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Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,06:24    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 02 2007,00:04) here are the articles: http://wpherald.com/article....gm.html Haeckel’s embryos, Miller-Urey...*yawn* Try as you may, you can't shine shit. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,06:30    DaveScot     Quote Many worlds and multiverse hypotheses don’t pass the giggle test. Yeah. Next thing you know, those crazy scientists will be saying that mountains rise up out of oceans or that we can tell what stars are made of by gazing at rainbows. wingless     Quote Let’s not accuse scientists of being dishonest. DaveScot     Quote If the shoe fits then yes, let us do just that. Oh no! They're ALL lying!! It’s an international conspiracy of geologists, physicists, cosmologists, biologists, geneticists, paleontologists, astronomers, biochemists, microbiologists, phylogenists, systematists, climatologists, paleoclimatologists, ecologists, paleoecologists, dendronologists, oceanographers, anatomists, biophysicists, molecular biologists, morphologists, botanists, paleobotanists, physiologists, mathematicians, computational biologists, and {gasp} even Stephen Hawking! It’s vast! And that gangsta rapper, MC Hawking the Hawkman, can be quite threatening (to the scientifically illiterate). -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,06:35    Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 02 2007,06:00)       Quote Apparently the atmosphere concerning ID in Turkey is not nearly as hostile as it is here in the U.S. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't an honest to goodness Muslim show up over at UD a short time ago and promptly get chased out with pitchforks and torches? Have you ever noticed with IDers that in one sentence they will declaim the staggering growth of ID's megasuperhyperpopularity (particularly in Denmark and now apparently Turkey), then in the next sentence whine that they are subject to hostility, censorship, and oppression so overwhelming that they can't even propose any actual theory or potential supporting research*? Which one is it?  Is ID more popular than Jebus Walmart or more hated than Satan Howard K. Stern? ---- *Additionally, on a personal level, the intellectual climate is so smothering that Denyse O'Dreary has been rendered incapable of constructing a grammatically-correct English sentence, Bill Dembski cannot surface long enough to write a book he's already been paid for, and D'Tard has been reduced to a gibbering, cheesy-poof smeared heap of quivering Marine lard. -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,06:40    Quote Japanese Pro-ID Cartoon William Dembski Here’s a pro-ID cartoon that appeared in the Tokyo Sekai Nippo: More WAD as ID/Christian Warrior fantasy imagery.  With all the sophistication of Snoopy vs. the Red Baron. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,06:41    Da capo ad nauseam. A musical term. A song with a chorus that repeats forever (or for as long as the beer holds out). Evolution is just a theory. Scientists to us do lie. Intelligent Design is not about religion. Evolution makes Jesus cry. (ID math makes my head hurt, Oh, the numbers are SO big.) Evolution makes me giggle and barf, wriggle and parse, wiggle my arse. Da capo ad nauseam. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,06:50    inunison   Quote Perry Marchall put it this way: 1. All languages, codes, protocols and encoding / decoding mechanisms that we know the origin of come from a mind - there are no known exceptions 2. DNA is a language, a code, a protocol, and an encoding / decoding mechanism 3. Therefore DNA came from a mind. Thank you, inunison, for providing such a clear example of fallacious reasoning. Not only do you assume your conclusion, but you base the strength of the syllogism on the extent of your ignorance. Bravo! Let's rephrase that.   Quote 1. All languages, codes, protocols and encoding / decoding mechanisms that we know the origin of come from a human mind - there are no known exceptions 2. DNA is a language, a code, a protocol, and an encoding / decoding mechanism 3. Therefore DNA came from a human mind. So you are God. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,07:14    Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 02 2007,06:00) Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't an honest to goodness Muslim show up over at UD a short time ago and promptly get chased out with pitchforks and torches? Odd, isn't it, since another honest-to-goodness Muslim testified at the Kansas Kangaroo Kourt in favor of ID, arguing that the Muslim religious nuts in the Middle East might not hate us so much if we agreed with some of their religious nuttery -- like ID. But then, ID isn't about religion, ya know.  (snicker)  (giggle) -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Occam's Toothbrush Posts: 555 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,07:29    Quote (Zachriel @ Mar. 02 2007,06:50) Perry Marchall put it this way: 1. All languages, codes, protocols and encoding / decoding mechanisms that we know the origin of come from a mind - there are no known exceptions 2. DNA is a language, a code, a protocol, and an encoding / decoding mechanism 3. Therefore DNA came from a mind. I'm surprised that this response has lasted over an hour:           Quote (peanutaxis @ 03/02/2007, 6:23 am) Ah, that is an interesting argument! Following the links I can see that the refutation will involve the first premise, and again goes back to whether information can pop out of disorder. (I am now wondering whether even the bonding of two hydrogen atoms involves information)?! Nevertheless that is indeed a powerful argument. I think I may begin praying to the ID: Vishnu Possibly the most delicious aspect of enjoying ID tard is their incredibly low capacity for detecting sarcasm and irony whenever it's cloaked in the faintest pretense of ID-friendliness. I'm waiting for the day when everyone on UD realizes that everyone else is a loki troll and the whole thing just vanishes in a puff of satirical smoke. -------------- "Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers ------ "You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,08:26    Quote (Zachriel @ Mar. 02 2007,06:41) Da capo ad nauseam. A musical term. A song with a chorus that repeats forever (or for as long as the beer holds out). It's traditional to drink after every verse. It's also traditional to slap the bar wench's derrière at the end of the chorus. (The bar wench only puts up with this because she needs the money to finish her Master's in paleoclimatology so she can save the world from human-induced global climate change.) -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,09:04    Occam's Toothbrush Posted on Mar. 02 2007,15:29 : Quote I'm waiting for the day when everyone on UD realizes that everyone else is a loki troll and the whole thing just vanishes in a puff of satirical smoke. Do they even realize they are satarizing themselves and their divinity? Zachriel reveals a wit dryer than a teetotal thirsty Arab. Help .....Al Queda sends in humorists Arab Comedy - teaching white guys how to make bombs and hate wimin. Quote (ID math makes my head hurt, Oh, the numbers are SO big.) etc And echoes a quote from the devils dictionary. Quote Let's rephrase that.  Quote   1. All languages, codes, protocols and encoding / decoding mechanisms that we know the origin of come from a human mind - there are no known exceptions 2. DNA is a language, a code, a protocol, and an encoding / decoding mechanism 3. Therefore DNA came from a human mind. So you are God. Of course he is, he's the typical completely unself aware projecting creationist. or BRAHMA, n. He who created the Hindoos, who are preserved by Vishnu and destroyed by Siva — a rather neater division of labor than is found among the deities of some other nations. The Abracadabranese, for example, are created by Sin, maintained by Theft and destroyed by Folly. The priests of Brahma, like those of Abracadabranese, are holy and learned men who are never naughty. O Brahma, thou rare old Divinity, First Person of the Hindoo Trinity, You sit there so calm and securely, With feet folded up so demurely — You're the First Person Singular, surely. —Polydore Smith From: The Devils Dictionary oh....Just noticed is that a  Hogarth? -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,09:12    gpuccio   Quote Some scientists, if not dihonest, really need to understand what the scientific method is about. Gpuccio confuses himself over semantics. The word "fact" has several related meanings. Often, the word refers to specific observables. Other times, it refers to valid inferences that are so strongly supported that they can be considered as facts. Gravity is observed. The Theory of Gravity explains these observations. Gravity is a fact and a theory. Evolution is observed. The Theory of Evolution explains these observations. Evolution is a fact and a theory. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

steve_h Posts: 544 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,10:24    Quote This chapter develops a relational ontology of communion in which to be is to be in communion, first with God and then with the rest of creation. Moreover,  when entities are in communion, what they communicate is information. Information thus becomes a metaphysical relation between entities that gets reflected in the complex specified information observable in the physical world. It follows that the fundamental science - indeed the science that needs to ground all other sciences --- is a theory of communication. Such a science is incapable of being divorced from metaphysics in the way that the mechanistic  science of the modern era was regularly divorced from metaphysics. (Typos mine) Extract from Dembsk's proposal for a book on real ID that he would write for the TF. I suspect this chapter was missing from the book on ID-lite that he actually delivered. They should ask for their money back.

slpage Posts: 349 Joined: June 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,10:28    Quote (phonon @ Mar. 01 2007,10:36) http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....t-92420   Quote It’s quite amazing that basically evolution is magic, yet evolutionists accuse ID of being magic. To the ancients, lightning seemed like magic. To a child, a card trick seems like magic. This is a result of something called ignorance. To you, evolution seems like magic for the same reason. But, I've got a feeling about Jared White. Maybe he's a faux tard? His whole post seems like it might be a fake. http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....t-92464   Quote Let science get honest, follow Newton’s lead, and just say, “we don’t know.” Huh? Stop being reasonable!! You'll take all the fun out of this. Look, Dembski KNOWS dammit! He knows that Jesus Christ is the intelligent designer that created all of us to worship and praise him. Now worship! http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....t-92507   Quote Because they are far more beholden to actual empirical evidence. If physicists and chemists make up stories about their results, people can die. Oh yeah, remember the massacre after the Jan Henrik Schon incident? http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....t-92511   Quote Physicists don’t. They consider the Big Bang, a “supernatural” event, to be a respectable idea. There is also the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics in which an observer (a cognitive agent) is needed to collapse the wavefunction. Take note, bfast. This is how real tard is done. Yes, the BB is supernatural, bfast. Don't start with that "we don't know" crapola. And the Copenhagen interpretation says that humans are supernatural. Didn't you learn that part in your QM class? http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....t-92600   Quote But physicists open-mindedly consider cognitive agency to be a potentially indispensible part of scientific explanation. Compare this to the closed-mindedness of “official biology.” Yeah, bfast! Official biology posits that there are no observers. The data just assembles itself by...magic. Wow. Evolution IS magic, after all. bfast is just a fucking[http://www.evolutionisdead.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2397&highlight=#2397] retard[/URL], excuse my French... Oh, and are you ready for this - he is a Christian!  But that has nothing to do with his rejection of evolution, oh no....

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,11:10    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 02 2007,06:40) Quote Japanese Pro-ID Cartoon William Dembski Here’s a pro-ID cartoon that appeared in the Tokyo Sekai Nippo: More WAD as ID/Christian Warrior fantasy imagery.  With all the sophistication of Snoopy vs. the Red Baron. CAN THIS CAUSE A SCHISM IN ID-LAND? In this corner, 90 lb weakling,, bespeckled pencil-necked geek Bill Dembski. In the other corner, wearing cheesy-poof stained pitted undershirt, ex-Marine Boy DaveTard. Ah Bill?  Before you go pushing Japanese cartoons on your minions, you might want to consider that your #1 Fan is DaveScot, the ex-Marine.  He might have an "institutional memory" of places called Guadacanal, Iwo Jima, things like that; even though he really only repaired airplanes, your latest ID scoop does not reek of Intelligent Design.  Although it is as IC as a pile of poop... -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,11:26    Larry Fafarman Quote Lord Ernest Rutherford said, “All science is either physics or stamp collecting.” This apparently gave biologists an inferiority complex, so they decided to come up with something that physics doesn’t have: a grand supreme overarching unifying “theory of everything,” Darwinism. Um, Rutherford was not even born (1871) when Origin of Species was published (1859). -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Faid Posts: 1143 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,11:35    Quote tribune7 03/02/2007 8:02 am OK, it looks like they cartoonist is saying that Meyer and Johnson are commanders of the aircraft carrier, Behe, Dembski and Wells are bomber pilots, and the creationists are foot soldiers. The otherside, meanwhile, looks like it’s getting bombed to heck. We are smiling and they are not. Um... Who's WE again, trib?   :D -------------- A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty: "The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information" "...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

Faid Posts: 1143 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,11:38    I wonder why Dembski didn't link to the cartoon itself, or the whole picture for that matter. Hmm... ...Could this be an "image mine"? -------------- A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty: "The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information" "...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

Wonderpants Posts: 115 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,12:52    Quote Even more magical thinking: Liberal Dawinists claim that their “Theory” (wink wink) actually is capable of making predictions! The only predictions it seems capable of making is that the biology departments at american universities will continue to dillegently work toward the destruction of our Christian America and keep us all crying and moaning over our poor treatment of rapists, murderers, child molesters and filthy arab terrorists. The only thing that Evolution allows a scientist to do is to join the crusade to rip apart the christian fabric of our country. Either this is a joke or a "supertard" class post. And of course, ID is still entirely separate from religion.  ;) -------------- Fundamentalism in a nutshell: "There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,13:37    Quote (Wonderpants @ Mar. 02 2007,13:52) Quote Even more magical thinking: Liberal Dawinists claim that their “Theory” (wink wink) actually is capable of making predictions! The only predictions it seems capable of making is that the biology departments at american universities will continue to dillegently work toward the destruction of our Christian America and keep us all crying and moaning over our poor treatment of rapists, murderers, child molesters and filthy arab terrorists. The only thing that Evolution allows a scientist to do is to join the crusade to rip apart the christian fabric of our country. Either this is a joke or a "supertard" class post. And of course, ID is still entirely separate from religion.  ;) link?

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,14:11    Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 02 2007,06:24) Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 02 2007,00:04) here are the articles: http://wpherald.com/article....gm.html Haeckel’s embryos, Miller-Urey...*yawn* Try as you may, you can't shine shit. http://www.indiana9fossils.com/Coprolite/Large_Dinosaur.htm Quote This specimen has been cut and polished to bring out the beauty! well, you CAN polish it, but you have to wait a while, I guess.. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,14:14    Quote Have you ever noticed with IDers that in one sentence they will declaim the staggering growth of ID's megasuperhyperpopularity (particularly in Denmark and now apparently Turkey), then in the next sentence whine that they are subject to hostility, censorship, and oppression so overwhelming that they can't even propose any actual theory or potential supporting research*? playing the victim has always been popular. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Wonderpants Posts: 115 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,14:51    Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 02 2007,13:37) Quote (Wonderpants @ Mar. 02 2007,13:52) Quote Even more magical thinking: Liberal Dawinists claim that their “Theory” (wink wink) actually is capable of making predictions! The only predictions it seems capable of making is that the biology departments at american universities will continue to dillegently work toward the destruction of our Christian America and keep us all crying and moaning over our poor treatment of rapists, murderers, child molesters and filthy arab terrorists. The only thing that Evolution allows a scientist to do is to join the crusade to rip apart the christian fabric of our country. Either this is a joke or a "supertard" class post. And of course, ID is still entirely separate from religion.  ;) link? http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....t-95234 -------------- Fundamentalism in a nutshell: "There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,15:14    Every once in a while, I think: " Ah, what the he11, these guys are doomed to obscurity anyway, due to their lack of valid and demonstrably science-oriented ideas," then some ass like Dembski calls the FBI on Eric Pianka, or depicts a guy like Kevin Padian as a Ku Klux Klan member--or some fucknut says shit like Quote " The only predictions it seems capable of making is that the biology departments at american universities will continue to dillegently work toward the destruction of our Christian America and keep us all crying and moaning over our poor treatment of rapists, murderers, child molesters and filthy arab terrorists." about Darwin, who was the most mild of men, and his theory. Then I recall why I despise these liars like DaveTard and Dembski. The mere fact that Dembski allows a scumbag Muslim-hating idiot like Dave Scot Springer to control the content of his board...well, that's sufficient to show their aims. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,15:55    As someone once said: it takes all kinds of people to make the world go round. This is occasionally a shocking realization. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,15:57    Quote (BWE @ Mar. 02 2007,15:55) As someone once said: it takes all kinds of people to make the world go round. This is occasionally a shocking realization. uh, could we maybe try a few experiments to see if that's really true? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,16:09    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 02 2007,15:57) Quote (BWE @ Mar. 02 2007,15:55) As someone once said: it takes all kinds of people to make the world go round. This is occasionally a shocking realization. uh, could we maybe try a few experiments to see if that's really true? Icthy, It's been done. The sad answer remains. Working in a beaurocracy has done more to destroy my hope for survival of the species (ours) than any wingnut who identifies with bizzare idiologies. Apathy of folks who have what they need is far more dangerous in my book. The fact that that post is indistinguishable between the real deal or parody is telling of something. What, I dunno, but something. Does it make sense to project populations by weight if the average animal will be smaller than it's parents? Ha! k.e. take that! -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Wonderpants Posts: 115 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,16:24    Quote (deadman_932 @ Mar. 02 2007,15:14) Every once in a while, I think: " Ah, what the he11, these guys are doomed to obscurity anyway, due to their lack of valid and demonstrably science-oriented ideas," then some ass like Dembski calls the FBI on Eric Pianka, or depicts a guy like Kevin Padian as a Ku Klux Klan member--or some fucknut says shit like   Quote " The only predictions it seems capable of making is that the biology departments at american universities will continue to dillegently work toward the destruction of our Christian America and keep us all crying and moaning over our poor treatment of rapists, murderers, child molesters and filthy arab terrorists." about Darwin, who was the most mild of men, and his theory. Then I recall why I despise these liars like DaveTard and Dembski. The mere fact that Dembski allows a scumbag Muslim-hating idiot like Dave Scot Springer to control the content of his board...well, that's sufficient to show their aims. I've certainly learnt to despise fundamentalist religion. There's an article in the Guardian today about televangelism in the States and how it's taking off here in the UK, along with other unattractive elements like megachurches. Pat Robertson and his ilk remind me of nothing so much as the moneylenders that Jesus drove out of the Temple. -------------- Fundamentalism in a nutshell: "There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,16:52    http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2024907,00.html -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,17:03    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 02 2007,16:52) http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2024907,00.html Fair's fair, you Brits sent all your obnoxious religious fanatics over here to colonize North America, you should have expected that eventually there'd be some blowback.   -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2007,17:25    Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 02 2007,07:00) Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 01 2007,20:31)   Quote Turkey's First ID Conference GilDodg'em ... about a dozen local mayors sent telegraphs of congratulations... Next:  ID Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Turkmenistan. Here is an interesting quote from Gil:   Quote Apparently the atmosphere concerning ID in Turkey is not nearly as hostile as it is here in the U.S. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't an honest to goodness Muslim show up over at UD a short time ago and promptly get chased out with pitchforks and torches? Wasn't there also a study done not too long ago about kids and their scientific literacy?  And, didn't the US get the second worse score only ahead of Turkey?

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