDescent... >
5.08$ for 74 pages Dembski? *Shudder*
Posted by: Woodbine on Feb. 11 2013,12:55
---------------------QUOTE------------------- .....and a scientist of the highest order, ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Fuck me.
Posted by: Glen Davidson on Feb. 11 2013,13:25
Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 11 2013,12:55) |
---------------------QUOTE------------------- .....and a scientist of the highest order, ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Fuck me. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Well, of course.
Theology being the queen of sciences, Dembski's apologetics make him into a scientist of the highest order.
In ID terms...
Glen Davidson
Posted by: Robin on Feb. 11 2013,13:56
Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 10 2013,19:13) | Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,10:06) | oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
And guess who has turned up in the reviewers' comments there? Hint: "ID is NOT anti-evolution." ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Poor Joe:
Initial post: Feb 10, 2013 6:59:29 AM PST Joseph Gallien says: [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Hide post again. (Show all unhelpful posts)]
Permalink | Report abuse | Ignore this customer 0 of 10 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No
Posted by: OgreMkV on Feb. 11 2013,14:08
Quote (Robin @ Feb. 11 2013,13:56) | Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 10 2013,19:13) | Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,10:06) | oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
And guess who has turned up in the reviewers' comments there? Hint: "ID is NOT anti-evolution." ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Poor Joe:
Initial post: Feb 10, 2013 6:59:29 AM PST Joseph Gallien says: [Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Hide post again. (Show all unhelpful posts)]
Permalink | Report abuse | Ignore this customer 0 of 10 people think this post adds to the discussion. Do you? Yes No ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I voted it down. I chose not to engage with Joe anymore.
Posted by: Doc Bill on Feb. 11 2013,17:37
I signed into my Amazon account and voted Joe G's comments down, too.
They're disappearing so fast you'd think DaveScot was running Amazon!
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 09 2013,00:42
Searching for BI:NP doesn't result in much news but I found a nice (if true) story about J. Sandford in an still < ongoing discussion >:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- There is also a beautiful story about John Sanford, I have a friend who was a post doc at Cornell and on one of the few occasions Sanford went there, he was met with a queue of Bioscience students, who all wanted him to sign a book. I guess he thought, one of his books. No, they all had books such Barney the Dinosaur and the Junior Dinosaur picture book. After about 2 minutes he went bright red (as I imagine longloadr does!) and ran from the campus in tears, so upset he could not drive his own car, and had to be driven home by campus security. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
ETA: Today's the first anniversary of this thread.
Posted by: sparc on Mar. 30 2013,16:38
One day before the first aniversary of the publication of BI:NP that never happend Granville Sewell anounced at < UD > that he has published yet another updated version of the bitter video in which he complains about the fact that he cannot publish his views on the SLoT again. In the meantime he tried to get his paper published it in the American Journal of Physics and received the answer he diserved (one wonders what he actually expected) although IMHO the reply was still much to kind:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Dear Dr. Sewell, We have reviewed your submission Poker Entrpoy and the Theory of Compensation (our manuscript 24445) and determined that it is not appropriate for publication in the American Journal of Physics. Please refer to the Information for Contributors and the Statement of Editorial Policy at the AJP homepage (http://www.kzoo.edu/ajp/).
We do not see any educational value in your manuscript. Because it is well established in the physics community that there is no conflict between the second law of thermodynamics and evolution, we can consider manuscripts which help students understand why. However, papers that promote views that are contrary to accepted understandings in physics should be sent to research journals not to AJP.
Therefore, I regret to inform you that we will not pursue the publication of your manuscript.
Ian Tobochnik ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
(taken from G. Sewels video < How the Scientific Consensus is Maintained >)
ETA: I posted this here because in the original video Sewell complained that Springer didn't publish BI:NP. I will leave a copy at the uncommonlydense thread-
Posted by: sparc on June 05 2013,23:16
They've finally made it: After Springer denied "Biological Information: New Perspectives" ID-creationists somehow must have convinced < World Scientific Publishing Company > to publish it. O'Leary linked to its < Amzon page > at < UD > and < Best Schools >.
Posted by: sparc on June 06 2013,01:08
Posted by: sparc on June 06 2013,01:12
Maybe you want to re-tweet < this >:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- @worldscientific are you really going to publish unscientific creationist Biological Information: New Perspectives? < http://tinyurl.com/car2h3v....car2h3v > ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: Bob O'H on June 06 2013,02:16
I tweeted this to them:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- @worldscientific Are you aware that you are about to publish creationist "science"? < http://www.worldscientific.com/worldsc........818 > see < http://www.guardian.co.uk/science....ce....2 > ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I'm a bit torn on this: I don't like the idea of censorship, so I'd rather this was published somewhere, but I think it's wrong for a reputable press to publish this as science, unless it's been through a thorough peer review. I hadn't heard of the press before, so I don't know how reputable they want to be. I guess we'll find out.
BTW, I've downloaded the book (from < the publishers >, it's free folks) and can send it to anyone who wants 20Mb of nighttime reading. Personally, I'm sticking to The Complete Sherlock Holmes for the moment.
ETA: I also tweeted Cornell, to ask if they were aware the book was being advertised as from a symposium at Cornell.
Posted by: Quack on June 06 2013,03:24
Must each pdf be downloaded separately; the select all checkbox didn't do much?
Posted by: sparc on June 06 2013,05:38
I wonder if Dr. Dr. Dembski is aware of what Denyse is doing. As of today he still lists "Biological Information: New Perspectives" as
---------------------QUOTE------------------- < Under contract with Springer Verlag. > ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
ETA forgotten second PhD
Posted by: Cubist on June 06 2013,06:23
Have downloaded all 20-something PDFs. According to the colophon, the publisher, World Scientific, is a Singapore-based publisher with offices in the US (Hackensack, NJ) and UK (London, England). It would be interesting to know whether anyone at World Scientific is aware of the track records of the various editors/contributors.
The book is credited to five editors… • Robert J. Marks II (Baylor U.) • Michael J. Behe (Lehigh U.) • William A. Dembski (Discovery Institute) • Bruce L. Gordon (Houston Baptist U.) • John C. Sanford (Cornell U.) …with assistance from two other persons: • Franzine D. Smith, Technical Editor • Chase W. Nelson, Editorial Assistant
Here's the table of contents, sans page numbers:
Section One: Information Theory & Biology • Introductory Comments / Robert J. Marks II • Biological Information — What is It / Werner Gitt, Robert Compton, and Jorge Fernandez • A General Theory of Information Cost Incurred by Successful Search / William A. Dembski, Winston Ewert, and Robert J. Marks II • Pragmatic Information / John W. Oller, Jr. • Limits of Chaos and Progress in Evolutionary Dynamics / William F. Basener • Tierra: The Character of Adaptation / Winston Ewert, William A. Dembski, and Robert J. Marks II • Multiple Overlapping Genetic Codes Profoundly Reduce the Probability of Beneficial Mutation / George Montañez, Robert J. Marks II, Jorge Fernandez and John C. Sanford • Entropy, Evolution and Open Systems / Granville Sewell • Information and Thermodynamics in Living Systems / Andy C. McIntosh Section Two: Biological Information and Genetic Theory • Introductory Comments / John C. Sanford • Not Junk After All: Non-Protein-Coding DNA Carries Extensive Biological Information / Jonathan Wells • Can Purifying Natural Selection Preserve Biological Information? / Paul Gibson, John R. Baumgardner, Wesley H. Brewer, and John C. Sanford Selection Threshold Severely Constrains Capture of Beneficial Mutations / John C. Sanford, John R. Baumgardner, and Wesley H. Brewer • Using Numerical Simulation to Test the “Mutation-Count” Hypothesis / Wesley H. Brewer, John R. Baumgardner, and John C. Sanford • Can Synergistic Epistasis Halt Mutation Accumulation? Results from Numerical Simulation / John R. Baumgardner, Wesley H. Brewer, and John C. Sanford • Computational Evolution Experiments Reveal a Net Loss of Genetic Information Despite Selection / Chase W. Nelson and John C. Sanford • Information Loss: Potential for Accelerating Natural Genetic Attenuation of RNA Viruses / Wesley H. Brewer, Franzine D. Smith, and John C. Sanford • DNA.EXE: A Sequence Comparison between the Human Genome and Computer Code / Josiah Seaman • Biocybernetics and Biosemiosis / Donald Johnson Section Three: Theoretical Molecular Biology • Introductory Comments / Michael J. Behe • An Ode to the Code: Evidence for Fine-Tuning in the Standard Codon Table / Jed C. Macosko and Amanda M. Smelser • A New Model of Intracellular Communication Based on Coherent, High-Frequency Vibrations in Biomolecules / L. Dent • Getting There First: An Evolutionary Rate Advantage for Adaptive Loss-of-Function Mutations / Michael J. Behe • The Membrane Code: A Carrier of Essential Biological Information That Is Not Specified by DNA and Is Inherited Apart from It / Jonathan Wells • Explaining Metabolic Innovation: Neo-Darwinism versus Design / Douglas D. Axe and Ann K. Gauger Section Four: Biological Information and Self-Organizational Complexity Theory • Introductory Comments / Bruce L. Gordon • Evolution Beyond Entailing Law: The Roles of Embodied Information and Self Organization / Stuart Kauffman • Towards a General Biology: Emergence of Life and Information from the Perspective of Complex Systems Dynamics / Bruce H. Weber
Posted by: olegt on June 06 2013,07:12
Quote (sparc @ June 05 2013,23:16) | They've finally made it: After Springer denied "Biological Information: New Perspectives" ID-creationists somehow must have convinced < World Scientific Publishing Company > to publish it. O'Leary linked to its < Amzon page > at < UD > and < Best Schools >. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
It's usually the other way around: World Scientific has to convince you to write a book. Every time I give a talk at a visible conference, they send me their < CD with Nobel lectures > and prod me to write a review. Their requests promptly end up in trash.
World Scientific's journals that I know are crap.
Posted by: fnxtr on June 06 2013,09:42
Quote (Cubist @ June 06 2013,04:23) | Have downloaded all 20-something PDFs. According to the colophon, the publisher, World Scientific, is a Singapore-based publisher with offices in the US (Hackensack, NJ) and UK (London, England). It would be interesting to know whether anyone at World Scientific is aware of the track records of the various editors/contributors.
The book is credited to five editors (snip) ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Remember how MAD magazine used to list their contributing artists and writers? :-)
eta artists not editors.
Posted by: Freddie on June 06 2013,10:57
From the Front Matter PDF:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Original scientific research was presented and discussed at this symposium, which was then written up, and constitute most of the twenty-four peer-edited papers in this volume. These papers are presented in four sections: Information Theory and Biology, Biological Information and Genetic Theory, Theoretical Molecular Biology, and Self-Organizational Complexity Theory. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
"Peer-Edited". That's just like Peer-Reviewed, yes?
Posted by: JohnW on June 06 2013,11:28
Quote (Cubist @ June 06 2013,04:23) | Entropy, Evolution and Open Systems / Granville Sewell ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Nothing says "serious academic publisher" quite like 2LOT denialism. I assume the Journal of Perpetual Motion is in the pipeline.
Posted by: OgreMkV on June 06 2013,11:43
Quote (Freddie @ June 06 2013,10:57) | From the Front Matter PDF:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Original scientific research was presented and discussed at this symposium, which was then written up, and constitute most of the twenty-four peer-edited papers in this volume. These papers are presented in four sections: Information Theory and Biology, Biological Information and Genetic Theory, Theoretical Molecular Biology, and Self-Organizational Complexity Theory. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
"Peer-Edited". That's just like Peer-Reviewed, yes? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Yep and the flu is "just like" HIV. I mean, they're both viruses right?
And I see Macintosh on this list. How awesome. I trashed one of his papers that was published in the Journal of Design (industrial design that is).
Posted by: Bob O'H on June 06 2013,14:35
I'm reading one of Mark's chapters. In it he writes
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Information of two disjoint events should be additive. That is, if the word stuttering conveys information I1 and professor conveys information I2, then stuttering professor should convey information I1 + I2. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
To me disjoint events are ones that cannot both happen, so there would be no such thing as a "stuttering professor". In engineering, is "disjoint" often used to mean "independent"?
Posted by: Jim_Wynne on June 06 2013,14:55
Quote (Bob O'H @ June 06 2013,14:35) | I'm reading one of Mark's chapters. In it he writes
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Information of two disjoint events should be additive. That is, if the word stuttering conveys information I1 and professor conveys information I2, then stuttering professor should convey information I1 + I2. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
To me disjoint events are ones that cannot both happen, so there would be no such thing as a "stuttering professor". In engineering, is "disjoint" often used to mean "independent"? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
A disjointed idea is one that lacks logical continuity or contains irreconcilable contradictions. A non sequitur is a form of disjointed construction.
Posted by: Henry J on June 06 2013,14:56
But "stuttering" and "professor" aren't events; they're descriptions of people.
Posted by: Bob O'H on June 06 2013,15:28
Quote (Henry J @ June 06 2013,14:56) | But "stuttering" and "professor" aren't events; they're descriptions of people. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
*sigh*
Posted by: sparc on June 06 2013,21:22
< Tom English's > comment on BI:NP.
Posted by: fusilier on June 07 2013,06:10
Quote (olegt @ June 06 2013,08:12) | Quote (sparc @ June 05 2013,23:16) | They've finally made it: {snip of details} ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
It's usually the other way around: World Scientific has to convince you to write a book. Every time I give a talk at a visible conference, they send me their < CD with Nobel lectures > and prod me to write a review. Their requests promptly end up in trash.
World Scientific's journals that I know are crap. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Is this a vanity press?
Posted by: olegt on June 07 2013,07:54
Quote (fusilier @ June 07 2013,06:10) | Is this a vanity press? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
No, it's a real publisher. It's just that < the journals > it puts out are not exactly coveted by scientists, at least in my field. They are at the bottom of the pecking order. Some articles are OK, most are crap.
Posted by: midwifetoad on June 07 2013,09:24
Disjoint? ETA: The intersection of disjoint sets contains elements?
Jebus effing xmas, that man needs to visit Intelligent Reasoning and learn himself some set theory.
Posted by: sparc on June 07 2013,21:28
If one considers what the IDiots would have made out of Biological Information: New Perspectives back in 2005 one can only conclude that UD and the whole ID business is dead. Judging from the comments over there the troops went back to pure creationism which is understandable: Why choose a tasteless surrogat meal if you can have the real Christian beef.
edited for spelling
Posted by: sparc on June 10 2013,14:08
Tiggy has opened a new Biological Information: New Perspectives thread at TheologyWeb
---------------------QUOTE------------------- < Clucky and the Tooters Creation Science available online! > Last year about this time the Discovery Institute began crowing about their science-shaking Cornell Symposium in Biological Information and its coming publication by prestigious science publishing house Springer. The Disco Tooter crowd included the usual Creationist IDiot suspects Behe, Dempski, Marks, Sanford, Wells, Gitt as well as our own Clucky Fraudnandez.
Only problems were, 1) the symposium had nothing to Cornell except thats where the Tooters rented some space, and 2) Springer had been misled into thinking this was a conference on Information Theory, a legitimate mathematical topic.
Springer soon found out the truth and canceled the publication while Cornell didnt take too kindly to having its name associated with such pseudo-scientific claptrap and threatened heavy duty legal action. Bottom line is the Tooters took all their Cornell name-dropping offline beat a hasty retreat. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
It took some time but after plinythedumber asked
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Where is Jorge? (Not that I care much). ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Clucky Fraudnandez couldn't hold back any longer and provided his views for why Springer didn't publish the book:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- As for the two papers that I co-authored, plus the many others that were part of the symposium, I challenge anyone to point out how they could be called "Creationist" or "Religious". They were pure science and WSPC agreed. Springer merely folded in the face of financial considerations, said financial considerations brought about by those that would have EXPELLED Springer. As I once wrote, EXPELLED is both a threat and occurs at many levels. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
(emphasis mine)
Posted by: midwifetoad on June 10 2013,14:39
Pardon me if I don't know who Clucky Fraudnandez is. Doesn't come up with a lot of google hits.
Posted by: Occam's Aftershave on June 10 2013,15:10
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2013,14:39) | Pardon me if I don't know who Clucky Fraudnandez is. Doesn't come up with a lot of google hits. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
That would be Jorge Fernandez, a rather clueless and obnoxious YEC who posts regularly at TheologyWeb and who co-authored some of the BI:NP papers. Think Joe Gallien but without the obscenities.
He has such a reputation for chickening out and running from all attempts to get him to back up his YEC bluster the regulars often refer to him as "Clucky".
Posted by: fusilier on June 11 2013,08:02
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2013,15:39) | Pardon me if I don't know who Clucky Fraudnandez is. Doesn't come up with a lot of google hits. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge is a Kent Hovind acolyte. Over on CARM, a few years ago, he actually said that light from the headlamps of a spaceship travelling at 0.9c would be traveling at 1.9 c.
Posted by: midwifetoad on June 11 2013,08:54
Quote (fusilier @ June 11 2013,08:02) | Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2013,15:39) | Pardon me if I don't know who Clucky Fraudnandez is. Doesn't come up with a lot of google hits. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge is a Kent Hovind acolyte. Over on CARM, a few years ago, he actually said that light from the headlamps of a spaceship travelling at 0.9c would be traveling at 1.9 c. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
That would be an interesting link to include in a review.
Posted by: JohnW on June 11 2013,11:52
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 11 2013,06:54) | Quote (fusilier @ June 11 2013,08:02) | Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2013,15:39) | Pardon me if I don't know who Clucky Fraudnandez is. Doesn't come up with a lot of google hits. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge is a Kent Hovind acolyte. Over on CARM, a few years ago, he actually said that light from the headlamps of a spaceship travelling at 0.9c would be traveling at 1.9 c. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
That would be an interesting link to include in a review. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Filed under "things to ask Joe about on a slow Friday afternoon".
Posted by: midwifetoad on June 11 2013,12:30
Well, someone illustrious to carry the banner for ID alongside Dembski and Behe deserves a Best Of.
Posted by: Dr.GH on June 11 2013,20:36
Quote (fusilier @ June 11 2013,06:02) | Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2013,15:39) | Pardon me if I don't know who Clucky Fraudnandez is. Doesn't come up with a lot of google hits. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge is a Kent Hovind acolyte. Over on CARM, a few years ago, he actually said that light from the headlamps of a spaceship travelling at 0.9c would be traveling at 1.9 c. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Well, when I was 19 and stoned, that made some sort of sense.
43 years later, it is just stupid.
Posted by: Henry J on June 11 2013,23:13
Maybe to somebody who's never heard of Einstein or relativity?
Prior to that insight, it might well have been considered common sense.
Henry
Posted by: fusilier on June 12 2013,07:50
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 11 2013,09:54) | Quote (fusilier @ June 11 2013,08:02) | Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2013,15:39) | Pardon me if I don't know who Clucky Fraudnandez is. Doesn't come up with a lot of google hits. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Jorge is a Kent Hovind acolyte. Over on CARM, a few years ago, he actually said that light from the headlamps of a spaceship travelling at 0.9c would be traveling at 1.9 c. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
That would be an interesting link to include in a review. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Like at UD, inconvenient posts disappear on a fairly regular basis.
Posted by: sparc on June 13 2013,14:12
I just left the following review at the German Amazon pages:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I had the chance to read the online version of the chapter "Biological Information What is It?" by Werner Gitt, Robert Compton and Jorge Fernandez. It seems to be a short version of their book "Without Excuse" which is also availble at Amazon.com. They refer to their book 17 times while the other 13 reference together are mentioned 18 times. Unfortunately, "in Biological Information What is It?" the authors kept quiet about the main conclusion they draw in their book namely (cited from the Amazon blurb of "Without Excuse"):
---------------------QUOTE------------------- "With his co-authors, information scientist Dr Werner Gitt provides the most rigorous and useful definition of information thus far. He distinguishes this Universal Information (real information) from things often mistakenly called information, and shows how ultimately all biological information comes from God." ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: sparc on June 23 2013,23:27
Looking forward to the series of reviews on the content of Biological Information: New Perspectives Tom English announced on his < DiEBlog >.
Posted by: Arctodus23 on June 29 2013,23:57
Quote (sparc @ June 13 2013,14:12) | I just left the following review at the German Amazon pages:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- I had the chance to read the online version of the chapter "Biological Information What is It?" by Werner Gitt, Robert Compton and Jorge Fernandez. It seems to be a short version of their book "Without Excuse" which is also availble at Amazon.com. They refer to their book 17 times while the other 13 reference together are mentioned 18 times. Unfortunately, "in Biological Information What is It?" the authors kept quiet about the main conclusion they draw in their book namely (cited from the Amazon blurb of "Without Excuse"):
---------------------QUOTE------------------- "With his co-authors, information scientist Dr Werner Gitt provides the most rigorous and useful definition of information thus far. He distinguishes this Universal Information (real information) from things often mistakenly called information, and shows how ultimately all biological information comes from God." ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
There's ought to be a lot of down votes.
Posted by: sparc on June 30 2013,22:57
Granville Sewell has to remind < Barry Arrington > not to leave the party line:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Barry, Please dont refer to the Cornell proceedings as an ID-oriented book. I was at the conference, and while a majority (but certainly not all) of the presenters were ID proponents, I dont recall that ID was ever mentioned by any of the talks. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
However, as DiEB points out it's too late already:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data Biological informationnew perspectives : proceedings of a symposium held May 31, 2011 through June 3, 2011 at Cornell University / Robert J. Marks II, Baylor University, USA, Michael J. Behe, Lehigh University, USA, William A. Dembski, Discovery Institute, USA, Bruce L. Gordon, Houston Baptist University, USA John C. Sanford Cornell University, USA. pages cm Includes bibliographical references and index. ISBN 978-9814508711 (hardcover : alk. paper) 1. GenomicsCongresses. 2. Molecular geneticsCongresses. 3. Cell interactionCongresses. 4. Mutation (Biology)Congresses. 5. Intelligent design (Teleology)Congresses. I. Marks, Robert J., II (Robert Jackson), 1950QH426.B58 2013 572.8629dc23 ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: stevestory on July 01 2013,09:40
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
7 Granville SewellJune 30, 2013 at 5:19 pm DiEb, I dont know who included the ID tag, I didnt have anything to do with the Library of Congress tags for any of my books, perhaps the publisher (World Scientific) did write this. But it is an inaccurate tag, whoever added it. I guess any paper that criticizes Darwinism, without including an alternative materialistic theory of evolution, is automatically tagged as ID. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Derp!
Posted by: sparc on July 01 2013,14:33
Barry Arrington gets mad about the fact that Springer decided not to publish BI:NP in several posts and of course he couldn't resist to play his usual Nazi card: < Nick Matzke Book Burner? > < Will Our Darwinist Friends Be Telling Us Next That Arbeit Macht Frei? > < It Gets Even Better >
What I really enjoy though, is seeing Granville Sewell being pissed off because when I wrote to Springer to ask them if they were serious I choose him as an example of what they were going to publish and pointed out that his article is unlikely to match their usual standards. I wrote:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- E.g., the talk "A second look at the second law of thermodynamics" is likely by Granville Sewell who has published the same story under similar titles at least three times, partially self-plagiarized. The last time the editors of Applied Mathematics Letters retracted the article (Unfortunately, they agreed to pay Sewell's legal fees in the aftermath). You will find some information on this on the Pandasthumb.org and on retractionwatch.com. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Posted by: sparc on July 01 2013,15:07
---------------------QUOTE------------------- 98 julianbre < July 1, 2013 at 1:43 pm > Dr. Liddle, you said As much right as Springer had to offer to publish them, having not read them. And indeed to rescind the offer when alerted as to the nature of the conference. The book had been peer reviewed by two reviewers at Springer and was ready for publication. You think Springer publishes books, especially ones that cost over $100.00 with out even reading them? Really? ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
If they hadn't ban me I would ask UDists for the names of these reviewers. I am afraid we will neither learn who they were nor who suggested them. In addition, it would be interesting to know if the same two peers reviewed the book for World Scientific again. Or will World Scientific publish it without being peer reviewed?
---------------------QUOTE------------------- Springer pulled the book after the panda people contacted them and threatened a boycott of their company if they went ahead with the publication of Biological informationNew Perspectives. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Does this IDiot really think that Pandasthumb has so much power?
---------------------QUOTE------------------- How is that not censorship since Nick and his buddies had never read the book and had no idea what was in it. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Did he not read the Nick's post? Nick and the commenters concluded from the titles of the different chapters who would be the most likely author and what they would most likely be writing about. Based on experience nothing much new was to be expected and it turned out that we were right. The only news was that they managed to not mention the designer. At least they claim so.
Posted by: sparc on July 01 2013,15:19
Meanwhile Nick < keeps calm and asks about onions >.
Posted by: sparc on July 01 2013,23:08
Quote (sparc @ July 01 2013,14:33) | Barry Arrington gets mad about the fact that Springer decided not to publish BI:NP in several posts and of course he couldn't resist to play his usual Nazi card: < Nick Matzke Book Burner? > < Will Our Darwinist Friends Be Telling Us Next That Arbeit Macht Frei? > < It Gets Even Better >
What I really enjoy though, is seeing Granville Sewell being pissed off because when I wrote to Springer to ask them if they were serious I choose him as an example of what they were going to publish and pointed out that his article is unlikely to match their usual standards. I wrote:
---------------------QUOTE------------------- E.g., the talk "A second look at the second law of thermodynamics" is likely by Granville Sewell who has published the same story under similar titles at least three times, partially self-plagiarized. The last time the editors of Applied Mathematics Letters retracted the article (Unfortunately, they agreed to pay Sewell's legal fees in the aftermath). You will find some information on this on the Pandasthumb.org and on retractionwatch.com. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
---------------------QUOTE-------------------
Rather than discuss with Liddle in the comments section of his first post Barry Arrington prefers to act as the loudspeaker in the ceiling and fills UD's front page declaring victory:
< Liddle doubles down > < Liddle Finally Comes Around (Kind of) >
(edited to separate fused links)
Posted by: Febble on July 02 2013,06:09
Does anyone know who did write to Springer?
Bob O'Hara did, I know.
Sparc? Did you post the text of your letter and/or the response?
I don't see where Nick did. Anyone? And what about that boycott?
Not accusing people, I just like facts.
And yes, the irony of being accused of being a fascist and a censor, goaded with jeers of "Arbeit macht frei" in the same thread/topic as I am simultaneously accused of NOT censoring a post at TSZ in which OMagain responds to Kairosfocus's likening of Alan Fox to a German Nazi enabler, and which he noted Kairosfocus' anti-homosexuality was also a Nazi agenda, is not lost on me.
Or, at, any rate, renders any irony meter within a few million miles non-functional.
As Tom Lehrer said, when Kissinger got the Nobel Peace prize: satire is dead.
Posted by: sparc on July 02 2013,06:49
Quote (Febble @ July 02 2013,06:09) | Does anyone know who did write to Springer?
Bob O'Hara did, I know.
Sparc? Did you post the text of your letter and/or the response?
I don't see where Nick did. Anyone? And what about that boycott?
Not accusing people, I just like facts.
And yes, the irony of being accused of being a fascist and a censor, goaded with jeers of "Arbeit macht frei" in the same thread/topic as I am simultaneously accused of NOT censoring a post at TSZ in which OMagain responds to Kairosfocus's likening of Alan Fox to a German Nazi enabler, and which he noted Kairosfocus' anti-homosexuality was also a Nazi agenda, is not lost on me.
Or, at, any rate, renders any irony meter within a few million miles non-functional.
As Tom Lehrer said, when Kissinger got the Nobel Peace prize: satire is dead. ---------------------QUOTE-------------------
The quote is part of the mail I wrote to Springer in which I asked them if they were aware of what they are publishing. I don't feel accused and I still think I was right in doing so. They could have easily published the articles at UD if they were feeling being censored. But they kept quiet until they managed to get it published by World Scientific.
Posted by: stevestory on July 02 2013,09:38
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