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The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,03:39    Quote Now the sun orbits the earth, and the Apollo landings were faked? The fact the Apollo missions were faked is obvious. Remember the waving American flag in the photograph. If evolutionists are correct in saying there is no air on the moon, how does a flag wave? Which is it--is there air on the moon and the evolutuionists movement has been exposed so utterly they will never be able to get their pants on again, or is the Apollo mission a fake? As far as the Sun going around the earth, Scripture makes this crystal clear. (Note that Joshua made the Sun stand still, this is because the Sun is going around the earth.) -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

C.J.O'Brien Posts: 395 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,07:58    Are you running for king of the cranks or something? Really, ghastly, this is over the top, even for you. I was going to disabuse you of your reverence for "The Master," but, like Mr. Fox, I am afraid that your credibility has been utterly exposed as non-existent. If you are (as I believe) joking, well, it's gone about as far as it can at geocentrism. Good fun, but all things come to an end. Even ghosts. -------------- The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand. --Joe G

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,10:34    Quote Are you running for king of the cranks or something? Really, ghastly, this is over the top, even for you. I was going to disabuse you of your reverence for "The Master," but, like Mr. Fox, I am afraid that your credibility has been utterly exposed as non-existent. If you are (as I believe) joking, well, it's gone about as far as it can at geocentrism. Good fun, but all things come to an end. Even ghosts.  Oh, don't let my beliefs keep you from your duty. I'm willing to listen to any/all criticisms of the Master's position. Remember to address his real arguments, and not what Eugenie Scott may have told you they were. If you can, that is. I promise my response will be point on (I hope this doesn't scare you away again). And by the way, if you're reading this Nicky, just one question: Have you found your expert yet? -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

C.J.O'Brien Posts: 395 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2005,12:25    I don't recall being "scared away." Not everybody has the luxury of being undead, and having 22.5 hours a day to troll the internet. Besides, I'm not scared of geocentrist ghosts. -------------- The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand. --Joe G

Steverino Posts: 411 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,06:50    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 20 2005,08:39) Quote Now the sun orbits the earth, and the Apollo landings were faked? The fact the Apollo missions were faked is obvious. Remember the waving American flag in the photograph. If evolutionists are correct in saying there is no air on the moon, how does a flag wave? Which is it--is there air on the moon and the evolutuionists movement has been exposed so utterly they will never be able to get their pants on again, or is the Apollo mission a fake? As far as the Sun going around the earth, Scripture makes this crystal clear. (Note that Joshua made the Sun stand still, this is because the Sun is going around the earth.) Are you really that dilluted? Not every waving flag needs a breeze -- at least not in space. When astronauts were planting the flagpole they rotated it back and forth to better penetrate the lunar soil (anyone who's set a blunt tent-post will know how this works). So of course the flag waved! Unfurling a piece of rolled-up cloth with stored angular momentum will naturally result in waves and ripples -- no breeze required! Next time you have lunch with Elvis, tell him I said hello. -------------- - Born right the first time. - Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers. - It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,07:28    Quote Are you really that dilluted? No rino, I'm 100% Jesus-loving, Bible-believing Christian man! I have not been "diluted" with the moral poison of evolutionism as you have! Quote Not every waving flag needs a breeze -- at least not in space. When astronauts were planting the flagpole they rotated it back and forth to better penetrate the lunar soil (anyone who's set a blunt tent-post will know how this works). So of course the flag waved! Unfurling a piece of rolled-up cloth with stored angular momentum will naturally result in waves and ripples -- no breeze required! Speaking of which, were you aware evolutionists assumed there would be 125 feet of moon dust on the moon based on the assumption that such dust had been accumulating for however many billion years they assume its age is. In actuality, there is only three inches. However, every item allegedly taken on the alleged Apollo mission was equipped with a flat base like a sled so it would not sink in this dust. The flagpole did not have to be jammed anywhere, it merely had to be set down. Your story is all bull$^^%, or, excuse me, rhino&%&^. Unlike you, I know how to spell "rhino" nad use words like "diluted." -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Steverino Posts: 411 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,09:54    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 21 2005,12:28) Quote Are you really that dilluted? No rino, I'm 100% Jesus-loving, Bible-believing Christian man! I have not been "diluted" with the moral poison of evolutionism as you have! Quote Not every waving flag needs a breeze -- at least not in space. When astronauts were planting the flagpole they rotated it back and forth to better penetrate the lunar soil (anyone who's set a blunt tent-post will know how this works). So of course the flag waved! Unfurling a piece of rolled-up cloth with stored angular momentum will naturally result in waves and ripples -- no breeze required! Speaking of which, were you aware evolutionists assumed there would be 125 feet of moon dust on the moon based on the assumption that such dust had been accumulating for however many billion years they assume its age is. In actuality, there is only three inches. However, every item allegedly taken on the alleged Apollo mission was equipped with a flat base like a sled so it would not sink in this dust. The flagpole did not have to be jammed anywhere, it merely had to be set down. Your story is all bull$^^%, or, excuse me, rhino&%&^. Unlike you, I know how to spell "rhino" nad use words like "diluted." The fact that you think the moon landings were faked shows the depth of how much you really don't know or understand. The entire "Moon Landing Hoax" has been debunked by many noted scientists and agencies. Tell me; are you a Kent Hovind follower? -------------- - Born right the first time. - Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers. - It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,10:13    Quote The entire "Moon Landing Hoax" has been debunked by many noted scientists and agencies.  Yeah, that's a common theme around here. Was this debunking any better than the attempt to "debunk" Berlinski? Quote Tell me; are you a Kent Hovind follower?  Oh no, I ain't going for that again. O'Cryin', Foxy, and the brief stalker are already using my geocentrism as an excuse to run away from my arguments. You'll have to figure it out yourself. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Steverino Posts: 411 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,14:56    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 21 2005,15:13) Quote The entire "Moon Landing Hoax" has been debunked by many noted scientists and agencies.  Yeah, that's a common theme around here. Was this debunking any better than the attempt to "debunk" Berlinski? Quote Tell me; are you a Kent Hovind follower?  Oh no, I ain't going for that again. O'Cryin', Foxy, and the brief stalker are already using my geocentrism as an excuse to run away from my arguments. You'll have to figure it out yourself. Well, now we all know you are flat out incorrect regarding Moon Landing being faked.  It's been documented by numerous sources.  So, you got that one wrong. What Berlinski fairytale are you speaking of? -------------- - Born right the first time. - Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers. - It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2005,15:54    What on Earth (so to speak) does the amount of dust on the moon have to do with evolution of life on Earth? And why on Earth would opinions about that have anything to do with one's opinion about evolution? Henry

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2005,09:00    Quote What on Earth (so to speak) does the amount of dust on the moon have to do with evolution of life on Earth? And why on Earth would opinions about that have anything to do with one's opinion about evolution?  Nothing much, directly. But if the earth proves as young as I suspect, this would deal a crippling blow to evolution. Plus, some are using my geocentrism as an excuse to evade my arguments (after asking me my personal beliefs!). Hopefully people aren't being taken in by this tactic. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

cogzoid Posts: 234 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2005,09:16    Here you go Paley. Clearly you can believe whatever you want to believe.  As long as you are willing to disregard any facts that disagree with you. I thought this was a funny quote from the website: Quote Indeed, says McKay, faking a Moon rock well enough to hoodwink an international army of scientists might be more difficult than the Manhattan Project. "It would be easier to just go to the Moon and get one," he quipped.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 23 2005,09:55    Quote Clearly you can believe whatever you want to believe.  As long as you are willing to disregard any facts that disagree with you.  Well, on that subject, here are some more sites that fill out the picture: Pro Hoax More Pro Hoax Anti Hoax Forum  Two problems with antihoax sites:  1)The Problem of Consilience of Inductions    In deciding between two hypotheses, one should usually choose the one that unifies more observations and relies less on post hoc rationales to explain phenomena. In other words, the hypothesis should do most of the explanatory work, and incorporate as little into its predictive bundle as possible. This is not met with the antihoax community, as their rationalizations range from short camera exposures, unique lunar soil characteristics, the vacuum, pranking astro-naughts, miscommunication, and hairs on lenses to account for anomalities. The prohoax community can unify all "problems" under one rubric: a manufactured moonwalk.  2) Changing, mutually-contradictory explanations. For example, the author claims that the reason that no flame was seen from the departing lander was due to the lack of air in the lunar environment. Then he says, whoops, that's a minor effect. It's really the fuel. In each case, he shows supreme confidence in his answer. But since he rarely quantifies anything (e.g. how much torque would one need to create the flag ripples we see?), one can only shrug one's shoulders and comment that his whole treatise is written in jello.  There is are cathedrals of doubt hidden behind Phil Plait's quaint, complacent Potemkin Village. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 23 2005,09:58    Sorry. "There are cathedrals of doubt....." -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

sir_toejam Posts: 846 Joined: April 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 23 2005,11:08    GP- I have only one, simple question: Do you want to believe there were no moon landings?

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 23 2005,11:38    Quote Do you want to believe there were no moon landings?  And here we have it. Post-modernism at its worst: I feel, therefore it is........well, if it gets you an academic post in lieu of someone qualified, good luck with that. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

sir_toejam Posts: 846 Joined: April 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 23 2005,15:51    but.... you didn't answer the question, either, regardless of you dismissing the importance of it to the actual substantive position one would take wrt the data surrounding the moon landings. I hate to sound patronizing (meh, no I don't..), but do you understand why i asked?

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 24 2005,14:26    Quote I have only one, simple question: Do you want to believe there were no moon landings?  Sure. But what does that have to do with anything? Quote but.... you didn't answer the question, either, regardless of you dismissing the importance of it to the actual substantive position one would take wrt the data surrounding the moon landings. I hate to sound patronizing (meh, no I don't..), but do you understand why i asked?  I assumed it was a rhetorical question, but I guess you're still probing me. For what it's worth, I assure you I am not a member of the Panda's Bum. As for whether I'm sincere, the only way I could "regain" credibility in this area is by losing it. Think about it. Now answer this: Ever dunk a witch?  Wow, so many questions! Does this mean you'll give me a second chance? -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

sir_toejam Posts: 846 Joined: April 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 24 2005,14:38    nope, just further defining your position. as i thought, if you "want" to believe that the moon landings never happened, and you want us to believe that you are being honest about that, then how can you claim to be objective about the data presented? don't bother to answer, the answer is obvious. You are just pulling our chains. fun, isn't it? for the record, i never implied you to be a "member of Pandas Bum" as er, PT doesn't have members. If i believed you to be sincere about any of your positions, it would be worthwhile involving myself in debate, but i don't. my only point in all this is to bring that point home for those who actually considered that you WERE serious about anything you wished to debate here. you're just another troll. so long as folks realize that, i encourage all to have fun debating you.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 24 2005,15:52    Quote If i believed you to be sincere about any of your positions, it would be worthwhile involving myself in debate, but i don't.  Oh please, it's obvious to anyone with a room temperature I.Q. that you're as yellow as they come. Heck, if you ever made any sense, I'd praise you for being Nicky's best prawn puppet. I'm sorry if the evo's brightest were pranked by a mediocre paper; I really am. But don't blame Berlinski for rubbing your collective noses in it - that's what you get for #####ing on the rug. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

Steverino Posts: 411 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,06:15    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 24 2005,20:52) Quote If i believed you to be sincere about any of your positions, it would be worthwhile involving myself in debate, but i don't.  Oh please, it's obvious to anyone with a room temperature I.Q. that you're as yellow as they come. Heck, if you ever made any sense, I'd praise you for being Nicky's best prawn puppet. I'm sorry if the evo's brightest were pranked by a mediocre paper; I really am. But don't blame Berlinski for rubbing your collective noses in it - that's what you get for #####ing on the rug. I asked the question originally because it addresses the issue of what information your selectively choose to ignore you justify your beliefs. You have stated, I believe, that one of the reasons evolution was a myth was because there were no witnesses to Big Bang, or Evolution... that it was not to be believed. Well, using the same logic, your belief with regard to the moon landings has been invalidated.  There were witnesses to the moon landings, the astronauts themselves. But, contrary to documented, verified evidence and eye witness validation, you still choose to believe that moon landings didn't take place. -------------- - Born right the first time. - Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers. - It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

MidnightVoice Posts: 380 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,07:46    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 24 2005,20:52) Oh please, it's obvious to anyone with a room temperature I.Q. K, F or C? -------------- If I fly the coop some time And take nothing but a grip With the few good books that really count It's a necessary trip I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,08:03    Re "K, F or C?" Kentucky Fried Chicken?

MidnightVoice Posts: 380 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,08:49    Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 25 2005,13:03) Re "K, F or C?" Kentucky Fried Chicken?   Nah, just a little test of scientific lieracy at the Elementary School level.   -------------- If I fly the coop some time And take nothing but a grip With the few good books that really count It's a necessary trip I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,09:07    Quote Re "K, F or C?" Kentucky Fried Chicken?     Nah, just a little test of scientific lieracy at the Elementary School level.  I guess it's not enough to watch me topple Sir Wiggle's mental house of cards - you have to play Socratic master as well, eh.  Answer: F, but I suspect the average I.Q. level is more C-oriented. What prize did I win? -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,09:14    By the way, while you guys are wallowing in your C-level IQ's, try to appreciate your correspondence with a member of the K community (the Master, the Master^2, and I'll let you take a stab at the third member). -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,09:23    Quote Answer: F, but I suspect the average I.Q. level is more C-oriented. What prize did I win?  Obviously, this should read: Answer: F, but I suspect the average I.Q. level here is more C-oriented. What prize did I win?  As if I don't italicize enough already. -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

MidnightVoice Posts: 380 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 25 2005,10:05    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 25 2005,14:23) Quote Answer: F, but I suspect the average I.Q. level is more C-oriented. What prize did I win?  Obviously, this should read: Answer: F, but I suspect the average I.Q. level here is more C-oriented. What prize did I win?  As if I don't italicize enough already. You seem to be getting your Cs and Ks confused.  Evolutionists are obviously Ks, whereas ID proponents and their ilk are presumably Cs, as they don’t have the capacity to understand reality or science   -------------- If I fly the coop some time And take nothing but a grip With the few good books that really count It's a necessary trip I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

The Ghost of Paley Posts: 1703 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2005,11:01    Since there seems to be so much speculation about my motives and identity, I thought I'd compile the reigning theories just for fun. I might have added one to fill the speculative sample space:                          Paley the Insider  A popular early hypothesis. Paley is a regular contributer who's decided to tease the other fellas. Possible culprit: Dave Cerutti.  Evidence for:   Cerutti's stated desire to assume another identity after his last visit (as Admonicus). Paley appears soon afterward. Also, Paley seems to possess some familiarity with past activity from other regulars. The continued ribbing of Nick Matzke.  Evidence against:   The time frame. Why wait a month between posts? Paley's interests mesh poorly with Dave's.                   The Documentary Hypothesis:Multiple Paleys   This idea has been floated occasionally. Basically, Paley is a composite of several individuals.    Evidence for:   The syntax, grammar, and vocabulary shift from post to post. In fact, scholars from Panda's Thumb have postulated several distinct layers in Paley's manuscripts:   P, or Protopaley, whose posts reflect the primitive, philosophically dense trollings frequently encountered on the Talk Origins forum. P-Paley often relies on quick, brutal attacks on his enemies, leavened with the occasional swipe at other posters' political tendencies. Advocates bold scientific positions. As the name implies, the earliest model.   L-Paley. The trickster. Gentler than P-Paley, he still enjoys a good scrap, but relies on wit and dependent clauses to defang his adversary. Loves Phylogeny and Hoaxing, and has refined his trolling to fit the board's needs.   B-Paley, to denote his desire to play nice and abide by the rules. Relatively courteous; is thought to be a bridge to useful partisanship of evo doctrine.    Evidence against:   At minimum, the conspirators must know each other, as Paley always uses the same email address and password when logging on. Posts often reflect similar ideas and imagery, as well as a dazzlingly intellect rarely encountered in life, much less Panda's Bum. These argue for a single author.                Genuine Paley   Evidence for:  His protestations. In other words, none.  Evidence against:   See above. Also, it's convenient, which counts for more than it should.       Comments? -------------- Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

MidnightVoice Posts: 380 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 26 2005,11:41    Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Oct. 26 2005,16:01) Comments? None -------------- If I fly the coop some time And take nothing but a grip With the few good books that really count It's a necessary trip I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

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