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Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2010,18:58    Quote (dogdidit @ Aug. 16 2010,15:21) Along those lines:     Quote Bilbo says: Oleg(t), So you're the last resident critic at TT. Can I get you a cup of coffee? The New York Times? A neck massage? I don't know how long it will be before you get banned, too. But I figure you deserve special treatment for lasting this long. And thank you. You're the only thing stopping TT from being a complete echo chamber. olegt, you have the power. Use it wisely. Olegt's comment inviting Bilbo to AtBC got deleted. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2010,19:07    Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 16 2010,18:58) Olegt's comment inviting Bilbo to AtBC got deleted. Quote olegt: Heh, what are you, guys, afraid of? That your members will run off to the Swamp? Not bloody likely. Have the courage to return my comment here. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2010,19:17    Olegt's latest comment disappeared. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2010,19:19    Quote Bradford: Bilbo, why don't you participate in the off-list forum? You are listed as a member and all you have to do is sign in and vote. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,09:10    ID Guy identifies a point at which the designer intervenes: Quote That is incorrect because as far as you know gene duplications are part of a targeted search- meaning an intelligent designer did participate. Care to prove it? You can never win with these fools. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,09:42    Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 16 2010,19:19) Quote Bradford: Bilbo, why don't you participate in the off-list forum? You are listed as a member and all you have to do is sign in and vote. They're trying to make light of it, Funny, given Expelled!, etc. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,09:51    If you're going to do it, creobots, have some class: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,09:51    Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 17 2010,09:42) Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 16 2010,19:19) Quote Bradford: Bilbo, why don't you participate in the off-list forum? You are listed as a member and all you have to do is sign in and vote. They're trying to make light of it, Funny, given Expelled!, etc. ID is like psychics who claim to contact the dead. A single unbeliever stops it working and so they have to be EXPELLED! -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,11:06    And now Bilbo says: Quote Bilbo Says: August 17th, 2010 at 11:59 am No, Chunk. Do you think he is? But thanks to Bradford, I now have access to the off-list forum, where I have suggested that the banning policy be changed so that 1) There is an announcement when someone is banned. 2) There is an announcement as to why they were banned. I stated that by doing neither that we are engendering suspicion that our motives are not above board. I am awaiting input from other moderators before I do anything else. Comment by Bilbo — August 17, 2010 @ 11:59 am No comic sans for you, Bilbo! Come over here mate, your being far too honest for that place. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,11:11    Bilbo has his own blog: http://bilbos1.blogspot.com/ I sent him the invite. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,11:50    Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 17 2010,07:51) If you're going to do it, creobots, have some class: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/plonk.php Oh, man. I read that, then went surfing around until I got to the LHC post, wherein "Sastra" left this gem about Leon Lederman:   Quote He'd written a book called The God Particle which, of course, had nothing to do with God at all. It was a nickname for, I think, the Higg's bosun. Hahahaha! "Arrr, me lads, make full sail for supersymmetry!" Hahahahaha! -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2010,12:29    Is it Friday? http://telicthoughts.com/testing-the-evolvability-of-the-flagellum/ Quote chunkdz Says: August 17th, 2010 at 1:17 pm Bilbo, If you think that is appropriate language, start your own thread… Of course it's your call. I just tend to parse between obvious satire and gratuitous insult. And Chunk, if you got a problem with me or my policies, I'm quite willing to leave TT. Just say the word. Please don't leave Bilbo. Comment by chunkdz — August 17, 2010 @ 1:17 pm -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2010,09:50    Bradford points in the direction of The Washington Times: . Quote During the debate, Lord Whitty, former environment minister under the Labor government, claimed 95 percent of scientists were in agreement that man was responsible for a coming climatic cataclysm. Lord Monckton, representing climate realists, asked him to provide a reference backing up the claim. The audience jeered Lord Whitty for having none beyond, "Everyone knows it's true." Quote Anderegga et al., Expert credibility in climate change, PNAS 2010: Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2010,17:00    YES! Quotemine! http://telicthoughts.com/open-th....-261419 Slimy Sal Sez: Quote There were some incredible account of Christians on both sides of the war on the same battle field pitted against each other. But there are no accounts like this in the Muslim faith. Comment by Salvador T. Cordova — August 19, 2010 @ 11:31 am Those Christians, always in-fighting. Not at all like those nice Muslims! -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 23 2010,07:15    Couple of odds and ends from Telic Thoughts. Quote angryoldfatman: For instance, the world successfully moved from extremely finite whale oil resources to much more plentiful petroleum and then finally to practically inifinite electricity to light up their homes, all without government-funded think tanks planning exactly how one should be phased out and the next should be phased in. If our government treated environmentalists like France's did (or hell, like France pretty much treats everybody), we'd have enough nuclear power to have practically eliminated the use of coal by now. That would mean nationalization of most of the electrical production. Électricité de France, which generates most of the power in France, is a majority state-owned corporation. Quote angryoldfatman: But you know, we've got to keep the Birkenstock-wearing latte-sippers happy, along with the coal-miner unions and the railroad unions and the black-lung lawsuit lawyers and the mine-collapse lawsuit lawyers and all the other dependent industries who'd need to find other things to do. -- Not sure what to make of this from JOHN_A_DESIGNER: Quote JOHN_A_DESIGNER: According to Ken Miller: Quote Bacteria are known to ingest all sorts of things, everything from crude oil to sulfur, so the discovery of one that could eat nylon would not have been very remarkable if not for one small detail: nylon is synthetic; it didn’t exist anywhere in nature until 1935, when it was invented by an organic chemist at the chemical company Dupont. Do you see the spin? The pejorative use of synthetic– like it is completely unnatural. But then, why did they need organic chemists to synthesize it? What does he think "synthetic" means? Or is he confused on the term "organic" in organic chemists, which just refers to carbon chemistry? Or does he think it's supposed to be supernatural?! -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

qetzal Posts: 311 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 23 2010,11:33    Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 23 2010,07:15) Or is he confused...?! Yes.

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 23 2010,12:03    Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 23 2010,05:15) Couple of odds and ends from Telic Thoughts. Quote angryoldfatman: For instance, the world successfully moved from extremely finite whale oil resources to much more plentiful petroleum and then finally to practically inifinite electricity to light up their homes, all without government-funded think tanks planning exactly how one should be phased out and the next should be phased in. If our government treated environmentalists like France's did (or hell, like France pretty much treats everybody), we'd have enough nuclear power to have practically eliminated the use of coal by now. That would mean nationalization of most of the electrical production. Électricité de France, which generates most of the power in France, is a majority state-owned corporation. Quote angryoldfatman: But you know, we've got to keep the Birkenstock-wearing latte-sippers happy, along with the coal-miner unions and the railroad unions and the black-lung lawsuit lawyers and the mine-collapse lawsuit lawyers and all the other dependent industries who'd need to find other things to do. -- Not sure what to make of this from JOHN_A_DESIGNER: Quote JOHN_A_DESIGNER: According to Ken Miller: Quote Bacteria are known to ingest all sorts of things, everything from crude oil to sulfur, so the discovery of one that could eat nylon would not have been very remarkable if not for one small detail: nylon is synthetic; it didn’t exist anywhere in nature until 1935, when it was invented by an organic chemist at the chemical company Dupont. Do you see the spin? The pejorative use of synthetic– like it is completely unnatural. But then, why did they need organic chemists to synthesize it? What does he think "synthetic" means? Or is he confused on the term "organic" in organic chemists, which just refers to carbon chemistry? Or does he think it's supposed to be supernatural?! Maybe in JAD's world, organic chemists= no pesticides? -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2010,17:58    Bradford:   Quote In pagan societies and in societies where there is no Christianity, marriage has been historically defined as a union between a man and a woman. It is the redefinition of this that was driven by secular authorities in contravention to the will of the people. Giggdy. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 27 2010,05:14    Allen_MacNeill:   Quote Interesting; I take a look at a thread that appeared at first to be about philosophy of science, and lo and behold it morphs into what looks like a typical comments thread at Fox News. I admit I occasionally go there to rubberneck at the cultural equivalent of a bad motor vehicle accident, but to find the same kind of thing happening here, well…it's discouraging. nullasalus:   Quote All in favor of discouraging Allen MacNeill and company, raise your hand. *hand goes up* Apparently there's still too little echo in the chamber. Might as well leave them to it. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2010,08:35    Bradford lives in a bubble. Quote Bradford: ID critics and leftists can comment to their hearts content as long as they are not trollish or uncivil. The fact that there are ID critics who have been commenting at TT for years, and still do, is evidence of that. The last comment by Zachriel that appeared on Telic Thoughts was on May 16, 111.094 days ago. During the interim, all Zachriel's comments have disappeared into the mist. (Xposted to Telic Thoughts, but never appeared.) -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2010,12:23    Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 04 2010,08:35) Bradford lives in a bubble. Quote Bradford: ID critics and leftists can comment to their hearts content as long as they are not trollish or uncivil. The fact that there are ID critics who have been commenting at TT for years, and still do, is evidence of that. The last comment by Zachriel that appeared on Telic Thoughts was on May 16, 111.094 days ago. During the interim, all Zachriel's comments have disappeared into the mist. (Xposted to Telic Thoughts, but never appeared.) It's a shame, because TT couldhave be relevent to the ID / EVO dialogue. But it's just another right-wingnut site. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2010,10:16    Quote Bilbo: Would anybody else know if it's physically possible to design perfect DNA repair mechanisms? I realize that we have banned most of the critics who might be able to answer my question. Would the remaining few have an idea? Of course, if you answer, you might get banned. I have no power to stop anyone from banning you. It's a risk you must be willing to take. It's getting rather quiet over at Telic Thoughts. To answer Bilbo's question; No. Quantum mechanics precludes perfect molecular replication or repair (though it can approach perfection). The question, though, is whether DNA replication is optimal. And optimal for what? Bacterial cells under stress can become hypermutators. On the other hand, mutations in somatic cells should generally be minimized. - Added in Edit: If we consider replication as a transmission of information, then the Shannon–Hartley theorem shows that near-perfect transmission is possible, but there are always sources of noise that preclude perfect transmission. With regards to DNA replication, sources of noise include radiation and other chemicals in the cellular environment. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2010,12:43    Quote It's getting rather quiet over at Telic Thoughts. To paraphrase Tootsie "when was it ever busy," Johnathan Bartlett is trying to drum up business for his posts on “Evolutionary Chance Mutation: A Defense of the Modern Synthesis" . I almost feel sorry for him. link

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2010,16:28    It would be interesting to compare the mutation rate in DNA with the unrecoverable error rate for hard drives. I think you would want to match the number of bits written and read. I'm betting hard drives are better by several orders of magnitude. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2010,16:36    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 11 2010,14:28) It would be interesting to compare the mutation rate in DNA with the unrecoverable error rate for hard drives. I think you would want to match the number of bits written and read. I'm betting hard drives are better by several orders of magnitude. But since multiple codons can translate to the same aa, DNA is more forgiving of errors. In machine language, 0 is 0 and 1 is 1 and never the twain etc... -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2010,07:52    Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 04 2010,12:23)   Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 04 2010,08:35) Bradford lives in a bubble.     Quote Bradford: ID critics and leftists can comment to their hearts content as long as they are not trollish or uncivil. The fact that there are ID critics who have been commenting at TT for years, and still do, is evidence of that. The last comment by Zachriel that appeared on Telic Thoughts was on May 16, 111.094 days ago. During the interim, all Zachriel's comments have disappeared into the mist. (Xposted to Telic Thoughts, but never appeared.) It's a shame, because TT couldhave be relevent to the ID / EVO dialogue. But it's just another right-wingnut site. What would the terms of a proper dialogue have to be? Is a proper dialogue thinkable, possible? I am afraid the answer is no. Isn't there always an element of science denial and lack of effort in research or study and understanding of evolutionary theory on the creationist side of the divide? The problem is the desire to believe creationism of some sort and/or the incapability of evolutionary science to point at a piece of irrefutable evidence like for example the fact of gravity. If it isn't information theory it is the fossil record, radiometric dating, continental drift,ice ages, the Grand Canyon or just the Bible. There's something there for everyone wanting to be a creationist. People want to be creationists; the alternative is too frightening. Although by and large, that problem seems to have been solved here in Europe. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2010,12:30    Arf! http://telicthoughts.com/open-th....-261916 Quote chunkdz Says: September 14th, 2010 at 8:06 pm Bilbo: Hi Chunk. I banned you from this thread. Was it because of the "douche" thing, the "balls" thing, or the "bigot" thing? Comment by chunkdz — September 14, 2010 @ 8:06 pm -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2010,12:54    Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 15 2010,07:30) Arf! http://telicthoughts.com/open-th....-261916   Quote chunkdz Says: September 14th, 2010 at 8:06 pm Bilbo: Hi Chunk. I banned you from this thread. Was it because of the "douche" thing, the "balls" thing, or the "bigot" thing? Comment by chunkdz — September 14, 2010 @ 8:06 pm You have to hand it to Bilbo. He may go dancing in the snow at 4 am but at least he has some integrity!

Alan Fox Posts: 1556 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2010,13:47    Quote People want to be creationists; the alternative is too frightening. I reckon the innate desire to believe in some supernatural deity is a heritable trait. And one that could conceivably have had a survival value. for instance, it may have been an avenue, or at least support for that avenue, for social integration beyond the family group and thus possibly critical for the development of civilisation. Which should make us all the more aware for our propensity to gullibility!  ;) ETA or is it "propensity for gullibility"?

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2010,21:47    Bradford have said many silly things but this one just takes the cake:   Quote Genomic integrity requires a degree of stability. The question raised at or near point of origin is whether a "primitive genome" could be both dynamic and stable. I realize that the answer to this among ID critics is a given and the question itself of no interest to them. But until viable "precursor genomes" become observable and stable reproducing entities, imagination will have to be our only guide. Of course. No. Scientists have no interest whatsoever in the origin of genomes. This must be a hoax:   Quote In a special theme issue of the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, two dozen experts discuss genome evolution—starting from the deep beginnings in the presumably RNA world, through rampant genome innovation through lateral gene transfer across species, to the divergent histories of particular genes and gene families. They touch upon an emerging concept of the supergenome, which describes the set of all genes in the local environment that a prokaryote has potential access to because of lateral-transfer processes. Based on genomes of primitive organisms, researchers are piecing together the genetic tool kit of the earliest bilateral animals. And one paper argues that viruses, being vast sources of genetic material, cannot be dismissed as nonliving material. -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

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